Octopus Overlords

They have signaled that it is an open bar. Step right up, what's your poison?

Octavious wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:48 am I can't wait to see what they slot up for the next term. Minimum wage? Obamacare? The Republicans must be drooling at everything they can wish for now.

They don't need to bother with Obamacare. They have bigger fish to fry. Attacking Obamacare was a method to drum up the support for this session's coup by our robed tyrants. They are going for the big prize - one party rule of the United States.

Octavious wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:48 am I can't wait to see what they slot up for the next term. Minimum wage? Obamacare? The Republicans must be drooling at everything they can wish for now.

Yeah, I suspect both of those things are up soon if not next.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:52 am

Octavious wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:48 am I can't wait to see what they slot up for the next term. Minimum wage? Obamacare? The Republicans must be drooling at everything they can wish for now.

Yeah, I suspect both of those things are up soon if not next.

I still think they don't bother with the ACA. Minimum wage is definitely for sure on the table. Also why not put a stake in non-police union membership too.

malchior wrote:

Octavious wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:48 am I can't wait to see what they slot up for the next term. Minimum wage? Obamacare? The Republicans must be drooling at everything they can wish for now.

They don't need to bother with Obamacare. They have bigger fish to fry. Attacking Obamacare was a method to drum up the support for this session's coup by our robed tyrants. They are going for the big prize - one party rule of the United States.

Pretending there's another party is a great way to keep everyone in line. So I mean they will always try and keep the big bad socialists at bay for the good of the country.

Octavious wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:55 am

malchior wrote:

Octavious wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:48 am I can't wait to see what they slot up for the next term. Minimum wage? Obamacare? The Republicans must be drooling at everything they can wish for now.

They don't need to bother with Obamacare. They have bigger fish to fry. Attacking Obamacare was a method to drum up the support for this session's coup by our robed tyrants. They are going for the big prize - one party rule of the United States.

Pretending there's another party is a great way to keep everyone in line. So I mean they will always try and keep the big bad socialists at bay for the good of the country.

For sure, there were other candidates in the Soviet Union too. I meant effective one party rule.

I suspect they will also continue to erode the idea of separation of church and state, and probably escalate. The "midfield praying coach" was just the warmup.

Ya there seems to be a religious wave coming. Desantis would for sure inject religious crap into all public schools. And the court would gleefully rubber stamp it.

They also granted cert just now to Moore v. Harper. That probably means they are going to tell state courts they have no jurisdiction over federal elections. Aka saying state courts wont be able to say cut the shit with gerrymandering and how votes in federal elections are counted. Shit is grim.

Edit: Some background.

malchior wrote:

Octavious wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:55 am

malchior wrote:

Octavious wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:48 am I can't wait to see what they slot up for the next term. Minimum wage? Obamacare? The Republicans must be drooling at everything they can wish for now.

They don't need to bother with Obamacare. They have bigger fish to fry. Attacking Obamacare was a method to drum up the support for this session's coup by our robed tyrants. They are going for the big prize - one party rule of the United States.

Pretending there's another party is a great way to keep everyone in line. So I mean they will always try and keep the big bad socialists at bay for the good of the country.

For sure, there were other candidates in the Soviet Union too. I meant effective one party rule.

I mean effectively we are there already. So ya. I guess fleeing to Bosnia would be a weird choice considering their history. Germany too..

I suggest Ireland. It has the lowest investment bar I've found as yet in the relatively sane nations.

LOL that's exactly what Adisa keeps saying we should go.

So the choice for the democrat leadership is now to say "Fuck the supreme court" or "Fuck the country"

I know which side the Democrats are going to take. Because they already have their golden parachutes.

So you could gerrymander the shit out of your state and the only ones who could say it's bad is the supreme court? We know how they are going to rule on that one. I'm so renewing my passport. I'll go herd goats or something.

malchior wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:04 am They also granted cert just now to Moore v. Harper. That probably means they are going to tell state courts they have no jurisdiction over federal elections. Aka saying state courts wont be able to say cut the shit with gerrymandering and how votes in federal elections are counted. Shit is grim.

So say that this theory is adopted (which honestly seems like 95%+ likely that it will be). Now suppose it's 2024 and it's Biden v. Trump again. Biden appears to narrowly win Wisconsin. The GOP state legislature cites vague allegations of irregularity and votes to essentially disregard the election results and to award the state's delegates to Trump.

Who, if anyone, could challenge this? Presumably under this idea Wisconsin state courts would be powerless. Would there be any plausible federal causes of action?

I assume it'd be only in Federal Court. I can't imagine you wouldn't be able to go up the circuit but I don't even think this is the main risk. You can just rig the game and the court of review is this SCOTUS. They've already told legislatures that gerrymandering is political and out of their hands. I can't help but think they'd defer to the legislature in red states. I think this really is exceedingly grim stuff.

And what can we do as citizensresidents? I mean when the ballot box is no longer viable and the ammo box is dwarfed by the opposition, what do you do?

I figure they're going to choke off the cities eventually so getting the bug-out cabin in order now. But is there a path to not-fucked anymore?

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:51 am And what can we do as citizensresidents? I mean when the ballot box is no longer viable and the ammo box is dwarfed by the opposition, what do you do?

I figure they're going to choke off the cities eventually so getting the bug-out cabin in order now. But is there a path to not-fucked anymore?

Sustained mass protests.

Octavious wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 10:48 am I can't wait to see what they slot up for the next term. Minimum wage? Obamacare? The Republicans must be drooling at everything they can wish for now.

As someone on disability with a kid on disability, I'm pretty confident that I'm standing in line for the chopping block as we speak.

El Guapo wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:05 pm Sustained mass protests.

In approved areas.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:51 am And what can we do as citizensresidents? I mean when the ballot box is no longer viable and the ammo box is dwarfed by the opposition, what do you do?

I figure they're going to choke off the cities eventually so getting the bug-out cabin in order now. But is there a path to not-fucked anymore?

A declaration of a state of emergency by Biden, NOW and a constitutional convention. Otherwise its all downhill from here.

El Guapo wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:05 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:51 am And what can we do as citizensresidents? I mean when the ballot box is no longer viable and the ammo box is dwarfed by the opposition, what do you do?

I figure they're going to choke off the cities eventually so getting the bug-out cabin in order now. But is there a path to not-fucked anymore?

Sustained mass protests.

Like Occupy Wall Street? BLM?

The fun thing is people are starting to get our democracy might be over unless we pack the court. But guess what? There is almost no chance that happens unless we do it...right now. Otherwise might not be possible unless there is a huge win in 2024.

Drazzil wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:08 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:51 am And what can we do as citizensresidents? I mean when the ballot box is no longer viable and the ammo box is dwarfed by the opposition, what do you do?

I figure they're going to choke off the cities eventually so getting the bug-out cabin in order now. But is there a path to not-fucked anymore?

A declaration of a state of emergency by Biden, NOW and a constitutional convention. Otherwise its all downhill from here.

not sure anymore what you mean when you say "constitutional convention".

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:09 pm

El Guapo wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:05 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:51 am And what can we do as citizensresidents? I mean when the ballot box is no longer viable and the ammo box is dwarfed by the opposition, what do you do?

I figure they're going to choke off the cities eventually so getting the bug-out cabin in order now. But is there a path to not-fucked anymore?

Sustained mass protests.

Like Occupy Wall Street? BLM?

Bigger. Everywhere. People would have to give up things and take a risk. Probably impossible for those reasons.

Unagi wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:11 pm

Drazzil wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:08 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:51 am And what can we do as citizensresidents? I mean when the ballot box is no longer viable and the ammo box is dwarfed by the opposition, what do you do?

I figure they're going to choke off the cities eventually so getting the bug-out cabin in order now. But is there a path to not-fucked anymore?

A declaration of a state of emergency by Biden, NOW and a constitutional convention. Otherwise its all downhill from here.

not sure anymore what you mean when you say "constitutional convention".

Consti-Con 2022, Philadelphia PA. The world's largest 18th-Century cosplay event!

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:09 pm

El Guapo wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:05 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:51 am And what can we do as citizensresidents? I mean when the ballot box is no longer viable and the ammo box is dwarfed by the opposition, what do you do?

I figure they're going to choke off the cities eventually so getting the bug-out cabin in order now. But is there a path to not-fucked anymore?

Sustained mass protests.

Like Occupy Wall Street? BLM?

More like Tiananmen Square.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:13 pm Consti-Con

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:13 pm

Unagi wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:11 pm

Drazzil wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:08 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:51 am And what can we do as citizensresidents? I mean when the ballot box is no longer viable and the ammo box is dwarfed by the opposition, what do you do?

I figure they're going to choke off the cities eventually so getting the bug-out cabin in order now. But is there a path to not-fucked anymore?

A declaration of a state of emergency by Biden, NOW and a constitutional convention. Otherwise its all downhill from here.

not sure anymore what you mean when you say "constitutional convention".

Consti-Con 2022, Philadelphia PA. The world's largest 18th-Century cosplay event!

LOL. Better call it something that Americans care about, like, guns or porn or netflix and then when they get there don't let em leave till we get a working constitution.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:51 am And what can we do as citizensresidents? I mean when the ballot box is no longer viable and the ammo box is dwarfed by the opposition, what do you do?

I figure they're going to choke off the cities eventually so getting the bug-out cabin in order now. But is there a path to not-fucked anymore?

Portugal is looking better every day.

malchior wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:12 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:09 pm

El Guapo wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:05 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:51 am And what can we do as citizensresidents? I mean when the ballot box is no longer viable and the ammo box is dwarfed by the opposition, what do you do?

I figure they're going to choke off the cities eventually so getting the bug-out cabin in order now. But is there a path to not-fucked anymore?

Sustained mass protests.

Like Occupy Wall Street? BLM?

Bigger. Everywhere. People would have to give up things and take a risk. Probably impossible for those reasons.

Anyway if anyone is reading this (and they aren't) I hope that the old adage that America always does the right thing when they're backed into it is true. That'd be a hell of a lot of backing, as I'm 40 this year and I've *NEVER* seen government or the courts work. Thus my INCREDIBLY negative take on this whole situation, and my encouragement of tying up the other side and throwing them in the boot for a bit so sane people can drive.

Now I'm going to take a sanity break from this for a while. I'm just getting upset and no one here wants to hear what I think anyway. It took me a LOOONG while to realize that, but I'm there. Have fun.

malchior wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:12 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:09 pm

El Guapo wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:05 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:51 am And what can we do as citizensresidents? I mean when the ballot box is no longer viable and the ammo box is dwarfed by the opposition, what do you do?

I figure they're going to choke off the cities eventually so getting the bug-out cabin in order now. But is there a path to not-fucked anymore?

Sustained mass protests.

Like Occupy Wall Street? BLM?

Bigger. Everywhere. People would have to give up things and take a risk. Probably impossible for those reasons.

We are still VERY much in the 'nebulous' and 'political' stage of degradation. When shit starts to hit people's pocketbooks, or affects their immediate, daily lives, that is when you get the MASS protests, and not before. And I think it has to get a LOT more specific (like a Roe ruling, but still, that is not pocket-book hitting, so you get moderate protests like we saw) You aren't going to see millions of people in front of every state capitol because the SC essentially neutered the EPA for instance. Too abstract.

Drazzil wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:29 pmtying up the other side and throwing them in the boot for a bit so sane people can drive.

LOL, that's a great image. I don't disagree.

I don't think moderate, slow Joe is up for this, as much as I seem to like him. He's just not.

Absolutely not. But since we're burning it all to the ground via climate change, might as well burn this down, too.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:33 pm

malchior wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:12 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:09 pm

El Guapo wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 12:05 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Jun 30, 2022 11:51 am And what can we do as citizensresidents? I mean when the ballot box is no longer viable and the ammo box is dwarfed by the opposition, what do you do?

I figure they're going to choke off the cities eventually so getting the bug-out cabin in order now. But is there a path to not-fucked anymore?

Sustained mass protests.

Like Occupy Wall Street? BLM?

Bigger. Everywhere. People would have to give up things and take a risk. Probably impossible for those reasons.

We are still VERY much in the 'nebulous' and 'political' stage of degradation. When shit starts to hit people's pocketbooks, or affects their immediate, daily lives, that is when you get the MASS protests, and not before. And I think it has to get a LOT more specific (like a Roe ruling, but still, that is not pocket-book hitting, so you get moderate protests like we saw) You aren't going to see millions of people in front of every state capitol because the SC essentially neutered the EPA for instance. Too abstract.

To be clear by what I mean by "sustained mass protests" it was a follow-on to the above discussion about the state legislative theory case and the SCOTUS laying the groundwork for the 2024 coup. Specifically in terms of what the potential remedy would be if the SCOTUS basically closes the door to any judicial relief to a legalized coup.

So like if the election turns on Wisconsin, Biden wins Wisconsin, but the Wisconsin legislature votes to award the state's delegates to Trump, the odds that the SCOTUS would step in to prevent that are (sadly, and horrifically) low. So the best chance of stopping that would be mass protests (probably first concentrated in Madison, then moving to DC if necessary).

Would that work? Sustained mass protests are among the more effective strategies against authoritarianism, though they certainly don't always work (especially if the authoritarian has loyal military / police forces willing to shoot protesters). Though it would also depend upon people believing that Biden won and that that was being reversed illegally, and it's not hard to imagine WI GOP legislators working hard to make sure that the vote counting is stopped at a moment when Trump appears to be ahead.