The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

[Daehawk]

I haven't masked since mid last year. I think I may go by Walgreens tomorrow and get my COVID booster shot and the monkey pox vaccine. Maybe. I think its time. Last one I think was last year around this time.

[Smoove_B]

No judgements here, but who's telling you that you need mpox vaccination?

Spoiler:

CDC recommends vaccination against mpox if:

You had known or suspected exposure to someone with mpox
You had a sex partner in the past 2 weeks who was diagnosed with mpox
You are a gay, bisexual, or other man who has sex with men or a transgender, nonbinary, or gender-diverse person who in the past 6 months has had any of the following:
A new diagnosis of one or more sexually transmitted diseases (e.g., chlamydia, gonorrhea, or syphilis)
More than one sex partner
You have had any of the following in the past 6 months:
Sex at a commercial sex venue (like a sex club or bathhouse)
Sex related to a large commercial event or in a geographic area (city or county for example) where mpox virus transmission is occurring
Sex in exchange for money or other items
You have a sex partner with any of the above risks
You anticipate experiencing any of the above scenarios
You have HIV or other causes of immune suppression and have had recent or anticipate future risk of mpox exposure from any of the above scenarios
You work in settings where you may be exposed to mpox:
You work with orthopoxviruses in a laboratory

Regarding COVID booster, you probably aren't eligible. Call the pharmacy as I'd expect them to only be providing the shot to people over 65 at this point.

[Unagi]

No judgements here, but who's telling you that you need mpox vaccination?

Spoiler:

CDC recommends vaccination against mpox if:

You had known or suspected exposure to someone with mpox
You had a sex partner in the past 2 weeks who was diagnosed with mpox
You are a gay, bisexual, or other man who has sex with men or a transgender, nonbinary, or gender-diverse person who in the past 6 months has had any of the following:
A new diagnosis of one or more sexually transmitted diseases (e.g., chlamydia, gonorrhea, or syphilis)
More than one sex partner
You have had any of the following in the past 6 months:
Sex at a commercial sex venue (like a sex club or bathhouse)
Sex related to a large commercial event or in a geographic area (city or county for example) where mpox virus transmission is occurring
Sex in exchange for money or other items
You have a sex partner with any of the above risks
You anticipate experiencing any of the above scenarios
You have HIV or other causes of immune suppression and have had recent or anticipate future risk of mpox exposure from any of the above scenarios
You work in settings where you may be exposed to mpox:
You work with orthopoxviruses in a laboratory

Regarding COVID booster, you probably aren't eligible. Call the pharmacy as I'd expect them to only be providing the shot to people over 65 at this point.

You obviously missed the post where Daehawk shared that his little dog had caught mpox and totally sexxed him up.

[gilraen]

Regardless, you can't get mpox vaccination at a retail clinic.

[Unagi]

Vet?

[Blackhawk]

I'm sure it's a perfectly excellent monkey, but I don't want it. Now please leave. I'm very busy.

[Isgrimnur]

Unacceptable Simian Casualties

[Smoove_B]

Unreal

https://twitter.com/mskathleenquinn/sta ... 5164761090

I want to point out that when politicians see a benefit to protecting health they snap their fingers and make it happen. Never ever believe a politician who tries to duck responsibility by saying "It's not that simple." It is. US politicians can always find the money.

Governor Kathy Hochul
Tomorrow morning, one million N95 masks will be made available at state facilities.400,000 will be distributed to New Yorkers at @MTA stations, @PABusTerminal, @NYStateParks & @Javitscenter.

600,000 will be available from @NYSDHSES stockpiles for local governments to pick up.

[Pyperkub]

These jackholes should never be trusted again tho:

Howard is especially disturbed at how politicizing the pandemic has allowed fringe ideas to infiltrate public health policies.

“In 2019 you would have been considered a quack if you suggested that the best way to get rid of a virus is to spread the virus,” he says. “But that became mainstream and influenced politicians at the highest levels.”

In his book, Howard reserves his deepest scorn for the promoters of the “Great Barrington Declaration,” a manifesto for herd immunity published in October 2020 and signed initially by epidemiologists Jay Bhattacharya of Stanford; Martin Kulldorff, then of Harvard; and Sunetra Gupta of Oxford. (Thousands of other academics and scientists would later add their signatures.)

To repeat - the shills are:

Scott Atlas
Jay Bhattacharya
Martin Kulldorff
Sunetra Gupta

[Max Peck]

I was in the pharmacy today for my quarterly drug buy. I was the only customer with a mask, although the pharmacy personnel were masked (all the medical/pharmaceutical staff, but none of the retail staff working the floor). Aside from that, the only other masker I saw while out and about was one little old lady who was waiting for a bus.

What a difference a few days makes. My prescriptions don't allow substitutions (thankfully my doctor doesn't like generic "bio-similar" drugs any more than I trust them), so any time I get refills they initially give me a week's worth of drugs and order in the balance of what's required because the only stuff they stock anymore is their own shitty generic brand. But I digress... On Monday, all of the pharmacy staff was masked, but today none of them were.

Maybe the smoke killed off all the COVID and nobody told me. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[YellowKing]

Our hospital just lifted COVID vaccine requirements for all workers.

[Smoove_B]

Our hospital just lifted COVID vaccine requirements for all workers.

Are they required to vaccinate for annual influenza? Take a TB test? Because why bother now.

[Smoove_B]

Forgot to post this on Monday, add NJ to the list of places where healthcare workers are no longer required to be vaccinated:

Following recent changes to federal requirements regarding COVID-19 vaccines, Governor Phil Murphy today signed Executive Order (EO) No. 332 to lift the COVID-19 vaccination requirements for health care settings in New Jersey.

An executive order signed on April 3, 2023 previously lifted the requirement for employees in health care settings who were not up to date on their COVID-19 vaccinations to undergo routine testing, while also lifting both the COVID-19 vaccination and testing requirements for workers in congregate settings. Today’s EO lifts the remaining requirement that health care settings maintain a policy requiring their workers to be up to date on their COVID-19 vaccinations.

Fully expecting groups to start legally pushing for the removal of other workplace vaccinations, because reasons (mostly freedom).

[Max Peck]

I believe a lot of that freedom is actually feardumb.

[Smoove_B]

We are absolutely living in the most insane timeline:

In March 2020, as lockdowns gripped the world and the COVID-19 pandemic was officially in full swing, Lisa Brosseau, a national expert on respiratory protection and infectious diseases at the Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy, was pleading with the CDC to “follow the science.” Contrary to the information from the CDC and WHO at the time, Brosseau—and other experts who would soon follow—thought the SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes COVID-19 could be transmitted via aerosols: tiny particles emitted when an infected person talks, sings, or breathes. Aerosols are, by definition, smaller than the “droplets” emitted by sneezing and coughing, and can travel further in the air than bigger droplets can. Viral transmission can occur when a non-infected person inhales these small aerosolized particles, and research would soon show aerosols are a primary means of SARS-CoV-2 transmission.

But in March 2020, when Brosseau started making a case for aerosolized transmission, the CDC and the WHO insisted that the virus was primarily transmitted through droplets and fomites (touching something an infected person touched).

This debate wasn’t simply academic or semantic; it had—and has—very real consequences for how people protect themselves and others from contracting the virus. Good ventilation is critical, as Brosseau told The Daily Beast at the time, and a fit-tested respirator like an N95 is significantly more effective at filtering small particles than a cloth face covering or surgical mask. It took the WHO a year and a half and the CDC two years to fully acknowledge the reality of aerosol transmission of SARS-CoV-2, including that well-fitting respirators approved by the National Institute of Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) “offer the highest level of protection.”

So that's where we were. How are things now?

The Health Infection Control Practices Advisory Committee (HICPAC) advises the CDC and Department of Health on guidelines for infection control in health-care settings—standards that were last updated in 2007. According to Brosseau, these guidelines are typically adopted by the CDC and thus considered “guidance from on high” by hospital systems.

HICPAC will meet in August and may vote on proposed updated guidelines for infection control—and it may end up exacerbating concerns rather than assuaging them. An informational slide deck outlining the committee’s proposed updated guidelines, obtained and reviewed by The Daily Beast, makes little mention of aerosol transmission of viruses, and cites what experts say are flawed studies to suggest there is no difference in the protection offered between respirators like N95s and surgical masks.

...

In the section discussing pathogen transmission, there is only a cursory mention of aerosols and airborne transmission, but no real discussion of the types of protection needed for different types of viruses. More shocking, however, is the Evidence Review at the end of the slide deck, in which the studies cited by HICPAC as supporting evidence of its conclusions do not appear to be as robust and persuasive as many public health experts expected.

It's a long article but in closing:

There is still time to open this process up, Harrison said. “Right now, we’re trying to put up a yellow caution light, like, ‘Let’s slow down and ensure everybody is on the bus.’” Failing to do so could drastically affect health-care workers, and may further erode the public’s trust in public health organizations—which already took a big hit after the slow and inconsistent acknowledgment of aerosol transmission of SARS-CoV-2.

For Brosseau, the risk of pushing forward bad guidelines without stakeholders’ input could decimate what remaining trust in the CDC exists, and make even staunch supporters believe it is “going backward. They’re going to be shocked.”

“The decisions some of these public health people are making are not getting better,” she said. “They’re getting worse.”

I never actually understood the medical establishment's resistance to handwashing - it's seemed absurd. I totally understand it now.

[malchior]

This almost certainly has to be about money, right? Like we could be lead to believe it's incompetence but it feels like big purse strings muscling a process to me.

[Kasey Chang]

Sounds more like institutional inertia.

There was a Wired article on how the fight between aerosol vs droplets in 2020 was fought (and won by science).

The problem is, IMHO, the proliferation of social media has basically allowed EVERYONE to spread BS/misinformation to people who wanted to hear such, and politicians started using it to create wedge issues to divide up "us vs them". Abortion was not a GOP vs DEM issue until it became one. Back in 70s and 80s both parties have people on both sides. But politicians turned everything into wedge issues. And COVID was politicized to the extreme.

[Smoove_B]

This almost certainly has to be about money, right? Like we could be lead to believe it's incompetence but it feels like big purse strings muscling a process to me.

I'm absolutely convinced it's about money and probably to a lesser degree, the working culture. If they make recommendations that suggest improved air quality is needed (short term - n95 masks, longer term HVAC upgrades) that will eat into their bottom line. But just generally to have workplaces go from unmasked to masked (in patient areas) would be a significant culture change. The same culture that is unwinding vaccination requirements isn't going to tell medical and administrative/support staff to wear an n95.

[Smoove_B]

Again, not about Covid-19, but absolutely stemming from the response to it. Dark days, my friends:

The Republican-controlled Wisconsin Legislature on Wednesday voted to stop Democratic Gov. Tony Evers’ administration from requiring seventh graders to be vaccinated against meningitis.

The state Senate and Assembly, with all Republicans in support and Democrats against, voted to block the proposal. There is no current meningitis vaccination requirement for Wisconsin students.

The Legislature’s vote also makes it easier for parents to get an exemption from a chicken pox vaccine requirement that is in place for all K-6 students. Evers’ administration wanted to require parents seeking a chicken pox vaccination exemption to provide proof that their child has previously been infected.

Families could still seek waivers from the meningitis vaccination and chickenpox proof requirements for medical, religious or philosophical reasons, just as they can for other vaccinations.

[LordMortis]

I've known a more than a couple of people suffer through spinal meningitis. If that is one and the same as meningitis, fuck that shit.

[Smoove_B]

"Meningitis" is just the name of symptom - literally inflammation of the meninges - the membranes that surround your central nervous system. Caused by viral and bacterial infections. Viral meningitis is usually less severe; the vaccination is trying to stop bacterial meningitis, which is potentially deadly. And like many other vaccine preventable diseases, it's not just about death. People that get meningitis can have long-term health complications (nerve damage, brain damage, paralysis) even if they otherwise fully recover from the infection.

The idea that politicians would start to proactively go after the tools we have to address childhood vaccine preventable diseases is...a line I didn't see being crossed. Well, before 2020.

Read more here, if you'd like.

[ImLawBoy]

So, my wife went in on Monday for her (final?) chemo infusion. Because the floor where this occurs is full of cancer patients, there are signs everywhere saying that masking is required. Friends, you'll be shocked to know that not everyone was complying. There was a couple who were not wearing masks (not even tucked below their chins). My wife avoided direct confrontation by mentioning it to the ladies at the check in counter, and they apparently talked to the people and asked them to mask up. As they walked past my wife to get masks, one of them said, "Narc!" to her. Shortly after that, one of them called her "Liberal bitch."

My wife moved as close to the reception folks as possible, and she told them about this. They all know her at this point from prior visits, and they were sympathetic (they apparently told a third person who was masking "insufficiently" to put on her mask). My wife was pretty shaken by this, including some crying (keep in mind, I was across the street at the children's hospital at the time with our oldest son and his broken femur, so stress was generally high to begin with). When she went back for her infusion, someone came to her and told her that security had escorted the pair out of the building and that their appointment for the day had been cancelled (it wasn't a treatment day for them, so more inconvenience than harmful for them).

The moral of the story is, some people still suck, but at least some medical groups are still doing the right thing for the immunocompromised.

[Smoove_B]

The moral of the story is, some people still suck, but at least some medical groups are still doing the right thing for the immunocompromised.

I'm happy to hear this. I'm reading too many accounts where it's the medical professionals themselves refusing to do anything to protect the people that need it the most, and I genuinely don't understand it.

The insane backlash over masking feels so disproportionate to the other things we collectively just do now (seat belts, helmets, etc...) that I still don't know how to process it all.

[Zaxxon]

The moral of the story is, some people still suck, but at least some medical groups are still doing the right thing for the immunocompromised.

I'm happy to hear this. I'm reading too many accounts where it's the medical professionals themselves refusing to do anything to protect the people that need it the most, and I genuinely don't understand it.

The insane backlash over masking feels so disproportionate to the other things we collectively just do now (seat belts, helmets, etc...) that I still don't know how to process it all.

It's only a timing issue. If seat belts had been invented in 2020, they'd be a liberal snowflake campaign to weaken our nation and usage would skew heavily left.

[Kurth]

The moral of the story is, some people still suck, but at least some medical groups are still doing the right thing for the immunocompromised.

I'm happy to hear this. I'm reading too many accounts where it's the medical professionals themselves refusing to do anything to protect the people that need it the most, and I genuinely don't understand it.

The insane backlash over masking feels so disproportionate to the other things we collectively just do now (seat belts, helmets, etc...) that I still don't know how to process it all.

It's only a timing issue. If seat belts had been invented in 2020, they'd be a liberal snowflake campaign to weaken our nation and usage would skew heavily left.

Umm, I don't think it's a timing thing at all. Seatbelts were a "liberal snowflake" thing back in the day (or, more timely, a commie campaign). So were laws prohibiting drunk driving . . . We have a long history of this shit.

[Blackhawk]

So in another 30 years or so we'll have some options to protect against COVID.

[Zaxxon]

The moral of the story is, some people still suck, but at least some medical groups are still doing the right thing for the immunocompromised.

I'm happy to hear this. I'm reading too many accounts where it's the medical professionals themselves refusing to do anything to protect the people that need it the most, and I genuinely don't understand it.

The insane backlash over masking feels so disproportionate to the other things we collectively just do now (seat belts, helmets, etc...) that I still don't know how to process it all.

It's only a timing issue. If seat belts had been invented in 2020, they'd be a liberal snowflake campaign to weaken our nation and usage would skew heavily left.

Umm, I don't think it's a timing thing at all. Seatbelts were a "liberal snowflake" thing back in the day (or, more timely, a commie campaign). So were laws prohibiting drunk driving . . . We have a long history of this shit.

Right, because they've been around a long time and eventually rationality won out. We're still in the commie campaign phase of pandemic response.

[Kraken]

The moral of the story is, some people still suck, but at least some medical groups are still doing the right thing for the immunocompromised.

I'm happy to hear this. I'm reading too many accounts where it's the medical professionals themselves refusing to do anything to protect the people that need it the most, and I genuinely don't understand it.

The insane backlash over masking feels so disproportionate to the other things we collectively just do now (seat belts, helmets, etc...) that I still don't know how to process it all.

It's only a timing issue. If seat belts had been invented in 2020, they'd be a liberal snowflake campaign to weaken our nation and usage would skew heavily left.

Umm, I don't think it's a timing thing at all. Seatbelts were a "liberal snowflake" thing back in the day (or, more timely, a commie campaign). So were laws prohibiting drunk driving . . . We have a long history of this shit.

As the founder and sole member of DAMM (Drunks Against Meddling Mothers), I shall have to ask you to step outside.

[Alefroth]

And don't come back in!

[Smoove_B]

Umm, I don't think it's a timing thing at all. Seatbelts were a "liberal snowflake" thing back in the day (or, more timely, a commie campaign). So were laws prohibiting drunk driving . . . We have a long history of this shit.

Yeah, that is true. I think the kicker is social media. It was one thing to be an idiot in your own town or among a small social circle. I have to believe over time social pressure eventually won. The difference now is you can get online and see so many others (and connect with them) also being idiots and feel validated that you're in the right.

Thanks again, internet.

[Smoove_B]

I'm just going to park this story from last week right here. Mainly because I suspect more and more employers are going to start banning the use of masks in the workplace; In-N-Out Burger has apparently already done so as of this week.

Employers cannot be held liable when workers contract COVID-19 on the job and spread it to their household members, California's top court has ruled, siding with business groups that warned of a potential flood of litigation.

The seven-member California Supreme Court on Thursday ruled unanimously that allowing so-called "take-home COVID" claims could encourage businesses to adopt precautions that slow the delivery of services to the public or to shut down completely during pandemics.

A woman named Corby Kuciemba filed the lawsuit, saying she became seriously ill when her husband contracted COVID at his job with Nevada-based Victory Woodworks Inc in 2020 at a construction site in San Francisco and passed it to her.

A ruling in favor of Kuciemba would have turned every employer in California into a potential defendant, the court said, even when the company had taken reasonable steps to prevent the spread of the virus or when it is impossible to prove that employees contracted COVID at work.

[TheMix]

"...even when the company had taken reasonable steps to prevent the spread of the virus..."

Is... is that a unicorn that I spy with mine eye?

(Yes, I realize that the statement was a generalization and not specific to the case. However, it just struck me as such an extremely unlikely thing these days.)

[Smoove_B]

Indeed. This all goes back to what the CDC is promoting and then what states are interpreting. The fact that hospital systems are now mask-free suggests (to me) that it's all over (in terms of worker safety). In other words, if hospital systems are no longer actively protecting patients and hospital staff from an emerging infectious disease, we can't reasonably expect a mom and pop store or your local big box store to initiate infection control protocols that protect their workers and the general public.

In short, crazy times.

[TheMix]

I feel like I should be contributing to the Smoove_B Scotch Fund(tm). Does anyone know the address?

[Smoove_B]

I did get Power Wash Simulator last night and it was probably the longest I've checked my brain at the door in like..3 years. It was fantastic; wish I'd found it sooner.

But yes, I'm still genuinely concerned about what the next 3-5 years look like. I'm not worried about death anymore, but the idea of living with chronic health conditions for another 20+ years (if I'm lucky) or 50+ years for my kid still keeps me up at night.

[Blackhawk]

I'm just going to park this story from last week right here. Mainly because I suspect more and more employers are going to start banning the use of masks in the workplace; In-N-Out Burger has apparently already done so as of this week.

Employers cannot be held liable when workers contract COVID-19 on the job and spread it to their household members, California's top court has ruled, siding with business groups that warned of a potential flood of litigation.

The seven-member California Supreme Court on Thursday ruled unanimously that allowing so-called "take-home COVID" claims could encourage businesses to adopt precautions that slow the delivery of services to the public or to shut down completely during pandemics.

A woman named Corby Kuciemba filed the lawsuit, saying she became seriously ill when her husband contracted COVID at his job with Nevada-based Victory Woodworks Inc in 2020 at a construction site in San Francisco and passed it to her.

A ruling in favor of Kuciemba would have turned every employer in California into a potential defendant, the court said, even when the company had taken reasonable steps to prevent the spread of the virus or when it is impossible to prove that employees contracted COVID at work.

Still not a lawyer, but in regards to the decision... I'm not sure I see the issue. I can't imagine any way to actually confirm where you got COVID in today's world, so being able to sue an employer just because you worked there when you got sick doesn't seem reasonable.

[Max Peck]

One issue is their motive for the ruling:

The seven-member California Supreme Court on Thursday ruled unanimously that allowing so-called "take-home COVID" claims could encourage businesses to adopt precautions that slow the delivery of services to the public or to shut down completely during pandemics.

Never again, I guess.

[Smoove_B]

Still not a lawyer, but in regards to the decision... I'm not sure I see the issue. I can't imagine any way to actually confirm where you got COVID in today's world, so being able to sue an employer just because you worked there when you got sick doesn't seem reasonable.

In 2023, absolutely next to impossible to figure it out -short of genetic testing.

In 2020, IIRC the woman indicated she did not leave her house (as was customary at the time) and the only person she had interactions with was her husband. That's still not a slam-dunk in terms of (legal) proof, but I have a hazy memory of reading the case when it first hit the news and that's what I remember.

Regardless, I do think the case is telegraphing what we all know - that it would just be too expensive for workplaces to modify or adjust their practices to make workplaces safer, so nothing will be done. Again, we knew this, it's just additional confirmation it's about money.

[Pyperkub]

Dear lord. These shitstains need to be put under Oath and made to defend this garbage in court.

https://www.rawstory.com/desantis-biological-weapon/



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[Smoove_B]

In case you were wondering, there are still testing protocols in place at the White House for anyone that is around President Biden.

But everywhere else? Get back to work.