Octopus Overlords

naednek wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 2:33 am Dog fighting in space is pretty challenging and I can't seem to stay alive. I'm very familiar with energy management from the good old star wars days of video gaming. I just don't know if I'm too low to be fighting or just suck. I tend to not suck at similar space sims with the same mechanics

There is a loading screen tip telling you that speed impacts maneuverability. This impact is meaningful, like critically so. I am level 14 and still using the first ship unmodified, mostly because I don't want to waste money upgrading it and can't decide what to replace it with. It's a pretty decent ship.

Played a couple more hours last night. Visited the Lodge. Got mildly interested in the main quest and its cast of characters. Wandered around Atlantis. Did a couple Activities and picked up some Missions from the Constellation board and the Atlantis city board. Delivered some parts to a nearby planet. Tried a survey mission but got totally sidetracked when I found a research station of Zeno botanists who needed help with some Crimson Fleet pirates giving them a hard time. Tried to stealth into the pirate base but bungled it and ended up in a big gunfight. Got my ass handed to me several times by some big robot dogs. Figured out I could hack the computer system and turn the robot dogs on their pirate masters (and some turrets, too). Returned to my botanist friends and received ample thanks and tangible rewards.

All in all, it was a good night. This game is not perfect, definitely. But it’s pretty close to what I expected/hoped for. If you are looking for No Man’s Skyrim, this really does seem to be it. The first hours are not gripping, but if you want Skyrim in space, I think it’s there for you if you stick with it.

I played last night for a couple hours and DEFINITELY got the "what's over the next hill" vibe. On that first planet after I took out the pirates, I stood on top of the building and saw a glint in the morning light. Went on a walkabout and found a huge, golden domed platform with a giant weapon mounted on top. Took an elevator ride to the top and took out an entire gang of spacers, got some ridiculous loot, them headed out. On the way back to my ship, I found a cave and three more outposts/abandoned labs/POI's.

I love it, it's exactly what I was wanting, and now I'm gonna go play some more until my Frogs start up at 11!

2 other things:

(1) If you feel like the fast travel is breaking immersion, you can don’t have to fully use it. By that I mean, if you are on a planet and want to go to BBC another place you’ve explored, yes, you can just bring up the star map and click on the new place and show up there. I find that convenient. But you don’t have to do that. You can run back to your ship, climb up the ladder, walk to the cockpit, sit down, take off, pull up the star map, plot your course, shift power to the grav drive and engage. That second method will serve up a couple load screens but also some cut scenes of taking off from the planet and kicking in the grav drives that makes it feel a little more like “realistic” space travel and not teleportation, if that’s what you’re looking for.

(2) What’s the deal with enemy respawn? I did get a little frustrated with my pirate encounter when, after killing the boss (mission objective), it seemed like I was unable to wipe out all the pirates. No matter how many I killed, it felt like more showed up. Are they respawning really quickly, or do pirates just breed like rabbits???

Kurth wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 10:02 am 2 other things:

(1) If you feel like the fast travel is breaking immersion, you can don’t have to fully use it. By that I mean, if you are on a planet and want to go to BBC another place you’ve explored, yes, you can just bring up the star map and click on the new place and show up there. I find that convenient. But you don’t have to do that. You can run back to your ship, climb up the ladder, walk to the cockpit, sit down, take off, pull up the star map, plot your course, shift power to the grav drive and engage. That second method will serve up a couple load screens but also some cut scenes of taking off from the planet and kicking in the grav drives that makes it feel a little more like “realistic” space travel and not teleportation, if that’s what you’re looking for.

I've been doing something along the lines and it does make me happier. It seems like the equivalent of when I'd play an Elder Scrolls game and make myself pinky swear I would generally take the long way with my horse instead of fast traveling.

(2) What’s the deal with enemy respawn? I did get a little frustrated with my pirate encounter when, after killing the boss (mission objective), it seemed like I was unable to wipe out all the pirates. No matter how many I killed, it felt like more showed up. Are they respawning really quickly, or do pirates just breed like rabbits???

Is it possible there were enemies both outdoors and indoors in your mission? I had one encounter where I ran past the outside pirate guards to immediately enter the building, but when I started fighting indoors I kept having exterior guards popping into existence inside at the front door.

Yeah, that’s pretty much how it went down. When my stealth approach failed, for hilarious reasons of my own making, I blitzed passed the outdoor enemies, through the airlock and took out the pirates and the leader objective inside. I don’t think the inside enemies respawned, but it felt like the outdoor pirates were a bottomless pit.

Max Peck wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:28 am It's a $70 game, with a $35 expansion

Has that price been confirmed yet, or are you just going off of the price of the premium upgrade?

Max Peck wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 9:08 am It appears that there is no respec (I'm sure someone will address that with a mod) but since there is no level cap there doesn't really need to be one. Instead of retconning the character into a new build, you can simply put new skill points into new skills.

Disclaimer: I'm basing this on the last six games from Bethesda - I don't know how much remains true in Starfield, but from what I've seen, it's probably mostly accurate.

There was no respec in any of their other games, either, and the ways of working around that (including mods) tend to be messy and buggy.

The game isn't designed with a mechanism to remove a perk once you've had it. It can be done with console commands (or via a mod), but the process isn't all that simple. Say you have a perk that adds some effect to your character (we'll call it, "I Love You, You Love Me", and it makes enemies within 10 feet of you stop fighting and hug.) The way they normally do it is that when you get the perk, it also adds and effect to your character (sort of like a spell/enchantment effect) that causes the enemy behavior. The perk grants the effect, and the game checks for the effect, not the perk. So you use a console or the mod to remove the perk - but so leaves the effects of the perk in place. Now you use your method and add a different perk in - and you've got both perks active.

There are other issues, too, as there are some things that are set at the end of character creation (like certain effects starting or certain things being set to certain numbers), and it's very easy to accidentally trigger that, resulting in resetting some hidden variables to their default level 1 value.

The safest thing is usually to do the changes one by one with the console, but only after the research has been done as to exactly what effects are tied to what, so that you can manually adjust everything. In other words:

Console:
~Command to remove I Love You, You Love Me perk
~Command to remove iHugitout effect
~Command to add You're a Mean One perk

But first you have to wait until someone has figured out and listed all of the commands.

In the past, there was no single command to reset everything. There was showracemenu which restarted the character creation process (so you could adjust your look), and there were commands to set stats to specific numbers (set strength to 45), to modify a stat (modify strength by +10 or -10), to add or remove an effect (add the hugging enemies effect), and to add or remove a perk.

What was really fun was changing things in Morrowind and Oblivion when they still have the uses of each skill per level affecting how much each stat was raised, and two different types of skills that each counted differently. Changing anything in those games and ending up with a character that was the same as if they'd leveled there required recalculating all of the stats from scratch, level by level, something like:

Level 2 -

Major skills: 4 points of Marksman, 5 points of sneak, 1 point of Light Armor
Minor skills: 1 point of Acrobatics, 3 points of Athletics, 3 points of Speechcraft, 2 points of Blade
Level up: Agility +4, Speed +3, Luck +1

Level 3 -

Major skills...

It was a huge pain in the ass.

Kurth wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 10:02 am 2 other things:

(1) If you feel like the fast travel is breaking immersion, you can don’t have to fully use it. By that I mean, if you are on a planet and want to go to BBC another place you’ve explored, yes, you can just bring up the star map and click on the new place and show up there. I find that convenient. But you don’t have to do that. You can run back to your ship, climb up the ladder, walk to the cockpit, sit down, take off, pull up the star map, plot your course, shift power to the grav drive and engage. That second method will serve up a couple load screens but also some cut scenes of taking off from the planet and kicking in the grav drives that makes it feel a little more like “realistic” space travel and not teleportation, if that’s what you’re looking for/

With most of the Fallout/Elder Scrolls games I did something similar - I allowed myself to fast travel whenever I wanted, but I would only allow myself to fast travel to cities/settlements. If I wanted to get to a particular POI, I'd fast travel to the nearest city and hoof it. It was a good compromise between walking down the same roads over and over and just appearing everywhere. If I wanted to take it further in a particular playthrough, I'd only let myself travel from city to city - meaning I'd have to walk back as well, but didn't have to keep running across the continent.

For Skyrim, I think I spent the first ~30 hours of my play time walking the Earth like Caine - meet people and get into adventures with no fast travel at all. But after I started working on the main story and getting quests, I'd fast travel all over the map. I think I did the same with Fallout 4, in between helping settlements.

Blackhawk wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:00 pm

Max Peck wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:28 am It's a $70 game, with a $35 expansion

Has that price been confirmed yet, or are you just going off of the price of the premium upgrade?

I just did a couple of quick google searches for the price of the base game in USD ($69.99) and for the price of the Premium upgrade ($34.99), which is not a thing on Steam but is a thing if you're getting the base game on Game Pass. It's possible that they will adjust the price of the standalone DLC when they release it, but if it's a substantial expansion, along the lines of what they did for Skyrim, then 50% of the cost of the base game seems about right (in terms of my expectations of the price -- whether it's "right" in terms of value-for-money is inherently subjective and left as an exercise for the reader). At any rate, in terms of what is currently available for purchase, those are the prices we have.

Both of the big Skyrim DLCs were $20, and the two big FO4 DLCs were $20 and $25, all on $60 games. $30 wouldn't be shocking (and the price difference on Steam is $30.) Bethesda likes to charge as much as they possibly can, but MS is more likely to keep it from getting too high - they known the value of numbers of sales balanced against the price per sale.

So, yeah - that does change the math a little. Buying the game and then buying the DLC down the line will likely cost about the same as buying the premium version now and getting the DLC for free.

Helpful tips.

Hyena wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 9:53 am I played last night for a couple hours and DEFINITELY got the "what's over the next hill" vibe. On that first planet after I took out the pirates, I stood on top of the building and saw a glint in the morning light. Went on a walkabout and found a huge, golden domed platform with a giant weapon mounted on top. Took an elevator ride to the top and took out an entire gang of spacers, got some ridiculous loot, them headed out. On the way back to my ship, I found a cave and three more outposts/abandoned labs/POI's.

I love it, it's exactly what I was wanting, and now I'm gonna go play some more until my Frogs start up at 11!

Damn, wish I had thought about doing that . Sounds really cool.

Still haven't been able to play...
For the record, I am no longer interested in playing Cities 2 on day one so the release gods have no reason to get me sick then ok?

Anyway I saw an article about game plus which puts a curve in my plan do just download a mod to allow me to start with game plus.
Apparently there is a choice right at the beginning that depending on what you choose changes the story path.
So, normal story, you might get quest453.
Game plus choice means that never happens at all.
So if i want to see all the story I have to play through twice.
Not sure I'll be up to that even if the choice means I meet a beautiful alien in the beginning, fall in love, and spend the rest of the game raising alien children to take over the universes.
At least that's my guess as to the new story.

Glad I have Starfield to play, since my weekend of watching F1 from Italy has hit a snag. My provider Spectrum is having a hissy-fit with Disney and so they don't have access to any Disney channels, including the ESPN ones

I believe that we need a variant of Old Man Murray's Start To Crate metric that is specific to Bethesda games: something like Start To Dragon maybe. While a higher Start to Crate is better, a lower Start to Dragon would be superior, given that people seem to prefer game openings that blow them away right off the bat.

Anyway, here's Wonderwall an article about how everyone thinks the opening hours of the game are the worst part of the game.

Starfield players agree that its first dozen hours are its weakest: 'OK, 12 hours in, and I love it'

The moment at the start of Fallout 3 when you step out into the wasteland blew some minds back in 2008, but Starfield's intro isn't quite having the same effect. The short narrative sequence that casts you as a miner isn't quite as captivating as growing up in a Vault, and the simplified space travel and somewhat dull first hours that follow has players wrestling with one of Bethesda's most divisive opening acts yet.

The game opens with a surprisingly short intro sequence where your character's mining job is interrupted by a mysterious artifact and a band of space pirates. It all happens so fast that there's barely any time to express the kind of character you want to play as. Many players agree that Starfield's intro falls flat, and veers too far into absurdity with how quickly your character becomes a killing machine regardless of their choices.

"In 30 minutes I've just been given a ship and told to go to [Constellation's] headquarters," TankMain576 wrote in a Reddit post about Starfield's intro. "But then as soon as I'm in orbit it's, 'Oh no, you're going to go alone to exterminate an ENTIRE BASE of pirates before we get to looking at the thing in your head.' Sir, excuse me? I'm a miner."

That really might be part of my issue. The idea that I'd need to play for 12+ hours for it to change? That seems...excessive.

Smoove_B wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 3:09 pm That really might be part of my issue. The idea that I'd need to play for 12+ hours for it to change? That seems...excessive.

Not really, I'm thinking of Red Dead Redemption 2, it seemed to take forever before I got into the meat of the story.

Anyway, I find I'm happy right now going from mission to mission. And at the ten hour mark I'm finally starting the second main mission, after finishing the first after about two hours. I've just modified my first weapon and had a permanent crew member assigned, which is Vasco, who I thought was already my permanent companion, but apparently not

jztemple2 wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 3:14 pm Not really, I'm thinking of Red Dead Redemption 2, it seemed to take forever before I got into the meat of the story.

And yet I couldn't stop playing RDR2. Maybe it's a matter of scope and how they ease you into the mechanics and overall place within the gaming world. As pointed out in the article above, things in Starfield go from zero to infinity and beyond in like 30 minutes.

I'm reminded of No Man's Sky and how that started- stranded on a planet and forced to figure out the basics before you're given more freedom to explore.

Again, maybe that's not what everyone wants but I'm just wondering if it's part of my issues.

coopasonic wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 9:31 am

naednek wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 2:33 am Dog fighting in space is pretty challenging and I can't seem to stay alive. I'm very familiar with energy management from the good old star wars days of video gaming. I just don't know if I'm too low to be fighting or just suck. I tend to not suck at similar space sims with the same mechanics

There is a loading screen tip telling you that speed impacts maneuverability. This impact is meaningful, like critically so. I am level 14 and still using the first ship unmodified, mostly because I don't want to waste money upgrading it and can't decide what to replace it with. It's a pretty decent ship.

If you end up in a space dogfight it's important to understand the situation. I was in a mission that dropped me out of warp space near a friendly who was being attacked by three enemy pirates. After dying three times I decided to get smart. On the next try I put all energy I could into engines and flew quickly away from the fight. I then figured out that the friendly wasn't in any danger of being destroyed, no doubt due to the mission script. So I moved all the energy I could into weapons and moved back towards the fight, hitting the lock on button over and over till I started to get a lock on one of them (I figured the closest one).

I fired to get its attention and as it zoomed towards me I hit it with a full alpha strike. It went past me and I followed and destroyed it, then swung back to the fight and drew off the second guy. Ditto for the third. By the way, keyboard and mouse work just find for the space fights.

Minor spoiler, not specifically mission related, triggered by an activity that leads to a certain location in New Atlantis

Hyena wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 9:53 am I played last night for a couple hours and DEFINITELY got the "what's over the next hill" vibe. On that first planet after I took out the pirates, I stood on top of the building and saw a glint in the morning light. Went on a walkabout and found a huge, golden domed platform with a giant weapon mounted on top. Took an elevator ride to the top and took out an entire gang of spacers, got some ridiculous loot, them headed out. On the way back to my ship, I found a cave and three more outposts/abandoned labs/POI's.

I love it, it's exactly what I was wanting, and now I'm gonna go play some more until my Frogs start up at 11!

This and other things I have seen would say that there is exploration and things to find as you venture out, in contradiction to what some have said. I have read that you should be sure to use your scanner when you land and other POI will be revealed beyond just the one you may be landing for due to a mission/quest.

Thanks for that sheet!

Smoove_B wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 3:09 pm That really might be part of my issue. The idea that I'd need to play for 12+ hours for it to change? That seems...excessive.

So I've uhhh played for 22 hours and I think I've seen what people are seeing as the change after 12 hours (it was 17 hours for me, but I can get distracted) and, it's interesting in story terms but has no real gameplay impact. Curiosity piqued though.... and yeah 5 hours later my curiosity still hasn't been satisfied but that's because I am mainly doing a HUGE sidequest.

I am enjoying the game as it is though. Yeah, tech-wise it's kind of trash, but the gameplay is still very engaging for me. One day I might even create an outpost.

Oh I also still have the activity to check out my ship's inventory. I've been using the ship's inventory the entire time, no idea why that won't go away.

Felt a little better and started messing with ship builder.
Overall I like it but it seems like it has sime big issues...or I'm missing something...
Parts don't seem to want to snap where I want even if they have the glowing snap area.
This seems to be especially bad when trying to get parts to snap when they are 3 or more levels high. I thought there might be a way to raise a part higher but I couldn't find it.
Anyone else have this issue or did I miss something?

coopasonic wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 5:50 pm Oh I also still have the activity to check out my ship's inventory. I've been using the ship's inventory the entire time, no idea why that won't go away.

With that activity selected you have to go to a little control panel on the inside left side near the front of the ship. It is at about eye height. Scroll through the list, that seemed to trigger mission accomplishment for me.

Steam says I'm at 13.4 hours, but I think my save game is at about 12 hours of the campaign. I've been having fun with the game since the beginning, I'm not sure what's magical about that twelve hour mark. Anyway, I completed that first main mission about two hours in and as I said, just started the second main mission at about the ten hour mark, but got immediately sidetracked with an activity that turned into a faction mission after I joined UC Vanguard, which was very cool (minor spoiler regarding activities upon asking to join UC Vanguard)
And then I went off in a faction mission which took me to an interesting locations where I got to... well, that's a big spoiler so I won't even put it here, even in tags.

Anyway, I haven't gone searching on a planet for resources or built an outpost or scanned to find flora or fauna. And with any luck I'll never have to before I get through this game

jztemple2 wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 3:58 pm Minor spoiler, not specifically mission related, triggered by an activity that leads to a certain location in New Atlantis

Spoiler:

I just found the Vanguard Orientation Hall Museum...

YA That was well done. I will admit, it was long in the tooth, so I think I covered half of it.

Ok, now have about 4 hours in.

I left the starting area and made my way to the planet you've been pointed at. I completely skipped the main story prompts and just spent about 2 hours roaming around that planet, scanning things and exploring. Definitely more interesting than the first hour, to say the least. I'll be curious to see how much of what I found will repeat as I do similar things elsewhere, but the *stuff* that appeared was definitely keeping me hooked.

I think my favorite moment so far is hitting a new level at the same time I was notified I have a lung disease.

OK, I'm a bit surprised. I just was in a dialogue with a character and a choice I made lowered the regard that Sarah has towards me. Sarah is currently my companion, although not really by choice. I wonder what happens if I keep doing things that lower her regard for me. Does she quit? Shoot me? Shoot me then quit? Intriguing.

Is Sarah a panda?

If so, then the order of operations would be, eat first, then shoot you, then leave.

Brian wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 10:48 pm Is Sarah a panda?

If so, then the order of operations would be, eat first, then shoot you, then leave.

Another possibly dumb question. I'm on Mars (suck it, Elon!) and I'm leaving the main base and my objective is 800 meters away. Apparently, the only option is to go that distance on foot? I tried to do what I could do in No Mans Sky, tootle along in my ship, but as soon as I lifted off I was in orbit and when I tried to select the object location as my destination it just said the location was "undiscovered". So I just have to walk?

jztemple2 wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 11:00 pm

Brian wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 10:48 pm Is Sarah a panda?

If so, then the order of operations would be, eat first, then shoot you, then leave.

Another possibly dumb question. I'm on Mars (suck it, Elon!) and I'm leaving the main base and my objective is 800 meters away. Apparently, the only option is to go that distance on foot? I tried to do what I could do in No Mans Sky, tootle along in my ship, but as soon as I lifted off I was in orbit and when I tried to select the object location as my destination it just said the location was "undiscovered". So I just have to walk?

You’re further along than I am, but I think that’s right from what I’ve read. You are being forced there to do that journey on foot.

That's the way it worked in all of the recent Fallout/Elder Scrolls games. You had to visit a location once to fast travel there later.

To be honest, though, I've often had more fun on those hikes than I had at the destination.

Blackhawk wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 11:17 pm That's the way it worked in all of the recent Fallout/Elder Scrolls games. You had to visit a location once to fast travel there later.

To be honest, though, I've often had more fun on those hikes than I had at the destination.

Well, that wasn't the case here. It's on Mars and the hike only took a few minutes but was rather boring. However, once at the location... just another "wow" mission and it took a couple of hours to complete; really this was only part of the full mission. Had several combat sessions and combat in Starfield works really well. And the enemy is pretty smart at using cover. I'm by long habit a distance shooter so I'd already modified a couple of weapons for that. I have a shotgun but that's more for being surprised by weird creatures popping out of cabinets .

This was a faction mission and it was part of an overall arc which has been very interesting. I've gone to several planets for it and seen all sorts of things. Scary things and bureaucratic things . At one point I had the option to go to some nearby location and fight some Spacers to get something, or do some B&E instead . I choose the latter

I'm getting really good at lockpicking. I used the information I got from that video linked above and have worked out my own method using scratch paper and some notations that now works for me every time. I'm up to Advanced Locks and I hope to reach Expert level soon.

Steam says I'm up to 15.7 hours and I'm still having a blast

jztemple2 wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 10:19 pm OK, I'm a bit surprised. I just was in a dialogue with a character and a choice I made lowered the regard that Sarah has towards me. Sarah is currently my companion, although not really by choice. I wonder what happens if I keep doing things that lower her regard for me. Does she quit? Shoot me? Shoot me then quit? Intriguing.

Companions will leave you if you do too much they don’t like.

Any tips on surveying planets? I’m on a mission/activity where I have to find a planet with a certain trait in the Sirius system. I’ve been landing on planets and surveying, but I can’t seem to complete the survey. I get it to 88% or thereabouts, but I can’t seem to get it to 100. Advice?

Kurth wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2023 12:28 pm Any tips on surveying planets? I’m on a mission/activity where I have to find a planet with a certain trait in the Sirius system. I’ve been landing on planets and surveying, but I can’t seem to complete the survey. I get it to 88% or thereabouts, but I can’t seem to get it to 100. Advice?

When you bring up your scanner, in the bottom left it should tell you how much you've completed different categories of scans, like Flora (3/5), Fauna (2/20). Maybe that'll point you toward what's missing?

Kurth wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2023 12:28 pm Any tips on surveying planets? I’m on a mission/activity where I have to find a planet with a certain trait in the Sirius system. I’ve been landing on planets and surveying, but I can’t seem to complete the survey. I get it to 88% or thereabouts, but I can’t seem to get it to 100. Advice?

Starfield: A Complete Guide to Surveying Planets

During a survey, players are tasked with using their hand scanner to collect data on a planet's fauna, flora, resources, and locations. A planet is considered fully surveyed once each category's data has been collected. For flora and fauna, this requires multiple scans of the same species. Most planets have all four categories to collect data for, but some planets and nearly all moons only have resources to scan.

Kurth wrote: Sun Sep 03, 2023 12:28 pm Any tips on surveying planets? I’m on a mission/activity where I have to find a planet with a certain trait in the Sirius system. I’ve been landing on planets and surveying, but I can’t seem to complete the survey. I get it to 88% or thereabouts, but I can’t seem to get it to 100. Advice?

See the article Where to sell survey data in Starfield, which also has info on how to do a survey. How to do a survey is in the spoiler tags below.