The Confederate Flag Thread

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:06 am

em2nought wrote:So I'm a bad guy because I hope that kid didn't intentionally kill that girl, or try to kill the others? Great! Did I say he didn't do it intentionally? No, I think he probably did. I just wish he didn't. I'd hate to take away your happiness derived from someone on the right finally killing someone on the left.

The problem is that you didn't say it that way. If you had posted this instead of what you did post, I don't think anyone would have batted an eye at you. Maybe you should consider how/what you post rather than blame others for how they perceive you.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:11 am

Grifman wrote:
em2nought wrote:So I'm a bad guy because I hope that kid didn't intentionally kill that girl, or try to kill the others? Great! Did I say he didn't do it intentionally? No, I think he probably did. I just wish he didn't. I'd hate to take away your happiness derived from someone on the right finally killing someone on the left.
The problem is that you didn't say it that way. If you had posted this instead of what you did post, I don't think anyone would have batted an eye at you. Maybe you should consider how/what you post rather than blame others for how they perceive you.

Eh. What he posted here still has issues. He's claiming that people in the thread are happy that Heather Heyer was murdered in Charlottesville. I mean, really? That's how he ends the post?

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:17 am

Oh god fuckface is going on about tearing down monuments now. We get it! You need to keep the KKK on your side!

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:21 am

Rip wrote:
Carpet_pissr wrote:
Holman wrote:“You cannot be against General Lee and be for General Washington,” the email reads, “there literally is no difference between the two men.”
Except one was a general on the losing side of a great war, and the other was a general on the winning side of a great war.
And that one was for "a more perfect union" and the other was trying to tear that union apart.
And one was a founding father of our country, the other wasn't.
And one has monuments due to his role in creating and leading the country. The other has monuments due to his role with the Confederacy (again, LOST, and on wrong side of history).
But yeah, other than those and a couple of dozen other glaring differences, LITERALLY the same.

Pro tip: your boss HATES losers! Also, I expect a high powered attorney to be a little more careful in the words he chooses. LITERALLY no difference? IDIOT.
You should read up a little on Lee, he most certainly didn't WANT to tear the Union apart.

You're right, thanks. Edited my post.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 9:35 am

pr0ner wrote:
Grifman wrote:
em2nought wrote:So I'm a bad guy because I hope that kid didn't intentionally kill that girl, or try to kill the others? Great! Did I say he didn't do it intentionally? No, I think he probably did. I just wish he didn't. I'd hate to take away your happiness derived from someone on the right finally killing someone on the left.
The problem is that you didn't say it that way. If you had posted this instead of what you did post, I don't think anyone would have batted an eye at you. Maybe you should consider how/what you post rather than blame others for how they perceive you.
Eh. What he posted here still has issues. He's claiming that people in the thread are happy that Heather Heyer was murdered in Charlottesville. I mean, really? That's how he ends the post?

What offends me is that he thinks there is any grey area on this one.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:17 am

em2nought wrote:So I'm a bad guy

Yes.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:22 am

Trump's on Twitter tripling down on how awful it is that we're destroying our history by removing these statues.

It's funny how once again, "it's a decision that should be made at the local level" only holds when it's certain decisions. The local towns/cities are deciding to remove these, and that's TERRIBLE.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:32 am

"Destroying our history."

Most of the statues threatened with removal were put up during the rise of Jim Crow or in reaction to the Civil Rights movement.

(Incidentally, one of Trump's golf resorts features a monument to a civil war battle that never took place. They made it up to add an air of "history" to the course.)

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:35 am

And look - we don't need to tear down Confederate statutes necessarily. I would be totally fine with keeping them but just replacing their plaques with ones that say "This asshole helped lead a rebellion against a lawfully constituted democratic government that killed hundreds of thousands with the goal of perpetuating the enslavement of millions."

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:58 am

Holman wrote:(Incidentally, one of Trump's golf resorts features a monument to a civil war battle that never took place. They made it up to add an air of "history" to the course.)

What?? I know I shouldn't be surprised by this, but the depth of his insanity never ceases to amaze.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:59 am

Holman wrote:"Destroying our history."

This might be true for Trump, but the rest of us are capable of reading books.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:59 am

Captain Caveman wrote:
Holman wrote:(Incidentally, one of Trump's golf resorts features a monument to a civil war battle that never took place. They made it up to add an air of "history" to the course.)
What?? I know I shouldn't be surprised by this, but the depth of his insanity never ceases to amaze.

Cite! Please! I'm not proud of it but my schadenfreude against Trump now goes to 11.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 10:59 am

Amazing scene in Durham, NC this morning:

https://twitter.com/CelesteHeadlee/stat ... 8321544192

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:00 am

Captain Caveman wrote:
Holman wrote:(Incidentally, one of Trump's golf resorts features a monument to a civil war battle that never took place. They made it up to add an air of "history" to the course.)
What?? I know I shouldn't be surprised by this, but the depth of his insanity never ceases to amaze.

Fake News Golf Digest:

“Many great American soldiers, both of the North and South, died at this spot. The casualties were so great that the water would turn red and thus became known as ‘The River of Blood.’ It is my great honor to have preserved this important section of the Potomac River!”

Nice sentiment, small problem: there apparently was no such battle.

The Times checked with various historians in the area who had trouble tying the site of Trump's course to any such event.

“No. Uh-uh. No way. Nothing like that ever happened there,” Richard Gillespie, the executive director of the Mosby Heritage Area Association, told the Times.

Gillespie went on to say the closest thing to what Trump was describing was a battle 11 miles up the river in 1861. “The River of Blood?” he said. “Nope, not there.”

Trump, who is a leading Republican candidate for President, questioned how historians could dispute the battle. "How would they know," he told the Times. "Were they there?"

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:01 am

LordMortis wrote:
Captain Caveman wrote:
Holman wrote:(Incidentally, one of Trump's golf resorts features a monument to a civil war battle that never took place. They made it up to add an air of "history" to the course.)
What?? I know I shouldn't be surprised by this, but the depth of his insanity never ceases to amaze.
Cite! Please! I'm not proud of it but my schadenfreude against Trump now goes to 11.

Here you go.

The plaque says:

“Many great American soldiers, both of the North and South, died at this spot. The casualties were so great that the water would turn red and thus became known as ‘The River of Blood.’ It is my great honor to have preserved this important section of the Potomac River!”

But this never happened. It's just a lie. Absolutely fucking amazing.

And I love Trump's response;

Trump, who is a leading Republican candidate for President, questioned how historians could dispute the battle. "How would they know," he told the Times. "Were they there?"

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:03 am

Civil Disobedience does not hide from the law. It changes it. (Although it also doesn't vandalize...)

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:07 am

SMH

Trump, who is a leading Republican candidate for President, questioned how historians could dispute the battle. "How would they know," he told the Times. "Were they there?"

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:17 am

LordMortis wrote:SMH

Trump, who is a leading Republican candidate for President, questioned how historians could dispute the battle. "How would they know," he told the Times. "Were they there?"

This is one of the funniest things I have ever read.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:23 am

It makes me sad because that one line should have disqualified him alone. Look where severely slipping standards have us now.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:32 am

Captain Caveman wrote:Amazing scene in Durham, NC this morning:
https://twitter.com/CelesteHeadlee/stat ... 8321544192

I AM SPARTACUS!

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:46 am

Also, can we talk about how terrible the wording is on the plaque?

Really bad plaque wrote:Many great American soldiers, both of the North and South, died at this spot. The casualties were so great that the water would turn red and thus became known as ‘The River of Blood.’ It is my great honor to have preserved this important section of the Potomac River!”'

Seriously, I would've been embarrassed to include that passage in any paper I wrote past about the sixth grade.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:51 am

Octavious wrote:Oh god fuckface is going on about tearing down monuments now. We get it! You need to keep the KKK on your side!

He does not need the supremacists themselves, as their numbers are small. What he desperately needs is the support of white people with racial resentments, who are numerous and form a substantial part of his base. He absolutely can't afford to alienate them.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 11:59 am

I don't think that the statues or monuments should be destroyed. But let's put them in museums where they belong and can be more protected and preserved for those that still worship them.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 12:00 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Kraken wrote:
Holman wrote:Daily Stormer has just been been booted from GoDaddy.

They already have a new home, though, with servers in Russia.
So now Russians are consorting with Nazis? Times sure do change.
Or history sure does repeat itself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov%E ... ntrop_Pact

Go ahead and invade Poland, we're right there with you.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/201 ... 609001/USA Today

Russia's media watchdog said Thursday it "requested" that a Russian internet provider boot The Daily Stormer off its website because the American group spews neo-Nazi propaganda and incites racial and national hatred.

The Daily Stormer had briefly taken refuge at the Ru-center, which provided the Russian domain, after being kicked off American servers by GoDaddy and Google following the uproar over Charlottesville white nationalist demonstrations.

Even before the Russian watchdog officially stepped in, the neo-Nazi website had been forced to retreat temporarily to the dark Web when security firm Cloudflare severed ties with the site Wednesday.

Officially, Roskomnadzor, the watchdog organization, can only shutdown websites on charges of extremism after approval from Russia’s General Prosecutor’s Office, The Moscow Times reported, but its "request" carries considerable weight.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:02 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: stuff

Did not see that coming.

...

FB liberal attack dogs are calling civil war monuments and naming "Participation Trophies"

Normally, I'm not a fan of poking the animal but this made me laugh more than it should have even if I were the type that likes to incite people into being more of a dick than they already are being.

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:26 pm

Holman wrote:Most of the statues threatened with removal were put up during the rise of Jim Crow or in reaction to the Civil Rights movement.

Now in handy dandy chart form thanks to the SPLC via Kevin Drum:

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:47 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:I don't think that the statues or monuments should be destroyed. But let's put them in museums where they belong and can be more protected and preserved for those that still worship them.

Either there or move to the battlefields where they would be more appropriate.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 1:55 pm

Bannon thinks all this is helping Trump's cause.Essentially he believes this will further alienate and motivate Whites. Maybe he is right but wtf does that say about our nation then?

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:03 pm

malchior wrote:Bannon thinks all this is helping Trump's cause.Essentially he believes this will further alienate and motivate Whites. Maybe he is right but wtf does that say about our nation then?

That maybe we're not as great as We thought we were?

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:22 pm

Well, I've spotted two polls on Trump's response. Overall, it's about 27-34% that support his response.

Which means he still has the support of the Republican base.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:24 pm

Defiant wrote:Which means he still has the support of the Republican base.

That's really what we need to come to terms with here. Just because you're a Republican that doesn't mean you're a racist. However, when your leadership comes out in support of racist policies or makes statements minimizing the impact of racists, it's not a deal breaker. That's a problem.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:38 pm

The CBS poll showed 2/3rds of Republicans approved of Trump's response. Which is reprehensible, and one more nail in the coffin of me ever voting Republican again.

I hope Trump & Bannon continue to rule only their small core, though. It's going to make the next election much easier after they've alienated independents, moderates, minorities, women, etc.

As an aside, I've been trying to track my pro-Trump friends in light of all this chaos. The overwhelming response has been complete radio silence/head in the sand. Most of them have stopped watching the news, as if ignoring the monster they put in office will somehow make everything hunky-dory.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:45 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:
malchior wrote:Bannon thinks all this is helping Trump's cause.Essentially he believes this will further alienate and motivate Whites. Maybe he is right but wtf does that say about our nation then?
That maybe we're not as great as We thought we were?

So it's like a re-write of The Turner Diaries.

The Turner Diaries depicts a violent revolution in the United States which leads to the overthrow of the federal government, nuclear war, and, ultimately, a race war.

The Bannon Diaries depicts a violent Executive branch coup d'etat in the United States which leads to the overthrow of the federal government, nuclear war, and, ultimately, a race war.

He's banging on all cylinders.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:48 pm

YellowKing wrote:The CBS poll showed 2/3rds of Republicans approved of Trump's response. Which is reprehensible, and one more nail in the coffin of me ever voting Republican again.

I hope Trump & Bannon continue to rule only their small core, though. It's going to make the next election much easier after they've alienated independents, moderates, minorities, women, etc.

As an aside, I've been trying to track my pro-Trump friends in light of all this chaos. The overwhelming response has been complete radio silence/head in the sand. Most of them have stopped watching the news, as if ignoring the monster they put in office will somehow make everything hunky-dory.

My tracking is "Why is the left trying to destroy history?" which was apparently Trump's tracking as well. Ignore the chants and the guns and riot shields and swastikas. This is about preserving American heritage. Ostensibly that's what the march was about and everything else is poor media focus and liberals changing the message. Sadly, they get to point to NC and say "see that!"

Nightwish · Post by **Nightwish** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 2:52 pm

em2nought wrote:So I'm a bad guy because I hope that kid didn't intentionally kill that girl, or try to kill the others? Great! Did I say he didn't do it intentionally? No, I think he probably did. I just wish he didn't. I'd hate to take away your happiness derived from someone on the right finally killing someone on the left.

You really are a piece of work. It has nothing to do with left of right, it has to do with fascists wanting another genocide or two, no matter what they have to do to get their way. If you don't condemn it (in a free country, at least), you're a bad person or a fucking collaborating coward, which is still a bad person.
Blame whatever boogeyman you want, but if you support that ethnicity has any bearing on what you are, you're in the wrong century.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:19 pm

em2nought wrote:So I'm a bad guy because I hope that kid didn't intentionally kill that girl, or try to kill the others? Great! Did I say he didn't do it intentionally? No, I think he probably did. I just wish he didn't. I'd hate to take away your happiness derived from someone on the right finally killing someone on the left.

Because you asked for clarity...

You're a 'bad guy' because you knowingly came in here pandering some bullshit excuse for this guy, when you know all too well that his actions were entirely willful.
You're a 'bad guy' because you know that and still came here pretending that your "generous read" of the "accident" made you 'better than all of us'.
You're a 'bad guy' because you assert that we all wished for this to happen.

You are a bad guy because you are seemingly devoid of any goodness, see the world through hate-tinted-glasses and constantly think you are being cute and clever - but are just constantly shallow and ugly.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 3:46 pm

LordMortis wrote:My tracking is "Why is the left trying to destroy history?" which was apparently Trump's tracking as well. Ignore the chants and the guns and riot shields and swastikas. This is about preserving American heritage. Ostensibly that's what the march was about and everything else is poor media focus and liberals changing the message. Sadly, they get to point to NC and say "see that!"

I'm not falling for that crap. Total diversionary tactic to switch the debate to something they have a better foundation to argue from. Because even his supporters know it's *really* hard to defend Trump's press conference.

This isn't about monuments. This is about the POTUS being a racist piece of shit.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:09 pm

LordMortis wrote:My tracking is "Why is the left trying to destroy history?" which was apparently Trump's tracking as well.

The few pro-Trump folks that still make it through my carefully constructed net (two more muted today) have been barking two talking points:

1) Leftists are trying to destroy our history and culture.
2) The MSM is trying everything they can to stop the Trump agenda. Whatever the fuck that means.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:10 pm

YellowKing wrote:I'm not falling for that crap.

Falling for it or not, that is the conversation they are sticking with. There will be no moving of goal posts here. Murder? It's not bout murder. Blood and soil? It's not about Nazism and the KKK. This is about (the left violently) destroying history.

OtOH, tweets to take the focus off my rising blood pressure

http://www.politicususa.com/2017/08/16/ ... acism.html

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Aug 17, 2017 4:16 pm

RunningMn9 wrote:
LordMortis wrote:My tracking is "Why is the left trying to destroy history?" which was apparently Trump's tracking as well.
The few pro-Trump folks that still make it through my carefully constructed net (two more muted today) have been barking two talking points:

1) Leftists are trying to destroy our history and culture.
2) The MSM is trying everything they can to stop the Trump agenda. Whatever the fuck that means.

I'm for 1 and 2 at this point. Especially 2 since his agenda seems to be roll back protections and protect neo-nazis. Fuck Trump.