The Art of the Donald Trumpocalypse

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:36 pm

Hope seems to be fading fast for Donald.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/ele ... revisited/

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:04 pm

GreenGoo wrote:Dude. There is plenty of information all over the internet that show he hires American contractors to build stuff.

Where are you going with this?

Trump campaigns against letting immigrants into the country, depsite the fact that he employs them himself if it suits his bottom line. Trump campaigns against shipping manufacturing jobs overseas, despite the fact that he has his own products manufactured overseas if it suits his bottom line. He is literally that which his followers expect him to protect them from in the economic realm.

And yeah, he hires American contractors. And sometimes he doesn't screw them over by stiffing them when it comes time to pay his bills. And sometimes he'd just rather pay his lawyers.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Aug 15, 2016 5:43 pm

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:40 am

One upshot of Trump's "the election will be rigged" message - it may, quite logically,depress his supporters' turnout.

Smutly · Post by **Smutly** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:05 am

Max Peck wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:Dude. There is plenty of information all over the internet that show he hires American contractors to build stuff.

Where are you going with this?
Trump campaigns against letting immigrants into the country, depsite the fact that he employs them himself if it suits his bottom line. Trump campaigns against shipping manufacturing jobs overseas, despite the fact that he has his own products manufactured overseas if it suits his bottom line. He is literally that which his followers expect him to protect them from in the economic realm.

And yeah, he hires American contractors. And sometimes he doesn't screw them over by stiffing them when it comes time to pay his bills. And sometimes he'd just rather pay his lawyers.

I think you mean that Trump campaigns against allowing illegal immigrants into the country. The main reason illegal immigrants come over it because someone is employing them. I am certain that his company has employed these workers directly or (more likely) indirectly. So, he's a hypocrit (not unlike every politician I have ever seen). However, he has stated that this (illegal immigration) is hurting America and so as President he would do something about it. Whether or not you agree, he is stating his position.

As far as his not paying American contractors, I am certain that the legal system will straighten it out just as they did for Hillary and Bill over the years.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:10 am

El Guapo wrote:One upshot of Trump's "the election will be rigged" message - it may, quite logically,depress his supporters' turnout.

You know we have Tweet tags, right?

Smutly · Post by **Smutly** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:31 am

Isgrimnur wrote:
El Guapo wrote:One upshot of Trump's "the election will be rigged" message - it may, quite logically,depress his supporters' turnout.
You know we have Tweet tags, right?

Good point. Also, not to be ignored, rigging of the election could depress his turnout!

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:32 am

Isgrimnur wrote:
El Guapo wrote:One upshot of Trump's "the election will be rigged" message - it may, quite logically,depress his supporters' turnout.
You know we have Tweet tags, right?

I suppose you could do it that way.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:43 am

I'm curious about this election-rigging. Is showing Trump to be an asshat rigging the election? If so, Trump's the head honcho of rigging the election.

Smutly · Post by **Smutly** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:48 am

coopasonic wrote:I'm curious about this election-rigging. Is showing Trump to be an asshat rigging the election? If so, Trump's the head honcho of rigging the election.

That would be a conspiracy, not election rigging.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:46 am

Smutly wrote:election rigging.

The Good Ship Venus.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:51 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Smutly wrote:election rigging.
The Good Ship Venus.

What was her mast shaped like?

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:08 pm

Smutly wrote:
Max Peck wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:Dude. There is plenty of information all over the internet that show he hires American contractors to build stuff.

Where are you going with this?
Trump campaigns against letting immigrants into the country, depsite the fact that he employs them himself if it suits his bottom line. Trump campaigns against shipping manufacturing jobs overseas, despite the fact that he has his own products manufactured overseas if it suits his bottom line. He is literally that which his followers expect him to protect them from in the economic realm.

And yeah, he hires American contractors. And sometimes he doesn't screw them over by stiffing them when it comes time to pay his bills. And sometimes he'd just rather pay his lawyers.
I think you mean that Trump campaigns against allowing illegal immigrants into the country. The main reason illegal immigrants come over it because someone is employing them. I am certain that his company has employed these workers directly or (more likely) indirectly. So, he's a hypocrit (not unlike every politician I have ever seen). However, he has stated that this (illegal immigration) is hurting America and so as President he would do something about it. Whether or not you agree, he is stating his position.

As far as his not paying American contractors, I am certain that the legal system will straighten it out just as they did for Hillary and Bill over the years.

He did (does?) employ illegal immigrants. But don't let little things like reading comprehension or facts get in the way of your righteous crusade, li'l Trumpista. Fight the good fight!

The Washington Post wrote: All of them said they have been talking about Trump ever since his inflammatory remarks dominated coverage of his presidential announcement on June 16. “It’s something ironic,” said Ivan Arellano, 29, who is from Mexico and obtained legal status through marriage. He now works as a mason laying the stonework for the lobby floor and walls of what will become the Trump International Hotel. “The majority of us are Hispanics, many who came illegally,” Arellano said in Spanish. “And we’re all here working very hard to build a better life for our families.” Interviews with about 15 laborers helping renovate the Old Post Office Pavilion revealed that many of them had crossed the U.S-Mexico border illegally before they eventually settled in the Washington region to build new lives.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:15 pm

From the article you didn't link:

In response to questions from The Washington Post, Hope Hicks, a spokeswoman for the Trump Organization, issued a statement saying that the company and its contractors followed all applicable U.S. immigration laws when hiring the site’s several hundred workers.

“Our contractors are required to have prospective employees produce documentation that establishes identity and employment eligibility in compliance with immigration law,” the e-mailed statement said.

Lend Lease, the lead contractor at the site, “requires all contractors performing work at the project to follow all applicable federal, state and local laws,” the statement said.
...
“Mr. Trump, who is the 100 percent owner of the Old Post Office, hired one of the largest contractors in the world to act as the general contractor,” Cohen said in a telephone interview. “That company is Lend Lease. They then go out and employ subcontractors to work for them. The obligation to check all workers on site is exclusive to Lend Lease. This of course assumes that the assertion regarding the employees’ status is accurate.”

They are not Trump's direct employees.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:28 pm

The "Mayor of 9/11" conveniently forgets all about............9/11

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:29 pm

tgb wrote:The "Mayor of 9/11" conveniently forgets all about............9/11

No, he doesn't:

Moliere wrote:
Defiant wrote:Giuliani: Before Obama, there were no successful radical Islamic attacks
Are you intentionally misquoting him? He clearly says "under those 8 years before Obama...", referring to the time between 9/11 and the Fort Hood shootings in 2009.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:13 pm

Still talking about removing him:

Donald Trump's continued stumbles led The Wall Street Journal Monday to suggest that if he couldn't shape up by Labor Day, it might be time to "turn the nomination over to Mike Pence."

Replacing candidates on the ticket is fairly unprecedented, though Democrats replaced then-Sen. Thomas Eagleton on the 1972 ticket, following the revelation he used electroshock therapy.
...
Under their proposal, anti-Trump Republicans would use the party's "Rule 8" and "Rule 9" to call a special meeting of the RNC and then vote to fill the vacancy at the top of the ticket.
Rule 8 allows for a minimum of 16 RNC members from 16 separate states to petition for a special meeting of the RNC. And Rule 9 allows for the party fill a vacancy at the top of the ticket.
But there's no rule that says the party can simply take its nomination away from Trump.

Pence?

He's not the only option -- it could be anyone -- but that's who the Journal suggested. He's received plum marks from conservatives and party officials. But as a reminder, this is never going to happen.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:22 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:From the article you didn't link:

In response to questions from The Washington Post, Hope Hicks, a spokeswoman for the Trump Organization, issued a statement saying that the company and its contractors followed all applicable U.S. immigration laws when hiring the site’s several hundred workers.

“Our contractors are required to have prospective employees produce documentation that establishes identity and employment eligibility in compliance with immigration law,” the e-mailed statement said.

Lend Lease, the lead contractor at the site, “requires all contractors performing work at the project to follow all applicable federal, state and local laws,” the statement said.
...
“Mr. Trump, who is the 100 percent owner of the Old Post Office, hired one of the largest contractors in the world to act as the general contractor,” Cohen said in a telephone interview. “That company is Lend Lease. They then go out and employ subcontractors to work for them. The obligation to check all workers on site is exclusive to Lend Lease. This of course assumes that the assertion regarding the employees’ status is accurate.”
They are not Trump's direct employees.

Actually, for what little it's worth, I did link to the article in the earlier post that seemed to get GreenGoo's panties all bunched up. Does forum etiquette require that I repeatedly link to an article in follow-up posts?

Does it matter whether they are direct employees if he benefits from their employment?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:31 pm

Max Peck wrote: Actually, for what little it's worth, I did link to the article in the earlier post that seemed to get GreenGoo's panties all bunched up. Does forum etiquette require that I repeatedly link to an article in follow-up posts?

Does it matter whether they are direct employees if he benefits from their employment?

My apologies. I couldn't find it on a quick search back through

And yes, it does matter if they're direct employees. Trump's org contracted with Lend Lease and no doubt has language that they will check. Lend Lease no doubt has language with their subs that they need to verify, subject to LL's oversight.

How far down the rabbit hole are they supposed to go?

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 2:38 pm

My "panties" were in a bunch because I stated a fact, you claimed it wasn't a fact, and then presented other facts as proof that my fact was untrue, when of course both were true.

It was weird. And it was made even stranger by your assertion that Trump offshores his hires instead of using Americans when his successes have been with real estate.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:01 pm

Trump’s Missing Money

If you’re watching the Olympic games, you may have noticed “Hillary for President” ads. She’s bought $13.6 million worth, while Donald Trump has bought none. In fact, since garnering the Republican nomination, he’s spent $0 on TV. Nonetheless, the Trump campaign spent $63m in July. What happened to it?

Open Secrets uses FEC data to report that, at the end of June, the Trump campaign had $20m on hand. According to the latest Trump reports, they raised an additional $80 million in July and, early in August, had $37m on hand. If you do the math, that means Trump spent $63m in July. He didn’t spend it on TV advertising. How did Trump spend the money?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:12 pm

Moliere wrote:Trump’s Missing Money

If you’re watching the Olympic games, you may have noticed “Hillary for President” ads. She’s bought $13.6 million worth, while Donald Trump has bought none. In fact, since garnering the Republican nomination, he’s spent $0 on TV. Nonetheless, the Trump campaign spent $63m in July. What happened to it?

Open Secrets uses FEC data to report that, at the end of June, the Trump campaign had $20m on hand. According to the latest Trump reports, they raised an additional $80 million in July and, early in August, had $37m on hand. If you do the math, that means Trump spent $63m in July. He didn’t spend it on TV advertising. How did Trump spend the money?

Lock Trump's campaign staff up! Lock Trump's campaign staff up!

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:29 pm

Considering Trump reimburses himself for everything, from hosting his own campaign rallies at his resorts to using his private jet to fly around for campaign purposes, I'm not surprised that they blew through that money.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:42 pm

Moliere wrote: How did Trump spend the money?

If you ever have to ask that question, just assume the answer is "hookers and blow."

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:45 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:And yes, it does matter if they're direct employees. Trump's org contracted with Lend Lease and no doubt has language that they will check. Lend Lease no doubt has language with their subs that they need to verify, subject to LL's oversight.

How far down the rabbit hole are they supposed to go?

Fair enough. In my dotage, I think I was conflating the issue with something that came up during the primaries regarding Trump defending his use of foreign workers at one of his properties.

GreenGoo wrote:My "panties" were in a bunch because I stated a fact, you claimed it wasn't a fact, and then presented other facts as proof that my fact was untrue, when of course both were true.

It was weird. And it was made even stranger by your assertion that Trump offshores his hires instead of using Americans when his successes have been with real estate.

No, you expressed the opinion that Trump does hire people like 69-year-old Linda Barnhill (that would be more like Sam Walton than Donald Trump), and I expressed the opinion that he hires whoever is cheapest, just like like he has his merchandise manufactured where ever it is cheapest. But if you want to defend Donald Trump's character and business record, fill yer boots me son.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:45 pm

If Trump is going to build a physical wall around America to keep illegals out of the country, why isn't he doing something similarly extraordinary in his business deals? He can even force the other side to pay for it.

I am worried about Trump hoarding cash for massive media buys in October as a last minute "sweeps" push.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 4:58 pm

Zarathud wrote:If Trump is going to build a physical wall around America to keep illegals out of the country, why isn't he doing something similarly extraordinary in his business deals? He can even force the other side to pay for it.

Isn't that what he does? Which reminds me, why aren't the Hillary faithful out there digging up all of Trump's past business partners? Are they afraid of lawsuits or is it something else?

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:10 pm

LordMortis wrote: Isn't that what he does? Which reminds me, why aren't the Hillary faithful out there digging up all of Trump's past business partners? Are they afraid of lawsuits or is it something else?

They are, and some of the stories during the convention and then later just on the news have already brought some of it to light. But they are also saving up some stuff for after the debates.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 5:12 pm

Max Peck wrote: But if you want to defend Donald Trump's character and business record, fill yer boots me son.

You seem to be literally incapable of retreating once you've established a position. Trump hires Americans. Just like 69 year old whatever her name is. That's a fact. You said it wasn't true, but it is. Just say you were wrong. Or just let it go. It's not that hard. I do it all the freakin' time.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 6:39 pm

Moliere wrote:Trump’s Missing Money

If you’re watching the Olympic games, you may have noticed “Hillary for President” ads. She’s bought $13.6 million worth, while Donald Trump has bought none. In fact, since garnering the Republican nomination, he’s spent $0 on TV. Nonetheless, the Trump campaign spent $63m in July. What happened to it?

Open Secrets uses FEC data to report that, at the end of June, the Trump campaign had $20m on hand. According to the latest Trump reports, they raised an additional $80 million in July and, early in August, had $37m on hand. If you do the math, that means Trump spent $63m in July. He didn’t spend it on TV advertising. How did Trump spend the money?

Here's how Trump spent the money prior to July:

link

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:15 pm

As he continues to slip in the polls, Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump is poised to begin airing his first television ads of the general election starting Friday in Florida, Ohio, North Carolina and Pennsylvania, according to a campaign adviser.

link

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 7:58 pm

Zarathud wrote:If Trump is going to build a physical wall around America to keep illegals out of the country, why isn't he doing something similarly extraordinary in his business deals? He can even force the other side to pay for it.

I am worried about Trump hoarding cash for massive media buys in October as a last minute "sweeps" push.

Probably for the same reason you don't see liberal rich people adhering to the standards they push for, if you hold yourself to it you commit fiscal suicide. I'm sure there were a number of manufacturers that nobly refused to move jobs overseas and all it got them was bankruptcy or being taken over.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:08 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
Max Peck wrote: But if you want to defend Donald Trump's character and business record, fill yer boots me son.
You seem to be literally incapable of retreating once you've established a position. Trump hires Americans. Just like 69 year old whatever her name is. That's a fact. You said it wasn't true, but it is. Just say you were wrong. Or just let it go. It's not that hard. I do it all the freakin' time.

You edited out the part of my post where I clearly deferred to Isgrimnur's superior insight vis-a-vis Trump's employment of immigrants, but I guess it doesn't support your hypothesis and is therefor irrelevant as to whether or not I am "literally" incapable of saying I'm wrong.

I'm just saying that Trump isn't the saviour his followers want him to be. He is all about himself and his best interests, not the best interests of Americans, and his decades-long track record shows that pretty clearly. I obviously didn't express that clearly enough for my meaning to penetrate your noggin. For some reason, once again you just want to pick a fight over minutiae and insist that it's all about how you are right and how I won't accept that you are right. It isn't about you. At all.

Except for that crack about your panties being in a knot. That was totally about you.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:26 pm

Have you ever seen a "Made In the USA" label? Or an email "Please think of the environment before printing" (which is bullshit, as trees are renewable resources)?

Some of my liberal clients DO put their money where their values are, and some of those investments have had amazing returns. The growing trend among charities is to use endowment investments to advance their mission by investment selection and shareholder voting.

Some of my conservative clients do the opposite. One charity can never support any environmental cause or any organization which ever denigrates the oil or fossil fuel industries.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 8:49 pm

Max Peck wrote:
GreenGoo wrote:
Max Peck wrote: But if you want to defend Donald Trump's character and business record, fill yer boots me son.
You seem to be literally incapable of retreating once you've established a position. Trump hires Americans. Just like 69 year old whatever her name is. That's a fact. You said it wasn't true, but it is. Just say you were wrong. Or just let it go. It's not that hard. I do it all the freakin' time.

You edited out the part of my post where I clearly deferred to Isgrimnur's superior insight vis-a-vis Trump's employment of immigrants, but I guess it doesn't support your hypothesis and is therefor irrelevant as to whether or not I am "literally" incapable of saying I'm wrong.

I'm just saying that Trump isn't the saviour his followers want him to be. He is all about himself and his best interests, not the best interests of Americans, and his decades-long track record shows that pretty clearly. I obviously didn't express that clearly enough for my meaning to penetrate your noggin. For some reason, once again you just want to pick a fight over minutiae and insist that it's all about how you are right and how I won't accept that you are right. It isn't about you. At all.

Except for that crack about your panties being in a knot. That was totally about you.

Basic forum etiquette suggests keeping quote nests small and to a minimum. I edit out stuff from everyone I quote. I also tend to edit out stuff that I'm not specifically responding about.

You and I get into this minutiae bullshit repeatedly because you won't shut up even when you're wrong. It's frustrating because it *always* starts with you telling me I'm wrong. In this case what I said was so obviously true that I was confused by your assertion that it wasn't. And instead of conceding the fact, you tried to suggest that he offshores his hires. When reminded that he's in the real estate business, you decided to talk about illegals. None of that was relevant to the idea that Trump can and does hire Americans. At no point did I defend Trump's hiring practices or business ethics, which I'm on record as despising.

I don't think we're going to resolve this sort of thing, because you are far too casual with your snark, and completely incapable of backing off when a reasonable and polite person in the wrong would. You punch my buttons and then complain when I react.

See you next time I guess.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:31 pm

Zarathud wrote:(which is bullshit, as trees are renewable resources)?

that thought process is kinda like my workplace thinking that just by providing compostable flatware, bowls and cups, they're totally off the hook for all environmental concerns. because apparently when it's compostable, it's zero environmental cost?
well, there's also the processing, manufacturing, transport and such of paper, so there is* impact.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 9:38 pm

It doesn't help if no one actually composts them.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:11 pm

I don't normally go for dance electronica but they do a great job

http://www.metrotimes.com/Blogs/archive ... use-anthem

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:16 pm

LordMortis wrote:I don't normally go for dance electronica but they do a great job

http://www.metrotimes.com/Blogs/archive ... use-anthem

That's awesome.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Tue Aug 16, 2016 10:49 pm

GreenGoo wrote: You and I get into this minutiae bullshit repeatedly because you won't shut up even when you're wrong. It's frustrating because it *always* starts with you telling me I'm wrong.

Funny, to me it seems that it always starts with you telling me that I told you that you were wrong, and then refusing to listen when I try to explain what I actually meant. I've got no issue with the idea that I don't always express myself clearly (crap social interaction skills are baked into my design), but if the only acceptible conclusion every time you decide to butt heads with me is that I should say that you're right and I'm wrong and then just shut up, then I don't necessarily think that I'm the real problem in the first place.

GreenGoo wrote:See you next time I guess.

No, I think that maybe we should see other people from now on.

Spoiler: