YellowKing wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:37 pm
In other words, I don't even understand the plan from a Republican's point of view. Normally I can at least put myself in their shoes from a political standpoint and go, "Well they're throwing red meat to their base," or "they're capitalizing on fear of immigration." This doesn't even make any sense from their own point of view.
They've seen that the body count doesn't faze the stock market, and it certainly doesn't bother them personally. They have to open schools for the investor class.
Pushing to open schools goes hand in hand with the "it will disappear soon. nothing to worry about. Don't worry about the obese orange criminal behind the curtain."
What I don't get is....what do they think the end game is going to be from discrediting Fauci and encouraging school and businesses to open back up? Even if, for the sake of argument, everyone in the country agreed tomorrow would be "business as usual," the economy is not going to magically just return to normal. People are not going to suddenly become blind to hospitals reaching capacity and bodies piling up in morgues. There's literally no upside to what they're doing, because it's only going to hurt the economy even more and even further ruin their election chances.
In other words, I don't even understand the plan from a Republican's point of view. Normally I can at least put myself in their shoes from a political standpoint and go, "Well they're throwing red meat to their base," or "they're capitalizing on fear of immigration." This doesn't even make any sense from their own point of view.
When the going gets tough, the bullshitters keep bullshitting.
I mean it works until it doesn't. They have no other choice.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:55 pm
by Max Peck
Skinypupy wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:41 pm
The derp du jour I’ve seen flying around today;
The reason no other country is having a “second wave” is because they are not trying to unseat a President in November.
Conservatives are simply too stupid, stubborn, and politically entrenched to make any positive progress...and they will drag the rest of us down with them.
To be fair, America isn't having a second wave either. You can't have a second wave if the first wave never ends.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:47 pm
by malchior
YellowKing wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:37 pmThere's literally no upside to what they're doing, because it's only going to hurt the economy even more and even further ruin their election chances.
In other words, I don't even understand the plan from a Republican's point of view. Normally I can at least put myself in their shoes from a political standpoint and go, "Well they're throwing red meat to their base," or "they're capitalizing on fear of immigration." This doesn't even make any sense from their own point of view.
My take is that the fallout is because Trump thinks Fauci is disloyal. Fauci isn't - in fact, the Washington Post piece points out that he is very accommodating. However Trump can't fathom that Fauci is just honest because he implicitly doesn't understand the concept of service or following truth. There is no profit there. Anyway once Trump thinks you are disloyal, he does what he does. That is a long-winded way of saying there is nothing to understand. There is no strategy. Trump just acts on his grievances because he has no impulse control and is a broken and evil.
Edit: Another thought is this is so politically inept that it warms my heart. Fauci has something like 70% approval on coronavirus and Trump's is like 30%. No one believes him so he is just digging his own political grave. I welcome it.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:09 pm
by Unagi
Max Peck wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:55 pm
You can't have a second wave if the first wave never ends.
Why not?
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:12 pm
by Isgrimnur
You can't start the second wave if the first wave hasn't ended.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:25 pm
by NickAragua
Isgrimnur wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:12 pm
You can't start the second wave if the first wave hasn't ended.
Sure you can - this is like one of those tower defence games where you can summon the next wave of bad guys early without finishing the current wave.
Isgrimnur wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:12 pm
You can't start the second wave if the first wave hasn't ended.
Sure you can - this is like one of those tower defence games where you can summon the next wave of bad guys early without finishing the current wave.
But like, also where you are playing with a 3 year old on your lap who keeps demanding that defenses get taken down because "I don't like them!"
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:26 pm
by Remus West
Isgrimnur wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:12 pm
You can't start the second wave if the first wave hasn't ended.
As a former surfer (well, so of surfer) I disagree. Plenty of times I've caught a wave in front of the one I was riding or been caught by a second wave while still riding the first. Of course the waves I was riding were worlds better than these.
the second wave of the coronavirus == a resurgence of rising infections after a reduction in cases.
And that this isn't the 2nd wave because, the virus is simply spreading into new populations or resurging in places that let down their guard too soon.
If it was just the first part... that's fine... this is the 1st wave still....
But they add that other part (and that other part is certainly something we are seeing)...
So, what I am to get from this is that the 2nd wave would have come even if we kept our guard up, but if you put it down too early - you are still on the 1st wave... but I don't think it's as clear cut as that.
What ever the dynamics are, that are behind the 2nd wave, they still are there - and I feel it's possible to have the 2nd wave piggy-backing on our 'prolonged 1st wave'.
No?
Else, what is the difference between " a resurgence of rising infections after a reduction in cases" and "a resurgence of rising infections after you all let your guard down because you saw a reduction in cases"....
New York's biggest daily increase was (twice) about 11.5k.
And Florida is ranked at about 23rd in states, in regard to Testing per/1M Population.... so they can't fall back on that 'just too many tests' reasoning.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:35 am
by Kraken
malchior wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:47 pm
Trump can't fathom that Fauci is just honest because he implicitly doesn't understand the concept of service or following truth. There is no profit there.
Holy moly, trump is Ferenghi. Suddenly it all snaps into place.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 1:51 am
by Defiant
In some good news, NYC just had it's first day with no reported deaths from Covid since March 11th.
Old enough to remember Florida and Texas mocking New York for poor virus response.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:40 am
by LordMortis
Unagi wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:43 pm
And Florida is ranked at about 23rd in states, in regard to Testing per/1M Population.... so they can't fall back on that 'just too many tests' reasoning.
But they aren't dying in mass yet. If they do then "no one could have predicted this." If they don't, then see "see this is exactly as we said it would be." I think "the economy" is willing to sacrifice 50 Floridians a day to the COVID god. I don't know what their crisis level of death toll (or maiming) would be.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:43 am
by YellowKing
Can you imagine the quick, powerful government response if instead of a virus, these were terrorist attacks killing 1,000 Americans a day?
YellowKing wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:37 pmThere's literally no upside to what they're doing, because it's only going to hurt the economy even more and even further ruin their election chances.
In other words, I don't even understand the plan from a Republican's point of view. Normally I can at least put myself in their shoes from a political standpoint and go, "Well they're throwing red meat to their base," or "they're capitalizing on fear of immigration." This doesn't even make any sense from their own point of view.
My take is that the fallout is because Trump thinks Fauci is disloyal. Fauci isn't - in fact, the Washington Post piece points out that he is very accommodating. However Trump can't fathom that Fauci is just honest because he implicitly doesn't understand the concept of service or following truth. There is no profit there. Anyway once Trump thinks you are disloyal, he does what he does. That is a long-winded way of saying there is nothing to understand. There is no strategy. Trump just acts on his grievances because he has no impulse control and is a broken and evil.
Edit: Another thought is this is so politically inept that it warms my heart. Fauci has something like 70% approval on coronavirus and Trump's is like 30%. No one believes him so he is just digging his own political grave. I welcome it.
Personally I think it's Trump's insistence that he "can never be wrong'" that trickles down to his cabinet and the flunkies he hires into positions. Remember that the flunkies he hires are valued for loyalty to Trump and that they've lasted this long because they know what pushes Trump's buttons. So if Trump doesn't want to be proven wrong then you either help provide that worldview or you're gone.
With respect to the rest of the elected Republicans, personally I think its short-term thinking coupled with "power > country". If they go along w/ trying to discredit Fauci and other medical people then they don't bring the wrath of Trump. If they don't bring the wrath of Trump then there's hope they can still get re-elected and remain in power. If it causes their constituents to suffer then so be it.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:57 am
by raydude
YellowKing wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:43 am
Can you imagine the quick, powerful government response if instead of a virus, these were terrorist attacks killing 1,000 Americans a day?
With this Administration? I think Trump would say it could have been anyone. "I don't think anybody knows it was Russia that broke into the DNC," Trump said. "It could be Russia. It could also be China. It could also be someone sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds."
Unagi wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:43 pm
And Florida is ranked at about 23rd in states, in regard to Testing per/1M Population.... so they can't fall back on that 'just too many tests' reasoning.
But they aren't dying in mass yet. If they do then "no one could have predicted this." If they don't, then see "see this is exactly as we said it would be." I think "the economy" is willing to sacrifice 50 Floridians a day to the COVID god. I don't know what their crisis level of death toll (or maiming) would be.
malchior wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:47 pm
Trump can't fathom that Fauci is just honest because he implicitly doesn't understand the concept of service or following truth. There is no profit there.
Holy moly, trump is Ferenghi. Suddenly it all snaps into place.
Honestly, I'd trust a Ferenghi before I'd trust a Trump. Everything they do is for money, not just self-aggrandizement.
malchior wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:47 pm
Trump can't fathom that Fauci is just honest because he implicitly doesn't understand the concept of service or following truth. There is no profit there.
Holy moly, trump is Ferenghi. Suddenly it all snaps into place.
Honestly, I'd trust a Ferenghi before I'd trust a Trump. Everything they do is for money, not just self-aggrandizement.
malchior wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:47 pm
Trump can't fathom that Fauci is just honest because he implicitly doesn't understand the concept of service or following truth. There is no profit there.
Holy moly, trump is Ferenghi. Suddenly it all snaps into place.
Honestly, I'd trust a Ferenghi before I'd trust a Trump. Everything they do is for money, not just self-aggrandizement.
Max Peck wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:55 pm
You can't have a second wave if the first wave never ends.
Why not?
I can already see I missed the battle of semantics, but from a public health / epi perspective, outbreaks (i.e. "waves") have a defined start and end. So in pure public health terms, we cannot have a second wave of COVID until what started in March is declared officially over. As that is apparently not happening, we're just collectively going to continue to ride this first wave.
Now, some might try to make the case (and maybe it's valid) that we can have a second wave in places like NY and NJ. I'll leave that to the academics to argue about. As I mentioned when this was all whipping up in the NE and nothing was happening elsewhere, it won't surprise me if this entire outbreak is modeled as 3+ phases as it's effectively propagating like separate outbreaks. Again, all for modelers and academics to argue about at some point in the distant future. For us? It's just another day in the Corona States of America.
malchior wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:47 pm
Trump can't fathom that Fauci is just honest because he implicitly doesn't understand the concept of service or following truth. There is no profit there.
Holy moly, trump is Ferenghi. Suddenly it all snaps into place.
Honestly, I'd trust a Ferenghi before I'd trust a Trump. Everything they do is for money, not just self-aggrandizement.
malchior wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:47 pm
Trump can't fathom that Fauci is just honest because he implicitly doesn't understand the concept of service or following truth. There is no profit there.
Holy moly, trump is Ferenghi. Suddenly it all snaps into place.
Honestly, I'd trust a Ferenghi before I'd trust a Trump. Everything they do is for money, not just self-aggrandizement.
YellowKing wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:43 am
Can you imagine the quick, powerful government response if instead of a virus, these were terrorist attacks killing 1,000 Americans a day?
With this Administration? I think Trump would say it could have been anyone. "I don't think anybody knows it was Russia that broke into the DNC," Trump said. "It could be Russia. It could also be China. It could also be someone sitting on their bed that weighs 400 pounds."
And with that, our response would be nothing.
I doubt that. Given that he has always seemed to want to be a "war" President. I expect we would launch a retaliatory strike against Iran for anything the Russians did.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:04 am
by Holman
Remus West wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:48 am
I doubt that. Given that he has always seemed to want to be a "war" President. I expect we would launch a retaliatory strike against Iran for anything the Russians did.
I think we've learned that he wants to be the military parade president, not an actual war president. Bolton tried as hard as he could to drag Trump into a couple of wars, but POTUS decided it would distract from his rallies.
The American Academy of Pediatrics once again plunged into the growing debate over school reopening with a strong new statement Friday, making clear that while in-person school provides crucial benefits to children, "Public health agencies must make recommendations based on evidence, not politics." The statement also said that "science and community circumstances must guide decision-making."
The AAP is changing tone from the guidance it issued just over two weeks ago. Then, the organization made a national splash by recommending that education leaders and policymakers "should start with a goal of having students physically present in school."
That was from Friday; not sure how I missed it.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:51 am
by Isgrimnur
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:58 am
by Daveman
Good to see the President retweeting experts in the field of... gameshows?
malchior wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:47 pm
Trump can't fathom that Fauci is just honest because he implicitly doesn't understand the concept of service or following truth. There is no profit there.
Holy moly, trump is Ferenghi. Suddenly it all snaps into place.
The morals of a Ferengi but the intellect of a Pakled.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:03 pm
by Paingod
Huh. I had no idea Chuck was a meathead. Not that I keep track of him at all. His is just a name and face I recognize.
Someone else said it better: Anyone who thinks there's a grand conspiracy between thousands of professionals across multiple disciplines has clearly never tried to get a single project to smoothly operate with just 12 people.
If thousands of professionals are pushing against a thing professionally, it's likely because it's a bad idea and not a nefarious agenda.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:08 pm
by Zaxxon
Paingod wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:03 pmSomeone else said it better: Anyone who thinks there's a grand conspiracy between thousands of professionals across multiple disciplines has clearly never tried to get a single project to smoothly operate with just 12 people.
If thousands of professionals are pushing against a thing professionally, it's likely because it's a bad idea and not a nefarious agenda.
Yep, it's climate change denial, Mk II.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:14 pm
by noxiousdog
RunningMn9 wrote: Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:59 am
How long is it normally?
Skinypupy wrote: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:41 pm
The derp du jour I’ve seen flying around today;
The reason no other country is having a “second wave” is because they are not trying to unseat a President in November.
Conservatives are simply too stupid, stubborn, and politically entrenched to make any positive progress...and they will drag the rest of us down with them.
To be fair, America isn't having a second wave either. You can't have a second wave if the first wave never ends.
Sure you can. It's one of the ways rogue waves are created.
