The Kamala Harris presidential candidacy

[YellowKing]

Ah thanks for the correction gilraen. I somehow completely missed that. I was going off her remarks from pre-2020 where she always talked about staying out of politics for fear of dividing her fans.

I'm sure Vance's insults against childless cat ladies was a bridge too far for Tay-Tay.

[waitingtoconnect]

And Fox is doubling down on attacking Taylor Swift. It's almost like they want DonOld to lose. And she hasn't even announced her endorsement yet (though there was a not too subtle picture of her with a silhouette of Harris). Maybe she is waiting for the convention to put it over the top.

They are hoping the threat of conservative moms stopping their kids from listening to Taylor Swift and other artists like her is that it will hit her and her label in the pocketbook and intimidate them into staying quiet.

[Zaxxon]

And Fox is doubling down on attacking Taylor Swift. It's almost like they want DonOld to lose. And she hasn't even announced her endorsement yet (though there was a not too subtle picture of her with a silhouette of Harris). Maybe she is waiting for the convention to put it over the top.

They are hoping the threat of conservative moms stopping their kids from listening to Taylor Swift and other artists like her is that it will hit her and her label in the pocketbook and intimidate them into staying quiet.

LOL. As though moms of any political bent can get between their daughters and T. Swift…

[waitingtoconnect]

It’s a well worn path; they want to preemptively Dixie Chicks her. And then try to get their conservative mates in the recording studios to push her to be politically “non partisan”.

Unfortunately she is so popular if she ran for president she’d win and if she didn’t our daughters would pout until we gave up and overthrew the government just to get some peace.

[Jaymann]

I've confessed this fact on here before, but I've discovered over the past couple years that I'm a Swiftie. That is to say that I'm an admitted out of the closet Taylor Swift fan. I can't help it.

She writes/creates good music and she does things like no other singer. While the Kanyes of the world shelter themselves from reality and toss down superiority edicts to the masses, Taylor Swift continues to invite fans into her home for private screenings, responds to many of them over social media, surprises some of them with Christmas presents, etc. etc. She doesn't have to do any of this stuff, but she does because she says it keeps her grounded and brings some normalcy to her otherwise very not-normal world.

I used to have a rule about albums that before I would purchase one it would have to have at least 3 songs that I really liked (back when we used to buy albums in stores). Taylor Swift's 1989 album has smashed that standard and continues to put out songs that I enjoy.

Anyway... She just put out a new video and it compelled me to put out an admiration thread again.

Wildest Dreams

It's been criticized by the new class of perpetually offended people we have in this country as being 'racist' because it takes place in Africa but features white people. I took a look and it is set in 1950s Hollywood film backdrop and appears in no way racist to me.

Yellowking: SHAKE IT OFF!

But is it enough to get msduncan to vote for Harris?

[Grifman]

https://twitter.com/phillipspobrien/sta ... NcXCfN8s1g

[hepcat]

As many have already joked, I'm sure the ketchup is flying at Mar-a-Lago.

[waitingtoconnect]

Maga is just thinking that the polls are faked or that the polls only show deregistered voters, illegal aliens and people who shouldn’t be allowed to vote are intending to help Kamala rig the election in a massive conspiracy led by George Soros, Satan and Nancy pelosi.

[LordMortis]

illegal aliens and people who shouldn’t be allowed to vote are intending to help Kamala rig the election

This. Just like they did in 2020 and 2016...

[Kraken]

I hope that carries over to congressional races as well. A Harris administration with a blue Congress would be a wonderful thing, and a knockout blow for MAGA. So much losing!

[waitingtoconnect]

illegal aliens and people who shouldn’t be allowed to vote are intending to help Kamala rig the election

This. Just like they did in 2020 and 2016...

Her dance moves and laughs are satanic messaging to call out the immunised. These calls activate the bill gates designed microchips implanted in these people encouraging them to vote early and often. It’s the lack of religious education in our schools and the teaching of maths and science that makes people more susceptible to what the liberals call “common sense”. “Common sense” and “appealing to civic duty” blunts the effectiveness of alternative facts.

[Carpet_pissr]

I hope that carries over to congressional races as well. A Harris administration with a blue Congress would be a wonderful thing, and a knockout blow for MAGA. So much losing!

I'm of the strong opinion that MAGA is here to stay, because it's not a Donald Trump thing anymore. He just brought it to the forefront and showed that people can openly be their inner assholes, and still win a general election. Also, this is a global trend, it's not just here. Anti-democracy trends are way up in the past x years, all over the place. Right-wing populism is a lot older than Trump, and will be around long after his sorry ass is dead.

[waitingtoconnect]

I hope that carries over to congressional races as well. A Harris administration with a blue Congress would be a wonderful thing, and a knockout blow for MAGA. So much losing!

I'm of the strong opinion that MAGA is here to stay, because it's not a Donald Trump thing anymore. He just brought it to the forefront and showed that people can openly be their inner assholes, and still win a general election. Also, this is a global trend, it's not just here. Anti-democracy trends are way up in the past x years, all over the place. Right-wing populism is a lot older than Trump, and will be around long after his sorry ass is dead.

They’ve always been here sadly. Nativist movements have existed politically since the Know nothings in the mid 1800s before the civil war.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know_Nothing

[Jaymann]

I hope that carries over to congressional races as well. A Harris administration with a blue Congress would be a wonderful thing, and a knockout blow for MAGA. So much losing!

I'm of the strong opinion that MAGA is here to stay, because it's not a Donald Trump thing anymore. He just brought it to the forefront and showed that people can openly be their inner assholes, and still win a general election. Also, this is a global trend, it's not just here. Anti-democracy trends are way up in the past x years, all over the place. Right-wing populism is a lot older than Trump, and will be around long after his sorry ass is dead.

You make some good points but consider:

Comey and his October surprise may have cost HRC the election.
After a disastrous 4 years of DonOld he was exposed for what he is.
The existential threat of his re-election was enough to elect Biden.
That threat is still there (with some doubling down) to motivate the electorate.
Harris is wildly more popular than Biden.
The MAGAs have never been close to a majority, but have gamed the system for minority rule.
They have stepped a bridge too far in essentially outlawing abortion.

I am not so sure a MAGA wannabe can replace DonOld and get away with the things he spouts off.

Politics is always a pendulum, but at this moment in time, IMO it is swinging in the direction of sanity.

[YellowKing]

Movements come and go. MAGA will die, something else will take it place. I don't think anyone is suggesting that right-wing ideology as a whole is going to disappear in a puff of smoke, but certainly movements which are unable to field electable candidates are forced to evolve.

[Carpet_pissr]

Movements come and go. MAGA will die, something else will take it place. I don't think anyone is suggesting that right-wing ideology as a whole is going to disappear in a puff of smoke, but certainly movements which are unable to field electable candidates are forced to evolve.

Yep, consider the progression, in this example starting with the (modern) Tea Party > Freedom Caucus > MAGA> Can't wait to see what comes next! Each one of those was worst than the last IMO (for the country as a whole, I think, not just for the Democrats/liberals/progressives that had to deal with them).

[Kraken]

I hope that carries over to congressional races as well. A Harris administration with a blue Congress would be a wonderful thing, and a knockout blow for MAGA. So much losing!

I'm of the strong opinion that MAGA is here to stay, because it's not a Donald Trump thing anymore. He just brought it to the forefront and showed that people can openly be their inner assholes, and still win a general election. Also, this is a global trend, it's not just here. Anti-democracy trends are way up in the past x years, all over the place. Right-wing populism is a lot older than Trump, and will be around long after his sorry ass is dead.

You make some good points but consider:

Comey and his October surprise may have cost HRC the election.
After a disastrous 4 years of DonOld he was exposed for what he is.
The existential threat of his re-election was enough to elect Biden.
That threat is still there (with some doubling down) to motivate the electorate.
Harris is wildly more popular than Biden.
The MAGAs have never been close to a majority, but have gamed the system for minority rule.
They have stepped a bridge too far in essentially outlawing abortion.

I am not so sure a MAGA wannabe can replace DonOld and get away with the things he spouts off.

Politics is always a pendulum, but at this moment in time, IMO it is swinging in the direction of sanity.

MAGA-type extremism has always been with us and always will be, but it spends most of its time marginalized, if not actually hiding.

Trump won ONE election, just barely, due to a confluence of factors -- mostly, a much-hated challenger who was a lousy campaigner and an establishment that didn't take him seriously. He and his followers either lost outright or drastically underperformed expectations in '18, '20, and '22. If they get soundly trounced again in '24, politicians will move on. Everything else is second to winning elections.

[Hyena]

My one consolation in this is if Harris/Walz win, at least we know there's no way in hell HE can run again.

[Zaxxon]

My one consolation in this is if Harris/Walz win, at least we know there's no way in hell HE can run again.

Why u tempt fate?

[Kurth]

And Fox is doubling down on attacking Taylor Swift. It's almost like they want DonOld to lose. And she hasn't even announced her endorsement yet (though there was a not too subtle picture of her with a silhouette of Harris). Maybe she is waiting for the convention to put it over the top.

They are hoping the threat of conservative moms stopping their kids from listening to Taylor Swift and other artists like her is that it will hit her and her label in the pocketbook and intimidate them into staying quiet.

LOL. As though moms of any political bent can get between their daughters and T. Swift…

Or the daughters can get between their Moms and T. Swift! Have you seen videos from her concerts???? Huge Mom+daughter thing.

[Kurth]

I hope that carries over to congressional races as well. A Harris administration with a blue Congress would be a wonderful thing, and a knockout blow for MAGA. So much losing!

I'm of the strong opinion that MAGA is here to stay, because it's not a Donald Trump thing anymore. He just brought it to the forefront and showed that people can openly be their inner assholes, and still win a general election. Also, this is a global trend, it's not just here. Anti-democracy trends are way up in the past x years, all over the place. Right-wing populism is a lot older than Trump, and will be around long after his sorry ass is dead.

I don't think this is one susceptible to a firm conclusion one way or the other, but I fundamentally disagree with your premise. MAGA is a cult of personality. There is no one that can step into Trump's shoes. No one.

[Holman]

I won't be surprised if we see both Taylor and Beyonce at the DNC.

Let's see Trump wish away those viewership ratings.

[Pyperkub]

I won't be surprised if we see both Taylor and Beyonce at the DNC.

Let's see Trump wish away those viewership ratings.

I'd be surprised by Taylor. Tho, if it leaked that she might, and TFG attacks he? Then maybe that forces her...

[LordMortis]

I don't think this is one susceptible to a firm conclusion one way or the other, but I fundamentally disagree with your premise. MAGA is a cult of personality. There is no one that can step into Trump's shoes. No one.

Musk?

[waitingtoconnect]

Would they change the foreign born rule for him?

Fact check on trumps “facts”:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0jpn2q76n1o

[LordMortis]

Never mind then. I forgot he's a dirty no good immigrant who should be stripped of all his ill gotten government feedbag and resulting money coming from it and sent home to his shithole country.

[Unagi]

I don't think this is one susceptible to a firm conclusion one way or the other, but I fundamentally disagree with your premise. MAGA is a cult of personality. There is no one that can step into Trump's shoes. No one.

Musk?

I'm with Kurth on this. I realize we will be hearing from "them" for years after Trump - but this is his movement. When the "MTGs" try to grab the wheel, they all tear each other to pieces.

[Grifman]

I hope that carries over to congressional races as well. A Harris administration with a blue Congress would be a wonderful thing, and a knockout blow for MAGA. So much losing!

I'm of the strong opinion that MAGA is here to stay, because it's not a Donald Trump thing anymore. He just brought it to the forefront and showed that people can openly be their inner assholes, and still win a general election. Also, this is a global trend, it's not just here. Anti-democracy trends are way up in the past x years, all over the place. Right-wing populism is a lot older than Trump, and will be around long after his sorry ass is dead.

I disagree. MAGA is not here to stay, because is it solely a personality cult built around Donald Trump. When he goes, MAGA goes. I do agree that populism is here to stay, but I don’t right now see anyone able to channel and use it like Trump. If he loses, it will be interesting to see where the Republican Party goes.

[Carpet_pissr]

I hope that carries over to congressional races as well. A Harris administration with a blue Congress would be a wonderful thing, and a knockout blow for MAGA. So much losing!

I'm of the strong opinion that MAGA is here to stay, because it's not a Donald Trump thing anymore. He just brought it to the forefront and showed that people can openly be their inner assholes, and still win a general election. Also, this is a global trend, it's not just here. Anti-democracy trends are way up in the past x years, all over the place. Right-wing populism is a lot older than Trump, and will be around long after his sorry ass is dead.

I disagree. MAGA is not here to stay, because is it solely a personality cult built around Donald Trump. When he goes, MAGA goes. I do agree that populism is here to stay, but I don’t right now see anyone able to channel and use it like Trump. If he loses, it will be interesting to see where the Republican Party goes.

So you think if Trump kicked it tomorrow, MAGA and all the momentum, ideology and cultural camaraderie and like-mindedness (anger and fear about losing their status at the top of the cultural food chain) that they have found would just *poof* disappear? Wishful thinking. These people are FIRED UP and ANGRY, as I am sure you know. An army full of bitter male and female Karens does not just simply "go away" IMO, once rattled and stirred into action.

Again I will point to trends outside of our own little sphere, and how those similar trends have nothing at all to do with Trump. Unless you think he's some kind of Peter Wiggin character, and this global movement started and ends with JDT?

And "here to stay" needs some qualification I think: in the short to medium term at least...not talking about 50 years from now (God help us).

[Unagi]

So you think if Trump kicked it tomorrow, MAGA and all the momentum, ideology and cultural camaraderie and like-mindedness (anger and fear about losing their status at the top of the cultural food chain) that they have found would just *poof* disappear?

Quite literally NOT what he said.

or maybe he did.

But I don't think MAGA will 'poof' - it will flounder.

[Carpet_pissr]

So you think if Trump kicked it tomorrow, MAGA and all the momentum, ideology and cultural camaraderie and like-mindedness (anger and fear about losing their status at the top of the cultural food chain) that they have found would just *poof* disappear?

Quite literally NOT what he said.

I think he can answer for himself, since it was a question, not restating what he said.

Also "When he goes, MAGA goes." That's a literal quote.

[Unagi]

fair enough (and I edited, so - you were replying to me before I made that edit where I changed my statement a bit)

[Unagi]

I think he can answer for himself, since it was a question, not restating what he said.

Also "When he goes, MAGA goes." That's a literal quote.

I will (obviously) not get in the way of him answering for himself, I just felt your reply took his statement a little too far.


And, you know, since I mostly kinda agree (I think) with him, I also felt I could reply. I'm sorry though - this is your conversation with him. I'll back off.

[Unagi]

I think the word "MAGA" means a whole lot and probably isn't helpful for this specific question.


Have the idiots found each other? YES - and they will always have their MAGA hats.

Will they have a unified voice of hate and gel behind one man that makes everyone fear him? No.

[Carpet_pissr]

I think the word "MAGA" means a whole lot and probably isn't helpful for this specific question.


Have the idiots found each other? YES - and they will always have their MAGA hats.

Will they have a unified voice of hate and gel behind one man that makes everyone fear him? No.

My argument is that while Trump was the lightning rod that sparked "MAGA" into existence, it already existed in a less organized way, in the sludge of the fringes. Now that they are coalesced, I don't see them dissolving with or without him. The hate, fear and bitterness is too strong. The ideas are are old as the hills. MAGA is (now) much bigger than Trump. And while he obviously is the OG deplorable whisperer, there will be someone else to take the realm once he's out of the picture. Preferably in a jail cell somewhere, but however.

I think we all agree that his biggest contribution was to let these people feel ok about their terrible worldviews. And not to just feel ok, but to be open and vocal about those views. That's not something only Trump can do, but he did it first. There is now a roadmap for others without his "first mover" status, "charisma" (ugh), and whatever X factor you want to assign to him.

[raydude]

I think the word "MAGA" means a whole lot and probably isn't helpful for this specific question.


Have the idiots found each other? YES - and they will always have their MAGA hats.

Will they have a unified voice of hate and gel behind one man that makes everyone fear him? No.

My argument is that while Trump was the lightning rod that sparked "MAGA" into existence, it already existed in a less organized way, in the sludge of the fringes. Now that they are coalesced, I don't see them dissolving with or without him. The hate, fear and bitterness is too strong. The ideas are are old as the hills. MAGA is (now) much bigger than Trump. And while he obviously is the OG deplorable whisperer, there will be someone else to take the realm once he's out of the picture. Preferably in a jail cell somewhere, but however.

I think we all agree that his biggest contribution was to let these people feel ok about their terrible worldviews. And not to just feel ok, but to be open and vocal about those views. That's not something only Trump can do, but he did it first. There is now a roadmap for others without his "first mover" status, "charisma" (ugh), and whatever X factor you want to assign to him.

Don't forget, hate and fear sells. If it didn't then you wouldn't see advertisers on Fox News, on conservative radio, and new right-wing TV news channels. There's money to be made in stoking the fires of hate and fear and that's not going away when Trump leaves.

[Grifman]

I hope that carries over to congressional races as well. A Harris administration with a blue Congress would be a wonderful thing, and a knockout blow for MAGA. So much losing!

I'm of the strong opinion that MAGA is here to stay, because it's not a Donald Trump thing anymore. He just brought it to the forefront and showed that people can openly be their inner assholes, and still win a general election. Also, this is a global trend, it's not just here. Anti-democracy trends are way up in the past x years, all over the place. Right-wing populism is a lot older than Trump, and will be around long after his sorry ass is dead.

I disagree. MAGA is not here to stay, because is it solely a personality cult built around Donald Trump. When he goes, MAGA goes. I do agree that populism is here to stay, but I don’t right now see anyone able to channel and use it like Trump. If he loses, it will be interesting to see where the Republican Party goes.

So you think if Trump kicked it tomorrow, MAGA and all the momentum, ideology and cultural camaraderie and like-mindedness (anger and fear about losing their status at the top of the cultural food chain) that they have found would just *poof* disappear? Wishful thinking. These people are FIRED UP and ANGRY, as I am sure you know. An army full of bitter male and female Karens does not just simply "go away" IMO, once rattled and stirred into action.

Again I will point to trends outside of our own little sphere, and how those similar trends have nothing at all to do with Trump. Unless you think he's some kind of Peter Wiggin character, and this global movement started and ends with JDT?

And "here to stay" needs some qualification I think: in the short to medium term at least...not talking about 50 years from now (God help us).

No, the issues that gave rise to MAGA would still be there, as well as the people that hold to these beliefs. However, as I stated -and you ignored - populism would still be there. I never said the issues or the people would go away as you seem to think I did.

But without Trump there is no MAGA - it is his slogan and he is the centralizing cult figure at the center. And I don’t think - or at least I hope not - that there is any one person who could keep it all together.

My guess is that the MAGA movement will splinter - the outright racists will go one way, the protectionists another, the anti-immigrants another, the religious conservatives another, etc. If Trump loses, movements like this tend to splinter if not successful and the leader passes on - everyone seeks to place the blame for failure somewhere, and everyone fights to be the new leader.

MAGA will be gone with Trump.

[YellowKing]

Trump's grip on the voters (and by extension, the party) is not because of his policy stances. They're not hanging banners in their garages and wearing tampons on their ears because they like his views on the border and abortion. That is pure personality cult, and without him, that grip on the voters ceases to exist.

That does not mean that the underlying MAGA policies disappear. Anti-wokeism, book bans, strict abortion laws, anti-LGBTQ+ legislation - I don't think anyone is arguing that stuff vanishes overnight. But without the cover of Trump's massive sway over voters, the ability to push that agenda is greatly weakened. Do you think with no Trump, moderate Republicans are going to rally behind the extremist right-wing vision of America? That was only possible because they had no other choice but to go along or face his wrath and the wrath of his followers.

Without Trump, the door is opened for the party to express less extreme views without the same fear of reprisal. Pete Buttigieg agrees with me, so that's all the confirmation I need.

[Pyperkub]

I think the word "MAGA" means a whole lot and probably isn't helpful for this specific question.


Have the idiots found each other? YES - and they will always have their MAGA hats.

Will they have a unified voice of hate and gel behind one man that makes everyone fear him? No.

My argument is that while Trump was the lightning rod that sparked "MAGA" into existence, it already existed in a less organized way, in the sludge of the fringes. Now that they are coalesced, I don't see them dissolving with or without him. The hate, fear and bitterness is too strong. The ideas are are old as the hills. MAGA is (now) much bigger than Trump. And while he obviously is the OG deplorable whisperer, there will be someone else to take the realm once he's out of the picture. Preferably in a jail cell somewhere, but however.

I think we all agree that his biggest contribution was to let these people feel ok about their terrible worldviews. And not to just feel ok, but to be open and vocal about those views. That's not something only Trump can do, but he did it first. There is now a roadmap for others without his "first mover" status, "charisma" (ugh), and whatever X factor you want to assign to him.

Don't forget, hate and fear sells. If it didn't then you wouldn't see advertisers on Fox News, on conservative radio, and new right-wing TV news channels. There's money to be made in stoking the fires of hate and fear and that's not going away when Trump leaves.

while fear sells, what I think we do see is that some people stop buying, especially as it keeps getting pushed.

Think Soviet Russia and Pravda. People learned to read between the lines, even with full state sponsored misinformation /FUD everywhere.

[Jaymann]

Kamala Harris makes the cover of Time Magazine.



DonOld complained to Musk about how good she looks. Oddly he said she looks like Melania.