STARSHIP R.SCOTT (WW Game) - Game Over.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 4:48 pm

Remus West wrote:I stand by my original pick of Grundbegriff as the remaining Alien.

Interesting. How do you figure?

Remus West wrote:I think Lagom Lite is the Symbiont.

I'm starting to think you are.

Remus West wrote:I don't think we should do anything about either one until Theohall is unlocked.

If we lynch Austin today, we can win tomorrow even if the engineers won't unlock any Convict voters, if there is only one alien and he's not locked down. As Chaosraven points out, it all depends on there not being a second alien and not theohall or whomever else Remus decides to freeze tonight.

I don't know if this chance for victory is too far fetched, I'd love to hear some analysis from you guys (deeper than "I think x is y" preferably).

I pose to you the question: How can the Convicts win?

...

New guy side note/off-topic: This paranoia is killing me! I'm enjoying it though, but I might have to check my nerves come winter. I'm sorry for you Crew players, it must be boring as hell to watch this...

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 5:24 pm

STARSHIP R.SCOTT - DAY TWO

Dead Players
Newcastle
Isgrimnur
pr0ner

Locked Down Players
theohall

Living Players:
Sean, Minister of KtSP
Mr Bubbles
Remus West
Grundbegriff
Lagom Lite
Chaosraven
tru1cy
Austin

Majority is 5 votes.

Votes:
Remus West = 3 (Austin, tru1cy, Sean, Minister of KtSP)
Austin - 1 (Lagom Lite)

Players with no vote: Mr Bubbles, Remus West, Grundbegriff, Chaosraven

A majority vote will close voting. If the Day ends without a majority reached no player will be thrown out the airlock.
The HARD Deadline for Day Two is 9:00 pm ET on Monday, October 5, 2009.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Sep 17, 2009 6:13 pm

I posted my thoughts about Grund long long ago. He started the game by making a lot of noise without saying anything. To me that is classic Grund lead into a play. Only this time there was no play but rather a step back and let things happen.

As for you, your initial play to get us to lynch a Corp yesterday, while the correct play, also opened the door for the Symbiont much wider. Then Theohall, at the time your top choice for Alien, gets locked down. Then you embrace the idea of lynching (voted) Austin today after the Engineers said they would not unlock anyone if we lynched Corp. You did not seem overly concerned about unlocking Theohall which worries me (about all of you that don't seem to care if he is locked up or not) as only the Symbiont should really want anyone locked down.

To top it off we have the richly ironic statement

deeper than "I think x is y" preferably

when you have offered us nothing more than that for your suspicions.

I'll answer your question though:
We can win only if Isgrimnur was the Alien Original and the Symbiont misses the convert and we lynch enough Corp to get ahead. Unless Theohall is unlocked and the new victim is unlocked each day. If folks are getting unlocked we have some room to manuver.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:35 am

Reading....

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Sat Sep 19, 2009 4:38 pm

Grundbegriff Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:35 am wrote:Reading....

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 2:39 am

Chaosraven wrote:
Grundbegriff Sat Sep 19, 2009 11:35 am wrote:Reading....

Caught up, finally.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:06 am

First, some miscellaneous observations made in the course of rereading the whole game:

I'm surprised, after we've been playing variants for so long, that a multi-team ruleset with this many interesting characteristics has turned up. Nice work, Scoop!
...
Early on, Lagom Lite claimed: "Grundbegriff is the symbiont. ...He also wants us to hide the engineers." I wanted to correct that error-- not the mistaken claim that I'm the Symbiont, but the mistaken claim that I wanted the Engineers to stay hidden. Remus also floated the notion that I was against the self-disclosure of the Engineers. I'm not sure where that came from. It doesn't follow from the remarks of mine that Remus quoted, and Lagom Lite apparently adopted the idea because Remus had put it forward. For the record, even though it no longer matters: I thought the idea to have the Engineers step forward early, while we could still believe them, was terrific. At no point did I oppose it.
...
Newcastle's blather was highly blathery for the most part. Usually, he rambles in a somewhat more opinionated and relevant way. As Remus noted, Newc seemed to be speaking like one who felt pressure to contribute but hadn't actually read the game up to that point.

Even so, Newcastle did say one extremely interesting thing: "The Alien babies will not know who each other are." The idea is that each convert will learn who the Original is but will not receive a list of the total Alien population.

I found it interesting that nobody picked that up for discussion, however fleeting.
...
After Austin blew Newcastle away, Mr Bubbles lamented thus: "I barely knew you, but I felt like we were somehow brothers." Maybe meaningless fluff, but I thought the "brothers" reference was intriguingly hinty. It could've been a reference to Newc's humanity in general, or more narrowly to his status as a Convict (though I'm not sure Bubbles would've had that in mind right then). It also could have been a bit of hint-dropping in relation to Newcastle's remarks about "The Alien babies" who will have on way to identify one another....
...

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 3:47 am

Second, the more substantive stuff: theohall.

He was completely missing the point here:

theohall wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote:
pr0ner wrote:And I'm voting for you because I think you're alien, not because I think you're a convict.
It doesn't matter to you does it? It's all the same to you corporate scum isn't it? You'd as soon kill your own kind as hunt down the real threat! If we lynch the alien tonight, that means you win tomorrow. If you lynch a convict, you don't win tomorrow but you get an edge.
...The only way any other faction than Crew can win this game is if we avoid lynching an alien today.
So why don't you want the Crew to win when pr0ner is a known Crew member???? Accusing pr0ner seems completely foolish, unless you don't want the Crew to win. We know the remaining alien is one of five people - none of which are pr0ner. Unless your goal is to let the aliens keep multiplying, why not try to kill the only remaining alien?

How is it possible to miss the point in this way unless you haven't thought through the victory conditions and haven't realized that this is a game with more than two teams? All the Corp teamies were known except the Symbiont (who is also a team unto himself), so theohall had to be at least nominally associated with the Convict team -- something a Convict would at least ponder -- and yet theohall was lobbying against his team's interests as if it were simply "Crew" versus "Alien(s)".

Who is it that lacks all interest in (a) his human team, and (b) the human rules, and (c) the math? Usually that's the Alien/Wolf/Baddie.

So theohall made himself look very much like an Alien at that point. The Symbiont, at least, seems to have figured theohall was an Alien, since theohall's in the flash freezer. But maybe things are more complicated than that.

Chaosraven floats the idea of having theohall unleashed and then making theohall the non-Corp target as well: "Unlocking theohall is really only valid today if we intend to throw him into space anyway, in the hopes he is the last Alien". However, Remus objects to this: "I have no intention on voting for Theohall today. He pushed hard to make certain both guards shot yesterday, a position I do not think fits well with his being an Alien. His being locked down means he could not have been converted last night".

To this, we might add theohall's reaction when his own misunderstanding of Lagom Lite's (elegant, correct) Convict plan led him to suspect LL wasn't human: "LL is either the Symbiont or an Alien. This seems to blatantly wrong for him to anything but one of the two." Frothing at the mouth in this way, when all eyes are on you and you're the last guy to sign onto the plan, is hardly the way an Alien ought to act. So Remus is right that there are factors that make theohall look human. (Of course, when theohall finally came around, he explained the 180 by saying "Well reasoned, Remus" in reference to this. But that's weird, since Lagom Lite and others had already laid out the logic of the situation with great clarity. Weird, but probably insignificant; theohall probably just referenced the most recent explanation as convenient shorthand to account for his flip-flop.)

This complication in interpreting theohall means that if theohall is locked down because the Symbiont thought theohall looked Alien, the Symbiont might've made a mistake there. theohall might be a simple Convict.

On the matter of whether theohall is himself the Symbiont: this strikes me as unlikely. Now would be an odd and pointless time for the Symbiont to lock himself up. The first night would've been a brilliant time to do so, and I asked Scoop for a clarification of whether he was allowed to do that because I wanted to take that possibility into account. It's definitely the sort of move I would've considered making, since (as Lagom Lite noted early in the game) the Symbiont has a limited incentive to allow Aliens to multiply for a while, and since self-lockdown would prevent the Alien from failing to do that and would result in a nearly certain rescue the following day.

So yeah-- I like the idea of a Symbiont self-lockdown on the first night. So does Chaosraven, since he has been careful to take it into account in his analyses. But when the 'raven mentioned it, theohall objected that the idea was foolish on the grounds that time's a-wastin' and the Symbiont has an urgent need to identify the Engineers and secure a sample.

theohall considered it wasteful of time and opportunity for the Symbiont to undertake a self-lockdown. Would theohall then turn around and lock himself down? True, the Engineers are now known. Even so, theohall wouldn't skip the chance to nail down an Alien specimen when he's concerned about time and opportunities.

For these reasons, I think one of these two scenarios is the case:
(a) the Symbiont thought theohall was an Alien and was right
(b) the Symbiont thought theohall was an Alien and was wrong

To figure out who the Symbiont is, we should consider the profile of a player who would make this move and that one.

I'm sleepy. More thoughts tomorrow about where we stand and how we should proceed.

Sean, Minister of KtSP · Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:19 pm

Okay, finally caught up after a week of work kicking my ass.

My vote remains, and I'm going to be stubborn like my fellow crewies. Don't really care if it's annoying to the convicts. I don't trust any of you to not vote another one of us out if we unlock Theo. From where we sit, we see a bunch of losing options for our team, and no winning ones.

However, I am willing to go along with this unlock-two-people-tomorrow plan.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sun Sep 20, 2009 11:53 pm

In that case, you force the hand of Team Convict. We play to win, just as you were playing to win before we turned the tables.

Maybe theohall is an Alien, and maybe he's a Convict. Maybe he's a particularly confused Symbiont. Who knows? But whatever he is, he finally understood that killing an Alien or a Con was equivalent to handing Team Corp a victory.

To reach equilibrium, we 'locked pr0ner. Now, Team Corp is upsetting that delicate balance, tilting it in their favor, by keeping theohall and his vote locked up. We have no choice but to pursue the balance again.

Killing the final alien or killing a Convict would risk handing the victory to Team Corp. Maybe they're right about Remus; maybe not. But this much is clear: let Team Corp direct the show, and they'll only look out for themselves (despite all the whining and pouting about unfair play).

We have to keep the Symbiont in check for now by leaving the Engineers to save one another if need be, so there's only one thing to do:

Austin

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:19 am

Sean, Minister of KtSP wrote:Okay, finally caught up after a week of work kicking my ass.

My vote remains, and I'm going to be stubborn like my fellow crewies. Don't really care if it's annoying to the convicts. I don't trust any of you to not vote another one of us out if we unlock Theo. From where we sit, we see a bunch of losing options for our team, and no winning ones.

However, I am willing to go along with this unlock-two-people-tomorrow plan.

Ah, ze old "unlock-two-people-tomorrow"-ploy, eh?

Again, I'll withdraw my Austin vote if theohall is unlocked. But you knew that already.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:49 am

Austin

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:50 am

Fellow Corp, feel free to vote me off and keep some more hide room for our enemies' enemies.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:33 am

STARSHIP R.SCOTT - DAY TWO

Dead Players
Newcastle
Isgrimnur
pr0ner

Locked Down Players
theohall

Living Players:
Sean, Minister of KtSP
Mr Bubbles
Remus West
Grundbegriff
Lagom Lite
Chaosraven
tru1cy
Austin

Majority is 5 votes.

Votes:
Austin - 3 (Lagom Lite, Grundbegriff, Austin)
Remus West = 2 (tru1cy, Sean, Minister of KtSP)

Players with no vote: Mr Bubbles, Remus West, Chaosraven

A majority vote will close voting. If the Day ends without a majority reached no player will be thrown out the airlock.
The HARD Deadline for Day Two is 9:00 pm ET on Monday, October 5, 2009.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:38 am

Ooooooookay then.

Austin

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:38 am

Oust Austin and I won't unlock anyone tomorrow no matter how many are locked down

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:42 am

Austin

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:43 am

Grundbegriff wrote: Killing the final alien or killing a Convict would risk handing the victory to Team Corp. Maybe they're right about Remus; maybe not. But this much is clear: let Team Corp direct the show, and they'll only look out for themselves (despite all the whining and pouting about unfair play).
Austin

Indeed. I haven't seen such whining a quite a long time and tru1cy keeps doing it like it's going to make a difference. I am in awe.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:44 am

Not sure what else we can do.

You guys could vote me off instead, since you know I cannot have been Converted the First Night, and as the game continued after an Alien was airlocked, I cannot be AC/AO (whichever remained), so I don't fall in the parameters of the original search.

However, unless I am the Symbiont, my death will not aid the numbers for the Convict Team.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:14 am

Mr Bubbles wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote: Killing the final alien or killing a Convict would risk handing the victory to Team Corp. Maybe they're right about Remus; maybe not. But this much is clear: let Team Corp direct the show, and they'll only look out for themselves (despite all the whining and pouting about unfair play).
Austin

Indeed. I haven't seen such whining a quite a long time and tru1cy keeps doing it like it's going to make a difference. I am in awe.

No whining or pouting. We gave you an option and you declined it. Our engineers said they would unlock two con's (or aliens as the case may be) tomorrow and they would stick to their word. They said if you vote one of us out, they will refuse to help, and they are sticking to their word. It was your choice; that is not whining.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 10:26 am

tru1cy wrote:Oust Austin and I won't unlock anyone tomorrow no matter how many are locked down

translation: If you do not actively work against yourselves in the manner I wish then I will not do anything to help my own side either.

You Corp idiots keep acting like we are choosing this. We are not. You are. I outlined an easy senario that would allow us to take a shot among our own to try and find the remainder from yesterday. Unlock Theohall. Yet you refuse to even consider it. That leaves us looking at two options. Airlock one of you or airlock from among ourselves and lock ourselves out of any chance at a win.

I was patient with Theohall yesterday in trying to convince him the course that would allow us a chance at victory. I continue to be patient with you today. I would hope that you would see the light and unlock Theohall so that both human sides might have a better chance at winning. I remain confused by Austin's actions and the only theory I really have to explain them - other than a death wish - is that he was converted last night and thus knows it is best if we do not take a shot at finding his originator. This is bad in many ways since continuing to kill any human while the AO is out there means we are likely going to hand it the game. tru1cy and Sean, please reconsider and think of overall picture your refusal to unlock causes. You are both approaching it as us v them when it is really us v them v it v it. Help make sure one of the its doesn't win.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:00 am

Remus West wrote:
You Corp idiots keep acting like we are choosing this. We are not. You are. I outlined an easy senario that would allow us to take a shot among our own to try and find the remainder from yesterday. Unlock Theohall. Yet you refuse to even consider it. That leaves us looking at two options. Airlock one of you or airlock from among ourselves and lock ourselves out of any chance at a win.

An easy scenario which benefits who? (whom? I can never figure that one out.) You guys had a chance to allow us to prove two corps tomorrow while freeing up theohall and whomever else was locked down. You guys chose not to follow that path, so stop crying about those mean ol' Corps who refuse to help you. We gave you a better plan which involved trusting our engineers who have followed their word 100% thus far. Y'alls choice, y'all chose. Good luck.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:02 am

Unless, my math is off Austin has been airlocked.

C'est le vie - I'm not unlocking anyone from this point forward

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:03 am

tru1cy wrote:Unless, my math is off Austin has been airlocked.

My math also. Thanks for sticking to your guns, well, your unlockies, my brothers. May you be converted and win with the aliens. Perhaps next time the vile convicts will take you more seriously and make the wise decision which proves 2 corps.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:17 am

Austin wrote:Perhaps next time the vile convicts will take you more seriously and make the wise decision which proves 2 corps.

Were I the Symbiont I would have pushed hard for that plan. Then I would have locked down one of your idiot engineers thus removing the chance you could unlock 2 people. Work even better for me if the AO is still free and decides that he doesn't want 2 folks unlocked either so converts the other engineer. Then nobody gets unlocked AND I'm 100% about who to lock up the following night. It was a horridly flawed plan from the start. I hope both of your math is wrong.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:21 am

Remus West wrote:
Austin wrote:Perhaps next time the vile convicts will take you more seriously and make the wise decision which proves 2 corps.
Were I the Symbiont I would have pushed hard for that plan. Then I would have locked down one of your idiot engineers thus removing the chance you could unlock 2 people. Work even better for me if the AO is still free and decides that he doesn't want 2 folks unlocked either so converts the other engineer. Then nobody gets unlocked AND I'm 100% about who to lock up the following night. It was a horridly flawed plan from the start. I hope both of your math is wrong.

I love how the Aliens and Symbiont work together so well in your scenario. It's all moot now though. Best of luck convicts... wait for it... NOT!

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:23 am

Austin wrote:
Remus West wrote:
Austin wrote:Perhaps next time the vile convicts will take you more seriously and make the wise decision which proves 2 corps.
Were I the Symbiont I would have pushed hard for that plan. Then I would have locked down one of your idiot engineers thus removing the chance you could unlock 2 people. Work even better for me if the AO is still free and decides that he doesn't want 2 folks unlocked either so converts the other engineer. Then nobody gets unlocked AND I'm 100% about who to lock up the following night. It was a horridly flawed plan from the start. I hope both of your math is wrong.
I love how the Aliens and Symbiont work together so well in your scenario. It's all moot now though. Best of luck convicts... wait for it... NOT!

I was talking about the perfect storm for the Symbiont not intentional work by the Alien. Besides, he would not have needed the Alien to ruin your plan. Simply locking down an engineer would have done it.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:26 am

tru1cy wrote:Unless, my math is off Austin has been airlocked.

C'est le vie - I'm not unlocking anyone from this point forward

You may not have to if we find and lynch the remaining alien tomorrow, assuming he is not locked down or there are more than one.

Lynching the symbiont tomorrow is second best.

We should lynch one of the following tomorrow:
Remus West
Grundbegriff
Mr Bubbles
Lagom Lite

and/or, if unlocked:
theohall

We should avoid lynching the engineers or Chaosraven imo, since we know neither of these was an alien on Day 1.

All of the above is assuming the aliens can't or hasn't multiplied. If they have, we're toast.

(Sorry Austin)

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:34 am

Remus West wrote:
Austin wrote:
Remus West wrote:
Austin wrote:Perhaps next time the vile convicts will take you more seriously and make the wise decision which proves 2 corps.
Were I the Symbiont I would have pushed hard for that plan. Then I would have locked down one of your idiot engineers thus removing the chance you could unlock 2 people. Work even better for me if the AO is still free and decides that he doesn't want 2 folks unlocked either so converts the other engineer. Then nobody gets unlocked AND I'm 100% about who to lock up the following night. It was a horridly flawed plan from the start. I hope both of your math is wrong.
I love how the Aliens and Symbiont work together so well in your scenario. It's all moot now though. Best of luck convicts... wait for it... NOT!

I was talking about the perfect storm for the Symbiont not intentional work by the Alien. Besides, he would not have needed the Alien to ruin your plan. Simply locking down an engineer would have done it.

You know, from a roleplaying point of view it's pretty fitting - the Crew have decided they can't win so they do what's second best: pave the way for their employer Divergent Corp.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:37 am

Or they can hope for a conversion and take a shot at winning Alien style.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:04 pm

Lagom Lite wrote:We should lynch one of the following tomorrow:
Remus West
Grundbegriff
Mr Bubbles
Lagom Lite

and/or, if unlocked:
theohall

We should avoid lynching the engineers or Chaosraven imo, since we know neither of these was an alien on Day 1.

That's crazy talk. Anyone can be a convert at this point. Immunity/Humanity on Day 1 means nothing now that another night has passed.

By your own estimation, the Alien is the only role that has a vested interest in keeping Engineers alive.

You're lobbying to keep Engineers alive.

All of the above is assuming the aliens can't or hasn't multiplied. If they have, we're toast.

I think the only safe thing to do is to throw you out the airlock tomorrow.

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:24 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote:We should lynch one of the following tomorrow:
Remus West
Grundbegriff
Mr Bubbles
Lagom Lite

and/or, if unlocked:
theohall

We should avoid lynching the engineers or Chaosraven imo, since we know neither of these was an alien on Day 1.
That's crazy talk. Anyone can be a convert at this point. Immunity/Humanity on Day 1 means nothing now that another night has passed.

By your own estimation, the Alien is the only role that has a vested interest in keeping Engineers alive.

You're lobbying to keep Engineers alive.

All of the above is assuming the aliens can't or hasn't multiplied. If they have, we're toast.
I think the only safe thing to do is to throw you out the airlock tomorrow.

If that's how you feel... I could be the Alien original, so could you. /shrug

My point is, the engineers could not be the original, nor could Chaosraven. None of those could be the remaining alien convert if Isgrimnur was the original either.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:45 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote:We should lynch one of the following tomorrow:
Remus West
Grundbegriff
Mr Bubbles
Lagom Lite

and/or, if unlocked:
theohall

We should avoid lynching the engineers or Chaosraven imo, since we know neither of these was an alien on Day 1.
That's crazy talk. Anyone can be a convert at this point. Immunity/Humanity on Day 1 means nothing now that another night has passed.

By your own estimation, the Alien is the only role that has a vested interest in keeping Engineers alive.

You're lobbying to keep Engineers alive.

All of the above is assuming the aliens can't or hasn't multiplied. If they have, we're toast.
I think the only safe thing to do is to throw you out the airlock tomorrow.

Yet another reason to believe Grundbegriff is not a Convict but rather is an Alien. Which makes three but I'll save the third until tomorrow.

Throwing either Engineer or Chaosraven out is stupid. We need to find the Alien we knew was there on day 1. If Isgrimnur was the AO then that Alien is the only one remaining. We KNOW one of the "unknown"s from day 1 has to be an Alien -either the Orignial or the Hacker that was converted. Hunting for the Alien we KNOW exists makes a whole lot more sense than hunting for an alien that MIGHT exist.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:52 pm

STARSHIP R.SCOTT - DAY TWO

VOTING IS CLOSED! Writeup upcoming.

Dead Players
Newcastle
Isgrimnur
pr0ner

Locked Down Players
theohall

Living Players:
Sean, Minister of KtSP
Mr Bubbles
Remus West
Grundbegriff
Lagom Lite
Chaosraven
tru1cy
Austin

Majority is 5 votes.

Votes:
Austin - 5 (Lagom Lite, Grundbegriff, Austin, Chaosraven, Mr Bubbles)
Remus West = 2 (tru1cy, Sean, Minister of KtSP)

Players with no vote: , Remus West,

A majority vote will close voting. If the Day ends without a majority reached no player will be thrown out the airlock.
The HARD Deadline for Day Two is 9:00 pm ET on Monday, October 5, 2009.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 12:58 pm

Lagom Lite wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:By your own estimation, the Alien is the only role that has a vested interest in keeping Engineers alive.

You're lobbying to keep Engineers alive.
If that's how you feel... I could be the Alien original, so could you. /shrug

My point is, the engineers could not be the original, nor could Chaosraven. None of those could be the remaining alien convert if Isgrimnur was the original either.

I agree. Consider the state of the game from play to play:

Sunday night:
Alien Original converts Hacker.
Symbiont locks down Chaosraven.

Monday:
Austin shoots Newcastle.
pr0ner shoots Isgrimnur (Alien Original or Alien Hacker).
crew airlocks pr0ner.

Outed and uncontested and known-to-be-non-Alien as of Monday:

truicy == Engineer == non-alien as of Monday
Sean == Engineer == non-alien as of Monday
Austin == Guard == non-alien as of Monday
pr0ner == Guard == non-alien forever
Newcastle == Convict == non-alien forever
Chaosraven == Something the Original Alien Didn't Convert == non-alien as of Monday

Monday night:
If Isgrimnur was Alien Original, then no conversion. We're looking for the converted Hacker.
If Isgrimnur was Alienized Hacker, then conversion. We're looking for the Alien Original and a new Convert.
Symbiont locks down theohall.

Tuesday day (now):

If Isgrimnur was Alien Original, then our Xeno-mission is to identify and terminate the converted Hacker from among the group
------> {Grundbegriff, Lagom Lite, Mr Bubbles, Remus West, theohall} (since it is now confirmed that Chaosraven != Hacker)

If Isgrimnur was Alienized Hacker, then our Xeno-mission is to identify and terminate the Alien Original and a new Convert from among the group
------> {Austin, Grundbegriff, Lagom Lite, Mr Bubbles, Remus West, Sean MoKtSP, theohall, tru1cy}

Outed and uncontested and known-to-be-non-Alien as of Tuesday:

*cricket*

Note where the Alien Original must be as of today:

If Isgrimnur was the Alien Original, our task is simple: whittle away at the former-Hacker-candidate group until extermination is achieved.
If Isgrimnur was the Hacker, however, then anyone currently alive could be an alien, but the Alien Original would have to be a member of {Grundbegriff, Lagom Lite, Mr Bubbles, Remus West, theohall}.

So we're in fundamental agreement about where things stand. The issue, then, is whether to continue to pursue the Alien Original (thus nipping the proliferation in the bud) or to pursue any Alien (granting that killing a convert is just treading water).

My opinion is that it is great if we can hit the Alien Original, but that it would not be disastrous to tread water for one day. More than that, and we're at risk of being unable to put the genii back in the bottle, the worms back in the can, the plague back in Pandora's Box.

My concern with you is more a question of rhetorical style and tells. I think of our mission as (ultimately) to remove the Alien contamination. You, Lagom Lite, think of that same mission in terms of conserving the Engineers (natural allies to the Alien brood).

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:01 pm

Yet we continue to avoid doing so, based on the Convict vs Crew numbers for winning.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:04 pm

STARSHIP R. SCOTT - END OF DAY TWO

"Thats 5 votes. Now its time to let justice take its course." remarked Mr Bubbles.

"What would YOU know about justice?" asked Austin.

"I know a death sentence when I see one." growled Remus West and tackled Austin pushing him into the airlock.

Austin pressed his face against the airlock window his eyes wide with fear screaming a soundless NOOOOOOOOO.

Grundbegriff hit the outer hatch control and Austin flew out into hard vacuum. As pr0ner floated away writhing in agony as bloody red mist boiled from his eyes, nose and mouth.

Spoiler:

BEEP BEEP BEEP!!!

":Sigh:, here comes the message on the Main Terminal." remarked Chaosraven.

Code: Select all

Course correction upcoming in 5 mins. Please return to your assigned cryo pod.

=============================================================

STARSHIP R.SCOTT - COURSE CORRECTION (NIGHT) THREE

Dead Players
Newcastle
Isgrimnur
pr0ner
Austin

Locked Down Players
theohall

Living Players:
Sean, Minister of KtSP
Mr Bubbles
Remus West
Grundbegriff
Lagom Lite
Chaosraven
tru1cy

Computer Hacker: Which player's cryo pod medical report will you decrypt?
Symbiont: Will you lock down a player's cryo pod?
Alien: who will you attempt to convert?

All Course Correction Play orders must be in before the hard deadline, or forfeit. The HARD deadline for Course Correction (Night) Three is Monday, September 21, 2009 at 8:00 pm ET.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:05 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:First, some miscellaneous observations made in the course of rereading the whole game:

I'm surprised, after we've been playing variants for so long, that a multi-team ruleset with this many interesting characteristics has turned up. Nice work, Scoop!

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:06 pm

Remus West wrote:Yet another reason to believe Grundbegriff is not a Convict but rather is an Alien. Which makes three but I'll save the third until tomorrow.

I can only assume that you're riding me in this way because you're an Alien seeking cover. I'm Nick Nolte, and I always have been.

If you're really so concerned about framing me as an Alien, go ahead and convert me. Then you'll know for sure.

Throwing either Engineer or Chaosraven out is stupid.

It's not ideal. But as long as Team Convict maintains its numerical advantage, we can spare one hit on an Alien Convert instead of the Original.

Again: don't frame me as someone who recommends going after Engineers at this stage; I'm merely pointing out how Lagom Lite thinks about the issue.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Sep 21, 2009 1:07 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:First, some miscellaneous observations made in the course of rereading the whole game:

I'm surprised, after we've been playing variants for so long, that a multi-team ruleset with this many interesting characteristics has turned up. Nice work, Scoop!

I'll add this: the fact that we lost the Hacker right out of the gate has radically affected the team war. If we had the additional scanning information that the Hacker provides, negotiations and calculations might be going differently.