Octopus Overlords

malchior wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:41 pm I'll say it again but the problem with $15 minimum wage is there is no economic or historical basis for it. The number was pulled out of thin air. It would represent the highest minimum wage in adjusted dollars *ever* by 125%.

As opposed to every other number, how? And inflation will immediately start to devalue it.

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:43 pm

malchior wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:41 pm I'll say it again but the problem with $15 minimum wage is there is no economic or historical basis for it. The number was pulled out of thin air. It would represent the highest minimum wage in adjusted dollars *ever* by 125%.

As opposed to every other number, how? And inflation will immediately start to devalue it.

Inflation is why the adjusted comparison matters. My point is that there is simply no economic model. Why not $20? Why not $30? Survey after survey of economists think that $15 is too high but that the current one is definitely too low. We should aspire to actual economics models rooted in some sort of reality.

I'm not sure how to break this to you, brother, but we have been living in a postfact society for several years now. Apparently "postfact" is not not a word since I got the angry red squiggle underneath it. IT IS NOW BITCHES!

Carpet_pissr wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:56 pm I'm not sure how to break this to you, brother, but we have been living in a postfact society for several years now. Apparently "postfact" is not not a word since I got the angry red squiggle underneath it. IT IS NOW BITCHES!

You call it postfact. I call it unserious. It's all the same. That said the pandemic relief policy is reasonably good policy even if it has some problems that'll come home to roost. Narrowing the output gap should help quite a bit.

How does giving people a child tax credit that they can’t claim until next spring help people now?

RunningMn9 wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:08 pm How does giving people a child tax credit that they can’t claim until next spring help people now?

FWIW I believed they plan to start doling them out early in $300 a month chunks starting in July. Here is a bit of detail about the plan.

I dislike that. I was hoping my daughter would be useful to me for one more year.

I know I mentioned previously about how I was against no strings attached child credits, but further research and analysis over the past few days have changed my mind. I'm on board.

malchior wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:53 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:43 pm

malchior wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:41 pm I'll say it again but the problem with $15 minimum wage is there is no economic or historical basis for it. The number was pulled out of thin air. It would represent the highest minimum wage in adjusted dollars *ever* by 125%.

As opposed to every other number, how? And inflation will immediately start to devalue it.

Inflation is why the adjusted comparison matters. My point is that there is simply no economic model. Why not $20? Why not $30? Survey after survey of economists think that $15 is too high but that the current one is definitely too low. We should aspire to actual economics models rooted in some sort of reality.

If politics were working right, $15 would be an opening gambit. The other side counters with $10. Eventually after much wailing and gnashing of teeth they agree on $12.50 or thereabouts. That's how negotiating works. Unfortunately the parties don't negotiate or agree anymore.

RunningMn9 wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:24 pm I dislike that. I was hoping my daughter would be useful to me for one more year.

I'm with you there. Damn it.

Kraken wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:03 pmUnfortunately the parties don't negotiate or agree anymore.

Let's go back to pistols at dawn.

I think this (child tax credit) is a great idea, and long overdue, really. Reading through the details, it seems to “just” be a slight increase to the existing credit, doled out monthly instead of all at once.

I’ve wrangled for years (15+) with trying to reduce the amount of tax return we get every year to something reasonable.

I’ve adjusted numbers with payroll to reduce withholdings, but every year it’s about the same, (usually $6-8K, incl state) and most of that is the child credit.

Spreading that out over the year is a fantastic idea IMO.

Medicare effectively has a minimum wage in its fee schedule. It has a geographic price index component.

Any federal national minimum wage should have a similar structure. Otherwise you have an unequal impact across varied economies. SF is not Evansville is not NYC is not Selma.

Illinois already has a $15 minimum wage law ($15 by 2023) and Chicago is at $14 currently. Is someone making $15/hour here better off than someone making $13 down state?

I’m all for incentivizing people not to move into the city for higher wages.

Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:59 am I’m all for incentivizing people not to move into the city for higher wages.

People don't go to cities for higher wages, they go for jobs. The COL eliminates any wage incentive (were talking minimum wage jobs here, not bank execs).

People also go to cities because they are awesome.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:03 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 11:59 am I’m all for incentivizing people not to move into the city for higher wages.

People don't go to cities for higher wages, they go for jobs. The COL eliminates any wage incentive (were talking minimum wage jobs here, not bank execs).

This is another factor that isn't widely factored in - very few people older than 25 make minimum wage (IIRC it is something like less than 5%). But it has potential impact all across the economy. This is one of the most important wage levers. It should be fixed. I hadn't heard about making it like medicare and that makes a ton of sense. And then it should be pegged to CPI or something to make sure it doesn't slip so far out of sync with the economy. However, it shouldn't be done arbitrarily or flippantly. As Kraken mentioned, our politics are so broken that a 'technocratic' or well-reasoned approach feels impossible right now.

El Guapo wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:15 pm People also go to cities because they are awesome.

Sure, if you like constant noise, everything smelling like piss and stupid hipsters everywhere breathing on you.

NickAragua wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:06 pm

El Guapo wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:15 pm People also go to cities because they are awesome.

Sure, if you like constant noise, everything smelling like piss and stupid hipsters everywhere breathing on you.

You're just cherry picking!

NickAragua wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:06 pm

El Guapo wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:15 pm People also go to cities because they are awesome.

Sure, if you like constant noise, everything smelling like piss and stupid hipsters everywhere breathing on you.

Come to a Midwestern city with alleys. Sure, we have more rats, but people go to the alleys to pee so it's not nearly as bad as it is in, for example, New York City.

ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:24 pm

NickAragua wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:06 pm

El Guapo wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:15 pm People also go to cities because they are awesome.

Sure, if you like constant noise, everything smelling like piss and stupid hipsters everywhere breathing on you.

Come to a Midwestern city with alleys. Sure, we have more rats, but people go to the alleys to pee so it's not nearly as bad as it is in, for example, New York City.

Truly, an advancement in modern sanitation.

NickAragua wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:53 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:24 pm

NickAragua wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:06 pm

El Guapo wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:15 pm People also go to cities because they are awesome.

Sure, if you like constant noise, everything smelling like piss and stupid hipsters everywhere breathing on you.

Come to a Midwestern city with alleys. Sure, we have more rats, but people go to the alleys to pee so it's not nearly as bad as it is in, for example, New York City.

Truly, an advancement in modern sanitation.

All of this, plus, as kids in my neighborhood it was in the alleys that we found all the porno mags.

Z-Corn wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:55 pm

NickAragua wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:53 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:24 pm

NickAragua wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:06 pm

El Guapo wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:15 pm People also go to cities because they are awesome.

Sure, if you like constant noise, everything smelling like piss and stupid hipsters everywhere breathing on you.

Come to a Midwestern city with alleys. Sure, we have more rats, but people go to the alleys to pee so it's not nearly as bad as it is in, for example, New York City.

Truly, an advancement in modern sanitation.

All of this, plus, as kids in my neighborhood it was in the alleys that we found all the porno mags.

Featuring rats urinating? Where did you grow up, Germany?

hepcat wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:00 pm

Z-Corn wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:55 pm

NickAragua wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:53 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:24 pm

NickAragua wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:06 pm

El Guapo wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 12:15 pm People also go to cities because they are awesome.

Sure, if you like constant noise, everything smelling like piss and stupid hipsters everywhere breathing on you.

Come to a Midwestern city with alleys. Sure, we have more rats, but people go to the alleys to pee so it's not nearly as bad as it is in, for example, New York City.

Truly, an advancement in modern sanitation.

All of this, plus, as kids in my neighborhood it was in the alleys that we found all the porno mags.

Featuring rats urinating? Where did you grow up, Germany?

You should have seen the porno mags we found in the cemetery...

Ah...so it was Berlin, to be more precise.

Merrick Garland gets through the Senate but somehow 60% of the GOP voted against him. Really?

I'm beginning to think there's a united effort on the part of the GOP to fully and completely obstruct every single action that requires a vote.

He shot down Florida Man at every turn, surprised not more negative votes.

YellowKing wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:52 pm I know I mentioned previously about how I was against no strings attached child credits, but further research and analysis over the past few days have changed my mind. I'm on board.

I think you may have misunderstood how this works--further research and analysis? Changed your mind?

Smoove_B wrote:I'm beginning to think there's a united effort on the part of the GOP to fully and completely obstruct every single action that requires a vote.

LOL!!

Didn't know where to plunk this but they are calling the America Rescue Plan Biden's plan so I'll go with it. We've already got a Republican already trying to play their game. Expect more of this. They minimize how they voted against it uniformly but will be more than happy to take credit for any of the possible positive impacts their constituents feel.

Example A:

https://twitter.com/atrupar/status/1369 ... elief-plan

At least it's getting the ratio-ing it deserves.

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:41 pm I'm beginning to think there's a united effort on the part of the GOP to fully and completely obstruct every single action that requires a vote.

Marjorie Greene has so far made her entire congressional career about procedural obstruction.

There are signs that even some of her GOP colleagues are sick of it, especially as it always threatens to stretch an 8-hour workday into a 14-hour one.

Holman wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:15 pm Marjorie Greene has so far made her entire congressional career about procedural obstruction.

First of all, her colleagues can EABOD as far as I'm concerned; they vote with her.

Second, I am really confused about her, namely where she's figuring out all these procedural "tricks" as a newly elected member to the House. Unless I am misreading her experience, she has zero - I mean zero - experience with public governance. I want to know who's feeding her tips on how to use procedural elements to cock up the process, because I don't believe for a second she's doing this on her own.

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:25 pm

Holman wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:15 pm Marjorie Greene has so far made her entire congressional career about procedural obstruction.

First of all, her colleagues can EABOD as far as I'm concerned; they vote with her.

Second, I am really confused about her, namely where she's figuring out all these procedural "tricks" as a newly elected member to the House. Unless I am misreading her experience, she has zero - I mean zero - experience with public governance. I want to know who's feeding her tips on how to use procedural elements to cock up the process, because I don't believe for a second she's doing this on her own.

I doubt it's very complicated. Some right-wing think tank has surely told her "Hey, you can Motion to Adjourn [or whatever] as often as you want and gum up the House for an hour each time! Do it all day!"

The real issue is that Kevin McCarthy hasn't reigned her in, but that's explained by him being dumb as a rock and terrified of the far-right base.

You gotta wonder how many dirt poor citizens live in Marjorie Traitor Greene's district.

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:25 pm

Holman wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:15 pm Marjorie Greene has so far made her entire congressional career about procedural obstruction.

First of all, her colleagues can EABOD as far as I'm concerned; they vote with her.

Second, I am really confused about her, namely where she's figuring out all these procedural "tricks" as a newly elected member to the House. Unless I am misreading her experience, she has zero - I mean zero - experience with public governance. I want to know who's feeding her tips on how to use procedural elements to cock up the process, because I don't believe for a second she's doing this on her own.

Lots of lobbyists willing to "help" her I'm sure.

Jaymann wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:38 pm You gotta wonder how many dirt poor citizens live in Marjorie Traitor Greene's district.

iirc hers is among the poorest districts in Georgia. 84% white.

Holman wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:33 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:25 pm

Holman wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 9:15 pm Marjorie Greene has so far made her entire congressional career about procedural obstruction.

First of all, her colleagues can EABOD as far as I'm concerned; they vote with her.

Second, I am really confused about her, namely where she's figuring out all these procedural "tricks" as a newly elected member to the House. Unless I am misreading her experience, she has zero - I mean zero - experience with public governance. I want to know who's feeding her tips on how to use procedural elements to cock up the process, because I don't believe for a second she's doing this on her own.

I doubt it's very complicated. Some right-wing think tank has surely told her "Hey, you can Motion to Adjourn [or whatever] as often as you want and gum up the House for an hour each time! Do it all day!"

If I was running a platform of misinformation and malcontent, with a cult-like following, I'd want to have a lightning rod out front to distract and draw as much attention as possible away from anything else for as long as possible. She is doing a fantastic job. I don't see a mystery here. Even if the other GOP members are rolling their eyes publicly, they're high-fiving in private.

I will never again see the GOP as anything other than Death Eaters trying to find some new way to raise Voldemort.