Octopus Overlords

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 7:12 pm My in-laws are teachers deep in MAGA, PA and they're under the impression that they'll be required to provide in-person instruction 5 days a week starting in a few weeks. There's no way to maintain 6+ feet of social distancing based on classroom size so they're lowering it to ~4ft. I guess they're just waiting to hear back from the virus to see if that's acceptable.

TheTimes.co.uk wrote:There has been no recorded case of a teacher catching the coronavirus from a pupil anywhere in the world, according to one of the government’s leading scientific advisers.

Mark Woolhouse, a leading epidemiologist and member of the government’s Sage committee, told The Times that it may have been a mistake to close schools in March given the limited role children play in spreading the virus.

Schools in England are preparing to reopen in full from September. Some primary year groups were invited back for lessons before the summer holidays but most pupils have had no face-to-face teaching for four months.

“One thing we have learnt is that children are certainly, in the 5 to 15 brackets from school to early years, minimally involved in the epidemiology of this virus,” Professor Woolhouse, an infectious disease epidemiologist at Edinburgh University, said. “They are probably less susceptible and vanishingly unlikely to end up in hospital or to die from it.

“There is increasing evidence that they rarely transmit. For example, it is extremely difficult to find any instance anywhere in the world as a single example of a child transmitting to a teacher in school. There may have been one in Australia but it is incredibly rare.

“There are certain environments where this virus transmits very well and children are not present in these environments.”

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:20 pm No known case of teacher catching coronavirus from pupils, says scientist

YellowKing wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:57 pm And even though it's not fair to extrapolate my personal experience to teachers as a whole, we had a bad experience in March where "remote learning" was the teacher dumping a week's worth of homework on the kids, setting up a once a week Zoom call, then going to the beach and posting pictures sipping margaritas.

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 9:23 pm As was pointed out to me earlier today, everyone screaming about how important socialization is for kids didn't really have much to say about Sandy Hook or how kids need to sit through active shooter drills as part of their "socialization" now in schools.

YellowKing wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:57 pm I'd also expect if schools are so dangerous, that we'd be hearing of daycare outbreaks all over the country. The daycares have never closed here, and I'm sure daycare teachers who have been working every day since the pandemic started are rolling their eyes at the teacher complaints about going back to the classroom.

RunningMn9 wrote:YK, I would also consider that for the most part, most areas of the country ain’t seen nothing yet. You guys have had kids in day care, but that was while the virus wasn’t really circulating in your state. When the country shut down in March, there weren’t 70000 new cases per day.

YellowKing wrote:

RunningMn9 wrote:YK, I would also consider that for the most part, most areas of the country ain’t seen nothing yet. You guys have had kids in day care, but that was while the virus wasn’t really circulating in your state. When the country shut down in March, there weren’t 70000 new cases per day.

And to be fair, I'm only looking at this through the prism of NC, where masks, social distancing, drastically reduced class sizes, etc. are going to be enforced. It's certainly not that way in all states, and there is no way in hell I would condone sending kids back to full classrooms and no precautions as the White House is seemingly suggesting.

YellowKing wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:57 pm I'd also expect if schools are so dangerous, that we'd be hearing of daycare outbreaks all over the country. The daycares have never closed here, and I'm sure daycare teachers who have been working every day since the pandemic started are rolling their eyes at the teacher complaints about going back to the classroom.

This is why I've been a bit defensive with family about my decision to send the kids back to school. They're in daycare now and have been for weeks - the fact is that they're going to he MORE safe at school because masks and social distancing will be required.

And even though it's not fair to extrapolate my personal experience to teachers as a whole, we had a bad experience in March where "remote learning" was the teacher dumping a week's worth of homework on the kids, setting up a once a week Zoom call, then going to the beach and posting pictures sipping margaritas. So I feel a twinge of "boo hoo cry me a fucking river" when I hear a teacher complain about having to actually do their job. Again, I know that's not fair and doesn't apply to all teachers, or even a majority of them. But again, was just a bad experience that really rubbed me the wrong way. On top of that, my wife works administratively in the front office of the school, and has been on site almost the entire pandemic meeting with multiple parents and staff every single day. So she has ZERO sympathy for them.

GungHo wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:40 pm Edit : I saw a study that was done in South Korea that showed kids ages 10+ were as effective a spreading vector as adults while kids under that age were not. Google it and I'm sure you'll see the study. Interesting results whatever your personal decisions ultimately are.

In the heated debate over reopening schools, one burning question has been whether and how efficiently children can spread the virus to others.

A large new study from South Korea offers an answer: Children younger than 10 transmit to others much less often than adults do, but the risk is not zero. And those between the ages of 10 and 19 can spread the virus at least as well as adults do.

The findings suggest that as schools reopen, communities will see clusters of infection take root that include children of all ages, several experts cautioned.

“I fear that there has been this sense that kids just won’t get infected or don’t get infected in the same way as adults and that, therefore, they’re almost like a bubbled population,” said Michael Osterholm, an infectious diseases expert at the University of Minnesota.

“There will be transmission,” Dr. Osterholm said. “What we have to do is accept that now and include that in our plans.”

GungHo wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:40 pm

YellowKing wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:57 pm I'd also expect if schools are so dangerous, that we'd be hearing of daycare outbreaks all over the country. The daycares have never closed here, and I'm sure daycare teachers who have been working every day since the pandemic started are rolling their eyes at the teacher complaints about going back to the classroom.

This is why I've been a bit defensive with family about my decision to send the kids back to school. They're in daycare now and have been for weeks - the fact is that they're going to he MORE safe at school because masks and social distancing will be required.

And even though it's not fair to extrapolate my personal experience to teachers as a whole, we had a bad experience in March where "remote learning" was the teacher dumping a week's worth of homework on the kids, setting up a once a week Zoom call, then going to the beach and posting pictures sipping margaritas. So I feel a twinge of "boo hoo cry me a fucking river" when I hear a teacher complain about having to actually do their job. Again, I know that's not fair and doesn't apply to all teachers, or even a majority of them. But again, was just a bad experience that really rubbed me the wrong way. On top of that, my wife works administratively in the front office of the school, and has been on site almost the entire pandemic meeting with multiple parents and staff every single day. So she has ZERO sympathy for them.

Totally anecdotal but my youngest's daycare shut down the second week he was back. They closed everything down in March and we put him back in the last week of May. We paid thru August but we've kept him home anyway.

I think the take home message is nobody knows for sure.


Edit : I saw a study that was done in South Korea that showed kids ages 10+ were as effective a spreading vector as adults while kids under that age were not. Google it and I'm sure you'll see the study. Interesting results whatever your personal decisions ultimately are.

$iljanus wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:40 pm The major testing companies in MA according to the Boston Globe are facing backlogs due to the sheer number of out of state tests being sent to them.

Fuck you, maskless red state leeches.

$iljanus wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:10 pm We were trying to plan a short getaway within the state of MA since are neighboring states consider us a pariah state but after reading in the Boston Globe that there's up to a 1 week turnaround for test results in MA we decided that a staycation with some nice day trips is the way to go.

Such an epic fail all around in this country.

YellowKing wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:57 pm I'd also expect if schools are so dangerous, that we'd be hearing of daycare outbreaks all over the country. The daycares have never closed here, and I'm sure daycare teachers who have been working every day since the pandemic started are rolling their eyes at the teacher complaints about going back to the classroom.

YellowKing wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 8:57 pm I'd also expect if schools are so dangerous, that we'd be hearing of daycare outbreaks all over the country. The daycares have never closed here, and I'm sure daycare teachers who have been working every day since the pandemic started are rolling their eyes at the teacher complaints about going back to the classroom.

Max Peck wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:54 pm

GungHo wrote: Tue Jul 21, 2020 11:40 pm Edit : I saw a study that was done in South Korea that showed kids ages 10+ were as effective a spreading vector as adults while kids under that age were not. Google it and I'm sure you'll see the study. Interesting results whatever your personal decisions ultimately are.

Older Children Spread the Coronavirus Just as Much as Adults, Large Study Finds

In the heated debate over reopening schools, one burning question has been whether and how efficiently children can spread the virus to others.

A large new study from South Korea offers an answer: Children younger than 10 transmit to others much less often than adults do, but the risk is not zero. And those between the ages of 10 and 19 can spread the virus at least as well as adults do.

The findings suggest that as schools reopen, communities will see clusters of infection take root that include children of all ages, several experts cautioned.

“I fear that there has been this sense that kids just won’t get infected or don’t get infected in the same way as adults and that, therefore, they’re almost like a bubbled population,” said Michael Osterholm, an infectious diseases expert at the University of Minnesota.

“There will be transmission,” Dr. Osterholm said. “What we have to do is accept that now and include that in our plans.”

YellowKing wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:16 am No matter what you decide, you've got half the population questioning your parental skills, and it's a terrible position to be in.

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:23 am

YellowKing wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:16 am No matter what you decide, you've got half the population questioning your parental skills, and it's a terrible position to be in.

I saw a meme that I am failing to re-find now, but it hit home. Something like

How to react to a parent's choice regarding the upcoming school year:

In-person learning: "That must have been a very difficult choice. I support your decision and am here for you if you need anything."
Remote learning: "That must have been a very difficult choice. I support your decision and am here for you if you need anything."
Homeschooling: "That must have been a very difficult choice. I support your decision and am here for you if you need anything."

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:23 am How to react to a parent's choice regarding the upcoming school year:

In-person learning: "That must have been a very difficult choice. I support your decision and am here for you if you need anything."
Remote learning: "That must have been a very difficult choice. I support your decision and am here for you if you need anything."
Homeschooling: "That must have been a very difficult choice. I support your decision and am here for you if you need anything."

Tarrant County’s top health authorities announced Tuesday that local public and non-religious private schools will only be able to provide online classes for the first six weeks of the 2020-21 school year — until at least Sept. 28 — because of the rising cases of coronavirus.

The announcement affects Fort Worth, Arlington and all local school districts.

The goal is to keep students at home until several weeks after the Sept. 7 Labor Day holiday to avoid a potential spike in cases that could quickly spread through schools. There have been 22,665 positive cases of COVID-19, which includes 304 deaths, in Tarrant County as of Tuesday.

“This is a moment in time like nothing I’ve seen,” Catherine Colquitt, Tarrant County’s public health authority and medical director, said during the Tarrant County Commissioners meeting. “We all feel we have to do something.

“If we don’t make some effort to delay the openings, we might jeopardize our capacity to care for people.”
...
The order, which goes into effect immediately and runs through 11:59 p.m. on Sept. 27, says schools shouldn’t open for in-person schooling except for:

▪ Teachers and staff may conduct online classes from school if they use face coverings and social distance;

▪ School-sponsored events such as sports, band, choir and more may take place remotely or outdoors with social distancing, face coverings and other safety protocols in place;

▪ Special education may occur when necessary at schools with social distancing and face coverings; and

▪ Students who don’t have access to a computer or Internet access may learn at school.

This order does not affect private, religious schools.

Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:48 am

This order does not affect private, religious schools.

em2nought wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:34 am Democrats are suddenly worried about the old "racist" people who they can't stand going to Thanksgiving Dinner with

Malificent wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:33 am My daughter was a junior counselor at a summer camp this summer. They only had kids 9+. They wore masks, they did social distancing, enhanced cleaning procedures, etc. It went fine for about a month and a half. Then one of the other counselors got covid from somewhere (they didn't know where) and the camp shut down, everyone had to get tested, etc.

This is why I'm not real confident in opening schools back up. What happens when a teacher gets covid? Or someone handling lunches? Or a janitor? Do you shut down and quarantine just the teacher's class? The whole school? A week? Two weeks?

Duke has returned to school and they have an app (that looks like it was developed for the health side and is being adapted) that requires you to enter symptoms and if any symptom matches, then you have to wait for a call from someone to get more context before you're allowed to go into the office. Which is great. But my boss, for example, is nearly 50 and went on a hiking trip over the weekend. They reported muscle aches and the app told them not to come into the office. Older people naturally experience symptoms that could be covid. Do you have more substitute teachers available for all these delay and outages? Do all students fill out the app? Parents fill out for their kids? It feels like this is the level necessary to keep things safe, but is it sustainable? I don't know. I'm just glad I'm not in charge of logistics.

Remus West wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:18 pm

Malificent wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 10:33 am My daughter was a junior counselor at a summer camp this summer. They only had kids 9+. They wore masks, they did social distancing, enhanced cleaning procedures, etc. It went fine for about a month and a half. Then one of the other counselors got covid from somewhere (they didn't know where) and the camp shut down, everyone had to get tested, etc.

This is why I'm not real confident in opening schools back up. What happens when a teacher gets covid? Or someone handling lunches? Or a janitor? Do you shut down and quarantine just the teacher's class? The whole school? A week? Two weeks?

Duke has returned to school and they have an app (that looks like it was developed for the health side and is being adapted) that requires you to enter symptoms and if any symptom matches, then you have to wait for a call from someone to get more context before you're allowed to go into the office. Which is great. But my boss, for example, is nearly 50 and went on a hiking trip over the weekend. They reported muscle aches and the app told them not to come into the office. Older people naturally experience symptoms that could be covid. Do you have more substitute teachers available for all these delay and outages? Do all students fill out the app? Parents fill out for their kids? It feels like this is the level necessary to keep things safe, but is it sustainable? I don't know. I'm just glad I'm not in charge of logistics.

I'd also like to know how they plan on figuring sick days. Am I spending a sick day when they tell me to stay home because of muscle cramp? If so, do I get a lot more of them this year to cover for that or should I plan on not only working in riskier conditions but getting my pay docked as well?

Enough wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:37 pmThat's happening to so many parents I know. With remote learning they don't have anything but leave to use to cover their time doing home-schooling activities and childcare so they are taking it on the chin. Then if they send the kids to school, they likely will whipsaw back and forth from open and closed at some schools likely being just as disruptive to family lives (and of course kids bring home stuff all the time). It's hard to see any right strategy for these parents, many of my friends are choosing in-person learning as they economically don't have another choice. This is o nee of those times as a childless couple we do not envy parents for one second.

malchior wrote:Also, in many states the lock downs shut down day care for a month or more when it was raging initially.

RunningMn9 wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:44 pm Keep in mind that when it was “raging” initially, it was raging in only two states. Everyone else shut down because of what was happening in NY and NJ, but the virus was not circulating in their states anywhere near as much as it was here. So their data from March through June really doesn’t mean much to me.

El Guapo wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:56 pm It just seems like for a decent-sized school, even if the school does everything right, at least one parent or kid in the school community is going to contract coronavirus. And that's not necessarily through the school. And when that happens, what does the school do? Essentially by definition that parent will have had contact with their kid, and that kid will have had contact through the school with a huge chunk of the school population. So does the school shut down at that point, at least temporarily? If so, opening at all seems temporary and mostly pointless. If not, then it seems like we're inevitably creating major disease vectors.

Enough wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 2:08 pm

El Guapo wrote: Wed Jul 22, 2020 1:56 pm It just seems like for a decent-sized school, even if the school does everything right, at least one parent or kid in the school community is going to contract coronavirus. And that's not necessarily through the school. And when that happens, what does the school do? Essentially by definition that parent will have had contact with their kid, and that kid will have had contact through the school with a huge chunk of the school population. So does the school shut down at that point, at least temporarily? If so, opening at all seems temporary and mostly pointless. If not, then it seems like we're inevitably creating major disease vectors.

That is exactly the plan for our school district. Two infections in 14 days means a cluster and they shut er' down for a couple of weeks for deep cleaning and go back again in theory. It's nutso.