tesla motors

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sat Feb 27, 2016 10:21 am

Move to Colorado. We have an additional $6k credit, and it's refundable.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:18 am

Zaxxon wrote:Move to Colorado. We have an additional $6k credit, and it's refundable.

I'd recommend just holding onto the $6k and not refunding the government.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sat Feb 27, 2016 11:19 am

Har har har. Seriously though, a new Leaf at $13.5k off is a deal.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Sat Feb 27, 2016 1:12 pm

stessier wrote:And, having just started my taxes, I see I won't be able to get the full benefit. That kind of stinks. I mean, Yay - I don't owe 7500! Boo - the Volt is more expensive. I'm sad.

Your total tax obligation is less than $7500? Just to be clear, it is not that you have to owe that much in April. Even if the govt owes you $2k in april, that can be bumped up to $9.5k as long as you paid in $9.5k in federal income tax.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sat Feb 27, 2016 2:59 pm

coopasonic wrote:
stessier wrote:And, having just started my taxes, I see I won't be able to get the full benefit. That kind of stinks. I mean, Yay - I don't owe 7500! Boo - the Volt is more expensive. I'm sad.
Your total tax obligation is less than $7500? Just to be clear, it is not that you have to owe that much in April. Even if the govt owes you $2k in april, that can be bumped up to $9.5k as long as you paid in $9.5k in federal income tax.

Yeah, I understand. I paid ~8k and I'm getting back $2100. My federal tax this year is ~5900 - not counting medicare and medicaid of course. 2 kids, mortgage interest & PMI, an HSA, and a decently funded 401k can really wipe out some income liability.

So if I've read everything right, the best I can hope for is $5900 back for the Volt - which is nothing to sneeze at, but it means I'll pay $1600 more than I'd prefer.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sat Feb 27, 2016 3:12 pm

Sounds right to me, unless you have any further income you want to realize this year to take advantage.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:07 pm

It looks like Massachusetts has an additional $2,500 credit on top of the federal $7,500 credit? Do I then need to owe over $2,500 in state taxes in order to claim that full credit?

Man, I really wish this made sense, but even with those tax credits it looks like a model S would cost ~ $45,000, which is crazy. I also assume that it would cost a fortune to insure the car as well.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:09 pm

El Guapo wrote:Man, I really wish this made sense, but even with those tax credits it looks like a model S would cost ~ $45,000, which is crazy. I also assume that it would cost a fortune to insure the car as well.

But the Model S is sooo awesome.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:11 pm

Oh wait, realized that the credits are available for hybrids as well. This might merit some research - I wonder what the cheapest car is that I could get the full $10,000 in credits for.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:11 pm

coopasonic wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Man, I really wish this made sense, but even with those tax credits it looks like a model S would cost ~ $45,000, which is crazy. I also assume that it would cost a fortune to insure the car as well.
But the Model S is sooo awesome.

I mean, it better be for $45,000.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:21 pm

El Guapo wrote:
coopasonic wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Man, I really wish this made sense, but even with those tax credits it looks like a model S would cost ~ $45,000, which is crazy. I also assume that it would cost a fortune to insure the car as well.
But the Model S is sooo awesome.
I mean, it better be for $45,000.

The cheapest Model S (new) is $70k. After tax credits you're looking at $60k in MA. Where are you getting $45k?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:29 pm

Zaxxon wrote:
El Guapo wrote:
coopasonic wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Man, I really wish this made sense, but even with those tax credits it looks like a model S would cost ~ $45,000, which is crazy. I also assume that it would cost a fortune to insure the car as well.
But the Model S is sooo awesome.
I mean, it better be for $45,000.
The cheapest Model S (new) is $70k. After tax credits you're looking at $60k in MA. Where are you getting $45k?

Ahhh, I see. I was getting a $55,000 price from the Tesla website and then knocking off $10,000 in credits, but now that I went back and checked that $55,000 sticker price that the website was showing is counting both the federal credit and "estimated gas savings over five years."

Well, not like I was going to buy it anyway.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:35 pm

Yeah, I don't like the way they lay the price out on their site. Misleading IMO.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:42 pm

...and last time I looked I wouldn't want it with anything less than $10k in options. That's my fear for the Model 3 also... not that I will ever get one, but I still dare to dream.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:46 pm

coopasonic wrote:...and last time I looked I wouldn't want it with anything less than $10k in options. That's my fear for the Model 3 also... not that I will ever get one, but I still dare to dream.

It's a near-100% safe bet that if you want a Model 3 before 2019, you will need to order it with $10k or greater in options. That's how Tesla's always rolled. Even today, 5+ months after 'launch' of the Model X, they are only building P90Ds. No 90Ds or 70Ds for a few more months. I'm sure the Model 3 will have a performance version and/or bigger battery option, and that's what will ship first.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:04 pm

That would be a good way to get me to keep my current car longer.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:17 pm

coopasonic wrote:That would be a good way to get me to keep my current car longer.

Yep. It's also an understandable policy for a cash-strapped expanding company like Tesla. But I don't have to like it.

I wants me a Model 3, too!

Any of you planning to plunk down $1k at the end of this month to get a spot in line for a Model 3?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:18 pm

El Guapo wrote:Oh wait, realized that the credits are available for hybrids as well. This might merit some research - I wonder what the cheapest car is that I could get the full $10,000 in credits for.

The Volt I think is the cheapest. I don't know what your state does, but for federal it is based on battery size and there is nothing between the C-Max/Prius of the world and the Volts/Teslas.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:21 pm

stessier wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Oh wait, realized that the credits are available for hybrids as well. This might merit some research - I wonder what the cheapest car is that I could get the full $10,000 in credits for.
The Volt I think is the cheapest. I don't know what your state does, but for federal it is based on battery size and there is nothing between the C-Max/Prius of the world and the Volts/Teslas.

The Leaf is cheaper than the Volt, right?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:24 pm

Zaxxon wrote:
stessier wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Oh wait, realized that the credits are available for hybrids as well. This might merit some research - I wonder what the cheapest car is that I could get the full $10,000 in credits for.
The Volt I think is the cheapest. I don't know what your state does, but for federal it is based on battery size and there is nothing between the C-Max/Prius of the world and the Volts/Teslas.
The Leaf is cheaper than the Volt, right?

You're right - $29.5k vs $33k-ish

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:48 pm

stessier wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:
stessier wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Oh wait, realized that the credits are available for hybrids as well. This might merit some research - I wonder what the cheapest car is that I could get the full $10,000 in credits for.
The Volt I think is the cheapest. I don't know what your state does, but for federal it is based on battery size and there is nothing between the C-Max/Prius of the world and the Volts/Teslas.
The Leaf is cheaper than the Volt, right?
You're right - $29.5k vs $33k-ish

Are they both Civic / Carolla sized?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:52 pm

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:52 pm

Cargo space:

Nissan Leaf: 24-30 cubic feet (back seats folded down)
Chevy Volt: 11 cubic feet
Toyota Carolla: 13 cubic feet
Honda Civic: 15 cubic feet

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:07 pm

Also, the Leaf is all electric and only gets about 80 mpc. It works for some people, but it's still pretty niche. I'm curious about the Bolt, although I'd never be able to afford/allowed to buy it.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:11 pm

107 this year. Still likely <100 real world.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:21 pm

Zaxxon wrote:Any of you planning to plunk down $1k at the end of this month to get a spot in line for a Model 3?

I am seriously considering. It looks like it is fully refundable. If that is true, I would like a place in line.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:22 pm

Unions. Unions never change:

At least 100 workers at the construction site for Tesla Motors Inc.’s battery factory near Reno, Nevada, walked off the job Monday to protest use of workers from other states, a union official said.

Local labor leaders are upset that Tesla contractor Brycon Corp. is bringing in workers from Arizona and New Mexico, said Todd Koch, president of the Building and Construction Trades Council of Northern Nevada.
...
Construction work at the $5 billion, 10-million-square-foot factory has been proceeding ahead of schedule. Tesla said in an e-mailed statement that the nonunion contractor involved in the dispute Monday, which it didn’t identify by name, is using more than 50 percent Nevada workers and that more than 75 percent of the factory workforce is residents of that state. Tesla didn’t say how the walkout is affecting work at the site.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 3:26 pm

coopasonic wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:Any of you planning to plunk down $1k at the end of this month to get a spot in line for a Model 3?
I am seriously considering. It looks like it is fully refundable. If that is true, I would like a place in line.

The deposits are refundable, although what I've read from S and X depositors, it can take 30-90 days to receive your money back once you request it. We're also seriously considering a deposit. If sales take off like Tesla hopes, waiting around could lead to waiting a year or more after first deliveries, and potentially seeing Tesla hit the 200k vehicle limit for the full tax credit.

Xmann · Post by **Xmann** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:47 pm

Zaxxon wrote:
coopasonic wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:Any of you planning to plunk down $1k at the end of this month to get a spot in line for a Model 3?
I am seriously considering. It looks like it is fully refundable. If that is true, I would like a place in line.
The deposits are refundable, although what I've read from S and X depositors, it can take 30-90 days to receive your money back once you request it. We're also seriously considering a deposit. If sales take off like Tesla hopes, waiting around could lead to waiting a year or more after first deliveries, and potentially seeing Tesla hit the 200k vehicle limit for the full tax credit.

I'm considering it. Wife needs a new car and we were considering a Lexus. Love a Tesla though.

Xmann · Post by **Xmann** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 4:55 pm

Any difference in making a deposit March 31 in store or April 1 online?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:01 pm

Xmann wrote:Any difference in making a deposit March 31 in store or April 1 online?

It seems like Musk tweeted those dates but no one else in the company has a clue how it'll play out yet. I've made a couple inquiries and haven't gotten any good responses. I've been debating hitting the mall that morning to see what I can see, but I'm not sure it's worth it. The only real benefit would be to be closer to the front of the line, and given initial quality issues with both S and X, I'm not sure I want to be at the very front.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:54 pm

Zaxxon wrote:107 this year. Still likely <100 real world.

I read that Chevy will soon introduce the Bolt, an all-electric car that gets 200 mpc and is only priced a little higher than a Volt. Battery technology doesn't follow Moore's Law but it does advance steadily by around 5-7% per year...which adds up over five or more years. 'Course, knowing that always makes the current tech generation a little less appealing.

BTW I read that in a magazine article that was 6 months old so excuse me if the Bolt is already a thing.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:21 pm

The Bolt will arrive toward the end of 2016 if GM hits its estimates. My issues with the Bolt are numerous:

1) GM is making it. They're on my shit list due to the extended we-knew-about-it-but-only-some-people-are-dying-so-let's-wait-this-out ignition switch fiasco and their continuing shenanigans against Tesla's direct-sales model. Last week they were behind a bill in Indiana to kill Tesla's ability to sell sans dealer, and today they're in CT on a similar mission to quash Tesla being allowed in that state.

2) It's built on the same platform as the Chevy Sonic, a car that starts < $15,000. The Bolt will be about $37,500 before incentives. Granted there are other upgrades inside the Bolt that the Sonic won't have, but unlike the Model 3 the Bolt is at its heart a cheap ICE vehicle made expensive by its EV powertrain. It's not a car built to be an EV from the ground up. We'll see how this plays out once the 3 is revealed, but I don't really believe that the Bolt will truly compete with the Model 3. It'll be in the ballpark of the 3's starting price, but I don't expect its performance or amenities to match Tesla's.

3) GM isn't doing much on the charging network front, which is an indicator to me that they aren't necessarily committed to this whole EV thing. It's a chicken-and-egg problem, and Tesla is tackling it. Given GM's past with the EV1, I'm not yet convinced that GM's serious. I wouldn't be surprised if the Bolt launches without a nationwide charging network, GM makes it in relatively small quantities, and then they kill it or throw shade on their self-fulfilling prophecy because 'people don't want EVs, see?'

Scraper · Post by **Scraper** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:22 am

I saw my first parking lot charging station in Ohio the other day. They are in a multilevel parking garage in downtown Akron. This surprised me since I don't see a ton of all electric cars in Ohio. But all 6 stations had a car charging. The more we see of this type of thing the better. Especially in Midwestern states.

telcta · Post by **telcta** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:48 am

Scraper wrote:I saw my first parking lot charging station in Ohio the other day. They are in a multilevel parking garage in downtown Akron. This surprised me since I don't see a ton of all electric cars in Ohio. But all 6 stations had a car charging. The more we see of this type of thing the better. Especially in Midwestern states.

That's great to hear. I usually have open spots where I go but it's increasingly becoming more popular around where I live.

I use Plug Share to look for charging stations. You can add stations that aren't in their database as well as upload pictures of the area. Some people offer their own home electricity for EV drivers to plug in.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 10:56 am

PlugShare is great.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:43 am

Does anyone have a Chevy Volt? My main interest in this is that my 2008 Honda Civic is *starting* to get a little long in the tooth (IIRC we recently crossed 100,000 miles), and so among other things I expect that the maintenance costs are likely to spike soon-ish, and this seems like potentially a good way to get a relatively affordable new car with lower gas costs.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:45 am

stessier wrote:Also, the Leaf is all electric and only gets about 80 mpc. It works for some people, but it's still pretty niche. I'm curious about the Bolt, although I'd never be able to afford/allowed to buy it.

To be clear, if you drove it 81 miles without charging it would die and you'd be stuck on the road? I guess you would have to get it towed to an electric charging station?

Really hard to see how that would be feasible. It'd be fine for a regular commute, but the in-laws are 60ish miles away, my sister is ~ 130 miles...

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:45 am

I don't have one but have read that the redesigned version this year has much better interior space and is all-around much better than the original (which makes sense since the prior iteration was breaking new ground).

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Mar 02, 2016 11:49 am

Paingod wrote:Cargo space:

Nissan Leaf: 24-30 cubic feet (back seats folded down)
Chevy Volt: 11 cubic feet
Toyota Carolla: 13 cubic feet
Honda Civic: 15 cubic feet

The main issue is that being four people in my family now the Civic is fine, just a little tight-ish. I don't feel the need to get a mini-van or SUV or anything, but I was leaning towards getting a more mid-sized sedan (probably the Accord) next car. Not sure yet whether there's a reasonably affordable mid-sized sedan PHEV model...