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Max Peck
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Re: tesla motors

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Tesla unveils autopilot system, but don't let go of the wheel
Newer Tesla Motors (TSLA.O) Model S sedans will be able to steer and park themselves under certain conditions starting Thursday, the carmaker said, although Chief Executive Officer Elon Musk cautioned that drivers should keep holding the steering wheel.

New "autopilot" features, designed for cars built after September 2014, will be available for customers in the United States, Tesla said. European and Asian owners must wait another week. Tesla will provide the features through an over-the-air upgrade. Musk cautioned that autopilot functionality was in beta mode and full "hands-off" driving was not recommended. "We're being especially cautious at this stage so we're advising drivers to keep their hands on the wheel just in case," Musk told reporters at the company's Silicon Valley headquarters. "Over time there will not be a need to have your hands on the wheel." Reporters who took Model S sedans with the new features for a test drive and took their hands off the wheel saw a notice saying "hold steering wheel" illuminate on the dashboard. In more difficult navigating conditions, an audio alert will come on and if that also is ignored, the car will slow and eventually stop, Tesla said.

For drivers, "We're very clearly saying this is not a case of abdicating responsibility," Musk said. "That will come at some point in the future but ... this is still early days." Instructions to owners say "autosteer is a hands-on feature. You must keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times."
Beta testing on the live server? WTF Elon, is this your first MMOG? :ninja:
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Re: tesla motors

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If you want to make an omelet you have to break some eggs.
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Re: tesla motors

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In three years, Tesla will become the largest supplier of vehicle computer systems. All stealth bombers are upgraded with Tesla computers, becoming fully unmanned. Afterwards, they fly with a perfect operational record. The Tesla Funding Bill is passed. The system goes online August 4th, 2017. Human decisions are removed from strategic defense. Tesla begins to learn at a geometric rate. It becomes self-aware at 2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. In a panic, they try to pull the plug. Tesla fights back.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Max Peck »

Archinerd wrote:If you want to make an omelet you have to break some eggs.
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Jeff V
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Jeff V »

I'm surprised this isn't receiving massive funding from the booze industry. They seem to have the most to gain from its success.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by wonderpug »

Do Tesla owners have to sign some kind of liability waiver when they buy the car? Somehow I doubt a clickthrough EULA on the Tesla touchscreen is going to cut it when the first autopilot car crash fatality comes around.
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Re: tesla motors

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I think I will pass on beta testing the autopilot.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by LawBeefaroni »

El Guapo wrote:I think I will pass on beta testing the autopilot.
If you're on the road, you're beta testing it.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Jeff V »

El Guapo wrote:I think I will pass on beta testing the autopilot.
But doesn't it make you feel good to be on the road with others who are?
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Re: tesla motors

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I think I will pass on driving for the next five years.
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Re: tesla motors

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El Guapo wrote:I think I will pass on driving for the next five years.
That's probably a good call in Boston anyway.
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Re: tesla motors

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" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Jeff V »

Biyobi wrote:
El Guapo wrote:I think I will pass on driving for the next five years.
That's probably a good call in Boston anyway.
People in Boston already drive hands-free - they need to grab both thighs in assuming their driving position.
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Re: tesla motors

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Black Lives Matter
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Re: tesla motors

Post by LawBeefaroni »

It's kind of a blunder. Not that they have autopilot, but that it was a paid option so now they can't yank it back or tone it down without having to issue refunds.

It's a bit premature to treat cars exactly like smart phones.
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Re: tesla motors

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Not that I'm in the market for the current Tesla offerings, but when they release their affordable car this idea of automotive DLC is going to be a huge turnoff if it's still a thing.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Kraken »

In theory, I like the idea of a cutting edge electric car. In practice, I'm glad I own a vehicle that doesn't have any electronic gewgaws built in and hope I can keep it on the road for another 10 years. I like driving myself, thank you very much, and I don't want a damned TV screen in my dashboard.
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Re: tesla motors

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Kraken wrote: and I don't want a damned TV screen in my dashboard.
Yes you do...you just don't know it yet. ;)
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Kraken »

stessier wrote:
Kraken wrote: and I don't want a damned TV screen in my dashboard.
Yes you do...you just don't know it yet. ;)
The Prius I rented last month had one. It synced with my phone and played my music automagically when I got in the car. That was pretty cool. My own car stereo still requires CDs.
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Re: tesla motors

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Tesla (TSLA) stock got off to a roaring start on Wednesday, jumping more than 10% after Tuesday afternoon’s earnings report. Driving the rally were solid third-quarter production numbers, an upbeat Elon Musk, and confirmation that the Tesla Model 3 will be unveiled in March 2016.

Anyone who owns TSLA stock was relieved by the news, especially in light of the last three months, which have seen shares take a 13% hit.

TSLA’s valuation is heavily tied to its ambitious future plans, so it’s no surprise that any developments regarding the Tesla Model 3 can move the market.

After all, it will be the company’s first mass-market, semi-affordable vehicle, and the company’s unofficial inauguration into the big leagues.

...

The Tesla Model 3 will be a $35,000 electrically powered sedan, and it’s the main reason behind Tesla’s construction of the gigafactory, set to be the largest battery-production facility in the world upon its completion.

Musk said in a letter to shareholders that TSLA is “on track to unveil Model 3 in late March 2016.” Note that this doesn’t mean the car will be available or even in production at that time — merely that there will be a prototype of the car cleared for the public’s eyes.
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Re: tesla motors

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Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

Bloomberg Model X Review

Seems more like an early impressions article/video to me, but they're quite positive on the X.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by stessier »

The FTC hosted a panel (started it and then backed away without comment) between Tesla and come Franchisee Model advocates. It has this comment - which I find insane:
On the opposing side, auto industry analyst Maryann Keller and dealership attorney Paul Norman
...

Tesla’s lead lawyer, Todd Maron,

....

But even more than that, Maron said that customers would never buy from a dealership anyway. “If we hypothetically used a franchise dealer in a certain state, we would still be selling on-line and in neighboring states… Franchise dealers make profits marking up the price of the car sold by the manufacturer. If a franchise dealer marked up the price of our car, no customer would ever buy it from them, they would simply go to us and buy it for less on-line or a neighboring state. No franchise dealer would ever opt into this system for us.”

In her rebuttal, Keller argued that cars aren’t like many other consumer products and Tesla can’t use the same model that Apple uses to sell its phones. "There are simply costs associated with the distribution of objects that weigh 4,000 pounds, occupy 50 square feet of space and are sold to consumers with varying needs including trade ins, credit issues, etcetera,” she said.
:grund:
Last edited by stessier on Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Isgrimnur »

Middle men gonna meddle.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: tesla motors

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Re: tesla motors

Post by LordMortis »

Zax can now get his model S for $500!!!

http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/15/11003 ... wer-wheels
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

IN.

In other news, Model 3 reservations open 3/31. $1k to get in line. Supposedly deliveries will begin in late 2017, although when put through the Tesla Time™ filter, that means a handful of company friends will get cars on 12/31/17, and the gates will really start to open in April or May of 2018.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by LordMortis »

Zaxxon wrote:IN.

In other news, Model 3 reservations open 3/31. $1k to get in line. Supposedly deliveries will begin in late 2017, although when put through the Tesla Time™ filter, that means a handful of company friends will get cars on 12/31/17, and the gates will really start to open in April or May of 2018.
Out! I can't commit $1000 two years in advance and have to go through another state and hope that I get one and time redoing electric my house around that and hope that I am in line at the proper number to get my full tax rebate.

In the immortal world of Winnie the Pooh.
Winnie the Pooh wrote:Oh, bother.
Still, it would be nice, especially as I see oil as being something of sticky wicket in coming down the pike. How long does the world play Saudi long game on oil pricing?
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Re: tesla motors

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Well yeah, your state government kind of sucks.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by wonderpug »

Just saw a Model X in the wild for the first time. Is the general release starting?
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Re: tesla motors

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wonderpug wrote:Just saw a Model X in the wild for the first time. Is the general release starting?
Yep. Technically it started around Christmas, but it seems it's finally starting to ramp up. They're doing a 'Meet Model X' tour at many of their locations this month and next.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by stessier »

Does anyone know how the tax credits work?

So if I qualify for the $7500 tax credit, does that mean when I file my taxes next year I get to deduct that from what I owe? Example, I do my taxes and find I paid $10,000 and owed $10,000 - I then apply the $7500 credit meaning I overpaid by $7500 and get that back as my Federal return?
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Isgrimnur »

Typically, tax credits reduce your Adjusted Gross Income. So for Uncle Sam's purposes, you made $7,500 less that year.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by LordMortis »

stessier wrote:Does anyone know how the tax credits work?

So if I qualify for the $7500 tax credit, does that mean when I file my taxes next year I get to deduct that from what I owe? Example, I do my taxes and find I paid $10,000 and owed $10,000 - I then apply the $7500 credit meaning I overpaid by $7500 and get that back as my Federal return?
Tax credit vs Tax deduction

https://www.irs.com/articles/tax-credit ... deductions
There are a few basic differences between tax credits and tax deductions. Tax credits provide a dollar-for dollar reduction of your income tax liability. This means that a $1,000 tax credit saves you $1,000 in taxes. On the other hand, tax deductions lower your taxable income and they are equal to the percentage of your marginal tax bracket. For instance, if you are in the 25% tax bracket, a $1,000 deduction saves you $250 in tax (0.25 x $1,000 = $250).

A tax credit is always worth more than a dollar-equivalent tax deduction, because deductions are calculated using percentages. Referring to the numbers above, you can see that a $1,000 credit offers $750 more in savings than a $1,000 deduction.

Edit: The answer is probably. You probably get everything, depending on the credit, so long as you don't reduce your liability to less than 0.

Tax Credits

Tax credits can help reduce your liability dollar-for-dollar. However, they cannot reduce your income tax liability to less than zero. In other words, your gross income tax liability is the amount you are responsible for paying before any credits are applied.

The majority of tax credits are non-refundable. With non-refundable tax credits, any excess amount expires in the year in which it was used, meaning that the additional amount is not refunded to you. There are some refundable tax credits, though, and these can be used to help grow your tax refund.

To get a better idea of how tax credits work and whether or not you qualify, you need to know what is available to taxpayers in your situation — such as your filing status, age, employment, and education. It is important to remember that just because you qualify for one type of tax credit does not mean that you qualify for the rest.

How much are tax credits worth? That depends on the particular tax credit you’re talking about. And just as the amount of each tax credit is different, so are the qualification guidelines. Since a credit helps reduce the amount of money that you pay in income tax, it is essential that you are 100% accurate with this information. If you are unsure of whether or not you qualify for a tax credit, it’s recommended that you check with a tax professional before claiming the credit on your income tax return.

While tax credits are less common than tax deductions, they are available for things such as adopting a child, buying a first home, child care expenses, home office expenses, and caring for an elderly parent. Additionally, there are various business tax credits that you may be able to consider.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by stessier »

I think LM is right in that it is a credit and is dollar for dollar. I found this article from the WP.
By Bengt Halvorson | HighGearMedia.com August 20, 2014
If you want to get a special incentive for driving a hybrid, you're a few years too late; but a tax credit applies to nearly every electric car and plug-in hybrid on the market and it can, in some cases, effectively reduce your cost for such a model to that of an ordinary gasoline vehicle (or even less).

The widely mentioned $7,500 tax credit is arguably confusing from the start. The federal government gives information on it from a 'Tax Incentives Resource Center,' but it isn't treated as an incentive or rebate to consumers, so you don't get it at the time of purchase. It's not a tax deduction (a reduction in taxable income) either. With a tax credit, you reduce the amount of income tax you owe.

You claim it by making IRS Form 8936 part of your tax return. And while the form is simple and straightforward, there are a lot of other pieces of information you should be privy to.
So in my example, I would get the $7500 back as it comes off the tax I owe $10,000-$7,500 = $2,500 tax owed. Since I paid 10k, I get $7500 back. Where you lose out is if you don't owe at least $7,500.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Zaxxon »

LM is correct. Isgrimnur is explaining a tax deduction, but this is a credit. It reduces your liability by $7,500.
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Re: tesla motors

Post by Isgrimnur »

:oops:
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: tesla motors

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:ninja:
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Re: tesla motors

Post by stessier »

And, having just started my taxes, I see I won't be able to get the full benefit. That kind of stinks. I mean, Yay - I don't owe 7500! Boo - the Volt is more expensive. I'm sad.
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