Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

[stessier]

The interesting bit from that interview is that 70% of Ford's customers are Apple customers. Which makes sense. iPhones are about 55% of the US smartphone market, and new car buyers are probably a bit more likely to be iPhone users than the population as a whole.

https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/ ... ey-carplay

Explains why I have never, and likely never will, buy a Ford. Maybe they would have more customers if they embraced the other side.

The three Fords I've had work just fine with Android Auto as well.

We have no trouble using Android Auto in our Mach E.

[Freyland]

Another vote for the Mach-e. I have no comparison for you, but AA does the job.

[Daehawk]

Dont charge your EVs inside. Lessons learned.

[Zaxxon]

FUD. If you're concerned about this, definitely also park your combustion vehicles outside.

[Fireball]

The interesting bit from that interview is that 70% of Ford's customers are Apple customers. Which makes sense. iPhones are about 55% of the US smartphone market, and new car buyers are probably a bit more likely to be iPhone users than the population as a whole.

https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/ ... ey-carplay

Explains why I have never, and likely never will, buy a Ford. Maybe they would have more customers if they embraced the other side.

What in the world makes you think that Ford's cars don't work with Android Auto?

[Unagi]

The interesting bit from that interview is that 70% of Ford's customers are Apple customers. Which makes sense. iPhones are about 55% of the US smartphone market, and new car buyers are probably a bit more likely to be iPhone users than the population as a whole.

https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/ ... ey-carplay

Explains why I have never, and likely never will, buy a Ford. Maybe they would have more customers if they embraced the other side.

What in the world makes you think that Ford's cars don't work with Android Auto?

Jeff V

[Jeff V]

The interesting bit from that interview is that 70% of Ford's customers are Apple customers. Which makes sense. iPhones are about 55% of the US smartphone market, and new car buyers are probably a bit more likely to be iPhone users than the population as a whole.

https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/ ... ey-carplay

Explains why I have never, and likely never will, buy a Ford. Maybe they would have more customers if they embraced the other side.

What in the world makes you think that Ford's cars don't work with Android Auto?

Your quote suggesting they are all about Apple? Why else specify one type of phone and not the other?

Still won't buy a Ford.

[RunningMn9]

Your quote suggesting they are all about Apple? Why else specify one type of phone and not the other?

Still won't buy a Ford.

So you believed Ford only supported Apple, and that explained why would never buy a Ford. Then you found out that was false…but you still wouldn’t buy a Ford? So maybe your Ford beef isn’t explained why what secondary software they support on the head unit?

[pr0ner]

Your quote suggesting they are all about Apple? Why else specify one type of phone and not the other?

Still won't buy a Ford.

So you believed Ford only supported Apple, and that explained why would never buy a Ford. Then you found out that was false…but you still wouldn’t buy a Ford? So maybe your Ford beef isn’t explained why what secondary software they support on the head unit?

This is why there's a fine line sometimes between JeffV's schtick posting and JeffV's utter cluelessness about things.

[Zaxxon]

[Formix]

As the recent purchaser of an Ioniq 6, that news comforts me. I have a trip next week from the mountains of NC, to the piedmont, down to Charlotte, and back. I spent about half an hour plotting it all out, scheduling two trips to (oddly enough) the same Electrify America stop, just to see if I could actually make all this happen successfully.

[Pyperkub]

Tire technology catching up:

EVs have slightly different tire requirements from vehicles with more traditional powertrains. The near-instant torque of an electric motor and the slightly higher curb weight both need to be taken into consideration, both for acceleration and deceleration. The absence of an internal combustion engine and transmission makes all a car's other noises much more obvious, so minimizing tire roar is also a priority for EV-specific applications.

A more durable tire shouldn't just mean more time between tire changes. Recent studies have shown an alarming link between tire particulate pollution and large fish deaths in the Pacific Northwest, and critics of EVs have seized on this link as a talking point against the adoption of electric cars on the grounds of that slightly higher curb weight. And as for being more durable, these tires should last several years—Bridgestone is warrantying them for 50,000 miles. The trick is a new polymer technology, although the tire maker was not more forthcoming about the exact nature of its new secret sauce, called "PeakLife."

[Zaxxon]

Sweet. Tires have been a definite weak point for EVs.

[Zaxxon]

Finally, the first domino drops to move away from CCS to Tesla's way-better charge port in the US.

Current Ford BEVs to gain access to Tesla's Supercharger network via an adapter next year, Ford next-gen BEVs to come with Tesla's charge port.

Tangent: I used Electrify America today for the first 'real' road-tripping charge today. Worked fine but it did drive home how much worse the experience is with that godawful plug and the need to plug in, then open an app, pick the charge stall I plugged into, and wait for authorization.

[stessier]

Shame Tesla hasn't implemented Plug-and-pay for you on the EA network like Ford has for me. I'm sure they'll catch up with best practices at some point.

[gbasden]

Finally, the first domino drops to move away from CCS to Tesla's way-better charge port in the US.

Why technically is Tesla's charge port better than CCS? Does it handle power better? I haven't noticed any CCS plug related issues in the year I've been using it.

[malchior]

Just look at it.

But seriously, the CCS (Combined Charging System) has redundant pins on it that increase the cost/complexity/weight of it. They are notoriously finicky and prone to mis-alignment because they are heavy/overlarge especially when the charging cable is liquid cooled which makes it even heavier. Some Chevy's even had issues with the connectors sagging from the weight.

The "Combined" in CCS came from an expansion on an existing connector that facilitated 1-phase AC charging (over 5 pins - now at the top of the CCS connector). DC fast charging was added on as the 2 pins at the bottom of the CCS connector. Since it was backwards compatible with the original plug it increased greatly in size. The Tesla system from the ground up was designed for either use case and uses the same pins for AC/DC. It also has an orientation/layout that manifested in a much smaller connector. It's lighter, requires less parts, functions more or less just as well as the CCS and consequently costs less and is more reliable. It comes at the cost of requiring additional sensing/switching logic on the car to understand if it is receiving AC or DC power.

[Zaxxon]

What malchior said, mostly. It's also much, much easier to plug in, and to return to the holster; there's no separate AC/DC footprint, either. And really as silly as it probably sounds, it's an accessibility issue. You can easily maneuver and plug the Tesla style in with one hand, without looking at the port any closer than 'where is the port?'. CCS requires two hands to get the angle right, along with much more strength and a perfect line-up of the angle as you start to plug in.

Stessier, your quip would have more heft if Ford hadn't just ditched CCS.

[Zaxxon]

This image drives home the size difference.

[Zaxxon]

[gbasden]

What malchior said, mostly. It's also much, much easier to plug in, and to return to the holster; there's no separate AC/DC footprint, either. And really as silly as it probably sounds, it's an accessibility issue. You can easily maneuver and plug the Tesla style in with one hand, without looking at the port any closer than 'where is the port?'. CCS requires two hands to get the angle right, along with much more strength and a perfect line-up of the angle as you start to plug in.

Stessier, your quip would have more heft if Ford hadn't just ditched CCS.

Huh. I seriously haven't noticed any issues with mine. But if it's a technically better standard, then I great, I suppose.

[Formix]

If it ever actually happens, my Aptera will have NACS as well. They were actually the first to make the deal with Tesla to use their standard.

[Zaxxon]

Tangent: I used Electrify America today for the first 'real' road-tripping charge today. Worked fine but it did drive home how much worse the experience is with that godawful plug and the need to plug in, then open an app, pick the charge stall I plugged into, and wait for authorization.

One more tip for EA: I dislike their choice to mark stations within the app simply as available or unavailable. By not differentiating between 'in use' and 'out of service,' they do their users a disservice. Especially when most of their location have only 4 plugs, seeing 2 of them as unavailable generates anxiety, where seeing those same 2 as 'in use' would instead instill confidence that the location is in good shape.

Later in this week's trip I had a totally organic use of a CCS DCFC unit. We stayed in boofoo, Nebraska Tuesday night on our way home. I hadn't bothered looking up local charging options because 1) we didn't really need it as there was a Supercharger ~25 miles further down the road that we could hit on our way out the next morning, and 2) boofoo, Nebraska.

As we were nearing the Airbnb that night, not one block away I see a lit-up Chargepoint unit. Looked it up and it's a 50 kW L3 station installed in 2020 using Nebraska lottery funding. Whaddya know? So the next morning I plugged the car in before my run and picked it up as we were getting ready to pack up. In 100 minutes it took the X from 25% to 97%. Way too slow for on-the-road charging, and only one plug means even were it suitable, it'd be non-rely-upon-able, but it was perfect in this instance. Cost us virtually no time, and eliminated a charging stop on the road that day. Was cheap, too--$7 and change for ~65 kWh.



We also used a dryer outlet overnight on our way out, and a 20A 120V outlet at the hotel where we spent the bulk of our trip. I will say that the north woods of MN are still a charging desert, with no L3 stations of any persuasion for the last ~100 miles northward of our trip. Someone really needs to get something installed near Voyageurs National Park.



Road trip summary:
Miles traveled: 2,505.5
kWh used: 988.23
Wh/mi: 394 (all-in: car reported 367 for motive use)

Juice sources:
Home charging: 81 kWh
Travel charges (while stopped): 187 kWh
Supercharges/EA charge: 720 kWh
Percentage of charge attained while car was idle: 27%
Percentage of charge attained while on the road: 73%
Time charging on the road: 7.1 hours
Average time stopped: 26.6 minutes (low 4 min, high 51 min)
Average charging rate: 101.4 kW
Time driving: 34.6 hours
Drive/charge ratio: 4:1

Also, if you finish a road trip and your battery's not in the red, did you really road trip?


I've got a more massive road trip happening later this summer, and I plan to try again to use more non-Tesla stations where it makes sense to get more first-hand experience with other providers.

[Zaxxon]

Boy, CharIN's response to Ford's announcement of their move to NACS is... Something.



Side note: their inability to properly format a press release across desktop and mobile is a *chef's kiss* analogue to CCS experiences across providers and manufacturers...

[JCC]

Interesting article from Rowan Atkinson on falling out of love with EVs. My biggest reaction to this, was I had no idea Mr. Bean was an electrical engineer!

[Zaxxon]

Interesting article from Rowan Atkinson on falling out of love with EVs. My biggest reaction to this, was I had no idea Mr. Bean was an electrical engineer!

From the 1970s, and rather clueless about the current state of BEVs.

Twitter mega-thread with some debunks by the same prof who wrote the article I linked above, for those who prefer that format:



There are other similar debunks, but Auke Hoekstra's is probably the best as he has the creds to back it up.

[JCC]

Wow! Thanks for the debunk info.

[Zaxxon]

Wow! Thanks for the debunk info.

Here's another.

[JCC]

Found this article as well analyzing (and thorughly poking holes in) his column.

[Zaxxon]

Found this article as well analyzing (and thorughly poking holes in) his column.

Yeah, aside from the specific errors he makes, I don't think he's coming from a bad place--sure it'd be better if we could replace everything all at once, efficiently, and if BEVs today had the powertrain efficiency of BEVs in 2030. And in an ideal world we'd be putting just as much effort into reducing the need for car transport everywhere and buying smaller vehicles in general.

Unfortunately, we live in the real world and cars are going to be a central part of life (esp in the USA) for a very long time to come. Might as well do what we can to reduce their emissions.

[malchior]

Maybe Rowan got it wrong but the Guardian also should have done some basic fact checking before deciding to print it. Additionally he didn't do any research about what is now visible over the horizon. For example, there are new battery technologies *now* like LMFP that are going to change the economics in just the next 2-3 years. We are going to see quite of bit of progress I gather now that the "race is on".

[Zaxxon]

Nice to see Volvo continuing to come on strong with their transition. The EX30 is too small for us, but this looks like a killer car for the price ($35k base!).

[Zaxxon]

For those who don't want to spend 30 min, but are OK with marketing gibberish:



Looks like this one's not going to qualify for the full US credit, but still at that price it looks pretty neat to me.

[Zaxxon]

Hot off the presses: GM follows Ford's lead, will move to NACS starting in 2025, with adapters for current vehicles next year.

#maryfollowed

[Zaxxon]

Details, via CNBC.

[Daehawk]

I like the idea of sound bars from one side to the other. Front and back would be cool. Wheres the speedometer though?

[coopasonic]

Wheres the speedometer though?

Top left corner of the screen, just like the "cheap" Teslas.

[Zaxxon]

This interaction is weird (but good).

[LordMortis]

#maryfollowed

Threw in the towel on self driving ride shares and joining TFG suing California for increased emission and efficiency standards.

[Zaxxon]