Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

[Paingod]

It's hard to re-develop a single course in a whole new format over one summer, let alone four or five of them.

Part of me wants to see this school year school and the next taught at half-speed so that instructors have time to organize and teach effectively at a distance, and just have everyone graduate one year later than planned. I'm not entirely joking.

We're seriously considering moving our kids to an accredited homeschooling program this fall instead of sending them back. These programs have been streamlined and structured to maximize the online potential and keep the burden on the parents manageable. Anywhere that COVID-19 hasn't been functionally contained, schools are going to be a clusterfluff of broken dreams and plague spreading if they re-open. I've said before, too, that I don't want the kids to feel like whether or not their grandparents die is on them. That's bullshit.

America as a whole has completely bungled the response to this virus, starting with the buffoon at the top who spent the first critical months denying it was even a problem, and then going counter-science and dragging along 30% of the population with him.

America could have gotten its shit together if we had a real leader that jumped on this. We could have used a plan designed by experts instead of having thrown it out a year earlier, locked things down early instead of fighting to keep them open, mandated mask use instead of politicizing it, and worked with local communities to help spread resources instead of doing a smash and grab. There's a good chance that we could have opened schools in the fall if we had responsible leadership. We don't, so we can't. Instead we have a leader that's still fighting to kill people because he refuses to accept that he was wrong.

[Octavious]

I actually think the GOP strat now is to get as many people sick as they can to disrupt the election. I knew they were evil greedy sacks of crap, but I didn't think anyone would take it this far. We almost cleared 1,000 dead a day for the last 3 days and all they have been doing is threatening people that don't reopen. I seriously would leave the country if I could. We're so fucked.

[Holman]

It's good.

Milt is fond of the expression “a decision has to be made.” His wisdom has never been more pertinent than it is today. We have to make a decision. There is no choice to do nothing, because either way — go to school or learn remotely — we are making a decision.

But he blew it by not quoting Rush instead (maybe).

I feel like the choice isn't "learn remotely" or "go to school"

It's more likely to be "learn remotely" or "go to school for a few weeks until a case spike forces a lurch back to remote learning."

Maybe we should treat this Fall semester (if not the Spring as well) as educational palliative care: reinforce the partial lessons of this past Spring, maintain skills, but don't attempt much curricular advancement until the hoped-for vaccine makes normal schooling possible again, ideally in 2021.

[raydude]

It's good.

Milt is fond of the expression “a decision has to be made.” His wisdom has never been more pertinent than it is today. We have to make a decision. There is no choice to do nothing, because either way — go to school or learn remotely — we are making a decision.

But he blew it by not quoting Rush instead (maybe).

I feel like the choice isn't "learn remotely" or "go to school"

It's more likely to be "learn remotely" or "go to school for a few weeks until a case spike forces a lurch back to remote learning."

Maybe we should treat this Fall semester (if not the Spring as well) as educational palliative care: reinforce the partial lessons of this past Spring, maintain skills, but don't attempt much curricular advancement until the hoped-for vaccine makes normal schooling possible again, ideally in 2021.

Based on the attitudes of the Florida governor I think the choice is "go to school and fuck anyone who dies. They're staying open".

[Smoove_B]

Maybe we should treat this Fall semester (if not the Spring as well) as educational palliative care: reinforce the partial lessons of this past Spring, maintain skills, but don't attempt much curricular advancement until the hoped-for vaccine makes normal schooling possible again, ideally in 2021.

I'd been wondering if this would be communicated - what if there aren't enough teachers?

As New Jersey prepares to reopen its schools with new coronavirus social distancing rules, more than 100,000 classroom teachers across the state have to make a decision: Are they going back?

School districts have begun to hear from teachers who are requesting to retire early or refusing to return to the classroom during the coronavirus pandemic. Others are asking to teach only from home because they or one of their relatives have health problems.

Broadly:

The NJEA was among nearly a dozen state and national groups that released a report Thursday, titled “A National Call to Action,” calling on public health agencies to help states come up with more detailed plans to protect students and teachers as schools prepare to reopen.

Some educators have said the reopening guidelines released by states, including New Jersey, are not specific enough and leave too many questions unanswered in school districts as parents and teachers decided if it’s safe to return to the classroom.

[malchior]

I actually asked my MIL if there are any rumors of a strike...and she said she had only heard people propose them. Still I wouldn't be surprised to see it here. The teacher's are being put in an untenable position. Considering how powerful the NJEA is I won't be shocked to see Murphy fold like the paper napkin he is when inevitably he gets confronted on this.

[Blackhawk]

I don't know the answer to the school problem. In fact, we're four weeks from the first day of school and have yet to hear anything about our school's 'plan.'

Sometimes, you don't get to make a good decision. Sometimes every answer is going to be harmful, and you're only choice is in choosing which form of harm you prefer. We've got so many factors bouncing around right now - our kids' development, our kids education (distinct from development), the risk of a huge wave of cases bringing with it a wave of human deaths, more damage to the economy, and so forth. We have to look at which we are more likely to recover from. If we ensure our kids development this year, does it bring social and economic costs that will impact their adulthood? Which is worse for them, a year of stunted development and education, or graduating into an economy that still hasn't recovered. And if your kids are six, and someone else's are 15, are you boosting your kids futures a the cost of someone else's kids futures?

And what if we open up, cause a massive wave of infections, and have to shut down again? We'd end up paying the full, hard price, but we wouldn't be gaining the benefits at all.

I don't know any of the answers. I know my answers. My kids are older, so they're at greater risk and more shutdowns are likely worse for them are going to be far worse for them than more distance learning (especially for my oldest, who is already in a deep, deep hole because of this). But I also know that my answers would be at the probable cost of families with younger kids, and I can't force others to suffer so that I benefit.

All I know for sure is that there isn't any solution that will make anybody happy, that there will be consequences to us and our kids regardless, and that I'm very glad I'm not the one making the decisions.

[Blackhawk]

And two minutes later I got the email from the school:

~The first day will be as scheduled.
~Five COVID makeup days have been added to the calendar
~All learning will be on-campus
~No temperatures or screening will take place; students should self-screen.
~Classes will be five days a week with normal hours
~Classrooms have been arranged so that kids don't need to wear masks
~Masks are provided and there are times that the students are 'recommended' to wear them.
~Extra cleaning will be in place
~Playgrounds will be open
~Visitors will be limited

In other words, nothing. Nothing has changed at all.

This is what happens when you let idiot, redneck 'educators' make decisions at the county level.

[gbasden]

It's good.

Milt is fond of the expression “a decision has to be made.” His wisdom has never been more pertinent than it is today. We have to make a decision. There is no choice to do nothing, because either way — go to school or learn remotely — we are making a decision.

But he blew it by not quoting Rush instead (maybe).

Absolutely concur!

[Paingod]

In other words, nothing. Nothing has changed at all.

This is what happens when you let idiot, redneck 'educators' make decisions at the county level.

Oof. I wouldn't send my kids to school under the banner of "Everything's Fine" unless we had a widely deployed (70%+) vaccine... and I live in a state with fewer than 500 active cases right now.

When China had under 500 active "reported" cases back in late January, they shut whole cities down.

[malchior]

One of my friends here in NJ just said that his daycare just said that 60% of the children there had confirmed cases - this would be in the Bedminster, NJ area if I remember where he is. He is close to the Trump property there. Anyway, he says he feel comforted returning them there because they're touting that they've gotten to herd immunity...which I don't think is the case. But whatever. YOLO!

[Zaxxon]

This is what happens when you let idiot, redneck 'educators' make decisions at the county level.

Not awesome. Also in agreement with you that there are no choices that will make anyone happy.

In other news, my county is part of a 3-county health dept, but we're also one of Colorado's most conservative counties, while the other two are not. That dept issued a mask mandate yesterday. On queue last night, our county opted out and announced that they are withdrawing from the 3-county dept in favor of starting our own 'more appropriate' dept.

Can we *please* find a previous save to load from? This one's completely borked.

[El Guapo]

~Classrooms have been arranged so that kids don't need to wear masks

That's amazing that they have set things up so that the kids won't have to breathe. Or maybe each desk comes with a Get Smart style Cone of Silence?

[Smoove_B]

I'm kinda hoping the local, state and national teacher unions continue to coalesce and speak out. Granted, I'm already seeing people posting on social media that teachers are "essential workers" and they should just be fired if they refuse to show up and teach children. Why do teachers hate children, anyway? Won't somebody think of the children?

[malchior]

I'm kinda hoping the local, state and national teacher unions continue to coalesce and speak out. Granted, I'm already seeing people posting on social media that teachers are "essential workers" and they should just be fired if they refuse to show up and teach children. Why do teachers hate children, anyway? Won't somebody think of the children?

I also love how this is framed as some unavoidable circumstance. Just put on our faux British stiff upper lip and soldier through it. Don't let Coron-y keep us down! Fight the germ! To victory!

[El Guapo]

FWIW my office just said that they plan to stay remote through at least early October.

[malchior]

FWIW my office just said that they plan to stay remote through at least early October.

My very safety oriented client with a major office in Houston has cancelled their return to office that was underway and they think it'll resume *next year*. My company has indefinitely closed most of our offices - we are consulting so this isn't a surprise.

[Smoove_B]

I know I shouldn't be amazed or surprised anymore, but when an elected official is bragging about ignoring a mask policy and encouraging others to do so, it really grinds my gears:

Ohio State Rep. Candice Keller didn't wear a mask when she shopped Thursday at a Middletown Walgreens.

She did wear a blue hat featuring an American flag and the name "Reagan."

Keller posted on Facebook a photo of herself on Facebook outside the door of the Walgreens. A sign on the door said, "Mandatory face protection is required to enter."

"Spent $53. No mask. Only one in the store maskless," Keller wrote in the post. "Be brave. Try it. You'll like it."

I guess what amazes me most is that this is still being characterized as "being brave" instead of "being a sociopath".

[The Meal]

This is what happens when you let idiot, redneck 'educators' make decisions at the county level.

Not awesome. Also in agreement with you that there are no choices that will make anyone happy.

In other news, my county is part of a 3-county health dept, but we're also one of Colorado's most conservative counties, while the other two are not. That dept issued a mask mandate yesterday. On queue last night, our county opted out and announced that they are withdrawing from the 3-county dept in favor of starting our own 'more appropriate' dept.

Can we *please* find a previous save to load from? This one's completely borked.

Isn't it true that there's something different about Douglas County compared to the other two, though?



I hear you about wanting to live somewhere that mask use was taken (heck, dictated) more seriously though.
—Not so proud resident of Weld County, CO.

[Zaxxon]

Isn't it true that there's something different about Douglas County compared to the other two, though?

If your implication is that the driving force of the commissioners was that Douglas County is doing 'better' than the other 2 rather than Muh Freedoms, then no. They've been pushing back against the response since the initial shutdown driven by their ideology, not statistics.

[YellowKing]

I actually think the GOP strat now is to get as many people sick as they can to disrupt the election.

Disrupting the election with sick voters affects both parties. I guess you could argue that minorities/lower-economy individuals are more likely to be impacted AND more likely to vote Democrat, but I'm skeptical that's the driving force.

I still think this comes down the economy, which is the GOP/Trump's ONLY strength. They are still clinging to the idea that if we can re-open everything, the economy will magically bounce back good as new and Trump will be elected on a wave of strong economic indicators. That's obviously pure fantasy this late in the game, but it's all they've got.

[El Guapo]

I actually think the GOP strat now is to get as many people sick as they can to disrupt the election.

Disrupting the election with sick voters affects both parties. I guess you could argue that minorities/lower-economy individuals are more likely to be impacted AND more likely to vote Democrat, but I'm skeptical that's the driving force.

I still think this comes down the economy, which is the GOP/Trump's ONLY strength. They are still clinging to the idea that if we can re-open everything, the economy will magically bounce back good as new and Trump will be elected on a wave of strong economic indicators. That's obviously pure fantasy this late in the game, but it's all they've got.

I also think that Trump is still clinging to some degree to his early fantasy that this is all overblown by Democrats and the media to sink his electoral chances. Hence Trump's remark that 99% of the time people are fine, etc. And then Trump's fantasy filters down to the rest of the party faithful.

[The Meal]

Isn't it true that there's something different about Douglas County compared to the other two, though?

If your implication is that the driving force of the commissioners was that Douglas County is doing 'better' than the other 2 rather than Muh Freedoms, then no. They've been pushing back against the response since the initial shutdown driven by their ideology, not statistics.

I live in a similarly-politicized area and understand what your experience is. I share the same frustration. But there's a difference between Arapahoe & Adams vs. Douglas based purely on the case rate numbers. I'm not saying that local leaders are doing a better job, just that they're governing different situations.

[Zaxxon]

There's a distinction without a difference, yes. Again, if they put forth a cogent argument, things would be different. But it's nakedly partisan. Which is defensible on political grounds. Hence the frustration.

But we chooses our counties and we gets what we gets.

[Blackhawk]

I am seriously, seriously stressing about the school thing. The CDC recommends masks, closing playgrounds, and closing cafeterias. But since they're only recommendations and not requirements, the school can ignore them, and has ignored them on all three.

My only two options are to have him go as scheduled, or to pull him out and use the 'online alternative' they just announced. But the online alternative isn't going to be popular in the rural district, and I'm afraid that it's going to be a half-assed, unfunded hand-waving to get rid of those who object. And one core thing for Caiden has always been band. He's been in since the fifth grade, and all of his friends are through the band, plus he just made section lead. Since we live a county away, there is other time he'd have access to his friends.

So either I throw him into a cesspool, or I give him what is certain to be a third-rate education and take away the one class he really loves.

God damn the school for doing this.

[Blackhawk]

I talked to Michelle about the problem. She insists that it is Caiden's decision. We're leaving it in the hands of a 16 year old who misses his friends, and he's already decided that he wants to go back so he can see them.

<personal rant> I'm tired of putting in the time, the stress, and the effort of staying on top of what's going on in the world only to be brushed aside by convenience and what feels good by people who roll their eyes and walk out of the room when current events come up. Fuck it. I surrender. I'm done fighting for rationality. I just need to choose between a hermit's cave and a MAGA hat. </personal rant>

[Unagi]

You are not alone.

[Isgrimnur]

I will admit to being lucky. My MIL is pretty much a shut-in by choice as it is, and my wife, left to her own devices, is even less social in meatspace than I am.

[Blackhawk]

You are not alone.

You don't seem to understand how hermit caves work.

[Zaxxon]

You are not alone.

You don't seem to understand how hermit caves work.

Is there room for one more?

[Unagi]

You are not alone.

You don't seem to understand how hermit caves work.

ha! I was going to add: But don't be alarmed, I'm also nowhere near you.

[Little Raven]

Fuck it. I surrender.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm in the same boat. Maybe Smoove can convince me otherwise, but from where I see things right now....containment is hopeless. It's in too many places. Even if people wanted to be responsible - and to be clear, a lot of them don't - it's too late. I seriously doubt we could contact trace everyone now even if we actually had the political will to do so, but even if we could and did...just wait till the next round of protests start up. (and it's inevitable that they will - just duck into the viral economy thread to see why)

So...herd immunity it is then. Try not to get it while the hospitals are full.

[Isgrimnur]

So...herd immunity it is then. Try not to get it while the hospitals are full.

[Unagi]

Fuck it. I surrender.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm in the same boat. Maybe Smoove can convince me otherwise, but from where I see things right now....containment is hopeless. It's in too many places. Even if people wanted to be responsible - and to be clear, a lot of them don't - it's too late. I seriously doubt we could contact trace everyone now even if we actually had the political will to do so, but even if we could and did...just wait till the next round of protests start up. (and it's inevitable that they will - just duck into the viral economy thread to see why)

So...herd immunity it is then. Try not to get it while the hospitals are full.

We haven't surrendered to the virus, we are tired of trying to tell people they still need to keep up the good fight.

At least that was my impression.

(Which is not to say you may not be right)

[Smoove_B]

The CDC recommends masks, closing playgrounds, and closing cafeterias.

I know you're not looking for a solution, but i did want to clarify - so you can best focus (and apply) your irritation. Public health measures are always going to be a state and local offering. The CDC exists to guide and ideally provide models for the states and locals to follow. At least, they did prior to March of 2020. Anyway, anything school/education related is coming out of the failures of your state/county/local officials. The virus spreading rampantly throughout the U.S. is without question on the back of the federal government. But a policy for mask use or how to run a school will always be driven by a state.

Anyway, I wish I had something positive to offer here, but I feel for you (and anyone really) that's living in a community where your local/county/state officials are failing you. This was not supposed to happen.

I know I've said it before, but I don't know how to adequately describe what it's like to see 23+ years of work/education/career material/training/information slowly unravel over the last 3 years, only to just fully come apart in the last 4 months.

[Jeff V]

Fuck it. I surrender.

If it makes you feel any better, I'm in the same boat. Maybe Smoove can convince me otherwise, but from where I see things right now....containment is hopeless. It's in too many places. Even if people wanted to be responsible - and to be clear, a lot of them don't - it's too late. I seriously doubt we could contact trace everyone now even if we actually had the political will to do so, but even if we could and did...just wait till the next round of protests start up. (and it's inevitable that they will - just duck into the viral economy thread to see why)

So...herd immunity it is then. Try not to get it while the hospitals are full.

If you continue to not do shit you're not supposed to do to stay safe, you're still stacking the odds in your favor. There are approximately no restaurants that we will risk our health to visit. It sucks having the hottest summer in recent memory but I'm not going to the water park when it opens this weekend even though I have season passes. I responded to a school district survey this week making it clear that no option that exposes the kids to risk that they will then bring home is acceptable. There's a chance we might go camping for a few days at a state park that has low camper volume and no beaches. The dunes in Michigan were fun last year, but the beaches are too damn crowded.

[Blackhawk]

No doubt about it. This is a direct result of the experts at the state level passing the buck to the counties. There is no way that counties with a smaller population than most small towns are going to have access to the kind of experts and decision making resources that they have at the state level. Instead, we get local idiots with their personal agendas deciding health issues that they're completely unqualified to comment on, let alone choosing how to spend human lives.

[Little Raven]

We haven't surrendered to the virus, we are tired of trying to tell people they still need to keep up the good fight.

I dunno. My school district just sent out a memo to teachers - be prepared to come back to school full time in September, or be prepared to resign. Even as Austin moves into Code Red crisis mode.

And the thing is...I can't even say for certain that they're wrong. Because while opening the schools up is most definitely going to be a disaster for all the reasons people have painfully outlined in this thread....the sad truth is, keeping them closed would be a huge disaster as well. Parents need to go back to work. Kids need to socialize, and to be educated. Our school system is enormous, and has an awful lot of poor kids. There's no feasible way to have everyone distance educate even if there were the resources to do so...which there aren't.

It's a huge mess, and increasingly, it seems to me like the only way out is through.

[Smoove_B]

It's a huge mess, and increasingly, it seems to me like the only way out is through.

Kids do need to socialize, but I'm hard pressed to say a child's need to socialize is greater than a teacher's need to remain in a low-risk environment.

The only way out isn't through - we have other options. We can likely push for 90% fully online courses for everyone and make sure that every kid that needs a laptop and an internet connection has one. Failing that, we can likely create very controlled in-person environments for children that need in person instruction (for whatever reason). Well, we might have been able to do that. With ~30-40 days to go in most places, I doubt anything is going to figured out to the satisfaction of every party involved. We knew back in May this was a likely outcome (cases spreading, increasing) and yet nothing was officially stated for colleges and school until the last week or so. Everyone is holding off because no one wants to commit early to the difficult decisions - particularly when money is involved. It's beyond ridiculous (IMHO) that high school sports are being examined. That college sports are desperately trying to figure things out. That major sports leagues are bending over backwards to try and complete a season. For what?

The bigger picture issue (for me) is the inconsistency in priorities here. Asking someone to work in a Lowe's or supermarket for an 8 hour shift might be (at a minimum) just as risky as having a teacher sit in a classroom for 8 hours a day. We've already decided retail stores need to be open so I don't know how we can also then decide educators shouldn't come in. Just in looking at my own state's rules and regulations, there's not a clear logic to what's happening - and we have a handle (mostly) on things. But I can't justify why casinos (!) are open right now or why indoor dining was ever on track to be open.

Part of the reason it's so hard to deal with the school issue is because of the broad inconsistencies and logical gymnastics you need to do to try and understand things.

[Torfish]

My kids college fall plans have been sent out. All students are required to test before being allowed on campus. Large class room (lectures) will be on-line only. Masks are required in all public areas.

I have one in middle school that starts in mid-August. Masks not required. One day a month there will be no school to reserve for deep cleaning. Local schools are going to be a problem area. My opinion, as soon as a few students test positive during the school year they will shut down. I easily see this happening and I'm very sad about it. I'm sad because my son will be getting less education and no sports. It's probably unavoidable. This fall might be like the spring.

I'm still working from home. No date set for office people to come back. I've created a nice office in the basement with all essential equipment that I need to work efficiently. It took about six weeks to plaster, paint, and setup. I'm working fine with no limitations or distractions. I've never worked from home in my career. It's strange to not be in the office, but it is manageable. I don't foresee myself going back anytime soon with the rise of cases. In my county alone, we have gone from 30 cases at the beginning of June to almost 600 as of today. I live in a small populated county.