[WW] Crimson Moon III - Game ends in a Draw?

[Remus West]

No I don't think that would be helpful. I am sure I can imagine exactly how that would go. I hope you are a wolf Remus but if you are not I believe you understand this is a lynch we have to do. If it is any consolation I am sure I will be joining you shortly.

I'm not but I went into this day expecting to be lynched. I asked that folks share their top two so that maybe you guys could look back at them when I am gone. Good luck.

[Remus West]

My personal belief is the wolves lie in the Remus, Zurai, or Newcastle direction.

Well gee, aren't you the sleuth. Silky and myself (and I think Newcastle) have said that triggercut is almost certainly innocent so you take him out of the loop but leave everyone else not named Bubbles or cleared by the Priest in the wolf group. Wow. Good thinking there. Your first contribution of any type of analysis narrows down the field exactly not at all. Oh, I forgot, you happily pointed the finger at everyones favorite whipping boy as well.

Zurai and Bubbles.

Go ahead and lynch me today but when the Coroner comes forward and clears me you will know you have two left and those two should be the ones.

Remus Would you like some cheese with your whine.. Man... take it like a man and suck it up. Whether think I'm a sluth or not.. I could care less. I was asked my opinion and I gave it.. you don't like it.. tough.

You did not give your opinion though. You said exactly nothing. And thanks for the whining coment, have I ever said I thought I would not be lynched today?

Again, notice that Bubbles has made it this entire game while saying NOTHING. EVER.

[Mr Bubbles]

My personal belief is the wolves lie in the Remus, Zurai, or Newcastle direction.

Well gee, aren't you the sleuth. Silky and myself (and I think Newcastle) have said that triggercut is almost certainly innocent so you take him out of the loop but leave everyone else not named Bubbles or cleared by the Priest in the wolf group. Wow. Good thinking there. Your first contribution of any type of analysis narrows down the field exactly not at all. Oh, I forgot, you happily pointed the finger at everyones favorite whipping boy as well.

Zurai and Bubbles.

Go ahead and lynch me today but when the Coroner comes forward and clears me you will know you have two left and those two should be the ones.

Remus Would you like some cheese with your whine.. Man... take it like a man and suck it up. Whether think I'm a sluth or not.. I could care less. I was asked my opinion and I gave it.. you don't like it.. tough.

You did not give your opinion though. You said exactly nothing. And thanks for the whining coment, have I ever said I thought I would not be lynched today?

Again, notice that Bubbles has made it this entire game while saying NOTHING. EVER.

How exactly do you know I didn't give my opinion. Maybe I dunno.. I saw the same things as everyone else.. I dunno.. call it a blind guess, but that maybe could be the case.

[Remus West]

No I don't think that would be helpful. I am sure I can imagine exactly how that would go. I hope you are a wolf Remus but if you are not I believe you understand this is a lynch we have to do. If it is any consolation I am sure I will be joining you shortly.

I'm not but I went into this day expecting to be lynched. I asked that folks share their top two so that maybe you guys could look back at them when I am gone. Good luck.

By the way, would it help make it a good idea if I offered to refrain from any comments regarding folks choices of top two?



Also, CR, since it has been bugging me, did the Seer get a scan the first night? I have been assuming he did since all the other games that started with night allowed that but I could be wrong. Not that it really has an impact now.

[Silky]

I suppose what I do not want to happen is the inevitable of

Mr. Bubbles would lynch Newcastle and Zurai
Zurai would lynch Newcastle and Mr. Bubbles
Newcastle would lynch Zurai and Mr. Bubbles

I would urge everyone to take the lead of either pr0ner or myself after the night killings. I don't want villagers to slip up and put two votes on an innocent and allow the wolves to potentially win the game. It will/may suck if your number is called after Remus but at least the villagers know we are trying our best.

I don't think it to be very helpful for pr0ner or triggercut to make lists of two. That doesn't give much incentive for number two on the list to go along with the direction they feel is best.

[triggercut]

Also, CR, since it has been bugging me, did the Seer get a scan the first night? I have been assuming he did since all the other games that started with night allowed that but I could be wrong. Not that it really has an impact now.

If there are games that start with the bad guy team picking a victim that also allow a seer to scan that same turn, I've never seen one, and thus assume that they're rare and the exception rather than the rule. Why would the seer be doing scans before he was aware that there were badguys out there killing villagers?

[Remus West]

Also, CR, since it has been bugging me, did the Seer get a scan the first night? I have been assuming he did since all the other games that started with night allowed that but I could be wrong. Not that it really has an impact now.

If there are games that start with the bad guy team picking a victim that also allow a seer to scan that same turn, I've never seen one, and thus assume that they're rare and the exception rather than the rule. Why would the seer be doing scans before he was aware that there were badguys out there killing villagers?

Seriously, have you played any of these games before? EVERY one of them that starts at night has given the wolves a victem and the Seer a scan. Otherwise why not call me out for the first day comment when I said it looked like Silky was the Seer and had scanned you?

[Remus West]

I suppose what I do not want to happen is the inevitable of

Mr. Bubbles would lynch Newcastle and Zurai
Zurai would lynch Newcastle and Mr. Bubbles
Newcastle would lynch Zurai and Mr. Bubbles

I did not mean their top two exculding me. I asked for the top two because I figured I was going to be everyone's number 1.

[Remus West]

I agree with Silky. I think the Coroner needs to come out before the night cycle. I tell you my spidey sense keeps going off everytime Remus talks. We have a block and I certainly believe we have a couple other people who are trustworthy to really narrow down the pool. I know also that I won't be exempt from the unproven pool, but I really have faith that Trigger is innocent. Zurai is another story. If there is two I would put my finger on Remus and Zurai. Newcastle doesn't strike me as a guilty party, but based on analysis seems to be a top candidate. My personal belief is the wolves lie in the Remus, Zurai, or Newcastle direction.

This is not an opinion. This is "I agree with everyone so I do not seem combative" combined with "I refuse to make a distiction between the only ones that matter right now". Nevermind though, Silky doesn't seem to like the top two idea and I suppose that is what I am bugging you for so don't bother. You still haven't said anything though.

[triggercut]

Also, CR, since it has been bugging me, did the Seer get a scan the first night? I have been assuming he did since all the other games that started with night allowed that but I could be wrong. Not that it really has an impact now.

If there are games that start with the bad guy team picking a victim that also allow a seer to scan that same turn, I've never seen one, and thus assume that they're rare and the exception rather than the rule. Why would the seer be doing scans before he was aware that there were badguys out there killing villagers?

Seriously, have you played any of these games before? EVERY one of them that starts at night has given the wolves a victem and the Seer a scan. Otherwise why not call me out for the first day comment when I said it looked like Silky was the Seer and had scanned you?

I think my vote for you to the noose represents calling out fairly well.

[Silky]

Clearly I cannot chose the goblet in front of me.

If for instance pr0ner and myself say I would lynch in this order

Player A
Player B
Player C

It leaves the wolf(es) open to pick the one that best suites their purposes to slay. Is it the double blind bluff? Did they really mean to silence that person or are they actually trying to make it look like that? Do you get my drift Remus?

[triggercut]

I note with interest that a latenight flurry of voting has pushed Remus to 3 votes.

I also note that if our Coroner lives and has info that contradicts "Lassr innocent/Austin wolf" or info on Grund or tru1cy, I'd like to see it before we go to night cycle.

To give our coroner a chance to catch up, I'm withdrawing Remus until we hear from the Coroner or I have to go back to work Sunday. Short-lived reprieve, unless Dr. Quincy has some nugget of remarkable information to share, I'll be reinstating it then.

[Chaosraven]

Also, CR, since it has been bugging me, did the Seer get a scan the first night? I have been assuming he did since all the other games that started with night allowed that but I could be wrong. Not that it really has an impact now.

The Seer was indeed given the option on the first night. I neglected to put Seer Must Choose SCAN/CONTACT on the Night One prompts.

Y'know, if you guys have questions like this, you can ask me by PM for a private response or in thread for a public response.

[Mr Bubbles]

I understand my lack of active participation has causes some suspicion. While I certainly cannot articulate my innocence I am willing to vote based on the votes of pr0ner trigger and silky. If I need to be sacraficed at some point that is fine, but I will be holding my future votes until we come to a consensus which I think is a fine suggestion Trig

[triggercut]

Also, CR, since it has been bugging me, did the Seer get a scan the first night? I have been assuming he did since all the other games that started with night allowed that but I could be wrong. Not that it really has an impact now.

The Seer was indeed given the option on the first night. I neglected to put Seer Must Choose SCAN/CONTACT on the Night One prompts.

Y'know, if you guys have questions like this, you can ask me by PM for a private response or in thread for a public response.

Cool, thanks for the clarification. When I didn't see the Seer prompted for a night one scan, I assumed he didn't get one. No worries though, as about the only thing that changes is that it makes me even more certain that our Coroner would have scanned Austin last night.

[triggercut]

BTW, I assume our Coroner has nothing new to add (provided he still lives) so I'm back on with a vote to

lynch Remus.

[Newcastle]

/walks up to the village center


I was going to vote last night, seeing that everyone had checked in. However, I saw Triggercut comments and withdrawal of his vote to give the coroner time to check in. So i decided to hold off.

I vote remus

[Remus West]

Also, CR, since it has been bugging me, did the Seer get a scan the first night? I have been assuming he did since all the other games that started with night allowed that but I could be wrong. Not that it really has an impact now.

If there are games that start with the bad guy team picking a victim that also allow a seer to scan that same turn, I've never seen one, and thus assume that they're rare and the exception rather than the rule. Why would the seer be doing scans before he was aware that there were badguys out there killing villagers?

Seriously, have you played any of these games before? EVERY one of them that starts at night has given the wolves a victem and the Seer a scan. Otherwise why not call me out for the first day comment when I said it looked like Silky was the Seer and had scanned you?

I think my vote for you to the noose represents calling out fairly well.

Not as a wolf, but for the exact same "slip" Austin made? For that matter Newcastle made it too as did Silky when we were all talking about my first day play. Sheesh.

[Remus West]

Clearly I cannot chose the goblet in front of me.

If for instance pr0ner and myself say I would lynch in this order

Player A
Player B
Player C

It leaves the wolf(es) open to pick the one that best suites their purposes to slay. Is it the double blind bluff? Did they really mean to silence that person or are they actually trying to make it look like that? Do you get my drift Remus?

Ah, yes, sorry. Wasn't actually interested in your thoughts as we know you will tell true when the time comes. I really wanted everyone else besides you and pr0ner to post theirs.

Anyway, I'm dead man talking now until CR shows up to end it for me. Hopefully the Coroner is still alive and can, in some way, gain your trust because I am not a wolf and he will be 1 of three who know this.

I still think Zurai is one but have recently had some misgivings about triggercut. If he is not the Coroner, which he has repeatedly denied, then he is very likely a wolf. Where else did such strong conviction regarding Lassr' innocence come from? Anyway, my trust in him was based on that conviction AND the attack on Austin but it is possible the wolves planned to lynch Austin. Sadly I still doubt that though, so triggercut, if you are a wolf, masterfully done as even with this nagging doubt I would never vote you.

Anyway:
Zurai
then you will have to make your best guess, I go back and forth between Newcastle and Bubbles about as often as I read the thread. I lean more towards Bubbles as the third.

[Zurai]

BTW, I assume our Coroner has nothing new to add (provided he still lives) so I'm back on with a vote to

Don't be so hasty. I was waiting for everyone to get a chance to check in - the games usually slow down a lot on the weekends.

I am the Coroner.

On night 1, I didn't get a scan, as there was no one dead until the morning.
On night 2, I had a choice between Grundbegriff and Lassr. I chose Lassr; my thought process was that the wolves had to choose Grund blindly, so there was only a 1/4 chance of him being anything but an innocent villager (2 specials other than me + 6 innocents).
Lassr was an innocent Painter.
On night 3, I had a choice between Grundbegriff, Austin, and tru1cy. This was a hard choice. I discounted Grund for the same reason as above, but the choice between Austin and tru1cy took me a while to narrow down. On the one hand, I was almost sure of Austin's wolfitude after Unagi's emergence as the Priest cleared pr0ner. On the other hand, being 100% sure would be a big boon to the village. Ultimately, my curiosity got the better of me, and I checked tru1cy; I think that actually ended up the better choice.
tru1cy was the Seer.

I believe the reason the wolves killed tru1cy was because of how tightly he latched onto the Austin vote in day 1 and how he refused to let go. Seriously, go back and read day 1 again; he was like a bulldog. They must have suspected him as the seer from that - and that means Austin was, indeed, a wolf.

Why did I delay so long in coming out? Because I was hoping the wolves would see the delay as there being a dead Coroner and have one of them come out to fake it, where I could step forward and (while probably sacrificing myself doing so) expose them. It doesn't seem like they're going to take the bait, though, and I do have "new" information for the village, so here I am.

With the information I have, the Lassr lynch on day 1 almost has to have been a wolvish ploy to save Austin. tru1cy had scanned him the first night, gotten lucky, and nailed him on day 1; the wolves were desperate to kill someone else before too much momentum built up on Austin. I would bet quite a bit that all three wolves were in on the Lassr vote.

Now, cue the incoming calls for my head as a fake Coroner, since everyone seems to disbelieve everything I say this game.

[Remus West]

If Zurai is telling the truth then you have the choices between Bubbles, Newcastle, and triggercut. Go back and see if you can find where triggercut's surety of Lassr's innocence comes from. I can't.

[Silky]

Thanks for coming forward and for the information Zurai.

[Silky]

If you are actually the coroner you are terrible for the wolves. I may not be around much longer so I have some recommendations. You guys feel free to follow them or not as you see fit of course.

1. Lynch Zurai as your last miss. That way if it is a wolf ploy the village is covered there and the village wins. This also almost certainly guarantees that Zurai will not be slain overnight as well.

2. Zurai absolutely should ID Remus and anybody lynched from here on out.

[Silky]

If Zurai is telling the truth then you have the choices between Bubbles, Newcastle, and triggercut. Go back and see if you can find where triggercut's surety of Lassr's innocence comes from. I can't.

I just have this bad feeling that if Triggercut is a wolf the village loses. I put those odds at somewhere between 5 and 10 percent. If he is a wolf I will be the first to give mad props to the wolf team after the game.

[Remus West]

If Zurai is telling the truth then you have the choices between Bubbles, Newcastle, and triggercut. Go back and see if you can find where triggercut's surety of Lassr's innocence comes from. I can't.

I just have this bad feeling that if Triggercut is a wolf the village loses. I put those odds at somewhere between 5 and 10 percent. If he is a wolf I will be the first to give mad props to the wolf team after the game.

Yeah, I kind of agree with you on that, but look at how hard he went after Austin based off the idea Lassr was innocent. Only the Coroner and the Wolves would know that. Since he is not the Coroner.....
Look how quickly and hard he came after me today. I know I am not a wolf so......

[Newcastle]

/looks at the sky and sinking sun, hustles over to the village center,

/overhears the latest news, thinks for a moment.

interesting zurai, very interesting....anyone else care to comment or counter that claim? Sorry if i am hesitant in believing your claim. I want to believe. But, I am gonna wait till we hear from bubbles or triggercut. It could very well be a wolf ploy. Especially since we have had austin already claim to be the seer. Though will say acoming out an dbeing a target amongst the three helps your case. sorry if i dont believe you, ....i have to look at this with a grain of salt.

[Remus West]

Just as a side note.

Also look at the evidence against Austin BEFORE his Seer claim AND before Unagi came forward.

Look at the evidence against me. I have been condemned mostly for saying the evidence against Austin BEFORE the Unagi claim was weak AND that there was a possibility Unagi was lying.

Both times triggercut came hard against the said party. What made HIM so certain that Austin was a wolf after the Seer claim but before the Priest claim? Why would he not want to give the Seer time to prove himself?

[Grundbegriff]

Y'know, if you guys have questions like this, you can ask me by PM for a private response or in thread for a public response.

...or you could intervene with a clarification of the rules when the issue first crops up in a conspicuous way over several pages of discussion -- assuming you're following the thread

[pr0ner]

Remus, here's something that might help you prove your innocence.

What's your role?

[Unagi]

[triggercut]

Zurai's our other wolf.

I'm sure of it. 100%.


I am the coroner. I've been waiting and waiting and waiting and waiting to catch our third wolf trying to "come out" as my role.

First off, I did indeed scan both Lassr's and Austin's bodies.

Lassr was innocent. Austin was a wolf. I know both player's professions, and I can promise you that Lassr was no painter. Nope, nope, nope. I will hold that information in abeyance for now as we try to figure out a way to divine a way to disprove Zurai's claim; as it is, I think there's no way to do it, because Zurai can just pass on his profession to Lassr.

I'm at work right now, posting between the lull between brunch and dinner service, but if you believed me before, please believe me now: I'm the Coroner, and Zurai is the last wolf after Remus.

Game, set, match.

[Remus West]

Remus, here's something that might help you prove your innocence.

What's your role?

I'll leave that for the Coroner to tell you. Besides, wolves were assigned roles too so my telling you mine would mean nothing and keep in mind they have already formed a very tangled web of deciet for you to pour thorough.

[Zurai]

Zurai's our other wolf.

I'm sure of it. 100%.


I am the coroner.

Bullshit.

If you were the coroner, you would have KNOWN that Special Villagers did not get a minor role, because YOU would not have gotten a minor role.

[Unagi]

[Mr Bubbles]

Say the word and I will be willing to change my vote to Trigger. I will go back and reread, but we've been waiting for the coroner to come forward and we've waited a while. Now that Zurai comes out Trigger responds fairly fast. That strikes me as awfully wolfish.

[Zurai]

"roles" are identities, but confer no actual abilities.
the nine roles: Butcher, Baker, CandlestickMaker, Poet, Painter, Thatcher, Blacksmith, Ditchdigger, and Carpenter.

Game begins on Night One.

That's 9 roles for 9 villagers.

What are those secondary professions again, Austin?

Quoted for posterity.

[triggercut]

BTW, when I started my drive against Austin yesterday, it wasn't based on an "assumption" of Lassr's innocence; rather it was based on my absolute knowledge of it due to my role.

I then had to figure out a way to let the village somehow know that Lassr was innocent while trying to protect myself and stay alive long enough to be sure that I could verify Austin. Once done with that, I've been trying to draw out our last wolf. Which we've done.

So, you wanna buy a bunny?

Here's how the Village wins the game.

1. We lynch Remus tonight
2. I scan him and report his wolfiness tomorrow (the wolves can't kill me, or it'll prove Zurai's guilt)
3. You lynch me the next day. No biggie, and no hard feelings. Zurai will come back and report me as a wolf. Don't buy it.
4. You lynch Zurai. Village wins.

[Zurai]

And to back that up...

Triggercut must be a wolf.

[triggercut]

Zurai's our other wolf.

I'm sure of it. 100%.


I am the coroner.

Bullshit.

If you were the coroner, you would have KNOWN that Special Villagers did not get a minor role, because YOU would not have gotten a minor role.

I knew I didn't have a minor role. I had thought the roles were split amongst the villagers and not wolves or specials.

[Remus West]

I'm the Coroner, and Zurai is the last wolf after Remus.

Game, set, match.

I lean more towards believing you but I am no wolf. You will find that out tonight.

BOTH Zurai and triggercut MUST be held accountable for a scan of me tomorrow. Check their answers carefully. They will both be around though because the wolves can not kill one without exposing the other.