STARSHIP R.SCOTT (WW Game) - Game Over.

[Austin]

Everyone is also very lucky stessier didn't play. He was PMing me during the game and pretty much nailed everyone's role except theohall as the symbiont.

Well it wasn't exactly difficult to pick out the Corps, and the corps had LL on Day one too.

sez the corp who didn't shoot LL.

I took out the one who was playing silent and floated in with ramblings when called on it. /shrug, someone has to actually kill silents at some point if poking them is going to mean anything.

[Remus West]

I had LL marked as the Symbiont most of the game. I did not consider the Engineers safe from conversion but had already reached the conclusion that the Convicts were screwed if Isgrimnur was not the AO so there was no reason to search through possible converts (although I did send Scoop a PM (well, wrote it, can not remember if I sent it) that said I thought Chaosraven was acting converted day 2). I felt from the way the voting was going on Grundbegriff that we were hosed and thought about pulling back mine but then it was to late. Shrug.

[theohall]

I forgot to explain why I self-locked.

I figured there was 1 alien left and if I locked down one of the unknowns from the Convicts, the Engineers would just unlock him anyway. It was also to create some confusion as to my role. So, I self-locked to give me 2 potential targets when unlocked. The plan would then be to lock down one of the original unknowns. Didn't figure on tru1cy and Sean playing the "won't unlock Convicts" game. Well played LL. And poorly played by myself.

[stessier]

Everyone is also very lucky stessier didn't play. He was PMing me during the game and pretty much nailed everyone's role except theohall as the symbiont.

Although after the last game, no one would have listened to me anyway.

But I had it easier than in the real game as I had confirmation when I found Chaos and Lagom and also confirmation when I said Lagom was the original. That made calling tru1cy as the Convert much easier.

[stessier]

The thing I like most about this ruleset is that we were more or less locked into a path that ran contrary to our best interests, but that this didn't have to happen.

You mean one set of humans were locked in, right? Because if either the Convicts or Corps had decided being human meant more than winning, they still could have helped the other humans win. The most irritating thing I kept reading was Remus saying the Corps were dooming the humans to death. They most certainly were not. They stated a position - that they would only be voting off people who could possibly be the OA - and forced the Convicts to choose taking out the common threat, or making sure they (the Convicts) had a chance to win. I believe the Convicts are the ones who doomed everyone by choosing...poorly. But really, what else would you expect from a bunch of Convicts?

[Lagom Lite]

I had LL marked as the Symbiont most of the game.

Awesome - I thought you were the symbiont! I wanted to get you lynched on Day 3 instead of Grundbegriff, that's why I hesitated for a second.

[Lagom Lite]

I just want to say that from a convicts pov, it wasn't a bad plan to lynch pr0ner and then Austin - if I had been a convert instead of the original it would be an entirely correct play. In fact, if you had managed to lynch me as the Original on Day 3, or I had been unsuccesful with my conversions, the cons would stand a good chance of winning. I don't think the cons played poorly at all, the only mistake was lynching Grund instead of me on Day 3. I was lucky with theohall too.

[stessier]

I just want to say that from a convicts pov, it wasn't a bad plan to lynch pr0ner and then Austin - if I had been a convert instead of the original it would be an entirely correct play. In fact, if you had managed to lynch me as the Original on Day 3, or I had been unsuccesful with my conversions, the cons would stand a good chance of winning. I don't think the cons played poorly at all, the only mistake was lynching Grund instead of me on Day 3. I was lucky with theohall too.

This is the first game I can remember where people ignored the Worst Case Scenario. They stuck their heads in the sand and hoped it wouldn't happen. I found it very frustrating to read (I'm human after all ).

[Remus West]

I just want to say that from a convicts pov, it wasn't a bad plan to lynch pr0ner and then Austin - if I had been a convert instead of the original it would be an entirely correct play. In fact, if you had managed to lynch me as the Original on Day 3, or I had been unsuccesful with my conversions, the cons would stand a good chance of winning. I don't think the cons played poorly at all, the only mistake was lynching Grund instead of me on Day 3. I was lucky with theohall too.

This is the first game I can remember where people ignored the Worst Case Scenario. They stuck their heads in the sand and hoped it wouldn't happen. I found it very frustrating to read (I'm human after all ).

It wasn't that I ignored the worst case scenario. It was that there was zilch I could do about it. There was zero incentive to go for a "human" victory rather than the Convict/Corp victory so I did the only thing that could possibly lead to the Convicts winning. I just chose poorly that last round.

[Chaosraven]

I believe I was nice enough to outline the Worst Case scenarios as we went along...

Should have heeded my warning

[Grundbegriff]

I don't think the cons played poorly at all, the only mistake was lynching Grund instead of me on Day 3.

In other words, it all boils down to Remus West.

[Grundbegriff]

I forgot to explain why I self-locked.

I figured there was 1 alien left and if I locked down one of the unknowns from the Convicts, the Engineers would just unlock him anyway.

The Engineers, as Corp members, had an incentive to reduce the number of voting Convicts (thus taking from the Convicts their main argument about why it's important to kill a Corp member). So why would they unlock him?

It was also to create some confusion as to my role.

Success!

[pr0ner]

I don't think the cons played poorly at all, the only mistake was lynching Grund instead of me on Day 3.

In other words, it all boils down to Remus West.

Remuscide, part 69?

[Mr Bubbles]

I blame Remus.

*cough cough*

[Remus West]

I forgot to explain why I self-locked.

I figured there was 1 alien left and if I locked down one of the unknowns from the Convicts, the Engineers would just unlock him anyway.

The Engineers, as Corp members, had an incentive to reduce the number of voting Convicts (thus taking from the Convicts their main argument about why it's important to kill a Corp member). So why would they unlock him?

That doesn't make sense. The Engineers should have had an incentive to increase the number of voting convicts to make us more likely to target our own. By reducing our voting numbers they left us in a position where we had to choose to either hand complete control to them or kill one of them. Thus Austin died. Had they unlocked Theohall I may still have pushed for you (likely) but the Corp may have pushed for me or LL so the outcome would have been different. Particularly if they had targeted LL obviously.

[theohall]

I forgot to explain why I self-locked.

I figured there was 1 alien left and if I locked down one of the unknowns from the Convicts, the Engineers would just unlock him anyway.

The Engineers, as Corp members, had an incentive to reduce the number of voting Convicts (thus taking from the Convicts their main argument about why it's important to kill a Corp member). So why would they unlock him?

Which is exactly where I figured wrong. Had I figured it that way, instead, I'd have locked down one of the unknowns - Bubbles, you, Remus, or LL. Bubbles and LL were the top two on my list had I gone that route and would've probably done a coin flip to decide.

[Scoop20906]

Yes, this game could have gone so many ways. I really can't wait to try it again and see what happens.

If anyone has any ideas, please post them here.

[Lagom Lite]

Yes, this game could have gone so many ways. I really can't wait to try it again and see what happens.

If anyone has any ideas, please post them here.

Alright, I'll brainstom. Don't take my ideas too seriously here.

I really liked the fact that my converts couldn't tell who their siblings were. It became a problem for me, and fun to try to find a way to communicate with them without outing us.

From the AO perspective, you get really paranoid with the symbiont. Maybe the symbiont should get some kind of boost vis-a-vis the enginners as they completely neutralize his only ability. Maybe the symbiont could be allowed to choose between freezing or producing a Medical report like the Hacker. That way people keep guessing who is the Hacker and is he really the symbiont, because no one got frozen last night... But then there would be two Hacker reports each night until the symbiont starts to freeze people. I don't know if this would unbalance it too much. Or maybe the Hacker could be given a multiple choice as well, or maybe the Hacker's medical reports are for his eyes only.

Or maybe just a single Engineer player... That would prevent mass outings of the Crew as well.

I have no complaints on how the AO converts. I was lucky, I could have bounced off at least two targets per night. The game likely begins with two active aliens so the alien threat is palpable and not easily eradicated.

[Grundbegriff]

I really liked the fact that my converts couldn't tell who their siblings were. It became a problem for me, and fun to try to find a way to communicate with them without outing us.

Good feature.

From the AO perspective, you get really paranoid with the symbiont. Maybe the symbiont should get some kind of boost vis-a-vis the enginners as they completely neutralize his only ability. Maybe the symbiont could be allowed to choose between freezing or producing a Medical report like the Hacker. That way people keep guessing who is the Hacker and is he really the symbiont, because no one got frozen last night...

Allowing the Symbiont to hide the truth about whether there's a living Hacker would definitely enhance the game. We wouldn't have felt so tracked if we hadn't had such deductive certainty about the teams' paths to victory. Plus, it makes sense story-wise that the Symbiont would be a strong character.

But then there would be two Hacker reports each night until the symbiont starts to freeze people.

Easily fixed: (a) The Hacker's report must always occur, but he has an option to keep it private once. (b) The Symbiont's report is voluntary, and he chooses whether the results go public (as the Hacker's usually must).

This would allow the Symbiont to emulate the Hacker, or at least to suggest that the Hacker is alive, regardless of whether the Hacker has been killed or converted. (In fact, it's one way the Symbiont could infer that the Hacker has been converted and is ripe for lockdown.)

I don't know if this would unbalance it too much. Or maybe the Hacker could be given a multiple choice as well, or maybe the Hacker's medical reports are for his eyes only.

Nuances adopted and tweaked above.

Or maybe just a single Engineer player... That would prevent mass outings of the Crew as well.

This would be a mistake. The fact that the Engineers can free one another is the one thing that prevents the Symbiont from negating their importance entirely. The Symbiont should have to work to get one of them airlocked or otherwise decommissioned.

I hope we'll play this one again sooner than six months out. I'm interested in seeing how it might go.

[Lagom Lite]

I hope we'll play this one again sooner than six months out. I'm interested in seeing how it might go.

Me too! And the more I think about it, the more it makes sense for the Symbiont to play a larger role. If either human team risks winning, the symb would "side" with the aliens, if the aliens risk winning, symb would "side" with the humans. This game the symbiont was a bit of a side-show, a rogue element. The main conflict was between the aliens and human (arguably, between the cons and the crew). By increasing symb's power slightly (thus decreasing the alien's power slightly) things could get really freaky as you get several power-bloques.

[theohall]

Concur on the suggestions made by LL and Grund's take on them. No way should there only be one Engineer. Having played the Symbiont and gotten Scoop's original take on it, I understood why the role was limited. Had I not self-locked, the outcome would have been significantly different, because LL would've been locked down on that particular course correction or the next one.

Love the idea of allowing the Symbiont to act like the Hacker or lock someone. It even fits into the Alien genre from the movies with him trying to hide stuff from the crew using the computer. Would make the earlier game play for the Symbiont much more interesting. Not sure what effect that might have on outing Crew members - whether it would accelerate the process or slow it down.

[Remus West]

One thing good about letting the Symbiont access the computer secretly is that it makes his lockdowns much more of an issue. Since he may know the player he locked is Alien the entire crew would need to worry about that aspect as well.

[theohall]

On Remus West's note and LL's idea:

New Symbiont abilities - may only choose one each course correction:
1) Lock down someone.
2) Generate Medical Report like the Hacker and make it public
3) Generate Medical Report like the Hacker and keep secret

The 3rd option would add to the confusion with no one being locked down along with the mashup of Hacker reports.

Although, this may be a bit over-powering based on what Scoop intended as the Symbiont's role.

From Scoop irt Symbiont's role:

know I have given you a difficult winning condition to meet but I envision you are the fly in the ointment. You are there to make things difficult for each side. Have some fun with it. GOOD LUCK!

[Scoop20906]

Alot of good suggestions. I will take a look at them in the next version. I like the idea about the symbiont but theohall is correct that I don't want to overpower him too much. As I said, I want him to be a distraction and not a major force that forces the other players to deal with him. I want to pit the three sides against each other while allowing the symboint to aid who he sees fit. Now there is a thought ....

Grund, I'm really happy you and LL are looking forward to another installment. I think I will be ready to moderate this again following Deep Cover and the Dark Knight.