Alefroth wrote: ↑Thu Jun 13, 2024 11:04 pm
Being able to obscure your identity in public is at the core of right to privacy, I feel. Taking that away feels like an attack.
+1.
If you've done nothing wrong, you shouldn't object...
I'm seriously confused by your reply here.
I would think the sentence: "If you've done nothing wrong, you shouldn't object..." would be said by the person who is saying there is no reason for a non-criminal to hide their face; cause if you've done nothing wrong, you wouldn't object. But your "+1" seems to support the idea of "I do object, becasue I've done nothing wrong." (Which is at the core of Alefroth's point)
I can't really pretend to follow whatever jousting is happening here right now, but I'm going to clearly state that banning people from wearing masks under the guise of "public safety" is absurd.
Are my prescription sunglasses allowing me to crime easier?
Make no mistake, this is politicians taking advantage of public sentiment against "lockdowns" and "mandates" to enact legislation that won't be opposed. This is the natural evolution of what happens when we all just accept taking off our shoes at the airport is fighting terrorism.
While in the end it could be argued that making criminals easier to catch is beneficial to the public, it really is just the government restricting citizen's right to privacy so the government can do its job easier. This has not been a constitutionally effective argument in the past.
i.e. restricting everyone's rights for government benefit typically gets struck down, is my understanding.
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 12:40 pm
I can't really pretend to follow whatever jousting is happening here right now, but I'm going to clearly state that banning people from wearing masks under the guise of "public safety" is absurd.
There's no jousting. There was one autistic person looking at a social issue and saying, "I don't get it - please explain." We then had another person who misinterpreted someone's post. I think everyone's on the same page.
Are my prescription sunglasses allowing me to crime easier?
They absolutely do. We have a whole list of things that are legal (and should remain that way) that make crime easier. Hoodies. Hats. Loose-fitting clothing (I could write a small book on this one alone.) VPNs. Voice changing tech. TOR browser. Vehicles that can exceed any speed limit. Data encryption. Lockpicks on Amazon.
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:09 pm
There's no jousting. There was one autistic person looking at a social issue and saying, "I don't get it - please explain." We then had another person who misinterpreted someone's post. I think everyone's on the same page.
Yeah, I see that now as I'm catching up.
They absolutely do. We have a whole list of things that are legal (and should remain that way) that make crime easier. Hoodies. Hats. Loose-fitting clothing (I could write a small book on this one alone.) VPNs. Voice changing tech. TOR browser. Vehicles that can exceed any speed limit. Data encryption. Lockpicks on Amazon.
Hoodies and hats aren't medically necessary. If I'm walking around downtown wearing prescriptions sunglasses, it's because I have a medical need to see. If I'm wearing a mask it public, maybe I have asthma. Maybe I am immunocompromised. Maybe none of the above is true and I just like wearing dark shades and an n95.
At least we don't have bump stocks anymore.
Yeah, definitely confirming we're in the worst timeline.
They absolutely do. We have a whole list of things that are legal (and should remain that way) that make crime easier. Hoodies. Hats. Loose-fitting clothing (I could write a small book on this one alone.) VPNs. Voice changing tech. TOR browser. Vehicles that can exceed any speed limit. Data encryption. Lockpicks on Amazon.
Hoodies and hats aren't medically necessary. If I'm walking around downtown wearing prescriptions sunglasses, it's because I have a medical need to see. If I'm wearing a mask it public, maybe I have asthma. Maybe I am immunocompromised. Maybe none of the above is true and I just like wearing dark shades and an n95.
Hats can be medically necessary (ask anyone on chemo.) Same thing applies to hoodies, especially in cold climes. The point was that there are a thousand things that have legitimate purposes that also happen to make crime easier. Making crime easier isn't enough to justify a ban.
That doesn't even touch on what can be done with knives, or how it can represent a near-perfect disguise (it takes about five seconds to peel off a couple of pieces of baggy clothing and a hat when you're wearing a completely different set of clothes underneath), nor does it touch on just how easy it makes it to steal when you're wearing a shopping bag around your waist. It also makes you harder to restrain.
The popularity of the style in the early and mid 90s wasn't an accident. Most people who later adopted it didn't actually know that, but the origin was almost entirely about criminal acts.
I mean on the surface, voter ID sounds like a common sense thing. I mean why shouldn't we validate the person voting is who they say they are? Then you realize the real reason behind it is to suppress marginalized communities.
Same with masking. I'm convinced the common sense reason obscures an ulterior motive. Because if it truly was a common sense solution to a widely recognized problem, it would have bipartisan support.
I agree with your point (which is why I was asking), but one bit:
YellowKing wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:43 pm
Because if it truly was a common sense solution to a widely recognized problem, it would have bipartisan support.
I don't think this is a good metric anymore. Party A will actively block anything pursued by Party B unless it's an absolutely black-and-white issue that might sway voters.
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 1:40 pm
Hats can be medically necessary (ask anyone on chemo.) Same thing applies to hoodies, especially in cold climes. The point was that there are a thousand things that have legitimate purposes that also happen to make crime easier. Making crime easier isn't enough to justify a ban.
That's fair - though I'd guess most people (myself included) wouldn't think someone wearing a hat or hoodie was undergoing chemo - as opposed to seeing someone in an n95 mask.
The mask (as you know) is for the impact of the chemo on the immune system. Many forms of chemo also result in extreme sun sensitivity. People outdoors during chemo are advised to wear long sleeves, long pants, and hats that provide shade. There are whole lines of clothing that are designed with them in mind - thin, cool clothing that makes wearing long pants and long sleeves to the beach reasonable.
A malicious government ran a program to actively discredit vaccines and and vaccination during the heart of the pandemic. This likely resulted in thousands - if not tens of thousands - of unnecessary deaths when vaccines were available.
There is nothing defensible here. These were the bad guys, and they should be held accountable.
Wow. This is the first I'm seeing/hearing about it. It's no wonder we have so many vaccination wack jobs her in the United States. They're likely directly fed misinformation from foreign agents (on top of domestic opportunists).
Long before Covid, you could visit NYC Chinatown and see 10% or 15% of people on the sidewalk masked up. This is because masking has been common in many parts of Asia for decades: if you have as much as a cold, you wear a mask in public to avoid spreading it. It's a cultural commonplace.
They're only floating a mask ban on public transport, but this is how it starts. After hearing how successful (!) it will be in stopping crime on subways and busses, I have no doubts they'll scale it out to other places.
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 12:40 pm
I can't really pretend to follow whatever jousting is happening here right now, but I'm going to clearly state that banning people from wearing masks under the guise of "public safety" is absurd.
Are my prescription sunglasses allowing me to crime easier?
Make no mistake, this is politicians taking advantage of public sentiment against "lockdowns" and "mandates" to enact legislation that won't be opposed. This is the natural evolution of what happens when we all just accept taking off our shoes at the airport is fighting terrorism.
A gun make it easier to commit violent crimes. I guess if this mask ban law passed, it is a good time to also ban guns.
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 3:23 pm
A malicious government ran a program to actively discredit vaccines and and vaccination during the heart of the pandemic. This likely resulted in thousands - if not tens of thousands - of unnecessary deaths when vaccines were available.
There is nothing defensible here. These were the bad guys, and they should be held accountable.
But we won't.
While it is understandable to target enemy countries, Philippines is an ally to US.
This is the kind of campaign that deals splash damage to the entire world. And even if it wasn't an ally, targeting civilian populations during a pandemic...
Thinking about it, the military causing a disease to spread out of control is, ethically, very close to biological warfare.
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 12:40 pm
I can't really pretend to follow whatever jousting is happening here right now, but I'm going to clearly state that banning people from wearing masks under the guise of "public safety" is absurd.
Are my prescription sunglasses allowing me to crime easier?
Make no mistake, this is politicians taking advantage of public sentiment against "lockdowns" and "mandates" to enact legislation that won't be opposed. This is the natural evolution of what happens when we all just accept taking off our shoes at the airport is fighting terrorism.
The mask ban hasn't been kicked around here yet, but masks w/ hoodies/hats are a big problem. It's not that they make committing a crime easier, it's that they make it harder to get caught. Masks are a counter to video now that most places have cameras. They also negate any sort of eyewitness evidence. This round of the continual arms race has gone to the criminals who took advantage of masking.
Sadly, it's kind of a given now that if you're in a quiet corner bar and someone comes in with a mask and a hood on, you're about to get robbed. On a train? Same thing.
I still see a handful of people wearing masks in grocery stores, etc. There's a marked difference between that and 4 guys in a car with masks and hoods at 2am.
I get the legislative and political irony but the robbery masks are very real.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General "No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton MYT
LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 6:15 pm
Sadly, it's kind of a given now that if you're in a quiet corner bar and someone comes in with a mask and a hood on, you're about to get robbed. On a train? Same thing.
LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 6:15 pm
Sadly, it's kind of a given now that if you're in a quiet corner bar and someone comes in with a mask and a hood on, you're about to get robbed. On a train? Same thing.
They often do. But that's really what the hoodies and hats are for.
Also, the study in Nature tested subjects memory in controlled trials, not video evidence or eyewitnesses in court or police investigation.
But the point remains that masks are being abused by criminals. I'm sure blanket bans aren't the solution but ignoring the problem isn't either.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General "No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton MYT
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 12:40 pm
I can't really pretend to follow whatever jousting is happening here right now, but I'm going to clearly state that banning people from wearing masks under the guise of "public safety" is absurd.
Are my prescription sunglasses allowing me to crime easier?
Make no mistake, this is politicians taking advantage of public sentiment against "lockdowns" and "mandates" to enact legislation that won't be opposed. This is the natural evolution of what happens when we all just accept taking off our shoes at the airport is fighting terrorism.
The mask ban hasn't been kicked around here yet, but masks w/ hoodies/hats are a big problem. It's not that they make committing a crime easier, it's that they make it harder to get caught. Masks are a counter to video now that most places have cameras. They also negate any sort of eyewitness evidence. This round of the continual arms race has gone to the criminals who took advantage of masking.
Sadly, it's kind of a given now that if you're in a quiet corner bar and someone comes in with a mask and a hood on, you're about to get robbed. On a train? Same thing.
I still see a handful of people wearing masks in grocery stores, etc. There's a marked difference between that and 4 guys in a car with masks and hoods at 2am.
I get the legislative and political irony but the robbery masks are very real.
This, by the way, is why they are (or at least, were) illegal in Nevada casinos. Every casino had an entire department dedicated entirely to surveillance, with thousands (literally) of cameras throughout the casino, and who spent hours memorizing mugshots. The security department had a whole shelf of binders of those same mugshots which we spent time studying. Some were thieves, but most were cheats. Many were not criminal mugshots, just '86 shots shared between casinos.
Surveillance was amazing in their ability to identify a known cheater within minutes of them entering the building.
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 7:56 pm
This, by the way, is why they are (or at least, were) illegal in Nevada casinos. Every casino had an entire department dedicated entirely to surveillance, with thousands (literally) of cameras throughout the casino, and who spent hours memorizing mugshots. The security department had a whole shelf of binders of those same mugshots which we spent time studying. Some were thieves, but most were cheats. Many were not criminal mugshots, just '86 shots shared between casinos.
Surveillance was amazing in their ability to identify a known cheater within minutes of them entering the building.
But that's hardly the model we want to establish in a civil society, right?
It's exactly the scheme China is following, with "known cheater" defined as anyone who has expressed unapproved opinions.
LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 6:15 pm
Sadly, it's kind of a given now that if you're in a quiet corner bar and someone comes in with a mask and a hood on, you're about to get robbed. On a train? Same thing.
LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 6:15 pm
Sadly, it's kind of a given now that if you're in a quiet corner bar and someone comes in with a mask and a hood on, you're about to get robbed. On a train? Same thing.
Pyperkub wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:34 pm
Given the recent explosion of H5N1 in cattle in the US these past few months, this mask bullshit may get very deadly, very fast.
And H5N1 is exactly the kind of thing masks will be great against.
Pyperkub wrote: ↑Fri Jun 14, 2024 11:34 pm
Given the recent explosion of H5N1 in cattle in the US these past few months, this mask bullshit may get very deadly, very fast.
And H5N1 is exactly the kind of thing masks will be great against.
I'm pretty sure cattle don't like wearing masks.
It has jumped to people before in Asia. Vietnam specifically.
And for over a decade there has been concern that it will again. The huge prevalence would seem to make it more likely to me.
Just look at covid variants as it has had a nice, large population to evolve in. The odds of H5N1 making the leap are growing as it spreads. It may not make the leap...
.... It's, a worry, but we all know that covid isn't the last pandemic, and that given the way of international trade, we'll be seeing more.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
MHS and I are in the middle of a 10-day stay in a Vegas casino, and haven’t been asked to de-mask nor have we seen any other wearers (maybe 1% of the patrons) similarly bothered. My guess is the casinos reserve the right to verify our identities (duh) and that they have alternative technologies to assist in doing the same.
Also, MHS is doing well (temporal link will likely change in the next four hours).
"Better to talk to people than communicate via tweet." — Elontra
The Meal wrote: ↑Sat Jun 15, 2024 11:58 am
MHS and I are in the middle of a 10-day stay in a Vegas casino, and haven’t been asked to de-mask nor have we seen any other wearers (maybe 1% of the patrons) similarly bothered. My guess is the casinos reserve the right to verify our identities (duh) and that they have alternative technologies to assist in doing the same.
Also, MHS is doing well (temporal link will likely change in the next four hours).
Medical necessity was always an exception, and the law probably became unenforceable during COVID. Given the reliance on tourism, I wouldn't be surprised to find that enforcement has been (quietly) suspended at the state level.
