Ukraine

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Punisher
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Punisher »

Daehawk wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2024 6:26 pm Just jumped in to say my motto of life....FUCK TRUMP!!! HHAAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaard.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:D
Did I miss something?
How is Trump involved with this other than his generic ties with Russia.
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hepcat
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Re: Ukraine

Post by hepcat »

I’m betting that the plans Trump has concepts of also involve Putin walking away with chunks of Ukraine. He may as well just build a wall in the region and establish East and West Ukraine.
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Holman
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Holman »

hepcat wrote: Sun Dec 15, 2024 9:25 pm I’m betting that the plans Trump has concepts of also involve Putin walking away with chunks of Ukraine. He may as well just build a wall in the region and establish East and West Ukraine.
Trump's (Putin's) plan is likely just to declare a permanent ceasefire and let the current lines settle into de facto new borders. Russia is rewarded with territory for its aggression and Ukraine gets nothing but (also likely) a treaty stipulation that it can never join NATO.

Peace! At least until 2026 or so, when Putin makes his play for Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia while Trump ignores our NATO obligations to them.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Isgrimnur »

Ukraine assassinates Russian chemical weapons chief in Moscow bombing
Lieutenant-General Igor Kirillov, commander of the nuclear, biological and chemical forces of the Russian army, died in a blast as he was heading out of a residential block in Moscow, the Russian Investigative Committee said in a statement.

An explosive device was hidden in an electric scooter parked nearby. Kirillov’s aide also died in the attack, the investigative committee said, announcing a criminal investigation. Video footage obtained by POLITICO corroborates that version of events.

Ukraine's Security Service (SBU) claimed responsibility for Kirillov's murder, a Ukrainian law enforcement official told POLITICO after being granted anonymity to discuss the sensitive topic.

"Kirillov was a war criminal and an absolutely legitimate target since he gave orders to use banned chemical weapons against the Ukrainian military. Such an inglorious end awaits all who kill Ukrainians. Retribution for war crimes is inevitable," the official said.

A few hours before the attack, the SBU charged Kirillov in absentia for ordering the massive use of banned chemical weapons against the Ukrainian army on the eastern and southern fronts of the battlefield.
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LordMortis
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LordMortis »

It's hard for me to think of as it assassination or murder if the guy is the head biological and chemical "forces" when other deaths are just "casualties." That or all war killing are murder and most are assassination. Which I suppose is a sort of truth but no one ever refers to it as such.
Last edited by LordMortis on Tue Dec 17, 2024 11:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Blackhawk
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Re: Ukraine

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The difference, I think, was whether it was part of a military field operation ("in battle") and if it was personally targeted.

If your unit commander dies in artillery shelling, they're a war casualty. If they get their throat slit by the enemy in the middle of the night because they're the commander, it's assassination.
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Re: Ukraine

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Alefroth
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Alefroth »

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 11:35 am Ukraine assassinates Russian chemical weapons chief in Moscow bombing
Lieutenant-General Igor Kirillov, commander of the nuclear, biological and chemical forces of the Russian army, died in a blast as he was heading out of a residential block in Moscow, the Russian Investigative Committee said in a statement.

An explosive device was hidden in an electric scooter parked nearby. Kirillov’s aide also died in the attack, the investigative committee said, announcing a criminal investigation. Video footage obtained by POLITICO corroborates that version of events.

Ukraine's Security Service (SBU) claimed responsibility for Kirillov's murder, a Ukrainian law enforcement official told POLITICO after being granted anonymity to discuss the sensitive topic.

"Kirillov was a war criminal and an absolutely legitimate target since he gave orders to use banned chemical weapons against the Ukrainian military. Such an inglorious end awaits all who kill Ukrainians. Retribution for war crimes is inevitable," the official said.

A few hours before the attack, the SBU charged Kirillov in absentia for ordering the massive use of banned chemical weapons against the Ukrainian army on the eastern and southern fronts of the battlefield.
Thoughts and prayers... that Russian generals continue to meet timely ends.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Isgrimnur »

NATO takes over coordination of military aid to Kyiv from US, source says
NATO has taken over coordination of Western military aid to Ukraine from the U.S. as planned, a source said on Tuesday, in a move widely seen as aiming to safeguard the support mechanism against NATO sceptic U.S. President-elect Donald Trump.

The step, coming after a delay of several months, gives NATO a more direct role in the war against Russia's invasion while stopping well short of committing its own forces.

Diplomats, however, acknowledge that the handover to NATO may have a limited effect given that the U.S. under Trump could still deal a major setback to Ukraine by slashing its support, as it is the alliance's dominant power and provides the majority of arms to Kyiv.
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Holman
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Holman »

Blackhawk wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 11:46 am The difference, I think, was whether it was part of a military field operation ("in battle") and if it was personally targeted.

If your unit commander dies in artillery shelling, they're a war casualty. If they get their throat slit by the enemy in the middle of the night because they're the commander, it's assassination.
We like to say that targeted assassination is something different than regular warfare, presumably because the latter targets mass groups rather than individuals.

But there are plenty of examples of choosing individual targets in warfare. The 1943 killing of Yamamoto is the classic example: US intelligence decoded the route his transport would be flying and sent planes to intercept him and his escorts. Was this an assassination? Presumably it would not have been one if a random patrol had encountered the planes and shot them down without knowing who was onboard.

Attacking lines of transport was a huge part of WW2. Seeking and killing unarmed or outmatched units was important to victory, and it's not really a "battle" when fighter-bombers destroy a train or submarines sink a cargo ship. So what makes it assassination? Knowing an individual human target's name?

On a smaller scale, is it assassination or regular warfare when a soldier with a scope chooses to target an officer rather than a regular grunt?

Interesting questions.
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Blackhawk
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Blackhawk »

Holman wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 6:38 pm But there are plenty of examples of choosing individual targets in warfare. The 1943 killing of Yamamoto is the classic example: US intelligence decoded the route his transport would be flying and sent planes to intercept him and his escorts. Was this an assassination? Presumably it would not have been one if a random patrol had encountered the planes and shot them down without knowing who was onboard.
In that case, I'd say 'assassination.' It goes back to 'personally targeted', that the intention was to kill a specific individual or individuals based on their own qualities/actions/etc. The whole point was to kill Yamamoto, and the rest were incidental.
On a smaller scale, is it assassination or regular warfare when a soldier with a scope chooses to target an officer rather than a regular grunt?
That's where it starts to get fuzzy. I suppose you might argue that premeditation comes into play (vs. a target of opportunity), but eventually it becomes nitpicky.
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gilraen
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Re: Ukraine

Post by gilraen »

Holman wrote: Tue Dec 17, 2024 6:38 pm On a smaller scale, is it assassination or regular warfare when a soldier with a scope chooses to target an officer rather than a regular grunt?
It's a pretty subtle difference to me because you can call it an assassination but the purpose behind it is regular warfare. I.e. you are killing an officer because it would affect the outcome of the warfare, so the reasons for targeting them are external (not because of something this officer specifically did as an individual but because of their role - with the person filling the role being interchangeable).
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Holman »

It may be that "assassination" only has meaning outside of a declared war.

There are plenty of specific targets chosen in warfare, and it's normal for the enemy HQ to be one of those. Obviously you're choosing to target the headquarters rather than the supply dump because you expect to do more damage to the enemy that way, i.e. by killing high-ranking leaders. It would be odd to say that this is "assassination" when you know exactly who those leaders are and "regular warfare" when you don't.

Alternately, maybe "assassination" really only refers to a certain kind of tactics: attacking when unexpected, perhaps far from the normal fighting, and using stealth rather than brute force. But this is a distinction that gets fuzzy pretty quickly too.

I think the main reason this distinction is interesting at all is that we typically think there's a moral difference between assassination (secret, personal, unfair) and regular warfare (open, impersonal, fair)--even when the latter can cause so much more suffering and horror.
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LordMortis
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Re: Ukraine

Post by LordMortis »

Holman wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2024 2:52 pm I think the main reason this distinction is interesting at all is that we typically think there's a moral difference between assassination (secret, personal, unfair) and regular warfare (open, impersonal, fair)--even when the latter can cause so much more suffering and horror.
This is pretty close what really strikes me and I can't put in to words as well.
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Max Peck »

Sounds like another smoking-related workplace accident in Russia. :coffee:

Massive explosions near Severomorsk, in Arctic Russia
There is no information made public that can tell what exploded inside the military boundaries south of the headquarters of Russia’s Northern Fleet.

A video recording was posted Wednesday evening on social media in Murmansk of what appears to be a massive explosion in the horizon. The Barents Observer has geolocated the filming position from Skalnaya street No. 9, which is on the top of the hill in Oktyabrskiy District. The explosion, which lasts only a few seconds, can be seen in a distance of several kilometers to the north.

Here are dozens of military objects, including the Severomorsk-1 naval airbase and weapons’ storages and bunkers.

Severomorsk-1 is 13 km from the location of the video-recording. The airbase is the second largest on the Kola Peninsula and accommodates both fighter jets, bombers and maritime surveillance aircraft. A squadron of Ka-27 helicopters is also located at the airfield.

At a distance of 11 km from the video recording is a outdoor weapons storage. This is some 2 km southwest from the end of the runway. To the northwest of Severomorsk-1 is several installations with mobile anti-aircraft missiles and antennas for electronic warfare.

Locals in Murmansk are debating on Vkontakte about what could have caused the massive explosions that shakes windows and walls in the district. One writes that the two explosions happened at 17.24 and 17.27 local time (15.24 and 15.27 CET).

“There were two explosions. I live in the Starostina Street, at the 8th floor.

The house was shaking. It was terrible,” a woman writes in a comment on a local social media channel.

The video on social media, however, show only one explosion.

There are no official reports about any plane crash or accidental explosions of weapons in the area.

Neither Ukraine, nor Russia, have posted any information about a possible drone attack, or downing of a drone in the area of Severomorsk. That said, Murmansk officials kept silent about several of Ukrainian drones that flew into the Kola Peninsula in July, August and September this year.

Severomorsk is nearly 1,900 km north of Russia’s border with Ukraine.
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Re: Ukraine

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Finland boards oil tanker suspected of causing internet, power cable outages
Finnish authorities said they boarded and took control of an oil tanker traveling from Russia on Thursday, on suspicion it had caused the outage of an undersea power cable and three internet lines connecting Finland and Estonia a day earlier.

The Cook Islands-registered ship, named by authorities as the Eagle S, was boarded by a Finnish coast guard crew which took command in the Baltic Sea and sailed the vessel to Finnish waters, a coast guard official told a press conference.
...
The Finnish customs service said it had seized the vessel’s cargo and that the Eagle S was believed to belong to Russia’s so-called shadow fleet of aging tankers that seek to evade sanctions on the sale of Russian oil.
...
Baltic Sea nations are on high alert for potential acts of sabotage following a string of outages of power cables, telecom links and gas pipelines since 2022, although subsea equipment is also subject to technical malfunction and accidents.

Repairing the 170 km (106 miles) Estlink 2 interconnector will take months, and the outage could cause a tense power supply situation during winter, operator Fingrid said in a statement.
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Max Peck
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Re: Ukraine

Post by Max Peck »

Russia is having a run of bad luck with transport ships. While transiting from St Petersburg to Vladivostok via the Med (and totally not going to Tobruk or Tartus), one had engine trouble and the other suffered some sort of engine room accident that resulted in the ship being lost.

Russian ship under US sanctions sinks after engine room blast
A Russian cargo ship, Ursa Major, has sunk in the Mediterranean between Spain and Algeria after an explosion in the engine room, Russia's foreign ministry has confirmed.

It said 14 members of the crew had been rescued and taken to the Spanish port of Cartagena but that two others were missing.

Ursa Major left port in St Petersburg 12 days ago, according to Russian news agency Interfax.

The ship's owner said it was on its way to Vladivostok in Russia's Far East carrying two cranes for the port weighing 380 tonnes apiece, although the destination could not be confirmed independently.

Before Ursa Major sank, Spain's Salvamento Marítimo maritime rescue agency said 14 people were found on a lifeboat and taken safely to Spain and a Russian warship then arrived in the area to take charge of the rescue operation.

Ursa Major was in the same area of the Med as another sanctioned Russian ship, Sparta, when it ran into trouble and the two ships had been spotted heading through the English Channel last week, reportedly under escort.
On Monday, the HUR reported that the Sparta had broken down off Portugal, but the problem had been fixed. Ursa Major was originally known as Sparta III, so it was not clear which ship the Ukrainians were referring to.

However, the Sparta also got into difficulty a week ago, in rough seas off Brittany in the north-west of France. Radio France Inter reported that the Russian cargo ship initially did not respond to French communications on Tuesday 17 December, until acknowledging it had a problem.

"I'm in trouble. My engines are currently down, the tiller isn't responding. We're going to try to repair it in the coming minutes," RFI reported the ship's radio as saying.

After drifting for 61 minutes, the Sparta said it was back on course.
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