Drinking with a Angel and Demon - Round Four

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Tue May 26, 2009 11:54 pm

oh boy, not good not good. I was hoping we'd have another two days to figure this out. I think a couple of things right now in how to proceed.

1. If someone received a rumor w/ the evil person's name...please feel free to pour.

2. failing that, god i hate this part because it's a helluva leap of faith.....i suggest the three unknowns...remus, theohall and newcastle all pour PRIOR to Grund pouring. I think we insist that they all pour before. I am taking a huge ass leap of faith that grund is good here....i know there are things pointing he is, and i will buy..yes i am still hesitant but all things considered he's the best looking one here out of all of us...but we let him act as control..and if anyone deviates from teh above 3 unknown pour, then most likely we hvae our evil. And grund, if you are evil, hats off to you, well played.

3. Lets see what everyone thinks in terms of plans before we go ahead. I hate to get ahead of ourselves.

4. I'd hate to be in your shoes semaj, you're going to have a helluva choice to make this round. Try to stall as long as possible and see if yuo can stop a ninja pour....maybe have 3 drafts ready w/ names...since most likely we'll be focusing in on people.

Right now in my gut...i am thinking theohall...just lettin folks know...i am wondering if his "3 pours before me slip" is indeed a "poke the innnocents" moment from him. But then again why would he pour on to stessier right?

And remus, good ole remus...am not sure what to read in him...gonna have to look back through things on him.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:16 am

Newcastle wrote:oh boy, not good not good. I was hoping we'd have another two days to figure this out. I think a couple of things right now in how to proceed.

1. If someone received a rumor w/ the evil person's name...please feel free to pour.

2. failing that, god i hate this part because it's a helluva leap of faith.....i suggest the three unknowns...remus, theohall and newcastle all pour PRIOR to Grund pouring. I think we insist that they all pour before. I am taking a huge ass leap of faith that grund is good here....i know there are things pointing he is, and i will buy..yes i am still hesitant but all things considered he's the best looking one here out of all of us...but we let him act as control..and if anyone deviates from teh above 3 unknown pour, then most likely we hvae our evil. And grund, if you are evil, hats off to you, well played.

3. Lets see what everyone thinks in terms of plans before we go ahead. I hate to get ahead of ourselves.

4. I'd hate to be in your shoes semaj, you're going to have a helluva choice to make this round. Try to stall as long as possible and see if yuo can stop a ninja pour....maybe have 3 drafts ready w/ names...since most likely we'll be focusing in on people.

Right now in my gut...i am thinking theohall...just lettin folks know...i am wondering if his "3 pours before me slip" is indeed a "poke the innnocents" moment from him. But then again why would he pour on to stessier right?

And remus, good ole remus...am not sure what to read in him...gonna have to look back through things on him.

I've already explained the stessier pour in round one. He was the last one who had poured a drink prior to me pouring one so he was "to my right".

And now you seem to be confusing the issue. Gonna have to wait and see what Remus says, although I still think he's the guilty one with how carefully stessier avoided mentioning him during his death throes.

Big question - who received a rumor? I didn't. Remus states he didn't. Newcastle appears not to have received one. Not sure about Grund, but that's all the alive non-specials.

I'm guessing whomever is evil received the rumor and just isn't sharing.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:42 am

Unagi or Lassr could have received the rumor as well. And, well, they ain't talking....

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:44 am

Isgrimnur wrote:Unagi or Lassr could have received the rumor as well. And, well, they ain't talking....

Curse you, Demon!

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Wed May 27, 2009 1:49 am

So either the evil guys have gotten 2, or the dead guys have gotten two or some combination thereof... thats pretty frakking unlucky for us.

As far as scoop told me, I'm not allowed to counter the demons poison.

The question is... why... I'm throughly confused as to what I get to do in this game now if I cant attempt to counter that...

I guess the real answer is... someone else needs to follow ISg's lead and throw a poison on that guy, so that ISG's attempt to reverse hits.

Does that make any sense?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 27, 2009 9:03 am

Semaj wrote:So either the evil guys have gotten 2, or the dead guys have gotten two or some combination thereof... thats pretty frakking unlucky for us.

As far as scoop told me, I'm not allowed to counter the demons poison.

The question is... why... I'm throughly confused as to what I get to do in this game now if I cant attempt to counter that...

I guess the real answer is... someone else needs to follow ISg's lead and throw a poison on that guy, so that ISG's attempt to reverse hits.

Does that make any sense?

None of this makes sense. The only thing the rules say you can not counter is food poisoning by the Demon. I haven't gone back and looked but I am almost 100% certain that we talked in thread about the two and Scoop said they canceled each other out. I had figured that Scoop told you you could not counter Isgrimnur's move because of the timing. Did you get your PM sent before 10?

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed May 27, 2009 9:03 am

Mod Note: I apologize to everyone. I thought I had sent the rumor out last night, however, I checked my sent box and it is not there. I must have not hit send when i wrote it up. I have just sent the rumor now to one of the players who was alive in the last round.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed May 27, 2009 9:24 am

Might also want to update the status to 'Round Three'....

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed May 27, 2009 9:59 am

Round Four

Alive:
Isgrimnur
Newcastle
theohall
Grundbegriff
Semaj
Remus West

Dead:
Chaosraven - Vicar Bentley (Goodie Goodie)
Stessier - Admiral Fawkes (Bad Seed)
Unagi - Mr. Astin (Goodie Goodie)
Lassr - Lord Carleton (Goodie Goodie)

Drinks poured:

Players not pouring a drink:
Isgrimnur
Newcastle
theohall
Grundbegriff
Semaj
Remus West

Round Sequence:
1a. Players may inform moderator (by PM) if they choose to poison their wine bottle or own glass (only once).
1b. Players may announce in the main forum that they pour a drink from their bottle of wine into a player's glass (only once).
1c. Demon may administer a single dose of poison or anti-poison into a single player's glass by informing the moderator (by PM). If no player pours a drink for someone then the moderator will give the demon the option administering poison to a player's plate of food.
1d. The Angel can administer a single dose of anti-poison to a player's glass (this is done secretly by sending an IM to the moderator timestamped before the hard deadline) which removes ONE dose of poison from that player's glass of wine. The number of doses anti-poison the Angel can apply depends on the Round. Therefore:
Round 1 = 4 doses of anti-poison
Round 2 = 3 doses of anti-poison
Round 3 = 2 doses of anti-poison
Round 4 and beyond = 1 doses of anti-poison

Hard Deadline - Round Ends
2a. A rumor is whispered to a living player (not angel or demon).
2b. Drinks are drunk. Food is eaten. Players drinking or eating poison die (angel and demon are immune to poison and can not die).
3. The Waiter announces who has died and clears their spots at the table. Next Round begins.

Rounds will take ONE calendar day. All orders for Round Four must be submitted by 10:00 pm (ET) on Wednesday, May 27, 2009.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 27, 2009 10:11 am

Still no rumor for me.

Anyway, the idea I had goes like this:
Given Isgrimnur's ability to take a player out we have today only left. Thus instead of killing one person (which I assume would be me) we kill two. There will be two player left without Demonic activity and 1 left with. This does a few things for us.
1) allows us to choose the second player to be killed rather than Isgrimnur
2) by double poisoning both targets we are assured that both die.

It does not change the day's outcome but rather removes Isgrminur as a factor.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed May 27, 2009 10:24 am

Remus West wrote:Still no rumor for me.

Anyway, the idea I had goes like this:
Given Isgrimnur's ability to take a player out we have today only left. Thus instead of killing one person (which I assume would be me) we kill two. There will be two player left without Demonic activity and 1 left with. This does a few things for us.
1) allows us to choose the second player to be killed rather than Isgrimnur
2) by double poisoning both targets we are assured that both die.

It does not change the day's outcome but rather removes Isgrminur as a factor.

How does that stop Isgrimnur from poisoning the third?

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Wed May 27, 2009 10:27 am

Grundbegriff wrote:
Remus West wrote:Still no rumor for me.

Anyway, the idea I had goes like this:
Given Isgrimnur's ability to take a player out we have today only left. Thus instead of killing one person (which I assume would be me) we kill two. There will be two player left without Demonic activity and 1 left with. This does a few things for us.
1) allows us to choose the second player to be killed rather than Isgrimnur
2) by double poisoning both targets we are assured that both die.

It does not change the day's outcome but rather removes Isgrminur as a factor.
How does that stop Isgrimnur from poisoning the third?

Same reason we would really have to debate killing 2, he has no idea who the last evil guys is either... He can kill you, our suspected trusted, but anyone who plays these games knows killing you might win the game for the good guys

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Wed May 27, 2009 10:41 am

Alive:
Isgrimnur - Demon
Semaj - Angel

One of these lads is evil:
Newcastle
theohall
Remus West
Grundbegriff

3 of these lads are not.

Cases to be made, abridged version... I'll probably re-read later, after my car goes into the shop...
Newcastle: Poured a double and "didnt" poison day 1... course he couldnt have known ISG was the demon... The question has always been: Whats he contributed, was the a move to cover what he did and screw up the "plan" or more of a Newcastle move. Since then he has posted some, but the helpfulness level could be debated. He was my and lassr's top suspect before everyone decided unagi had to go.
Theohall: Unagi has sworn up and down and made a case for killing Theo. Theo claims to have poisoned stessier day 1 but there is no way to prove. Theo has since added some... But it could just be trying to avoid death.
Remus: Thought I was evil, much as he likes to argue otherwise and when I came out Angel he claimed he knew so. If it really is that case, he did a phenomenal job of hiding this fact (Which should have been common knowledge). Remus enjoys wading into the middle of things, so it's hard to figure out if he has had a hidden agenda without re-reading everything.
Grund: Claims to be the man who got stessier killed, when it fact it was Unagi. Lassr and Grund definitely ended up killing him in the end by dogpiling, But it was Unagi who started the train and claimed Stess was evil, before admitting to not poisoning and more or less ruining his chances of being the one to possibly lead up to remuside. Grund is a "master manipulator" and proved last game he is a dangerous lad, even when he seems good. I'd say he'd be a good vote, but I think he's trusted enough ISG would kill him next, so he's the only one who gets a pass, by default

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed May 27, 2009 10:47 am

Isgrimnur
Newcastle
theohall
Grundbegriff
Semaj
Remus West

Scenario A: poisoning Remus and Newcastle where Newcastle is Evil and Demon poisons a Good
(swap Newcastle and Remus if you think Remus is Evil and Newcastle is Good; the mechanics are the same.)
Grundbegriff poisons Newcastle
theohall poisons Remus
Remus poisons Newcastle
Isgrimnur poisons Grundbegriff (or theohall)
Angel saves nobody

Outcome:
Grundbegriff dies, Remus dies, Newcastle dies.
Left alive: Semaj, Isgrimnur, theohallGood
Result: Good victory

Scenario B: poisoning Remus and Newcastle where Newcastle is Evil and Demon poisons/saves Newcastle
Grundbegriff poisons Newcastle
theohall poisons Remus
Remus poisons Newcastle
Isgrimnur saves Newcastle
Angel saves nobody

Outcome:
Remus dies
Left alive: Semaj, Isgrimnur, theohall, Grundbegriff, Newcastle
Result: Good victory

Scenario C: poisoning Remus and Newcastle where theohall is Evil and Demon poisons a Good
Grundbegriff poisons Newcastle
theohall poisons Remus
Remus poisons Newcastle
Isgrimnur poisons Grundbegriff
Angel saves nobody

Outcome:
Grundbegriff dies, Remus dies, Newcastle dies.
Left alive: Semaj, Isgrimnur, theohallEvil
Result: Evil victory (It would also be an Evil victory even if the Angel saved one of the Goods)

What this trio of examples shows is that the plan results in Good victory if and only if we target the Evil among the two we poison. If we manage to exclude the Evil from the set of poisoned, we lose.

I'm Good, and I think my actions and collaboration with Lassr make this clear.
Candidates for evil are Newcastle, Remus West, and theohall. We can put two under the gun according to the plan Remus describes, and we'll win as long as one of them is the Evil.

So who's the Evil?

(I think it would be a good idea for the Angel to put in an antidote for me, if his powers permit this. I still do not understand why the Angel is ineligible to negate the Demon's poisoning of his own pour. Scoop?)

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed May 27, 2009 10:54 am

Grundbegriff early in Round 1 wrote:It's not like you to think this sloppily, stessier, so I have to project that you're probably evil. It's also not like you to play so carelessly with our margin when you're evil and know that that'll make you look evil, so you must have an Ace up your sleeve that makes you not fear death.

I'm guessing you're the Demon. But I'm still willing to poison you to find out whether you're merely an Evil human.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed May 27, 2009 11:01 am

Semaj wrote:Grund: Claims to be the man who got stessier killed, when it fact it was Unagi. Lassr and Grund definitely ended up killing him in the end by dogpiling, But it was Unagi who started the train and claimed Stess was evil, before admitting to not poisoning and more or less ruining his chances of being the one to possibly lead up to remuside.

This is incorrect, Semaj. I noted stessier's oddity in the post quoted above, laid a trap for him by (a) wildly voting against you, and (b) conspicuously mentioning the Eagleton name. stessier took the bait and followed by vote. On page 6, I noted that it was interesting to see who had jumped at the chance to sow confusion and who hadn't.

stessier was in my sights long before Unagi was baking in the womb.

I think he's trusted enough ISG would kill him next, so he's the only one who gets a pass, by default

That's right. I get to live. The only question is who's most likely to be evil, and who's next most likely to be evil.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 27, 2009 11:01 am

Grundbegriff wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:He may have been ignorant of the poisoning state, but certainly wasn't unaware of Lassr's pouring.
Don't second-guess yourself. I'm trustworthy.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed May 27, 2009 11:02 am

Remus West wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:He may have been ignorant of the poisoning state, but certainly wasn't unaware of Lassr's pouring.
Don't second-guess yourself. I'm trustworthy.

I thought he was the Angel. Just as you thought Semaj was the Demon.

Detecting Specialness is easier than detecting Alignment!

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 27, 2009 11:06 am

Grundbegriff wrote:
Remus West wrote:Still no rumor for me.

Anyway, the idea I had goes like this:
Given Isgrimnur's ability to take a player out we have today only left. Thus instead of killing one person (which I assume would be me) we kill two. There will be two player left without Demonic activity and 1 left with. This does a few things for us.
1) allows us to choose the second player to be killed rather than Isgrimnur
2) by double poisoning both targets we are assured that both die.

It does not change the day's outcome but rather removes Isgrminur as a factor.
How does that stop Isgrimnur from poisoning the third?

Why would we care? 2 or 1 goods alive = win if they are the only mortals.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed May 27, 2009 11:07 am

Grundbegriff wrote:(I think it would be a good idea for the Angel to put in an antidote for me, if his powers permit this. I still do not understand why the Angel is ineligible to negate the Demon's poisoning of his own pour. Scoop?)

Mod Note: Semaj's statement regarding the Angel's power is incorrect. I have corrected Semaj in a PM. The rulez are correct.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Wed May 27, 2009 11:12 am

I was really hoping you wouldnt announce that until after the game was over... lol...

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed May 27, 2009 11:16 am

Heh.

OK, Mr. Angel. Could you please set aside the minutes before and after 10pm EST?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 27, 2009 11:29 am

I do not think Theohall would have poured for stessier round 1 if they were partners.
I doubt Newcastle would make that double pour play as an Evil but less than I doubt Theohall's evil-ness.
I can completely see Grundbegriff killing his partner as a method of gaining trust.
Unagi casts doubt on stessier on page 7.
Unagi pours a drink for him that Grund must assume is poisoned on page 10.
6 posts later Grund mentions possibly poisoning stessier or Newcastle multiple times but does not pour - This is the first time Grund mentions desire to poison stessier despite his claim that stessier had fallen into his trap during round 1.
4 posts later Lassr says he leans to poisoning stessier multiple times.
Only then does Grund pour for stessier.

After stessier death Unagi's first post is announcing he did not poison stessier and his second is saying he can see Grundbegriff's actions as evil.

Unagi wrote:btw - I could TOTALLY see Grund do this as a bad seed partner.

Grund has been milking that trust since the start of that round. Seriously, go back and read while not giving Grund credit for taking out stessier. Is there any chance Unagi gets poisoned yesterday?

I think we need to kill Grund today. I KNOW you will want to see me get killed today.

I place Newcastle and Theohall as less likely Evil than Grundbegriff so I think we should let them live this round.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 27, 2009 11:33 am

BTW, when reading through my thoughts on killing Grund and I keep in mind that if I am Evil following my plan costs me the game. If I am good then I would have no reason to mislead you with my thinking so you can be sure that I really feel this way about the situation.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed May 27, 2009 11:47 am

Remus West wrote:Unagi pours a drink for him that Grund must assume is poisoned on page 10.
6 posts later Grund mentions possibly poisoning stessier or Newcastle multiple times but does not pour - This is the first time Grund mentions desire to poison stessier despite his claim that stessier had fallen into his trap during round 1.

False. I mentioned poisoning stessier on page 3, in the context of the trap, which I decided to set as soon as I sensed he was playing with marked cards.

4 posts later Lassr says he leans to poisoning stessier multiple times.
Only then does Grund pour for stessier.

Of course. It would've been foolish to commit without having an ally who merited at least a bit of trust. Of course, once I felt ok about Lassr, I poured first and allowed him to reinforce his trust in me by pouring second.

It was one of our finest moments.

I think we need to kill Grund today. I KNOW you will want to see me get killed today. I place Newcastle and Theohall as less likely Evil than Grundbegriff so I think we should let them live this round.

What a joke.

Newcastle and Remus should be the targets. Honestly, if theohall is Evil and has managed to play this smoothly as evil, then he deserves a win. But I can't think of a single reason to doubt theohall, Unagi's worries notwithstanding.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed May 27, 2009 11:52 am

Remus West wrote:BTW, when reading through my thoughts on killing Grund and I keep in mind that if I am Evil following my plan costs me the game. If I am good then I would have no reason to mislead you with my thinking so you can be sure that I really feel this way about the situation.

Correct. Apart from Isgrimnur, there's only one EVil left. It seems intuitive that anyone arguing that we kill "Grundbegriff + Self" must be sincere.

The nefarious plan of Remus Beast:

On the other hand, if that Evil is as conniving as you, Remus, then he could be counting on Isgrimnur to save him from certain death by applying the Demonic antidote, with the result that

theohall and Newcastle poison Remus(Evil) and Grundbegriff(Good)
Remus throws a poison on theohall or Newcastle at the last minute
Demon saves Remus with infernal antidote

Result:
Isgrimnur and Semaj live
Remus lives
Only one of {Newcastle, theohall} lives.

Evil victory.

Nice try, Remus. All that's needed to pull it off is to ensure that Isgrimnur can tell you're the Evil so he'll know whom to save. And there's no better way to signal your Evil alignment than to go after the guy who conspicuously leads the Goods.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 27, 2009 11:59 am

I pour a shot of Jack for Grundbegriff

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:01 pm

Now then Grund, about that Remus pours last second idiocy. As though I was not aware I would have to be the first to pour in any plan of mine.

I assume you will pour for me. Newcastle and Theohall then split their pours between us one to each. No Demonic saves to worry about.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:08 pm

BTW, Grund, perhaps I should have said that was the first time during Round 2 you mentioned stessier at all. The link you posted was from page 3 at the start of round 1.

So you are telling us that you suspected stessier from that point but it was not until after Unagi poured for him and Lassr said he leaned towards pouring for him that you bothered to go after him yourself? Why not at least address the possibility before someone else pours for him? Unagi made the case for stessier all by himself before that point. You merely joked with stessier.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:16 pm

Remus West wrote: I pour a shot of Jack for Grundbegriff

That's surprising. Let's see what it might mean.

Suppose you've poisoned me. Suppose I poison you. If you're evil, then the Demon must raise you, but you're outnumbered by a good theohall and a good Newcastle. Evil loss.

Suppose you've poured for me but haven't poisoned me. The Demon poisons your pour. I die.
Meanwhile, you manage to avoid being poisoned by theohall and Newcastle, and persuade one of them to poison the other. You and one other remain. Evil victory. Of course, this only works for you if I refrain from poisoning you; If I poison you and you're evil, then whether you poisoned me or the Demon poisons me, Good wins because theohall and Newcastle survive.

A pour, once announced, is irrevocable. Is that right, Scoop? Remus cannot take that pour back?

Semaj: if Remus's pour is irrevocable, then I think you can guarantee our survival and victory by giving me antidote. Remus can only use his poison on his own pour, so....

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:21 pm

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:22 pm

Remus West wrote:Now then Grund, about that Remus pours last second idiocy. As though I was not aware I would have to be the first to pour in any plan of mine.

I assume you will pour for me. Newcastle and Theohall then split their pours between us one to each. No Demonic saves to worry about.

If you're Good, Remus, as I am, then look what happens.

Unless the Angel saves one of us, the Evil is one of {theohall, Newcastle} and that's an evil victory. Or the Evil one pours against the other at the last minute. Or the Evildoer outs himself and the Demon piles on.

Nice work, Remus, if you're Good. This'll go down in the annals as the first achievement to eclipse Remuscide in magnitude.

If you're Evil, Remus, then I think we win just by ensuring that you stay dead.

Scoop: If BubbaEvil has been poisoned by two Goods and then the Demon applies his single antidote, does it save BubbaEvil, or does the antidote only negate one of the two doses of poison?

Same question re BubbaGood and the Angel.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:23 pm

Let us be clear. I poisoned you. I'm expecting that you will poison me. I am asking that Theohall and Newcastle split their pours between the two of us and both use poison.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:24 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:If you're Good, Remus, as I am

I do not believe you are good. I believe I am placing the Good side in the best position to win that we can.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:26 pm

Remus West wrote:BTW, Grund, perhaps I should have said that was the first time during Round 2 you mentioned stessier at all. The link you posted was from page 3 at the start of round 1.

So you are telling us that you suspected stessier from that point but it was not until after Unagi poured for him and Lassr said he leaned towards pouring for him that you bothered to go after him yourself?

Of course.

Think what would have happened if I had simply gone after stessier without waiting for some sort of consensus to percolate. My assault on stessier woul'd've been perceived as either (a) my running him up the flagpole (a fake bandwagon) to see how people react, or (b) my leading an actual bandwagon, which might've backfired if others hadn't reached the same conclusion independent of my influence.

Why not at least address the possibility before someone else pours for him? Unagi made the case for stessier all by himself before that point. You merely joked with stessier.

Joking with stessier drew him in. How do you think he would've reacted if I had led a frontal assault? ("Oh, Grundbegriff is attacking me openly and aggressively from first dawn-- he must be my silent partner!")

Think about it.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:27 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:If you're Evil, Remus, then I think we win just by ensuring that you stay dead.[/.quote]Were I evil that would indeed be the case. I'm not. So what.

Scoop: If BubbaEvil has been poisoned by two Goods and then the Demon applies his single antidote, does it save BubbaEvil, or does the antidote only negate one of the two doses of poison?

Same question re BubbaGood and the Angel.

Scoop's rules are very clear that a single antidote counters a single poison. Anyone double poisoned at this point dies.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:28 pm

Remus West wrote:Let us be clear. I poisoned you. I'm expecting that you will poison me. I am asking that Theohall and Newcastle split their pours between the two of us and both use poison.

If you're good, and you did that, then my poisoning you will lose us the game. Semaj has a sufficient basis to understand that I'm Good, but no way to tell which of {Newcastle, theohall} is Good.

What a mess you've made.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:29 pm

Remus West wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:If you're Evil, Remus, then I think we win just by ensuring that you stay dead.[/.quote]Were I evil that would indeed be the case. I'm not. So what.

Scoop: If BubbaEvil has been poisoned by two Goods and then the Demon applies his single antidote, does it save BubbaEvil, or does the antidote only negate one of the two doses of poison?

Same question re BubbaGood and the Angel.

Scoop's rules are very clear that a single antidote counters a single poison. Anyone double poisoned at this point dies.

That's how I envisioned the poison and antidote when I proposed that they stack, but somewhere in the middle of the game, Scoop revealed that he thinks about them differently.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:31 pm

You joked with stessier round 1. The round in which you claim he fell into your trap. Then round 2 Unagi comes out saying he thinks stessier is Evil. You, however, having "trapped" stessier the previous round wait pages before even mentioning his name. You do not do anything regarding him until after someone else has poured for him. Then the following round you lead the charge to get the first player to pour stessier killed.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed May 27, 2009 12:37 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:
Unagi wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:Mod Note: If a player's drink is poisoned and the demon chooses to apply his anti-poison to that player's glass, then the condition is met and the anti-poison will not kill the player regardless if the Angel applies his anti-poison to it or not.

The demon's anti-poison kills a player ONLY if that player's glass of wine has not be poisoned AT ALL.
I think we should perhaps add, just in the event that it comes up:

The demon's anti-poison kills a player ONLY if that player's glass of wine has not be poisoned AT ALL and that player didn't self poison.
If the demon adds his anti-poison to a player's glass that contains a dose of poison the demon's anti-poison will remove that dose of poison. It doesn't matters where the poison comes from (self inflicted or not).

Unagi wrote:Also, I'm not sure if this has been covered, but I would think that if an unpoisoned player was given an antidote by both the Demon and the Angel, that the Demon's antidote would act as a poison, but then the Angel would negate it. Would you agree?
This is correct.

Scoop: What happens if, say, Remus is Evil and I poison Remus and theohall poisons Remus and then the Demon applies antidote to Remus. Does the single dose of infernal antidote save Remus from the two doses of poison, simply because the "antidote" comes after the poison?