Octopus Overlords

Holman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:00 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:38 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:33 pm As the Strok hearing showed yesterday - it isn't about actually *doing* anything. It is appearance of doing so that matters.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:31 pm Also...there would need to be a Senate trial, right? Wouldn't that trial but a huge PR bonanza for the Democrats?

Yeah but Freedom Caucus guys are extremists. They don't give a shit about the big picture.

I get that, but seems like the kind of thing that Ryan would squash. An impeachment trial of Rosenstein where he talks at length about the Russia investigation and what is known (even just what is publicly known) in the run-up to the mid-terms is like a wet dream for democratic leadership.

Exactly. Pretty much the only thing Ryan does well is prevent the Freedom Caucus from throwing napalm on the GOP garbage fire.

I could see Meadows introducing it, there's some blather to use on Hannity, and then Ryan quietly buries it without a vote. Except for periodic references in stories that an impeachment motion has been introduced against Rosenstein.

Will it be this weekend or early next week that the usual suspects start suggesting that sure, maybe Trump and members of the GOP betrayed America, but they did it to try and save us from Hillary!

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 3:35 pm Uh oh, Rip is in some deep trouble:

Spoiler:

This excerpt is a joke, and not actually part of the indictment.

Not really. I'm not Russian, so not only is it not a crime for me, it is patriotic.

Captain Caveman wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:26 pm Sure sounds like Roger Stone.

This morning, Stone confirmed it.

I'm sure this whole thing is just a 24-word misunderstanding on Twitter.

Rip, care to pick a side here on if Russia's interference exists, OR if it's a witch hunt?

I was reading an article on White House scandals and this was in the article. Now I’m not trying to sound smug but maybe GOP supporters should take a long hard look at their party once all the Drumpf era indictments and convictions are added to this list.

While I agree with many GOP policies, their organization is incredibly amoral.



Source: Comparing presidential administrations by arrests and convictions: A warning for Drumpf appointees

Rip wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:16 pm I'm not Russian

As a "NON Russian" (weird how non of us need to say that) …

So, what is your take on the indictments and Trump still meeting alone with Putin? Alone. Seem a little weird to you - or the kind of thin you woul have liked to see Obama and Clinton do?

Scoop20906 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:30 pm I was reading an article on White House scandals and this was in the article. Now I’m not trying to sound smug but maybe GOP supporters should take a long hard look at their party once all the Drumpf era indictments and convictions are added to this list.

While I agree with many GOP policies, their organization is incredibly amoral.



Source: Comparing presidential administrations by arrests and convictions: A warning for Drumpf appointees

Republicans are evil and Democrats are incompetent. News at 11!

Unagi wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:57 pm Rip, care to pick a side here on if Russia's interference exists, OR if it's a witch hunt?

Of course it exists. Russia has been interfering in our business as long as I have been alive.

Unagi wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 11:36 pm

Rip wrote: ↑Fri Jul 13, 2018 7:16 pm I'm not Russian

As a "NON Russian" (weird how non of us need to say that) …

So, what is your take on the indictments and Trump still meeting alone with Putin? Alone. Seem a little weird to you - or the kind of thin you woul have liked to see Obama and Clinton do?

Doesn't matter to me. Action against Russia needs to come from Congress and Europe. If they do nothing Trump is irrelevant.

Rip wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:23 am Action against Russia needs to come from Congress ...

Absolutetly. They're playing dead in this whole affair is the real problem. Any yet you stand against "the blue wave" which has been trying to take action but are seen as obstuctionist by the Congress you seem to support.

Rip wrote:Doesn't matter to me. Action against Russia needs to come from Congress and Europe. If they do nothing Trump is irrelevant.

You are such a hypocrite, Rip.

Do we even need to search for all the times you blamed Obama and Clinton for foreign policy inaction?

Trump and the Republican Congress have both accepted inaction or coverup on Russia. When Congress acted, Trump ignored the law.

Foreign interference in America cannot be tolerated. Accepting it is not Patriotic, Making America Great or Putting America First.

Come on, guys. This is the closest you’re going to get to Rip admitting he voted for a useless tool. Read between the lines. He secretly regrets not voting for Hillary.

Rip wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:19 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:57 pm Rip, care to pick a side here on if Russia's interference exists, OR if it's a witch hunt?

Of course it exists. Russia has been interfering in our business as long as I have been alive.

I’m mostly ambivalent towards Russia, tbh. I don’t dislike them over this any more or less than I already did. This is who they are and what they do, and it won’t ever stop.

The part that angers me every day is that the US - both politicians and population - used to actively fight against such activity because we recognized how harmful it could be to our system of governance. It used to be important to us that we didn’t let their efforts succeed. Now? Not so much...because MAGA, or some shit.

The fact that so many of our representatives and Red Hats have decided to either ignore it or actively cheer it on simply because the activity helped their guy win is a sad statement on the state of our country.

Rip wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:19 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Sat Jul 14, 2018 9:57 pm Rip, care to pick a side here on if Russia's interference exists, OR if it's a witch hunt?

Of course it exists. Russia has been interfering in our business as long as I have been alive.

Lol

Zarathud wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:21 am
Foreign interference in America cannot be tolerated. Accepting it is not Patriotic, Making America Great or Putting America First.

Here's Rand Paul market-testing the new GOP line: of course Russia interfered; hey, we all do! But it was all Hillary's fault for interfering* in Russia's election first.

Really. They're going with that.

(*BTW, Hillary's "interference" in Russian elections consisted of calling for opposition parties to be given a chance to run fairly.)

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:53 am

Zarathud wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:21 am
Foreign interference in America cannot be tolerated. Accepting it is not Patriotic, Making America Great or Putting America First.

Here's Rand Paul market-testing the new GOP line: of course Russia interfered; hey, we all do! But it was all Hillary's fault for interfering* in Russia's election first.

Really. They're going with that.

(*BTW, Hillary's "interference" in Russian elections consisted of calling for opposition parties to be given a chance to run fairly.)

I'd say unbelievable but nothing shocks me anymore with these craven pieces of shit.

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:53 am

Zarathud wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:21 am
Foreign interference in America cannot be tolerated. Accepting it is not Patriotic, Making America Great or Putting America First.

Here's Rand Paul market-testing the new GOP line: of course Russia interfered; hey, we all do! But it was all Hillary's fault for interfering* in Russia's election first.

Really. They're going with that.

(*BTW, Hillary's "interference" in Russian elections consisted of calling for opposition parties to be given a chance to run fairly.)

It’s making the rounds already. I heard the same thing on the radio this am, almost word for word. The conservative tribalism never fails to astound.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:54 am

Rip wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 4:23 am Action against Russia needs to come from Congress ...

Absolutetly. They're playing dead in this whole affair is the real problem. Any yet you stand against "the blue wave" which has been trying to take action but are seen as obstuctionist by the Congress you seem to support.

They aren't going to take any action that matters and besides any action against Russia that would work will require the EU each and every one to be fully committed. They are far from. They are quick to talk a big game but the actions are a joke.

Zarathud wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:21 am

Rip wrote:Doesn't matter to me. Action against Russia needs to come from Congress and Europe. If they do nothing Trump is irrelevant.

You are such a hypocrite, Rip.

Do we even need to search for all the times you blamed Obama and Clinton for foreign policy inaction?

Trump and the Republican Congress have both accepted inaction or coverup on Russia. When Congress acted, Trump ignored the law.

Foreign interference in America cannot be tolerated. Accepting it is not Patriotic, Making America Great or Putting America First.

They have all failed to act against Russia. Talking smack doesn't count because Putin doesn't care about that crap.

Paul's not completely wrong. We've done our own share of election meddling esp. in SE Asia and Latin America. But that doesn't justify it or make it OK.

Is it ok to say Trump is Putin's fuck boy?

Daehawk wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:10 pm Is it ok to say Trump is Putin's fuck boy?

I think you're giving Trump too high of a station.

Fitzy wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:25 pm

Daehawk wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:10 pm Is it ok to say Trump is Putin's fuck boy?

I think you're giving Trump too high of a station.

Probably right. My bad.

There's no shame in fucking. Call him what he is: Putin's traitor stooge.

tgb wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:00 pm Paul's not completely wrong. We've done our own share of election meddling esp. in SE Asia and Latin America. But that doesn't justify it or make it OK.

Don't forget Afghanistan.

Whataboutism Level: Inconceivable.

tgb wrote:Paul's not completely wrong. We've done our own share of election meddling esp. in SE Asia and Latin America. But that doesn't justify it or make it OK.

Save for the fact that it dropped about 90% after the end of the Cold War.

Nothing unusual today - just a US Senator out loud saying he thinks the President is compromised.

Edit:To be fair - Merkley is more on the left than others but still that is a startling admission.

EditEdit: Part of me is pretty cynical and thinks he also might be stirring the water ahead of a run but he still threw out a bomb.

I might like to see Merkley run. What I've seen I've liked but I don't know enough yet. But I'm not sure how much he should get involved in mud slinging to make that run. Stick to the what you know, not insinuation. Leave insinuation and speculation to us.

A guy like Merkley is largely an unknown so he needs to get his name out there somehow. Americans have the attention span of a gnat and our media is an outrage engine so this might be his move. More concisely - hate the game, don't hate the player.

Note: I actually don't agree with the above and think that is how we got Trump. It is reality however.

malchior wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:04 am Nothing unusual today - just a US Senator out loud saying he thinks the President is compromised.

Edit:To be fair - Merkley is more on the left than others but still that is a startling admission.

EditEdit: Part of me is pretty cynical and thinks he also might be stirring the water ahead of a run but he still threw out a bomb.

Is the pee tape still leverage though? I mean Trump has no shame, lies on a daily basis, and has he intellect of a toddler. He's the US president and can apparently do no wrong. There has to be something more. My money is on money.

Rip wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:15 pm

tgb wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:00 pm Paul's not completely wrong. We've done our own share of election meddling esp. in SE Asia and Latin America. But that doesn't justify it or make it OK.

Don't forget Afghanistan.

Oh, you mean the country which was actually aiding and abetting Terrorist attacks on US Soil for decades, and which was probably the only justified war we've been in for 70 years? That Afghanistan?

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:09 pm

Rip wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:15 pm

tgb wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:00 pm Paul's not completely wrong. We've done our own share of election meddling esp. in SE Asia and Latin America. But that doesn't justify it or make it OK.

Don't forget Afghanistan.

Oh, you mean the country which was actually aiding and abetting Terrorist attacks on US Soil for decades, and which was probably the only justified war we've been in for 70 years? That Afghanistan?

What does that have to do with interfering in elections? At the end of the day we went in there and did some good work. That doesn't then make it ok to manipulate the "fair" elections we pushed for.

Rip wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:28 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:09 pm

Rip wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:15 pm

tgb wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:00 pm Paul's not completely wrong. We've done our own share of election meddling esp. in SE Asia and Latin America. But that doesn't justify it or make it OK.

Don't forget Afghanistan.

Oh, you mean the country which was actually aiding and abetting Terrorist attacks on US Soil for decades, and which was probably the only justified war we've been in for 70 years? That Afghanistan?

What does that have to do with interfering in elections? At the end of the day we went in there and did some good work. That doesn't then make it ok to manipulate the "fair" elections we pushed for.

do you have a link? I may have missed something...

Rip wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 12:26 pm

Zarathud wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:21 am

Rip wrote:Doesn't matter to me. Action against Russia needs to come from Congress and Europe. If they do nothing Trump is irrelevant.

You are such a hypocrite, Rip.

Do we even need to search for all the times you blamed Obama and Clinton for foreign policy inaction?

Trump and the Republican Congress have both accepted inaction or coverup on Russia. When Congress acted, Trump ignored the law.

Foreign interference in America cannot be tolerated. Accepting it is not Patriotic, Making America Great or Putting America First.

They have all failed to act against Russia. Talking smack doesn't count because Putin doesn't care about that crap.

Everything you write these days is going to come back and bite you in the ass someday soon.

Keep it coming!

Rip wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:28 pm What does that have to do with interfering in elections? At the end of the day we went in there and did some good work. That doesn't then make it ok to manipulate the "fair" elections we pushed for.

Careful comrade, your borscht is showing.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:08 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:04 am Nothing unusual today - just a US Senator out loud saying he thinks the President is compromised.

Edit:To be fair - Merkley is more on the left than others but still that is a startling admission.

EditEdit: Part of me is pretty cynical and thinks he also might be stirring the water ahead of a run but he still threw out a bomb.

Is the pee tape still leverage though? I mean Trump has no shame, lies on a daily basis, and has he intellect of a toddler. He's the US president and can apparently do no wrong. There has to be something more. My money is on money.

As Merkley says, there's a lot of reason to believe that the Russians have *some* serious leverage / compromising info on Trump. Partly that's because of how Trump behaves with regards to Russia and Russian interests, and part of that is Trump's history with Russia. In particular, it's public knowledge that Trump relied heavily on Russian financing for the past couple decades after he became untouchable to U.S. banks due to his repeated bankruptcies. What are the odds that laws were fastidiously followed in all of those transactions? If they weren't, Russia would likely have documents and records to show that.

I'm unclear when Merkley says "something like that" regarding the pee tape, whether he's saying "something of that severity" or specifically "something sexual in nature". As to whether the pee tape would really be leverage....you wouldn't think so, but at the same time Trump now has a documented history of paying off mistresses to stay silent. So there's material evidence that Trump *does* care about this sort of thing, even if we think that it's something that he shouldn't care about.

Also, while the pee tape is still unlikely, there's more evidence supporting its existence that you might think.

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:50 pm

Rip wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:28 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:09 pm

Rip wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:15 pm

tgb wrote: ↑Sun Jul 15, 2018 1:00 pm Paul's not completely wrong. We've done our own share of election meddling esp. in SE Asia and Latin America. But that doesn't justify it or make it OK.

Don't forget Afghanistan.

Oh, you mean the country which was actually aiding and abetting Terrorist attacks on US Soil for decades, and which was probably the only justified war we've been in for 70 years? That Afghanistan?

What does that have to do with interfering in elections? At the end of the day we went in there and did some good work. That doesn't then make it ok to manipulate the "fair" elections we pushed for.

do you have a link? I may have missed something...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/ ... bert-gates

Top US diplomats connived in delaying an Afghan presidential election in 2009 and then tried to manipulate the outcome in a "clumsy and failed putsch" that aimed to oust Hamid Karzai, the US defence secretary at the time, Robert Gates, has said.

In a memoir to be published next week, less than three months before Afghanistan's next critical presidential poll, Gates says the 2009 election was "ugly" and that, though the president was "tainted", "our hands were dirty as well".

The revelation was greeted with triumph in the presidential palace in Kabul, where Karzai and his confidantes have long accused the US of trying to push him out of office. Washington has always insisted it was an impartial supporter of the democratic process.

A lot more details in the book, but it was kind of obvious.

Russian national residing in DC, with connections to Russia/NRA/GOP indicted for acting as a Russian agent without registering.

Significant news on any other day. More on her:



The Russia --> NRA --> GOP connection is another plausible way that the House GOP is caught up in the Russia corruption, and another reason why they may be going to the mat for Trump here.