Octopus Overlords

El Guapo wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:31 pm Plus, since this is going to have to go through a House-Senate conference, passing it today allows the weekend shows to be focused on Flynn - Trump and not on the tax bill.

I was just thinking the exact same thing - just the air cover these assholes and base hypocrites need. Fuck the GOP.

I wouldn't be surprised if they all turned on Trump after this is passed. They got what they wanted out of him and now he's just an annoying distraction.

Is there really any doubt that this was going to pass? They HAVE to do this now as in 6 months even more horrible news will be out and the window will have passed.

I've always kind of liked Angus King.

"The Bangor (Maine) city council wouldn't amend the leash law using this process"

Octavious wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2017 12:54 pm I wouldn't be surprised if they all turned on Trump after this is passed. They got what they wanted out of him and now he's just an annoying distraction.

Which is why the ultimate Trump move would be to veto it. Never gonna happen-- it enriches him and his family too much-- but it would be awesome.

I wonder if the press will cover the true damage this bill will bring. Grad students giving up 50% of their meager income to the tax man. The drop in medical school enrollments. The technology start ups fleeing to Vancouver or Toronto. The people who go bankrupt because their medicare was cut. Or the care they won't receive due to PAYGO payment cuts. This is another huge self-inflicted wound to our nation.

It seems that the senate version may have added back the property tax deduction limit of 10,000. This of course means that they are just screwing us somewhere else, as god forbid they lower the massive cuts a smidge.

Yup - the $10K limit is purely optics. They likely just changed the brackets around to paper it over. There is no way they figured it out this fast otherwise.

This, sadly, seems accurate right about now:

Chris Hayes‏
@chrislhayes
All of the looking the other way, and the excuses and the complicity w Trump was so the GOP could pass this bill today. This is the payoff.
11:02 AM - 1 Dec 2017

So thinking this is the payoff seems to be a thing. I think that's shortsighted. I don't think they're done at all.

I don't think "payoff" implies that they're done yet. It just means that their legislative goals could only be serviced by enabling an obviously unfit POTUS.

malchior wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2017 1:54 pm Yup - the $10K limit is purely optics. They likely just changed the brackets around to paper it over. There is no way they figured it out this fast otherwise.

If I were a betting man I would guess that they lowered the child tax credit. Which would hose me. I can't think of anything else they could cut (well aside from crazy things like "only" lowering the corporate rate 10%. The worst thing is that when rates eventually have to go back up to pay for this shit we will have even higher taxes, because our taxable income has gone up. Right now they are just hiding that fact behind bullshit that will expire.

I just had a thought... What happens if with all the last minute changes they cock it up and it doesn't meet the special budget rules? Can they simply adjust without having to vote the whole thing through again? I could totally see them just jamming it through and then realizing they didn't follow the rules properly. AKA it goes over the allowable amount of debt.

This is the latest I saw. This would be much less of a NJ killer, but of course we need to know all the details first. I still think removing the personal exemption is totally going to end up screwing a lot of people. The beauty of that move is that nobody seems to even know they were getting it.

Senators are still debating over the GOP tax plan, but here are some details on what the legislation could include if it passes. (Note: Everything is fluid. This could change.)

State and local tax, also known as SALT, deduction will be restored. The Senate had proposed to repeal the deduction.
Pass-through taxes will be increased from 17.4% to 23%
Restore the Interest-Charge Domestic International Sales Corporation, or IC-DISC, to present law
Increase repatriation to 7% and 14%
Increase individual alternative minimum tax exemption amounts and phase-out thresholds in lieu of full repeal
Maintain the corporate alternative minimum tax exemption

I also think the 'restored' SALT deduction is a gimmick too. It only helps status quo people with large mortgages. Why? The standard deduction is still so high. Even if you take the max $10K SALT deduction then you still need $14K in mortgage interest to get there. That is probably a $500K mortgage right now. Charity is gone. Student loan interest is gone. Etc. So the true middle to upper middle in blue states are still getting banged pretty hard here by the loss of the personal exemptions.

It probably doesn't matter at this point, but Corker has come out as a "No".

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:30 pm It probably doesn't matter at this point, but Corker has come out as a "No".

If only McCain actually had the principles and concerns he says/said he had.

Want to see the level of dysfunction in the Senate now. Let's play, "Who has better access to the affairs of the chamber. Is it the Democrats in the Senate or lobbyists?"

The press gang is in full force:

GOP’s List of Economists Backing Tax Cut Includes Ghosts, Office Assistants, Ex-Felons, and a Sprinkling of Real Economists

Just who I want verifying the economic and fiscal basis for our country over the next 5-10 years...

A bunch of Senators are tweeting pictures of the pages of the recent draft. It's 479 pages long with illegible changes handwritten in the margins. They're supposed to vote on this thing tonight, and they literally can't read it.

Chaz wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2017 8:47 pm A bunch of Senators are tweeting pictures of the pages of the recent draft. It's 479 pages long with illegible changes handwritten in the margins. They're supposed to vote on this thing tonight, and they literally can't read it.

Yeah, the scribbled changes are ridiculous. For McCain to say he values the normal order of government, and then turn around vote for this, well that's crazy too. Collins carving out special amendments for Maine, rest of the country be damned, is pretty also galling.

Example.

How else can you sneak in new exceptions for bankers? You type that shit up and people can actually read it you know.

Or stuff for the DeVos family:

https://twitter.com/sahilkapur/status/9 ... 2205851648

Honestly if people took up arms at this point - I wouldn't blame them. This is atrocious. They are looting the treasury in the middle of the night.

Heh.

Cory Booker is reading the tax bill live right now to show how ridiculous this process is. He literally just got the bill.

GOP senators are throwing in amendments with massively profitable loopholes for hedge funds and private equity firms.

This is so shameless. It's late Roman stuff.

That is a good comparison - this is the end. There is no legitimate reason for this nonsense other than they are emptying the vaults. Time to bring out the pitchforks.

Massive windfall amendment for Hillsdale College, Erik Prince's alma mater and massively supported by the DeVos family.

That's the only college getting the benefit.

Holman wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:00 pm Massive windfall amendment for Hillsdale College, Erik Prince's alma mater and massively supported by the DeVos family.

That's the only college getting the benefit.

A college advertised prominently on right wing talk radio.

The wildest, most inaccurate Republican caricature of how the ACA was "rammed down Americans' throats" was about 1% as bad as what we're seeing tonight.

It isn't even comparable - it was debated for a year - amendments from both parties were incorporated. This is despicable.

It’s amazing how much they just don’t give a fuck. Not even a pretense.

Manchin is talking right now about how he tried to get involved and he was completely shut out. They couldn't even let a centrist in.

https://twitter.com/TopherSpiro/status/ ... 5456411648

https://twitter.com/SteveSchmidtSES/sta ... 8008666112

https://twitter.com/lhfang/status/936700135156850688

Note from Congressional scholar Norman Ornstein. He is flat out saying this erases anything positive that several people have ever done. I think he doesn't go far enough. They will be remembered as villains who helped loot their constituents to line the pockets of the wealthy at the end of the American era.

Schumer is talking right now and essentially is saying the same thing. He is talking about the DeVos exemption right now. He just called the Republicans hypocrites and the chamber is descending into 'chicanery'. I'm not a fan of his generally but he is speaking the truth right now.

https://twitter.com/NormOrnstein/status ... 7139659776

Captain Caveman wrote:It’s amazing how much they just don’t give a fuck. Not even a pretense.

Remember before Trump was elected? When I was hopping mad at the North Carolina GOP and Governor McCrory? This is the kind of shit that was going down then, and now it's just playing out at a national level. This party is rotten to the very core. And it's *incredibly* frustrating that people I know who have been reasonable conservatives all their lives have sold their souls to this corrupt band of evil, soul-less vampires. Instead of making a stand and saying "I'm a Republican, but I'm not going to be a part of this greed and dishonesty," they doubled down on it. Dived into it like Scrooge McDuck into a vault full of gold coins.

It sickens me to see friends and co-workers who used to debate politics in terms of philosophical differences on economic policy now defending pedophiles and pussy grabbers. It's fucking disgusting.

Phew - the loophole for cruise ship owners to pay an average rate of 4% survived this process. I was really worried about that.

The Hillsdale College thing is apparently my own senator Pat Toomey's.

He's a dick, but I've been calling his office all week to try to appeal to the better angels of his nature. Next week I'm going to call him every day to tell him he's a fucking asshole.

For shits and giggles, I ventured over to Fox News to see what they were saying. Oh dear lord...

The conservative spin on this is an utterly amazing combination of misleading statements and just flat-out lies..

MYTH 5: The tax bill will cause 13 million people to lose health insurance.

Sen. Sanders: “This bill… will result in 13 million people losing their health insurance.”

Given this scare tactic worked so well to kill health-care reform, Democrats are trotting it out in an attempt to do the same to tax reform. But the facts are very different this time around.

Far from kicking people off health insurance as Democrats imply, the tax bill would simply eliminate the health-care tax on those who choose not to purchase health insurance. This tax is borne mostly by working- and middle-class Americans: Nearly 80 percent earn $50,000 a year or less. In fact, this provision would reduce the middle-class tax burden even further.

Sadly, I can completely see how, if Fox was my only news source, I would have absolutely no issue with what's going on today.

Holman wrote: Fri Dec 01, 2017 10:54 pm The Hillsdale College thing is apparently my own senator Pat Toomey's.

He's a dick, but I've been calling his office all week to try to appeal to the better angels of his nature. Next week I'm going to call him every day to tell him he's a fucking asshole.

Unless you have money I'm pretty sure he won't give a shit. Bought piece of shit.