Octopus Overlords

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:58 am**

noxiousdog wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Calling for the masons and seers to expose themselves to nightdeath from the vampires does not seem prudent to me.
It's too late for that.

Either shit or get off the pot.

Is this a call for a vote from me?

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:03 am**

Chaosraven wrote: As I have stated above, I will have to maintain my questioning status based on the information I have received. I do not require explanation of my interpretation of what has gone on behind the scenes.

As I am fond of saying:

It takes two thieves to strike an honest bargain.
Of course I trust you... now cut the cards.

Whatever possiblities and permutations exist are there for a reason... the odds are better that we have this game well in hand. But at the risk of losing the entire village playing the odds?

Never bet more than you can afford to lose.

You go ahead and trust me, but I'll be watching all of you for the nonce.

I hear you talking. I've provided you with all kinds of info. I'm a mason. I can get you in contact with a 2nd if you prove worthy. The seer trusts grund.

Your turn.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:05 am**

Chaosraven wrote:
noxiousdog wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Calling for the masons and seers to expose themselves to nightdeath from the vampires does not seem prudent to me.
It's too late for that.

Either shit or get off the pot.
Is this a call for a vote from me?

Nope. It's a call for the 'real' masons or 'real' seers' to quite being cowards and instead build a circle of trust.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:15 am**

Chaosraven wrote:Unfortunately for those of us who have not been contacted by the seer, are not masons, and are not vampires, there is one small flaw in that logic.

The possibility exists that the "seer" is in fact a vampire playing the villagers he contacted...

Pretend for a moment that you're a Seer. You regard noxiousdog as trustworthy, because if he's not, there are two Masons on hand who can definitively prove him false, yet no such Masons have stepped forward.

As a Seer who regards noxiousdog as trustworthy, you hear nox call upon all Seers to PM him. What do you do? You must realize that it's possible he'll hear from a Vampire posing as a Seer. You must also realize that he'll be at risk of deception if only that pseudo-Seer is in touch with him. You realize that the only way to ensure that noxiousdog isn't duped is for both Seers to contact him. You don't know the other Seer. However, you do know what you must do: if you have no reason to doubt Noxiousdog, then you must reveal yourself to him. Otherwise, the misinformation flowing from the fake Seer's deceptions will cancel out whatever limited benefit arises from your uncoordinated night visions.

If noxiousdog had heard from only one Seer, there would be a lingering question; but surely neither Seer would let that happen. noxiousdog must've heard either from two Seers (both authentic) or from three or more Seers (all but two inauthentic).

noxiousdog trusts the report of a vision that the Seer delivered. Can you guess how many Seers contacted noxiousdog?

Here's an independent line of reasoning based on the ruleset. The only person who could have pretended to be a Seer was the Alpha, since the Alpha was the only vampire at that time. The Alpha must've realized that once his pretense was exposed, he'd be killed. With several Vampires at the start of the game, one might be so bold as to take that risk. Would a Vampire flying solo take that risk, knowing that the two real Seers would also be stepping up?

You see, when you pretend you're a Seer and think through the duties of that role, it's clear that the Seer whom noxiousdog trusts isn't a Vampire (unless a Seer failed to step up and is playing the game all alone

).

...but the vampires have managed to keep the masons silent based on the "we're not exposing ourselves just to out a guy we know isn't a mason"

What other purpose do the Masons serve, than to expose imposters and establish trust? They have no special powers.

As a normal villager with no abilities, I would love to be added to the good guy voting block

As a normal villager with no abilities, you would be....

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:16 am**

Once again I say that you have no reason to provoke them if you are who you say you are other than to expose them.

If they are lying, and you are a mason, they will have given themselves away. This lines up well with Grunds request for PMs from the vampires.

If you are lying, and are in fact not a mason, the seer is not going to be able to tell as both vampires and masons look alike to him.

I doubt anyone else is going to expose their role in this game in public posting, as I does not serve their purpose. The real villagers can continue to talk behind the scenes without exposing themselves.

Please note before this "erupts" into a ridiculous feud over your Mason role I am not saying you aren't... please everyone, understand I am not stating an opinion or fact that Grund Nox and their buddies are playing the game and misleading you.

I *am* stating possibiliies and trying to make sense of what has happened and will happen.

Let me put this another way.

Lynch mob voting serves the purpose of the vampires... there are fewer of them than there are of us. Discussion, both open and private, with the most informed vote possible suits the villagers, as we are bound to make mistakes, but let's not rush headlong into our own collective death.

I am willing to state for the record, both here and in private, that I am a normal villager with no abilities.

The vampires already know this. The seers can confirm this.

Unfortunately the rest of you cannot be sure of it.

But if the vampires eat me I will have served my purpose... one less kill of someone with an ability that we will need to defeat them.

And if the rest of my fellow villagers lynch me, I will also have protected our empowered allies.

I do NOT require FVH protection... I do not fear death for I am strong in my conviction that I am a common expendable grunt and willingly give my own life to save one of ours.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:28 am**

Well, you certainly sound innocent. I guess if you were a vampire, though, you'd be counting on:

1. The Seer not bothering to 'waste' a vision on you, therefore allowing you to continue your nocturnal activities; and

2. The FVH not bothering with you either (not that you'd need protection, if you were a vampire).

Methinks the raven of chaos doth protest too much!

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:30 am**

Grundbegriff wrote: Pretend for a moment that you're a Seer. You regard noxiousdog as trustworthy, because if he's not, there are two Masons on hand who can definitively prove him false, yet no such Masons have stepped forward.

As a Seer who regards noxiousdog as trustworthy, you hear nox call upon all Seers to PM him. What do you do? You must realize that it's possible he'll hear from a Vampire posing as a Seer.

If both seers contact him then he has the identities of our block builders.
Which is obscenely dangerous if he was a vampire, and they cannot tell if he is.

I agree that a fake seer contacting him would have to be the Alpha, assuming that the Betas were unaware of their imminent change. That would not serve the Alpha well at all.

Lets not forget that the seers in this game are severly devalued... they cannot find vampires... they only find innocents.

To my way of thinking, in *this* game the masons are more powerful as they automatically have an ally to discuss openly and honestly the game.

Remember that no matter what I claim, the *ONLY* ones who can identify me as innocent are the seers. I could even be lying to deceive the vampires... will they waste their kill on a peon?

All I ask is that the villagers take the time allowed, *ALL* the time allowed, to think their decisions through. Don't be in a hurry, listen to everyones opinions, and for our villages sake try to remember your silence can only hurt us.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:42 am**

Chaosraven wrote:If both seers contact him then he has the identities of our block builders. Which is obscenely dangerous if he was a vampire, and they cannot tell if he is.

Sure they can. The calculation is simple: either noxiousdog is 100% trustworthy and a Mason or the real Masons are idio^H^H^H^Htactically challenged. If the latter is true, and noxiousdog is a mole, then the Village has unquestionably lost the game.

Lets not forget that the seers in this game are severly devalued... they cannot find vampires... they only find innocents.

It's amazing how much power a Seer has when the Seer is in an alliance where the identities of all the Specials are known with confidence....

To my way of thinking, in *this* game the masons are more powerful as they automatically have an ally to discuss openly and honestly the game.

You're right about that. One could argue that a Masonic pair is too imbalancing when the V team starts with one member, since the V cannot pretend to be a Mason without exposing his true identity.

take the time allowed, *ALL* the time allowed, to think their decisions through. Don't be in a hurry, listen to everyones opinions, and for our villages sake try to remember your silence can only hurt us.

Trying to forestall a rush to judgment against J.D.?

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:14 am**

Not at all.

JD to me qualifies as a cross between guilty behavior and too quiet by half.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:15 am**

Chaosraven wrote:Not at all.

JD to me qualifies as a cross between guilty behavior and too quiet by half.

So would you vote for him?

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:20 am**

Mark wrote:Well, you certainly sound innocent. I guess if you were a vampire, though, you'd be counting on:

1. The Seer not bothering to 'waste' a vision on you, therefore allowing you to continue your nocturnal activities; and

2. The FVH not bothering with you either (not that you'd need protection, if you were a vampire).

Methinks the raven of chaos doth protest too much!

Ha!

Think about that for a second... and stay with me here...

Re: 1. I welcome the chance to be vindicated by a seer, as I wish to help the village. Seer away. If I were a vampire I'd be screwed and handed over for staking within the day as I have come out as 100% normal. I can't even pretend to have an ability.

Re: 2. What could the FVH do for me? Keep me alive that someone we might actually need get killed? Please don't. If I were vampire all you do is lose a turn of protection as I wasn't going to be killed anyway. As I am a nonpowered villager, your efforts would be better spent protecting the Mason or the Seer or someone already hooked up with the Seer... keep the voting block alive!

Protest too much? Pfeh.

I refuse to cringe and crawl and plead for my worthless life... I am here but for one purpose... I am a bullet sponge. One of the crowd that is willing to die for my brethren.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:21 am**

What I actually do is talk too much.

Out loud.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:37 am**

Chaosraven wrote:What I actually do is talk too much.

Out loud.

Would. You. Vote. For. Him?

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:40 am**

noxiousdog wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Not at all.

JD to me qualifies as a cross between guilty behavior and too quiet by half.
So would you vote for him?

Why not?

JD certainly fits my parameters for suspicion

(yes, that's a vote)

Others do as well, so don't be surprised if I change it based on other peoples opinions and info.

See, I am certainly to be killed or lynched in this game.

If you want to think of Grund as the wise old sage in the village, think of me as the village idiot. The jester. The guy who doesn't know enough to keep his mouth shut.

I am not in this game to stay alive, as much fun as that would be, I am in this to see my side win.

If the wolves eat me, it helps the villagers.
If the wolves don't eat me, I get to continue my crusade to make people think.

If the village lynches me, at least we will have spared one of the empowered ones.
If the village doesn't lynch me, I will try to help and root out the bad guys with every possible variable.

I am not omnipotent, hell, I'm barely sentient, but if I can point out the things that make you think, perhaps one of the thousand things I point out will bring up what you might have overlooked... and yes, I have been, can be, and will continue to be wrong about a great many things.

But it only took one to point out the Emperor had no clothes on without fear of retaliation.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:42 am**

(poor nox... it's like pulling teeth, isn't it?)

I don't mean to be difficult or stupid, just the way I'm configured.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:54 am**

Grundbegriff wrote:
Our friendly neighborhood alleged Mason, noxiousdog, endorsed me. Therefore, to believe that I am a Vamp, you must also believe one of two things: either noxiousdog is a Vamp, or the Seer with whom noxiousdog consulted before endorsing me is a Vamp.

Hang on... Nox... are you basing the Trust in Grund because a "seer" told you?

As far as the seers are concerned, they are not in contact with other, right?

So assuming one seered Grund, the other doesn't know that.

Assuming neither of them did, they still won't know that until they are in communication with each other. And how long will that take?

Hmmmm... now I *am* worried.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:58 am**

Let me (mis)quote Dork Tower here:

Well how do we know that Gandalf was tough?
He defeated the Balrog!

And how do we know the Balrog was tough?
Well he... fought Gandalf.

Hmmm. Spiral logic wherein the next "proof" is based on the assumption that the step prior is rock-solid.

See what I mean? I'm an idiot... Guess Grunds logic is just too concrete for me to actually poke holes in, just gotta speculate and nitpick every little detail.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:22 am**

If you are on this list, I would love to hear any thoughts in PM you would like to share or discuss out of the public eye

pr0ner
Mr. Bubbles
Leigh
Varity
J. D.
Kelric
Setaside
noxiousdog
Grundbegriff
msteelers
Orinoco
Mark

(and before you go looking to figure out who's not on this list, they are Crux, ChrisGrenard, and Chaosraven... either Dead or Me... the dead can't talk and if I get started talking to myself you guys won't hear from me for a week as I try to get a word in edgewise)

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:40 am**

Chaosraven wrote:If you are on this list, I would love to hear any thoughts in PM you would like to share or discuss out of the public eye

What's wrong with the public eye?

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:41 am**

Why do I get the feeling that I'm being played like a badly strung harp?

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:51 am**

noxiousdog wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:If you are on this list, I would love to hear any thoughts in PM you would like to share or discuss out of the public eye
What's wrong with the public eye?

Honestly? I think people are willing to send a PM with more honesty in it than in front of the entire class. Call it stage fright, call it intimate, call it what you will...

Plus people can always claim they didn't say "that" in some imaginary PM as compared to having to suspiciously edit a post (and no, Grund that wasn't a dig at you... I edit as well).

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:55 am**

Chaosraven wrote:
noxiousdog wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:If you are on this list, I would love to hear any thoughts in PM you would like to share or discuss out of the public eye
What's wrong with the public eye?
Honestly? I think people are willing to send a PM with more honesty in it than in front of the entire class. Call it stage fright, call it intimate, call it what you will...

Plus people can always claim they didn't say "that" in some imaginary PM as compared to having to suspiciously edit a post (and no, Grund that wasn't a dig at you... I edit as well).

Plausible deniability and all that?

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:23 am**

Sure. Pretend for a moment I am a Mason.

My partner, LordMortis PMs me and says WTF? Do we out this guy?
To which I reply, no way... you and I know he's full of it. We wait for a seer to find one of us so we can spread the truth.

Are we willing to question you in front of everyone? Probably not. But are we willing to state in private we don't "think" you're telling the truth? Sure.

Now pretend I'm a Vampire. If everyone else sends a PM, I had better as well so I don't stand out. Once again, here's the "not first, not last, not together" adage regarding pack behavior. Based on that, we can start making "potential groups" lists and observe.

The vote, rescind, revote is a great tactic for the villagers. Quite honestly I am less inclined to be wary of the ones who seem to float with the current than the one who sticks to their meaningless vote. That being said, I don't endorse letting quiet people, wishywashy people, or bloodthirsty people live based on nothing else.

I think everyone needs to follow their brains and hearts, and pay attention. The liar needs to lie again to cover up a lie. The true master of "lies" does it through omission... by NOT lying, just not stating things that shouldn't be said.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:30 am**

triggercut wrote:Ok players, we have the first casualty of my "I know all the rules to this game, they're right up here" (taps noggin) style.

I borrowed the concept of the Fearless Vampire Hunter from a discussion in the meta ww thread. The idea was always that the FVH could protect one player each day, but once he'd protected a player on a given day, that player was ineligible to be protected beyond that in the game. So, if Bob the FVH protects Mary, the innocent villager on night 1, Mary cannot be protected again during the game.

Sadly, I didn't explicitly spell that out in the rules to the general populace, so we have a problem.

I never intended for the FVH to focus his protection on one player and leave it in place the entire game; I think that unbalances the game completely in favor of the villagers. Unfortunately, I didn't say as much, or in detail in the rules.

So here's what we'll do. There were 15 players with a dog in this hunt at the start. I'll take votes via PM between now and Monday, 3pm EDT. Vote "Yes" if you think the FVH can only protect each player one night; vote "No" if you think he should be allowed to protect a player over and over again.

Sorry for the confusion!

I asked you about this here.

Since you didn't mention any in your reply I assumed that there weren't any.

So my answer would be:

NO, there should be no restrictions on the FVHs powers. I sent you the same answer in a PM, as you requested.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:30 am**

Chaosraven wrote:Sure. Pretend for a moment I am a Mason.

My partner, LordMortis PMs me and says WTF? Do we out this guy?
To which I reply, no way... you and I know he's full of it. We wait for a seer to find one of us so we can spread the truth.

A Seer can't find you and spread the truth. To a seer you look exactly the same.

Are we willing to question you in front of everyone? Probably not. But are we willing to state in private we don't "think" you're telling the truth? Sure.

Of course. Because then they only hear your side of the story.

Now pretend I'm a Vampire. If everyone else sends a PM, I had better as well so I don't stand out. Once again, here's the "not first, not last, not together" adage regarding pack behavior. Based on that, we can start making "potential groups" lists and observe.

The vote, rescind, revote is a great tactic for the villagers. Quite honestly I am less inclined to be wary of the ones who seem to float with the current than the one who sticks to their meaningless vote. That being said, I don't endorse letting quiet people, wishywashy people, or bloodthirsty people live based on nothing else.

I think everyone needs to follow their brains and hearts, and pay attention. The liar needs to lie again to cover up a lie. The true master of "lies" does it through omission... by NOT lying, just not stating things that shouldn't be said.

It's tough to lie when it's a matter of public record. Just sayin'

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 6:36 am**

noxiousdog wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:
A Seer can't find you and spread the truth. To a seer you look exactly the same.

PRECISELY

And if they speak up in public, who's telling the truth?

There's no verification process for anything other than an innocent.

So the Masons (out in public or behind closed ocnference doors) have to put faith into someone who claims to be the seer.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 8:47 am**

I think I can quite safely say that at this point in the game I have no idea what the hell is going on. People I thought were suspect are starting to look pretty innocent right now. Conversely, some that I trusted are looking a little...undead.

I don't trust Grund: He's selective in his information, and plays to individual players' egos. He's also threatened me in the past. Bad Grund!

I don't trust noxiousdog: he backs Grund too closely. But I find it hard to imagine both of them as vampires, because they've been working together right from the start (ie before the Betas knew they were Betas. However, this scenario works if either was the Alpha, and drew the other into their sphere of influence.

I don't trust Chaosraven: he offers to be scanned by the seer, offers information in PMs that could be damaging to his chances of survival, yet still bares his chest and demands to be made a Scooby Snack. Something doesn't sound right.

I don't trust Setaside: he has avoided commiting to one way or another, and his PMs are...difficult to independently verify.

I don't trust J.D, Leigh, Kelric et al: quiet ones make me nervous. Either get into the game, or get hung.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:56 am**

Chaosraven wrote:
noxiousdog wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:
A Seer can't find you and spread the truth. To a seer you look exactly the same.
PRECISELY

And if they speak up in public, who's telling the truth?

There's no verification process for anything other than an innocent.

So the Masons (out in public or behind closed ocnference doors) have to put faith into someone who claims to be the seer.

The seers CAN'T speak in public. But the masons (or at least one of them) CAN. All that had to happen was ONE mason speaking up in public to cast doubt on the other. All of a sudden the trust the first mason built is shattered to pieces. That's all it would have taken. But it would have had to happen the first night.

But it didn't so trust was allowed to be cemented in Nox the first night. As Grund said, it Nox is not a mason, we are SCREWED. And it's the fault of the true masons.

I'm going to post my response to your PM publicly. I have nothing to hide. You've been asking why I think Nox trusts Grund. Here's my response:

Because Nox has had 2 seers, no more no less, come forward claiming to be seers. One of those seers cleared Grund the first night.

At this point in the game, it doesn't make sense for the seers to keep quiet. I think Nox has done enough to establish trust in himself. Don't you? No other mason has stepped forward. All it would have taken was one true mason to step forward to call into doubt Nox's role playing the same game Nox did with the secret word for the partner mason. If they had done that, trust in Nox would have been cast into doubt. None did. If the true mason is still out there, then we are fucked. Royally. The true masons allowed the rest of the village to establish trust in somebody untrustworthy. I don't think that would happen so it stands to reason that Nox is true.

The same thing applies to the seers. Both seers contacted Nox once they trusted him. Nox said this publicly. He also asked any other seers to come forward now. Apparently none did. So it stands to reason that if you trust Nox, then you should trust that the seers that contacted him are true. Same logic applies here, if the true seers have not contacted Nox as yet, then I think we as a village are screwed. We've established a trust in people that isn't warranted and the true seers let it happen. I don't think that this would happen so I have to trust that the seers are who they say they are.

Nox posted that one of the seers verified Grund's identity as a villager. If you trust that Nox is who he says is, then it stands to reason that Grund is in fact innocent.

I think this worked so well because it was done on the first night when all but 1 thought that they were a plain villager. If they had known that they were a beta they would have come forward and made a claim to sow confusion. Nobody did so Nox was able to cement trust early on and from the sounds of it build an almost fully trusted circle of 7 after the first night. That's impressive and either the greatest starting turn in a game of vampire/werewolf this forum has seen or the greatest deception.

I'm naive and am choosing to believe the former.

Now I'm either the other scanned innocent from the first night (since they haven't publicy said who) in which case a PM would be nice or I'm still unscanned. Hello? Guys? I can vote just as well as you guys can.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:05 am**

Mark wrote: I don't trust Grund: He's selective in his information, and plays to individual players' egos. He's also threatened me in the past. Bad Grund!

I don't trust noxiousdog: he backs Grund too closely. But I find it hard to imagine both of them as vampires, because they've been working together right from the start (ie before the Betas knew they were Betas. However, this scenario works if either was the Alpha, and drew the other into their sphere of influence.

Are you accusing us of cheating? And you wonder why we limit our information to you?

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:14 am**

Mark wrote:I don't trust Setaside: he has avoided commiting to one way or another, and his PMs are...difficult to independently verify.

Grund has, wrongly or rightly, cast suspicion on you. I'm sorry if I'm avoiding a commitment to you one way or another at this point. Until I can be included on the inside web of information, I'm hesitant to trust anybody except for Nox and Grund for the reasons I've stated above.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:19 am**

Mark wrote:Come on, people - let's get those accusations flying!

Kelric - why are you being so quiet?

Because I was at a party all day yesterday and out bar hopping Saturday night. Damn that social life getting in the way of posting!

Plus I'm not posting a lot as Grund and Nox seem to be doing all the work for us villagers. And maybe a change in strategy might keep me alive or get me killed. We'll see.

JD works for me. If he isn't a vampire, then Grund and Nox have some explaining to do.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:22 am**

I wonder if Im just being kept in the dark, but msteelers has been viritually non existent and no one talks about him... I feel like a mushroom kept in the dark and feed you know what....

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:30 am**

Mr Bubbles wrote:I wonder if Im just being kept in the dark, but msteelers has been viritually non existent and no one talks about him... I feel like a mushroom kept in the dark and feed you know what....

I think it's Labor Day weekend and we should cut some slack to everybody who is quiet until Tuesday rolls around.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 10:33 am**

setaside wrote:
Mr Bubbles wrote:I wonder if Im just being kept in the dark, but msteelers has been viritually non existent and no one talks about him... I feel like a mushroom kept in the dark and feed you know what....
I think it's Labor Day weekend and we should cut some slack to everybody who is quiet until Tuesday rolls around.

Im talking about from the beginning.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:33 am**

I cannot understand how anyone can seriously dispute noxiousdogs masonhood. Therefore, the village has to follow his advice, whatever that may be.

He asks to vote for JD, so I'll have to do that.

JD should be lynched.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:59 am**

Mr Bubbles wrote:
setaside wrote:
Mr Bubbles wrote:I wonder if Im just being kept in the dark, but msteelers has been viritually non existent and no one talks about him... I feel like a mushroom kept in the dark and feed you know what....
I think it's Labor Day weekend and we should cut some slack to everybody who is quiet until Tuesday rolls around.
Im talking about from the beginning.

Yeah sorry. My post came across kinda snotty. It wasn't meant that way. Just that this weekend is a busy one for lots of people.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:06 pm**

Varity wrote:I cannot understand how anyone can seriously dispute noxiousdogs masonhood. Therefore, the village has to follow his advice, whatever that may be.

He asks to vote for JD, so I'll have to do that.

JD should be lynched.

I'm not doubting Nox's masonhood. I am however wanting to wait to hear more from JD before casting a vote for him. Grund's logic seems solid but there's also a bit of jump to the final conclusion that JD's a vamp. I'm not ready to fully buy into it just yet.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:07 pm**

Grundbegriff: Lynch JD
noxiousdog: Lynch JD
Varity: Lynch JD
Kelric: Lynch JD
Mr. Bubbles: No vote
setaside: No vote
Mark: No vote
pr0ner: No vote
msteelers: No vote
Chaosraven: No vote
Leigh: No vote
Orinoco: No vote
J. D.: No vote

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:11 pm**

Wow. It looks like my post last night has landed me in some trouble. Unfortunately I do not posess the same type of smarts as Grund and as such, should have realized that posting anything would have him analyze it to such an extent that I would appear guilty.

In reality, my post was nothing more to air out my thoughts, and yes I repeated old strategies because I have nothing new to go on. I'll be honest and admit I don't follow or understand the logic nox and Grund have been using. It's gotten way too deep for me to follow with any real comprehension.

I feel bad that I've led you all to believe I'm a vampire. I can assure you that I'm not. I may not understand your logic for lynching me, but I'll respect your right to do so!

As for chaosraven's point about me being both too quiet and too noisy, that is easy to explain. It's been a busy weekend, I've been gone from home for 12 hours or more at a time. When I get back I make posts like the one I did last night to let people know I'm still around and to "think out loud". Grund analyzed and found something weird about it. Don't as me what it was though.

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2006 12:49 pm**

Here's a test of your sincerity, J.D.: Suppose for the sake of argument that we gave you reason to think Chaosraven was a Vampire. Would you then join us in voting against him?

Octopus Overlords

[WW] Fright Night! (The village wins!)

Cripes, doesn't this guy ever shut up?

Re: Cripes, doesn't this guy ever shut up?

Re: Cripes, doesn't this guy ever shut up?

Re: Cripes, doesn't this guy ever shut up?