Octopus Overlords

These guys are totally overreacting too. What a bunch of snowflakes! Meanwhile he is prepping to do even more damage to national security.

Rip wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:06 pm

Zarathud wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:23 pm I am glad to know Rip 100% supports cutting off Trump's security clearance the moment he brags about having secret info. That will be about -- minutes after impeachment or the expiration of his term.

I fully support him having exacly NO security clearance the moment he is no longer president. I wouldn't even let him read Confidential stuff.

Well, he already leaked confidential information to Russian delegates shortly after taking office and that didn’t bother you, so I’m guessing as long as he isn’t a liberal you really wouldn’t mind.

hepcat wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 7:18 am

Rip wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 11:06 pm

Zarathud wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 12:23 pm I am glad to know Rip 100% supports cutting off Trump's security clearance the moment he brags about having secret info. That will be about -- minutes after impeachment or the expiration of his term.

I fully support him having exacly NO security clearance the moment he is no longer president. I wouldn't even let him read Confidential stuff.

Well, he already leaked confidential information to Russian delegates shortly after taking office and that didn’t bother you, so I’m guessing as long as he isn’t a liberal you really wouldn’t mind.

What he's not saying is he supports Trump, El Presidente de por Vida. Well, he doesn't really support it. He's against it and judges it harshly, but the precedent was set by Clinton and her democratic Congress so he has to live with it.

hepcat wrote:Well, he already leaked confidential information to Russian delegates shortly after taking office and that didn’t bother you, so I’m guessing as long as he isn’t a liberal you really wouldn’t mind.

Well, that was going to be Part 2. If Trump is actually leaking secrets, then why isn't his security revoked while President?

Zarathud wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 9:12 am

hepcat wrote:Well, he already leaked confidential information to Russian delegates shortly after taking office and that didn’t bother you, so I’m guessing as long as he isn’t a liberal you really wouldn’t mind.

Well, that was going to be Part 2. If Trump is actually leaking secrets, then why isn't his security revoked while President?

Do you honestly think anyone is putting anything secret in front of him in his crayon-written daily 1-page bullet point list?

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Thu Aug 16, 2018 6:26 pm What does his wife look like? Everyone knows that's the real indicator of the worth of a man.

Did you watch the video?

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Aug 17, 2018 5:40 am These guys are totally overreacting too. What a bunch of snowflakes! Meanwhile he is prepping to do even more damage to national security.

Rip's favorite author has joined this protest:



link

https://twitter.com/rebeccaballhaus/sta ... 8651022337

Trump this morning on Manafort: “He worked for me for a very short period of time." In Nov. 2016, three months after he was technically ousted from the campaign, Manafort emailed Kushner recs for administration appointees. Kushner replied: “On it!"

“He worked for me for a very short period of time."

Isn't that his eulogy speech?

I understand that using these security clearances as a political weapon is nasty, even for DC politics, but I don't get why those no longer serving in a role that needs clearance, should have them after they leave office? Seems like they should be removed if not immediately, then within X number of days so they can advise their replacement if necessary.

Individuals maintain clearance because they often have relevant knowledge and experience that can be called upon for assistance on some current matter.

I'm guessing there is a Trump fan on the jury - and he is holding out on 'reasonable doubt' , wherein the rest of the jury finds his 'reasonable' to be a joke.

It's not a good sign when the jury asks the judge for more clarity around the idea of 'reasonable doubt'.

Security clearance means they can be involved in activities that require a security clearance. It doesn't mean they are required to be involved or have unfettered access. "Need to know" still applies.

Contractors get clearances all the time when they don't have a current need. It just makes them eligible for jobs.

As Lawbeef points out, security clearances are independent of the job you hold. A job requires a specific clearance, it doesn't provide it. Individuals hold clearances.

Well this is interesting...

NYT: White House Counsel Has Cooperated Extensively With Mueller’s Obstruction Inquiry.

(And, no, it doesn't mean "cooperated" in the sense of turning over requested documents and agreeing to routine negotiations.)

The White House counsel, Donald F. McGahn II, has cooperated extensively in the special counsel investigation, sharing detailed accounts about the episodes at the heart of the inquiry into whether President Trump obstructed justice, including some that investigators would not have learned of otherwise, according to a dozen current and former White House officials and others briefed on the matter.

In at least three voluntary interviews with investigators that totaled 30 hours over the past nine months, Mr. McGahn described the president’s furor toward the Russia investigation and the ways in which he urged Mr. McGahn to respond to it. He provided the investigators examining whether Mr. Trump obstructed justice a clear view of the president’s most intimate moments with his lawyer.

Among them were Mr. Trump’s comments and actions during the firing of the F.B.I. director, James B. Comey, and Mr. Trump’s obsession with putting a loyalist in charge of the inquiry, including his repeated urging of Attorney General Jeff Sessions to claim oversight of it. Mr. McGahn was also centrally involved in Mr. Trump’s attempts to fire the special counsel, Robert S. Mueller III, which investigators might not have discovered without him.

For a lawyer to share so much with investigators scrutinizing his client is unusual. Lawyers are rarely so open with investigators, not only because they are advocating on behalf of their clients but also because their conversations with clients are potentially shielded by attorney-client privilege, and in the case of presidents, executive privilege.

Mr. McGahn and his lawyer, William A. Burck, could not understand why Mr. Trump was so willing to allow Mr. McGahn to speak freely to the special counsel and feared Mr. Trump was setting up Mr. McGahn to take the blame for any possible illegal acts of obstruction, according to people close to him. So he and Mr. Burck devised their own strategy to do as much as possible to cooperate with Mr. Mueller to demonstrate that Mr. McGahn did nothing wrong.

It is not clear that Mr. Trump appreciates the extent to which Mr. McGahn has cooperated with the special counsel. The president wrongly believed that Mr. McGahn would act as a personal lawyer would for clients and solely defend his interests to investigators, according to a person with knowledge of his thinking.

So McGahn is our John Dean?

You know, just because some holds a security clearance doesn’t mean they can just walk into the CIA or any agency and demand access. That’s not how it works.

I wonder what the protocol is in regards to former Presidents and access to classified material? Eventually the man child will leave office.

Edit: a cursory search of Google says that former Presidents do not retain their clearance.

$iljanus wrote: ↑Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:22 pm I wonder what the protocol is in regards to former Presidents and access to classified material? Eventually the man child will leave office.

Edit: a cursory search of Google says that former Presidents do not retain their clearance.

Earlier in the thread it was mentioned that only Carter had his clearance revoked. I have no idea how accurate that is.

Amidst all the circumstantial evidence of collusion, if not outright treason, one hopes that Trump will lose his clearance before he goes to prison. I wouldn't trust that man with my grocery list.

Throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks...

Kyle Griffin wrote:Here's the video of Giuliani saying that John Brennan "claims to be a great lover of Islam, of the Islamic religion. He says the hajj was one of the most beautiful things he ever saw. So, how does all this square up?" (via Fox)

Well when you accept that the truth isn’t the truth anymore then you are free to make up whatever your racist base wants to hear.

Giuliani cracked the code. Don’t hate the player. Hate the awful people that make us play the game.

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:55 pm Throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks...

Kyle Griffin wrote:Here's the video of Giuliani saying that John Brennan "claims to be a great lover of Islam, of the Islamic religion. He says the hajj was one of the most beautiful things he ever saw. So, how does all this square up?" (via Fox)

I can't imagine how exhausting it must be to live in a constant state of pants-shitting terror that someone brown is going to pop out of the bushes and kill you.

Skinypupy wrote:

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:55 pm Throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks...

Kyle Griffin wrote:Here's the video of Giuliani saying that John Brennan "claims to be a great lover of Islam, of the Islamic religion. He says the hajj was one of the most beautiful things he ever saw. So, how does all this square up?" (via Fox)

I can't imagine how exhausting it must be to live in a constant state of pants-shitting terror that someone brown is going to pop out of the bushes and kill you.

Go walking in a gang area at night?

AP:

Giuliani was trying to make the case that having Trump sit down for an interview with special counsel Robert Mueller’s team wouldn’t accomplish much because of the he-said-she-said nature of witnesses’ recollections. Giuliani says it’s “silly” to say Trump should testify “because he’s going to tell the truth and he shouldn’t worry” because “it’s somebody’s version of the truth. Not the truth.”

Todd insisted: “Truth is truth”

Giuliani responded: “Truth isn’t truth.”

The comment left Todd flummoxed.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 2:12 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:55 pm Throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks...

Kyle Griffin wrote:Here's the video of Giuliani saying that John Brennan "claims to be a great lover of Islam, of the Islamic religion. He says the hajj was one of the most beautiful things he ever saw. So, how does all this square up?" (via Fox)

I can't imagine how exhausting it must be to live in a constant state of pants-shitting terror that someone brown is going to pop out of the bushes and kill you.

See, that's why you have to have a gun on you at all times. And probably some more in your car and house. You never know.

Pyperkub wrote:

Skinypupy wrote:

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:55 pm Throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks...

Kyle Griffin wrote:Here's the video of Giuliani saying that John Brennan "claims to be a great lover of Islam, of the Islamic religion. He says the hajj was one of the most beautiful things he ever saw. So, how does all this square up?" (via Fox)

I can't imagine how exhausting it must be to live in a constant state of pants-shitting terror that someone brown is going to pop out of the bushes and kill you.

Go walking in a gang area at night?

This comment pisses me off. What type of gang area are you referring to?

Scoop20906 wrote:

Pyperkub wrote:

Skinypupy wrote:

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:55 pm Throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks...

Kyle Griffin wrote:Here's the video of Giuliani saying that John Brennan "claims to be a great lover of Islam, of the Islamic religion. He says the hajj was one of the most beautiful things he ever saw. So, how does all this square up?" (via Fox)

I can't imagine how exhausting it must be to live in a constant state of pants-shitting terror that someone brown is going to pop out of the bushes and kill you.

Go walking in a gang area at night?

This comment pisses me off. What type of gang area are you referring to?

Oh, where Chicago is seeing multiple homicides nightly, or the worse parts of Oakland, etc.

There are some places where it isn't as safe at night, even if the safety doesn't depend on the color of skin.

If you want to imagine it, that's where you go.

Not even close to equivalent to the original comment. Crime ridden areas are unsafe. Agreed.

In the original comment, he mentioned the irrational fear of brown people? What does that have to do with crime ridden areas?

Don’t you see what you are doing with your responding comment?

Scoop20906 wrote:Not even close to equivalent to the original comment. Crime ridden areas are unsafe. Agreed.

In the original comment, he mentioned the irrational fear of brown people? What does that have to do with crime ridden areas?

Don’t you see what you are doing with your responding comment?

Edit: saw the brown word. Still, if you want to know what it's like to have the stress of poverty spend a
Some time in a poor neighborhood. But not hood tourism that's bad.

I can't speak to the real intent but I think the comment was made to be ironic. If you live there it is stressful walking around the Shady corners at night. Which is why comment like Giuliani's are offensive. He can't tell the difference between a student just trying to walk to an after school job, and an actual banger scoping out smash and grabs.

I lived a decade in an area sporadic gunfire, common drug busts , with murders, gangs, loose dogs that may or may not attack, drag racers, poison air, questionable water. And we were in the nice neighborhood.

I think the side comment was reinforcing the idea that living in poverty is stressful and bad for your health. It may have been inelegant but it was far from wrong.

The difference is the people who live in those areas harden and move on with life. I think people who live outside those areas tend to publicly freak out. It's not inherently racist to suggest that in heavy gang areas its an everyday stress to walk around at night


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My point is simply if the first word you can utter when you hear “brown” is “gang” then you and a lot of the white United States have a problem. This kind of thinking has been going on for centuries. This comment is not unique but it is demeaning to all people of color. The words you use matter and they have power.

Scoop20906 wrote:My point is simply if the first word you can utter when you hear “brown” is “gang” then you and a lot of the white United States have a problem. This kind of thinking has been going on for centuries. This comment is not unique but it is demeaning to all people of color. The words you use matter and they have power.

That I agree totally with, I just am not sure that was the point of his post.

I suppose he could have said mob area, or cartel, or meth.





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Combustible Lemur wrote:

Scoop20906 wrote:My point is simply if the first word you can utter when you hear “brown” is “gang” then you and a lot of the white United States have a problem. This kind of thinking has been going on for centuries. This comment is not unique but it is demeaning to all people of color. The words you use matter and they have power.

That I agree totally with, I just am not sure that was the point of his post.

I suppose he could have said mob area, or cartel, or meth.
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I appreciate you are trying but you are still missing the point. He saw brown and thought crime.

Brown also means integrity, hard work, middle class, upper class and a bunch of other positive things.

Our country routinely demeans a skin color daily and for what? Why? Any ideas?

Skinypupy wrote:

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:55 pm Throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks...

Kyle Griffin wrote:Here's the video of Giuliani saying that John Brennan "claims to be a great lover of Islam, of the Islamic religion. He says the hajj was one of the most beautiful things he ever saw. So, how does all this square up?" (via Fox)

I can't imagine how exhausting it must be to live in a constant state of pants-shitting terror that someone brown is going to pop out of the bushes and kill you.

He said gangs because there is nearly 0 Islamic terror in the US.

When racists picture brown violence they often think of gangs. Of course they don't think of all the wonderful things that the VAST majority of brown people represent.

Are you suggesting that if you want to know what it's like dealing with street violence on a daily basis you should go to the local community center and watch a pickup game? Or a diverse suburban HS, or an Urban HS that has good funding and a solid administration?

I don't know Guiliani's youth. Maybe he knows what it's like to be constantly harrased when he goes out. (not that I do, but my wife did) Maybe he knows what having his door kicked in feels like, or having one of his students murdered across the street, or losing young people in his life to prison or awful domestic violence cycles associated with poverty.

You seem to suggest that the acknowledging that racists referring to violent brown people picture gangs because urban minority areas with high poverty often have gang violence is perpetuating stereotypes.

I find that overly pedantic. When I see my student's dead body in my head his killer isn't white. When I picture the violent and disgusting world of meth dealers they look like my aunt(who is REAL WHITE) . When I picture the neighbors who sodded my recently repaired water main ground when we weren't looking, because my wife and I were too broke to do it right they sure aren't white.

I don't know you scoop so I don't want to make assumptions. I know that many of the Mexican and black students and colleagues I've worked with over the years would think this conversation is silly.

I get a sensitivity to reinforcement of bias through vocabulary. I don't think this is it.

I mean other than the Injection of the generalized brown into Guilianis Islamophobia.

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Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 3:45 pm AP:

Giuliani was trying to make the case that having Trump sit down for an interview with special counsel Robert Mueller’s team wouldn’t accomplish much because of the he-said-she-said nature of witnesses’ recollections. Giuliani says it’s “silly” to say Trump should testify “because he’s going to tell the truth and he shouldn’t worry” because “it’s somebody’s version of the truth. Not the truth.”

Todd insisted: “Truth is truth”

Giuliani responded: “Truth isn’t truth.”

The comment left Todd flummoxed.

Scoop20906 wrote:

Combustible Lemur wrote:

Scoop20906 wrote:My point is simply if the first word you can utter when you hear “brown” is “gang” then you and a lot of the white United States have a problem. This kind of thinking has been going on for centuries. This comment is not unique but it is demeaning to all people of color. The words you use matter and they have power.

That I agree totally with, I just am not sure that was the point of his post.

I suppose he could have said mob area, or cartel, or meth.
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I appreciate you are trying but you are still missing the point. He saw brown and thought crime.

Brown also means integrity, hard work, middle class, upper class and a bunch of other positive things.

Our country routinely demeans a skin color daily and for what? Why? Any ideas?

Okay, also re-read this post and I think see where things went sideways. And I think it's when fear of brown violence is equated with fear of brown people.

POC should warrant images ranging from ultra rich and boujie, to nerd to cool to patriotic through the whole positive and negative spectrums.

Guiliani is quoted doing something islamaphobic which bleeds heavily into fear of brown people, he's then commented on as being like people who are daily scared of brown people popping out of bushes.
Which was then equated to being stressed by life in a place where daily violence is a thing. (in particular where in the US it perceived as predominately perpetrated in brown people majority neighborhoods.)

The question is are any of those unfair leaps? The whole conversation is unfair and representative of the problems our country has. But I don't know that comparing fear of gang violence in a violent neighnorhood with understanding people's irrational fear of violence by brown people is inherently problematic outside of the big picture biases.

This seems like a lot of harranging over, if you dont understand worrying about people jumping out and causing violence walk somewhere that happens on a daily basis.

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Combustible Lemur wrote:

Skinypupy wrote:

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:55 pm Throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks...

Kyle Griffin wrote:Here's the video of Giuliani saying that John Brennan "claims to be a great lover of Islam, of the Islamic religion. He says the hajj was one of the most beautiful things he ever saw. So, how does all this square up?" (via Fox)

I can't imagine how exhausting it must be to live in a constant state of pants-shitting terror that someone brown is going to pop out of the bushes and kill you.

He said gangs because there is nearly 0 Islamic terror in the US.

When racists picture brown violence they often think of gangs. Of course they don't think of all the wonderful things that the VAST majority of brown people represent.

Are you suggesting that if you want to know what it's like dealing with street violence on a daily basis you should go to the local community center and watch a pickup game? Or a diverse suburban HS, or an Urban HS that has good funding and a solid administration?

I don't know Guiliani's youth. Maybe he knows what it's like to be constantly harrased when he goes out. (not that I do, but my wife did) Maybe he knows what having his door kicked in feels like, or having one of his students murdered across the street, or losing young people in his life to prison or awful domestic violence cycles associated with poverty.

You seem to suggest that the acknowledging that racists referring to violent brown people picture gangs because urban minority areas with high poverty often have gang violence is perpetuating stereotypes.

I find that overly pedantic. When I see my student's dead body in my head his killer isn't white. When I picture the violent and disgusting world of meth dealers they look like my aunt(who is REAL WHITE) . When I picture the neighbors who sodded my recently repaired water main ground when we weren't looking, because my wife and I were too broke to do it right they sure aren't white.

I don't know you scoop so I don't want to make assumptions. I know that many of the Mexican and black students and colleagues I've worked with over the years would think this conversation is silly.

I get a sensitivity to reinforcement of bias through vocabulary. I don't think this is it.

I mean other than the Injection of the generalized brown into Guilianis Islamophobia.

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I don’t think this is a silly conversation and I’m glad we are having it even if you aren’t agreeing with me. I’m glad you think the comment doesn’t reinforce a bias. You get that privilege. A lot of people do not. Instead they are targeted daily by the society and the system.

Since you do not know much about me I’ll let you know. I live in a mixed family. I get to see bias and I worry every day about my black stepson who is a great kid but people who think brown=gang are also going to look at him and think gang member. They have hard wired themselves that way.

See that kid at the mall. Looks like a gang banger. Call the cops. That’s the polite US that gets to pass judgement on a skin color daily. That’s why the comment pisses me off regardless of you deciding there was no bias in it.

Does that help you understand my point of view?

Combustible Lemur wrote: ↑Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:00 pm

Skinypupy wrote:

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:55 pm Throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks...

Kyle Griffin wrote:Here's the video of Giuliani saying that John Brennan "claims to be a great lover of Islam, of the Islamic religion. He says the hajj was one of the most beautiful things he ever saw. So, how does all this square up?" (via Fox)

I can't imagine how exhausting it must be to live in a constant state of pants-shitting terror that someone brown is going to pop out of the bushes and kill you.

He said gangs because there is nearly 0 Islamic terror in the US.

When racists picture brown violence they often think of gangs. Of course they don't think of all the wonderful things that the VAST majority of brown people represent.

Are you suggesting that if you want to know what it's like dealing with street violence on a daily basis you should go to the local community center and watch a pickup game? Or a diverse suburban HS, or an Urban HS that has good funding and a solid administration?

I don't know Guiliani's youth. Maybe he knows what it's like to be constantly harrased when he goes out. (not that I do, but my wife did) Maybe he knows what having his door kicked in feels like, or having one of his students murdered across the street, or losing young people in his life to prison or awful domestic violence cycles associated with poverty.

You seem to suggest that the acknowledging that racists referring to violent brown people picture gangs because urban minority areas with high poverty often have gang violence is perpetuating stereotypes.

I find that overly pedantic. When I see my student's dead body in my head his killer isn't white. When I picture the violent and disgusting world of meth dealers they look like my aunt(who is REAL WHITE) . When I picture the neighbors who sodded my recently repaired water main ground when we weren't looking, because my wife and I were too broke to do it right they sure aren't white.

I don't know you scoop so I don't want to make assumptions. I know that many of the Mexican and black students and colleagues I've worked with over the years would think this conversation is silly.

I get a sensitivity to reinforcement of bias through vocabulary. I don't think this is it.

I mean other than the Injection of the generalized brown into Guilianis Islamophobia.

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To clarify, my comment was geared entirely towards Guiliani's (and most conservatives I know) absurd Islamophobia. I don't recall saying anything about gangs.

Combustible Lemur wrote:

Scoop20906 wrote:

Combustible Lemur wrote:

Scoop20906 wrote:My point is simply if the first word you can utter when you hear “brown” is “gang” then you and a lot of the white United States have a problem. This kind of thinking has been going on for centuries. This comment is not unique but it is demeaning to all people of color. The words you use matter and they have power.

That I agree totally with, I just am not sure that was the point of his post.

I suppose he could have said mob area, or cartel, or meth.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I appreciate you are trying but you are still missing the point. He saw brown and thought crime.

Brown also means integrity, hard work, middle class, upper class and a bunch of other positive things.

Our country routinely demeans a skin color daily and for what? Why? Any ideas?

Okay, also re-read this post and I think see where things went sideways. And I think it's when fear of brown violence is equated with fear of brown people.

POC should warrant images ranging from ultra rich and boujie, to nerd to cool to patriotic through the whole positive and negative spectrums.

Guiliani is quoted doing something islamaphobic which bleeds heavily into fear of brown people, he's then commented on as being like people who are daily scared of brown people popping out of bushes.
Which was then equated to being stressed by life in a place where daily violence is a thing. (in particular where in the US it perceived as predominately perpetrated in brown people majority neighborhoods.)

The question is are any of those unfair leaps? The whole conversation is unfair and representative of the problems our country has. But I don't know that comparing fear of gang violence in a violent neighnorhood with understanding people's irrational fear of violence by brown people is inherently problematic outside of the big picture biases.

This seems like a lot of harranging over, if you dont understand worrying about people jumping out and causing violence walk somewhere that happens on a daily basis.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

Nope. I’ll take the hit if I was not clear enough that I agree living in a crime ridden area is scary. I said I agreed it is. I can think of several neighborhoods I didn’t feel safe for lots of reason. I just know some are white majority, some black majority and some Hispanic majority.

Is that fair to say?

Scoop20906 wrote:

Combustible Lemur wrote:

Skinypupy wrote:

Holman wrote: ↑Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:55 pm Throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks...

Kyle Griffin wrote:Here's the video of Giuliani saying that John Brennan "claims to be a great lover of Islam, of the Islamic religion. He says the hajj was one of the most beautiful things he ever saw. So, how does all this square up?" (via Fox)

I can't imagine how exhausting it must be to live in a constant state of pants-shitting terror that someone brown is going to pop out of the bushes and kill you.

He said gangs because there is nearly 0 Islamic terror in the US.

When racists picture brown violence they often think of gangs. Of course they don't think of all the wonderful things that the VAST majority of brown people represent.

Are you suggesting that if you want to know what it's like dealing with street violence on a daily basis you should go to the local community center and watch a pickup game? Or a diverse suburban HS, or an Urban HS that has good funding and a solid administration?

I don't know Guiliani's youth. Maybe he knows what it's like to be constantly harrased when he goes out. (not that I do, but my wife did) Maybe he knows what having his door kicked in feels like, or having one of his students murdered across the street, or losing young people in his life to prison or awful domestic violence cycles associated with poverty.

You seem to suggest that the acknowledging that racists referring to violent brown people picture gangs because urban minority areas with high poverty often have gang violence is perpetuating stereotypes.

I find that overly pedantic. When I see my student's dead body in my head his killer isn't white. When I picture the violent and disgusting world of meth dealers they look like my aunt(who is REAL WHITE) . When I picture the neighbors who sodded my recently repaired water main ground when we weren't looking, because my wife and I were too broke to do it right they sure aren't white.

I don't know you scoop so I don't want to make assumptions. I know that many of the Mexican and black students and colleagues I've worked with over the years would think this conversation is silly.

I get a sensitivity to reinforcement of bias through vocabulary. I don't think this is it.

I mean other than the Injection of the generalized brown into Guilianis Islamophobia.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I don’t think this is a silly conversation and I’m glad we are having it even if you aren’t agreeing with me. I’m glad you think the comment doesn’t reinforce a bias. You get that privilege. A lot of people do not. Instead they are targeted daily by the society and the system.

Since you do not know much about me I’ll let you know. I live in a mixed family. I get to see bias and I worry every day about my black stepson who is a great kid but people who think brown=gang are also going to look at him and think gang member. They have hard wired themselves that way.

See that kid at the mall. Looks like a gang banger. Call the cops. That’s the polite US that gets to pass judgement on a skin color daily. That’s why the comment pisses me off regardless of you deciding there was no bias in it.

Does that help you understand my point of view?

It does help, and though not remotely equivalent it annoys me when people give the pity look or an I'm sorry when I tell them the highschool I worked and lived at.

I'm not questioning the bias. Nor am I questioning your right to be annoyed. Is it fair to attribute negative bias to a totally relevant association?

I don't associate my students with gangs, but I do associate gangs with the adjacent neighborhood to mine, and the lives of my students. I don't associate POC with gangs (other than the inherent cultural biases that you're referring to) but I do associate urban gangs with POC.

Also this now has nothing to do with Trump's investigation,..... Maga moving on.

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Scoop20906 wrote:

Combustible Lemur wrote:

Scoop20906 wrote:

Combustible Lemur wrote:

Scoop20906 wrote:My point is simply if the first word you can utter when you hear “brown” is “gang” then you and a lot of the white United States have a problem. This kind of thinking has been going on for centuries. This comment is not unique but it is demeaning to all people of color. The words you use matter and they have power.

That I agree totally with, I just am not sure that was the point of his post.

I suppose he could have said mob area, or cartel, or meth.
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I appreciate you are trying but you are still missing the point. He saw brown and thought crime.

Brown also means integrity, hard work, middle class, upper class and a bunch of other positive things.

Our country routinely demeans a skin color daily and for what? Why? Any ideas?

Okay, also re-read this post and I think see where things went sideways. And I think it's when fear of brown violence is equated with fear of brown people.

POC should warrant images ranging from ultra rich and boujie, to nerd to cool to patriotic through the whole positive and negative spectrums.

Guiliani is quoted doing something islamaphobic which bleeds heavily into fear of brown people, he's then commented on as being like people who are daily scared of brown people popping out of bushes.
Which was then equated to being stressed by life in a place where daily violence is a thing. (in particular where in the US it perceived as predominately perpetrated in brown people majority neighborhoods.)

The question is are any of those unfair leaps? The whole conversation is unfair and representative of the problems our country has. But I don't know that comparing fear of gang violence in a violent neighnorhood with understanding people's irrational fear of violence by brown people is inherently problematic outside of the big picture biases.

This seems like a lot of harranging over, if you dont understand worrying about people jumping out and causing violence walk somewhere that happens on a daily basis.

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Nope. I’ll take the hit if I was not clear enough that I agree living in a crime ridden area is scary. I said I agreed it is. I can think of several neighborhoods I didn’t feel safe for lots of reason. I just know some are white majority, some black majority and some Hispanic majority.

Is that fair to say?

TOTALLY

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