Octopus Overlords

Montag wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:05 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:54 pm Out of curiosity, what are some decent games that support VR out of the box? IE - without buying a special version. The three that I'm aware of right now are No Man's Sky, Subnautica, and Everspace. Are there any others that stand out?

Alien Isolation?

I don't think it supports VR. At least my copy does not. Might make an amazing VR game, though.

Mine includes

DCS World
Strike Suit Zero
SPAZ 2
QUBE DC
Universe Sandbox

Hrothgar wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:49 pm Strike Suit Zero

Hmm... Wonder why my copy doesn't show up as supporting VR. I'd be willing to take that for a spin.

Star Wars: Squadrons and MSFS 2020 have native VR support, but you're going to need a powerhouse to run MSFS.

Thanks! I actually have a few of those. If/when I get VR, I'll have enough stuff to actually have some fun.

I wouldn't have guessed Universe Sandbox, though.

TheMix wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:10 pm

Montag wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 6:05 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jan 20, 2021 4:54 pm Out of curiosity, what are some decent games that support VR out of the box? IE - without buying a special version. The three that I'm aware of right now are No Man's Sky, Subnautica, and Everspace. Are there any others that stand out?

Alien Isolation?

I don't think it supports VR. At least my copy does not. Might make an amazing VR game, though.

Mother VR mod. Have not tried it myself.

Quest 2 with the link cable will get you Asgard's Wrath, a kick-ass fighter/puzzle game (or at least I enjoy the hell out of it). Puzzle because (not really a spoiler) part of the gameplay requires you to assume your natural state (after you possess a human body): that of a 100-foot god. You tower over landscape and animals, can pluck birds from the sky with your fingertips, even turn some animals into humanoid henchmen (the first being a shark-man hybrid, dual-wielding scimitars).

The fighting aspect is pretty good, and the story is interesting. Haven't gotten too far, but I really enjoy it.

Would you say the link cable is working as good as Rift S/Index? I hear comments that there is a slight delay with it. For instance, a game requiring quick movements feel a tad off.

I splurged on myself and got myself a valve index. So far really cool, in fact typing this from inside the initial vr place while awaiting Alyx to download.

Last night I remembered that I had downloaded a game called Echo VR. It's a free, zero-G multiplayer combat game. I got it based off one of those "top 10 free VR games" lists, so I figured I'd give it a shot.

I had so much frickin' fun. If you've ever seen or read Ender's Game, it is basically the Battle Room. Give it a shot, it's worth it.

Buatha wrote: ↑Fri Jan 22, 2021 12:44 am Would you say the link cable is working as good as Rift S/Index? I hear comments that there is a slight delay with it. For instance, a game requiring quick movements feel a tad off.

I've only used the link cable for a bit and left it on the other side of the country, so can't really test it out some more. I don't recall having any issues playing WD: Saints & Sinners or The Golf Club VR. Somewhat related, The Golf Club VR is unplayable wirelessly, impossible to hit the ball due to tracking latency, but WD:SS seems OK. Perhaps the quality of the link cable is causing some people's latency.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:13 pm Thanks! I actually have a few of those. If/when I get VR, I'll have enough stuff to actually have some fun.

I wouldn't have guessed Universe Sandbox, though.

So, there was a hidden motive in my asking. An awesome fellow OOer (who contacted me privately some time ago, so I won't out publicly) has upgraded to an Index, so they sent me their original Rift! I have the headset, the cables, and the controllers. Everything but the sensor (which I'm checking into - I will happily ebay one if nothing else - fifty bucks is a small price to pay), so, in the very near future, VR! The Person in Question has my sincerest thanks!

I'm actually really excited to try this out, and grabbed a couple of VR-only titles during the Steam holiday sale. I just need to figure out what I'll try first!

If you tackle SkyrimVR, I can tell you what mods I'm running with. I tried to keep it somewhat minimalistic to start with.

TheMix wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:45 pm If you tackle SkyrimVR, I can tell you what mods I'm running with. I tried to keep it somewhat minimalistic to start with.

It is high on the list, and I'd appreciate it. My short list stuff I already own:

~Skyrim VR
~Fallout 4 VR (I know, the gameplay is flawed, but after 20 years of Fallout, I want to walk around the wasteland 'in person!' If that means setting it on easy to compensate for design issues, then so be it!)
~Subnautica (already has VR built in, but this one honestly seems like it will be terrifying in VR!)


Second line:
~No Man's Sky (I'm not sure I'm ready for another run in NMS, but again, getting to see it in person is worth the reinstall.)
~Everspace (I liked the game, and it has VR built in, so I will give it a whirl when the mood for space battles strikes me.)
~Star Wars Squadrons (I'm not really in the mood right now, but I have it when the time is right.)
~Hardspace Shipbreaker (when it's ready)

A couple I'd really like to try, but I don't actually own:
~LA Noire (just getting to walk around in the 1930s for a while...)
~Talos Principle VR (I loved the regular version, and it seems like this would be a great environment to explore in VR)

FWIW, I'm still an immersion gamer. Being in a place and being part of a setting that appeals to me trumps gameplay every time (within reason - if I'm falling through the world or the game's so buggy it's a chore to play, that's different.)

I highly recommend you plan on some less intense games for your first forays into VR. Some people have absolutely no problem with high motion and mobility games in VR, but a lot of people can get motion sick. The more motion sick you get at the start, the more likely you'll have continued problems going forward, but the more good experiences you have at the start the more you can build up your "VR legs" and be ok with more intensive things going forward.

wonderpug wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:08 pm I highly recommend you plan on some less intense games for your first forays into VR. Some people have absolutely no problem with high motion and mobility games in VR, but a lot of people can get motion sick. The more motion sick you get at the start, the more likely you'll have continued problems going forward, but the more good experiences you have at the start the more you can build up your "VR legs" and be ok with more intensive things going forward.

I did okay with Half Life: Alyx, but Skyrim made me so nauseous, I couldn't even finish the intro quest line. I later tried doing a couple of short stints (like, 10 minutes or so), and I'll probably do it some more and see if I can get used to it.

wonderpug wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:08 pm I highly recommend you plan on some less intense games for your first forays into VR. Some people have absolutely no problem with high motion and mobility games in VR, but a lot of people can get motion sick. The more motion sick you get at the start, the more likely you'll have continued problems going forward, but the more good experiences you have at the start the more you can build up your "VR legs" and be ok with more intensive things going forward.

So, what's less intense?

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:24 pm

wonderpug wrote: ↑Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:08 pm I highly recommend you plan on some less intense games for your first forays into VR. Some people have absolutely no problem with high motion and mobility games in VR, but a lot of people can get motion sick. The more motion sick you get at the start, the more likely you'll have continued problems going forward, but the more good experiences you have at the start the more you can build up your "VR legs" and be ok with more intensive things going forward.

So, what's less intense?

Basically anything where the camera doesn't move unless you're moving your own actual head or body. This could mean you just sit or stand in one place the whole time (Beat Saber, Job Simulator, Superhot) or it could mean that you use teleportation for movement but otherwise never press forward on a joystick to walk around (Arizona Sunshine, Robo Recall).

Other recommendations (including those mentioned above):

• Beat Saber
• Job Simulator
• Superhot
• Star Trek Bridge Crew
• Arizona Sunshine (though this seems like it's oddly priced higher than other games)
• Robo Recall
• Moss
• Free short film experiences like Invasion, Henry, ....one I can't remember with a tiny diorama planet
• theBlu whale experience
• I Expect You to Die
• Budget Cuts
• The Lab (Steam exclusive but you can make it work for Rift)
• Space Pirate Trainer

Thanks for the tip. It turns out I had everything I needed, so I set it up and completely lost track of time. With the advice to start with teleporting or stationary games, I spent a few hours just checking out the environments in Steam VR and letting the family try it. Then I loaded up Fallout 4 VR. I don't intend to play it yet, but I wanted to try at least one game. I ended up playing about an hour and a half, maybe longer. From start to leaving the vault. With full free movement and free rotation with the 'comfort' features turned off I had zero issues. Well, zero nausea issues. There were a couple of times I nearly fell over when suddenly sprinting up or down a slope and tried to compensate in real life.

But that aside, what an incredible experience. I've spent many hundreds of hours in Fallout games, but just being able to walk up to a Mr. Handy, see the parts moving, get a sense of the scale - that was incredible. I spent an absurd amount of time just looking at conduits, or trees, or a door.

I think the strangest thing about it all, though, was games or environments where I had a weapon, held it up, and it had no weight. That was probably the most wrong-feeling part of any of it! Anyway, I'm an hour and a half late for bed. Off I go!

Okay. Some thoughts.

Half Life: Alyx works great. Some of that is probably the Valve Index controllers though. But I don't have any issues with equilibrium or balance playing it. It has, however, been responsible for my first fall when I jumped sideways to avoid a god@#$% #@$%ing headcrab!! The wall that I expected to stop my jump turned out to not be there. Go figure. So, my only problem so far with that game has been getting too into it and forgetting that it's VR.

Skyrim works pretty well. But I've found it's a different beast all together. They recommend that you use the teleportation method of moving (like Half Life), but I found that I much prefer to do continuous movement. But I did find pretty quickly that it was making my legs "hurt". That may not be the best word for it. Basically, I think I move around a lot less, so my legs get tired/sore from standing. And, honestly, it's not a game that you need to stand for. I've found it works the same, or even better, if I'm sitting. So I picked up a stool with a back and a place to rest the legs. This takes the strain off the legs, and also helps keep me centered better. I also got it because it was listed as one of the solutions for people (i.e. gilraen) that have equilibrium issues that cause nausea. Hopefully the stool will allow her to swing her legs or walk in place as she moves; which will maybe convince her brain that she is moving. The stool also helps me with heights. I have found that my heights issue kicks in big time if I'm standing and somewhere really high up in the game, looking down. But if I'm sitting, I don't have any issues looking over cliff edges, etc.

So my main recommendation, especially if your VR "room" is small, would be to find something to sit on. At least for Fallout 4 and Skyrim. I've found it also helps with staying centered and facing the correct direction. My Index pops up a grid in-game when you get too close to the edge of the area, which can break the immersion a bit. By staying stationary I don't get that very often. But I can reach out an arm to trigger the grid, letting me see if I've gotten turned around. (Oh, my stool spins - which is very helpful.)

As for Skyrim, here's my current list (note: I am using Vortex and Nexus Mods): Huh. I didn't realize I had that many running.

Another recommendation, for Skyrim and Fallout, quick save OFTEN. Fights can be annoying. VR doesn't generally let you spin much. And if you are using a bow, you might find that you've turned far enough to be blocking the base LOS with your arms, causing the bow to misfire. Which can be a big problem because the enemies love to flank. I find that in the heat of battle, I forget to use the joystick to spin. I've died more than once trying to turn to keep an enemy targeted, only to have it really screw me up. Also, stay away from melee. Most of the comments state that melee is garbage. There are some mods that may help address that, but I didn't install them. I went back to my standby - stealth archer. Now that I' death incarnate from the shadows, I'm working on advancing my magic.

I've discovered that I have a lot more room than I thought I did. The secret was realizing that I didn't actually need to stay right in front of my computer, which is in a tiny little nook in the living room. I can move out and set the Guardian (the rift version of the virtual space barrier) to a much bigger area. And if nobody is using the TV, I can make it bigger still. I think I will relocate my tower, though, to get the cord a little closer.

TheMix wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:54 pm Okay. Some thoughts.
It has, however, been responsible for my first fall when I jumped sideways to avoid a god@#$% #@$%ing headcrab!! The wall that I expected to stop my jump turned out to not be there.

You get 'em, John Woo!

Alyx is actually at the top of my list. I've been populating my Steam wishlist, and I saved a Steam card I got for Christmas. Now I just need to decide between Alyx or several less expensive titles. I also think it might be fun to get some sort of a quick shooting gallery game (not an FPS with a story, just a way to get in and shoot a bunch of weapons at a bunch of targets.)

I have actually thought about getting a stool. I could sit in Fallout 4 VR, but it looked like I was three feet tall. I wouldn't mind a stool that would match my height.

Anyway, thanks for the mod list. I'm planning to go much lighter for the VR version. For one thing, I want to keep the frame rate up. For another, I'm still getting used to handling VR controls and don't want to overly complicate things (I usually have to use workarounds to get around the 255 mod limit.)

So many games, and yet I spent a lot of time today checking out free non-games. If you haven't checked it out, 1943 Berlin Blitz takes an old audio recording from a Lancaster bomber on a run over Berlin, then recreates the plane, the locations, and what they went through. You sit there, listening to the original recording of the pilots talking, and go through it with them. I found it stunning, even though it only lasted a few minutes.

And it's free. It's on the Oculus store, too.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 31, 2021 4:09 pm I have actually thought about getting a stool. I could sit in Fallout 4 VR, but it looked like I was three feet tall. I wouldn't mind a stool that would match my height.

Check if there is a VRIK mod for Fallout 4. It allows you to set your character height to the headset and then scale the world accordingly. Or, if that is too high or too low, you can manually change the height and re-scale. It works pretty well. And it is pretty quick to do on the fly. If I decide to stand for a bit, I just re-run the config and rescale.

Leaving this here. Skyrim VR Guide

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Feb 01, 2021 10:43 am Leaving this here. Skyrim VR Guide

I used that extensively.

Giving it some more thought, I'm going to bump Skyrim/Fallout back one on the list. So far all I've done is 'experiences', single locations with activities or things to see. I think I might be better served to start with either Alyx (for pew-pew) or Asgard's Wrath (for clank-clank.) Two reasons: First, they're both shorter, more directed experiences (if I start with Skyrim/FO, I won't be playing anything else for a long time), which means I'll get to try a bigger variety of experiences over the next couple of months. The second reason is that they're both designed specifically for VR and are highly rated. That means that I'll be able to get used to VR gameplay without having to deal with the wonkiness of a Bethesda port. In the meantime, I can slow down and get Skyrim/FO4 modded and ready to go.

If you've ever thought dodging bullets in bullet time in the Matrix or Max Payne seemed cool, get Superhot. It's one of the best VR experiences out there.

If you have any affinity to rhythm games (Guitar Hero, Rock Band, Amplitude/Frequency) or if you think swinging light sabers in VR sounds fun, get Beat Saber. For some people it's worth buying into VR just to have that game.

If I had to make this a top 3 list, Job Simulator would probably round out my selections. (The first one, not Vacation Simulator). Job Simulator works perfectly as a VR intro. It's funny, fun, and easy to understand. If I introduce someone to VR for the first time, I usually start them with this, Beat Saber, or theBlu whale encounter.

Honorable mention to Apollo 11 VR. While it's not the best designed VR app overall, standing on the moon in VR is a pretty damn cool experience.

I've got Superhot on my list. I'm universally terrible at rhythm games, but I love sword fighting games, so I do really want to give Beat Saber a try.

You know, I'm an idiot. I just thought to check, and Steam Library Filters has an option to filter for VR capability. I have a bunch more VR-ready games than I realized (although a few are mis-tagged.)

If you like sword fighting you should check out Until You Fall, which is a sword fighting roguelike. It’s also my daughters favorite game.

I will check it out, thanks.

Last night I discovered photogrammetry, which is photorealistic recreations of real-world locales within the VR space, done by take dozens of 360 degree photos at extremely high resolution from multiple angles and combining them into a 3d environment. The result is reminiscent of Google Earth's street view, but done with 8k textures of a much smaller area that you can walk around in full 3d (IE - walls are 3d mapped, not flat with shadows, stonework is 3d, etc.) I've got a real love of history, especially certain periods. Getting to walk around a 12th century church (Holy Trinity Church, Kirk Ireton in Derbyshire) brought on a whole new perspective. For example, actually seeing the size of the tracery in the windows brought on a new understanding of what usually looks thin and fragile. I probably gained a better comprehension of how some of this worked in a few minutes than a pile of books and documentaries could ever give me. Those give facts, this gave understanding.

This is something I want more of. I doubt I'll ever get to travel to get a real look of such places, and this was fantastic. This is something I need to find more of.

That's one of the biggest promises for me, virtual travel.

I do not recall seeing it listed here, but search for Google Spotlight on Steam. These are just story based experiences that are free. I would also recommend Dear Angelica on the Rift store - a free one. It is a bit emotional.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Feb 02, 2021 12:13 pm I will check it out, thanks.

Last night I discovered photogrammetry, which is photorealistic recreations of real-world locales within the VR space, done by take dozens of 360 degree photos at extremely high resolution from multiple angles and combining them into a 3d environment. The result is reminiscent of Google Earth's street view, but done with 8k textures of a much smaller area that you can walk around in full 3d (IE - walls are 3d mapped, not flat with shadows, stonework is 3d, etc.) I've got a real love of history, especially certain periods. Getting to walk around a 12th century church (Holy Trinity Church, Kirk Ireton in Derbyshire) brought on a whole new perspective. For example, actually seeing the size of the tracery in the windows brought on a new understanding of what usually looks thin and fragile. I probably gained a better comprehension of how some of this worked in a few minutes than a pile of books and documentaries could ever give me. Those give facts, this gave understanding.

This is something I want more of. I doubt I'll ever get to travel to get a real look of such places, and this was fantastic. This is something I need to find more of.

I'd be interested in that! What program did you use to do it?

SteamVR - which is the basic program used to run Steam games. It loads you into a 'home.' When you open the menu, one of the options is 'environments' which lets you explore all sorts of places other people have created and uploaded. Some are silly nonsense, some are recreations of areas from non-VR games (Halo, World of Warcraft, and some are real-world locations (Valve's offices, the Tower Bridge, the church I mentioned, etc.) All are free.

Tip: The in-game browser sucks. Use Steam Workshop.

Observation while setting up my ITAD watchlist: VR titles very rarely go on sale, and when they do it isn't that deep. Historical low on most of the games I've got on there has never dropped below 10-20% off.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:57 am Observation while setting up my ITAD watchlist: VR titles very rarely go on sale, and when they do it isn't that deep. Historical low on most of the games I've got on there has never dropped below 10-20% off.

Are you trying to only buy from Steam, or are you also looking at the Oculus store?

wonderpug wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 12:00 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:57 am Observation while setting up my ITAD watchlist: VR titles very rarely go on sale, and when they do it isn't that deep. Historical low on most of the games I've got on there has never dropped below 10-20% off.

Are you trying to only buy from Steam, or are you also looking at the Oculus store?

All of the above. I check the Oculus store, but I also keep my ITAD Waitlist updated.

(For those that don't use ITAD, it's an incredible resource. You tell it what stores you want to buy from, make a wishlist, and it notifies you when any game on your list goes on sale on any of the stores you selected, or when any of the stores sells that game, regular or on sale, for less than the price or discount you specify. )

Steam tells me that Fallout 4 and Skyrim were 68% off when I purchased them.

I have noticed that the couple of other ones on my list have yet to go on sale.

So, some interesting side effects of VR that I've noticed.

For a little while, I was getting a fun VR after-effect. Gaming on a flat screen never challenges your sense of reality; your brain always knows it's looking at a picture. Now, though, I was putting on the headset and telling my mind that reality worked differently than it had for the past 47 years, and asking it to accept that as normal. Movement works differently. Gravity works differently (walk down a steep hill and gravity doesn't pull you forward.) Vision works differently. Limbs work differently. Sounds works differently. And it worked. After a couple of hours my mind began to accept the new normal. I never experienced any sickness, even after I got comfortable enough to use full free motion and turning with all of the comfort settings turned off. But then I'd take the headset off, and ask my mind to switch to the first reality again. Sound, movement, vision, it all worked the old way again. This led to a fun readjustment period where my arms felt too short, I felt like I was floating, and my depth perception seemed oddly enhanced. This effect has faded now, but it was kind of fun while it lasted. Apparently it is extremely common in the first couple of weeks after you start using VR, after which your brain learns to make the switch between 'realities' more quickly and the effect goes away.

The other thing I noticed, and don't laugh too hard, is that my imagination has improved. Before getting used to VR, if I tried to think back to, say, a house I lived in 30 years ago, I'd remember what it looked like as if I were looking at a picture of it, a freeze-frame of a point in time. Now, I think back to those places and have no trouble putting myself in them (in my memory/imagination) in full 3d and at scale. I'm guessing that it's a fun side effect of my brain learning to adjust to 3d environments.