Octopus Overlords

Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:28 pm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/ ... mm6931e1_x

Thanks!

NJ R number jumps back up. I guess my secret bunker stocking plan over the summer might have been a good idea.

malchior wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:51 pm NJ R number jumps back up. I guess my secret bunker stocking plan over the summer might have been a good idea.

If you haven't been restocking and preparing since May, you haven't been paying attention. Always. Be. Preparing.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:39 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:28 pm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/ ... mm6931e1_x

Must have been embargoed until 1pm EST. Thanks for the assist!

stessier wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:48 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:28 pm https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/ ... mm6931e1_x

Thanks!

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:58 pm

malchior wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:51 pm NJ R number jumps back up. I guess my secret bunker stocking plan over the summer might have been a good idea.

If you haven't been restocking and preparing since May, you haven't been paying attention. Always. Be. Preparing.

My wife saw me walk in with a pack of toilet paper the other day and was like...good thinking. The only thing I'm not stocking is meats. I'm not doing that with my increasingly iffy power service.

malchior wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:04 pmThe only thing I'm not stocking is meats. I'm not doing that with my increasingly iffy power service.

I've been trying to restock Spam (no, seriously) since mid-March and it's been nearly impossible to find any. At this point, anything shelf-stable should be added (even a single can or box of something) to weekly food run and held in reserve. Just a single box or can that can be slowly accumulated over time, each week. Shelf stable single-serve packs of tuna are still easy to get. Would recommend.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:07 pm

malchior wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:04 pmThe only thing I'm not stocking is meats. I'm not doing that with my increasingly iffy power service.

I've been trying to restock Spam (no, seriously) since mid-March and it's been nearly impossible to find any. At this point, anything shelf-stable should be added (even a single can or box of something) to weekly food run and held in reserve. Just a single box or can that can be slowly accumulated over time, each week. Shelf stable single-serve packs of tuna are still easy to get. Would recommend.

You don't know this, but my wife hates you. You empower my inner-prepper.

What's funny is that I was a pretty hardcore prepper after Sandy. I mean, I was ready for stuff, but nothing like Sandy. After that, I vowed never to be in the same position, so I spent the next 6+ years accumulating dry goods and other supplies to be ready for anything. And then we moved and I said WTF was I thinking keeping all this stuff - particularly after moving it to a smaller house. I started to get rid of it and not 6 months after we moved, global pandemic and complete insanity. So yeah, I was ready to dial it back, but now I've doubled down.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:58 pm

malchior wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 1:51 pm NJ R number jumps back up. I guess my secret bunker stocking plan over the summer might have been a good idea.

If you haven't been restocking and preparing since May, you haven't been paying attention. Always. Be. Preparing.

Time to go buy 50 gallons of water.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:41 am

Formix wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:14 amSpend zero energy on the past.

That's a hard pass from me. This needs to never happen again and those that had anything to do with how we got to this point need to be dragged into the spotlight and held to account.

Yeah. This can't be swept under any rugs.

The people who lit and held the M90 need to see what happens when they closed their fist around it.

Our school had a meeting (virtual, natch) this morning about the coming year. Our district is providing the option of 100% virtual or hybrid (2 cohorts each attending 2 days/week, plus one shared virtual day). About half of families have made their selection thus far--90+% opting for the in-person hybrid option.

I know I've been on the pessimistic bandwagon for... checks notes ...awhile now, but. Wow; that's a far higher proportion of people opting for the in-person option than I would have expected.

Zaxxon wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:38 pmI know I've been on the pessimistic bandwagon for... checks notes ...awhile now, but. Wow; that's a far higher proportion of people opting for the in-person option than I would have expected.

I think parents are burned out and feeling guilty over what they've permitted their kids to do at home (TV, electronics, sleeping, etc...) during the pandemic. Sending them back into a school environment *feels* like you're giving the kids back some sense of normalcy and *feels* like you're letting them experience being a kid again. It might also be seen as a break from them. It could be out of necessity. It could be a combination of all three.

Again, I make no judgements here. I cannot imagine what things are like right now for parents that have younger children. I legitimately don't know what we'd be doing or how life would be for us right now if our daughter was 5 instead of 14, but I can imagine it would be orders of magnitude harder.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:46 pmAgain, I make no judgements here. I cannot imagine what things are like right now for parents that have younger children. I legitimately don't know what we'd be doing or how life would be for us right now if our daughter was 5 instead of 14, but I can imagine it would be orders of magnitude harder.

To be clear, I'm not judging, either. This decision is difficult for myriad reasons for everyone. The fall semester gonna be a shitshow all around.

Also, here's a really, really good summary for non or slightly-science/data inclined folks.

https://twitter.com/meganranney/status/ ... 3790877698

TL/DR?

* Kids do get sick
* Kids do transmit the virus
* School is still possible ... but only with strict precautions & if community infection rates are low
* NO MATTER WHAT, #MaskUp and insist on testing

Zaxxon wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:08 pmTo be clear, I'm not judging, either. This decision is difficult for myriad reasons for everyone. The fall semester gonna be a shitshow all around.

Oh yeah, I didn't think you (or anyone) was. I just wanted to clarify my position in case it sounded like I was speaking from a pedestal of authority.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:46 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:38 pmI know I've been on the pessimistic bandwagon for... checks notes ...awhile now, but. Wow; that's a far higher proportion of people opting for the in-person option than I would have expected.

I think parents are burned out and feeling guilty over what they've permitted their kids to do at home (TV, electronics, sleeping, etc...) during the pandemic. Sending them back into a school environment *feels* like you're giving the kids back some sense of normalcy and *feels* like you're letting them experience being a kid again. It might also be seen as a break from them. It could be out of necessity. It could be a combination of all three.

For those of us with young kids, the intensity of this ^ is more intense than you can imagine.

It's honestly kinda breaking Mrs. Skinypupy right now.

Skinypupy wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:49 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:46 pm I think parents are burned out and feeling guilty over what they've permitted their kids to do at home (TV, electronics, sleeping, etc...) during the pandemic. Sending them back into a school environment *feels* like you're giving the kids back some sense of normalcy and *feels* like you're letting them experience being a kid again. It might also be seen as a break from them. It could be out of necessity. It could be a combination of all three.

For those of us with young kids, the intensity of this ^ is more intense than you can imagine.

It's honestly kinda breaking Mrs. Skinypupy right now.

Lot of that going on here, too. As well as weighing the two terrible options--go back and not actually experience normality, but at least some semblance of it along with some level of socialization, but at the risk of getting COVID-19; or elect remote and (in our case, at least) entirely remove our kids from their schoolmates and any in-person socializing for at least 4+ months. In our district, it's looking like due to the low % of families opting for e-learning, those kids will be entirely or almost entirely separate from their 'normal' classmates (since in most classes we're talking 1-2 kids opting for virtual, so the virtual classes will be kids from a bunch of schools rather than mostly their own school).

Not only is there no 'right' answer, both choices are ridiculously terrible.

Paingod wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:32 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 11:41 am

Formix wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:14 amSpend zero energy on the past.

That's a hard pass from me. This needs to never happen again and those that had anything to do with how we got to this point need to be dragged into the spotlight and held to account.

Yeah. This can't be swept under any rugs.

The people who lit and held the M90 need to see what happens when they closed their fist around it.

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting sweeping anything under the rug. But I ask. What were the repercussions for Cheney with the Haliburton money grab, or any of the other Bush-era cash grabs? What has been the reaction of any Trump supporter you know to the Impeachment? I feel like the problems we are facing are so vast and need so much immediate action that any energy spent litigating what happened in the past is wasted. It will change no minds, and most likely bring exactly no one to "justice". Do we need to impose legislation and legally binding definitions to ensure that "gentlemen's agreement" norms are codified in law wherever possible? Oh, Hells yes. But I have passed the point where I believe anyone will have their mind changed about what has already happened, or be dissuaded from doing whatever slimy and quasi-illegal misdeeds they might be inclined to do in the future. What if we only get 2 years of Joe and a House/Senate majority? Do we spend that time proving Trump et al committed crimes or getting legal restrictions getting placed on Executive Branch power, green legislation, economy, and healthcare reform, restoring oversight on Wall Street, big banks, Citizen's United repeal, or any of probably a dozen other things?

Formix wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:46 pm To be clear, I wasn't suggesting sweeping anything under the rug. But I ask. What were the repercussions for Cheney with the Haliburton money grab, or any of the other Bush-era cash grabs? What has been the reaction of any Trump supporter you know to the Impeachment?

I'm probably not the best person to answer this, but I put the Cheney, Bush-era Haliburton stuff on a different level than what's happening now. To be clear, it was criminal and there should have been an accounting. However, I'm at "crimes against humanity" levels with the Trump administration at this point and the idea that anyone elected to office could potentially consider this the new bar for acceptable in the future is unthinkable to me.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:03 pm

Formix wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 4:46 pm To be clear, I wasn't suggesting sweeping anything under the rug. But I ask. What were the repercussions for Cheney with the Haliburton money grab, or any of the other Bush-era cash grabs? What has been the reaction of any Trump supporter you know to the Impeachment?

I'm probably not the best person to answer this, but I put the Cheney, Bush-era Haliburton stuff on a different level than what's happening now. To be clear, it was criminal and there should have been an accounting. However, I'm at "crimes against humanity" levels with the Trump administration at this point and the idea that anyone elected to office could potentially consider this the new bar for acceptable in the future is unthinkable to me.

I agree completely about the "crimes against humanity" level, but I thought Bush set the bar, and after Obama, it was reset and nobody could go that low again. Then we get Trump, where there is demonstrably no bottom. Do we really think that there's nobody worse that could get elected? He still has 43-50% approval. Heck, he might just get reelected, at which point, I'm out and headed to New Zealand or wherever. Because there apparently is no American bottom. Graft, lies, and an administration full of "acting" heads, historic unemployment, historic GDP drop, 150,000 dead Americans with no end in sight, anonymous federal agents detaining Americans without probable cause, delaying the election, not going along with the election results, and he STILL has 43-50% approval? I don't know WTF happened, but the America I thought I lived in apparently never did exist.

Formix wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:44 pm Do we really think that there's nobody worse that could get elected?

Someone that isn't a moron would absolutely be worse. Speaking of which, I'm just seeing this now:

https://twitter.com/DrTomFrieden/status ... 8203026432

Distributing a vaccine will be complex. During the H1N1 pandemic, an unheralded success was delivery of vaccines through the robust infrastructure of the Vaccines For Children program. DOD has zero experience sending vaccines to doctors in the US.

Every day. Every day is new level of nonsense.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:18 pm

Formix wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:44 pm Do we really think that there's nobody worse that could get elected?

Someone that isn't a moron would absolutely be worse. Speaking of which, I'm just seeing this now:

https://twitter.com/DrTomFrieden/status ... 8203026432

Distributing a vaccine will be complex. During the H1N1 pandemic, an unheralded success was delivery of vaccines through the robust infrastructure of the Vaccines For Children program. DOD has zero experience sending vaccines to doctors in the US.

Every day. Every day is new level of nonsense.

If the objective is to give everyone shots, you need the people who can shoot them.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:18 pm

Formix wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:44 pm Do we really think that there's nobody worse that could get elected?

Someone that isn't a moron would absolutely be worse. Speaking of which, I'm just seeing this now:

https://twitter.com/DrTomFrieden/status ... 8203026432

Distributing a vaccine will be complex. During the H1N1 pandemic, an unheralded success was delivery of vaccines through the robust infrastructure of the Vaccines For Children program. DOD has zero experience sending vaccines to doctors in the US.

Every day. Every day is new level of nonsense.

This is completely different from what they said earlier this week or to Congress *yesterday*. Not just nonsense. It is just chaos. Deadly chaos.

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 9:38 pm When this is all over, there needs to be an accounting and people need to answer for their deeds:

Most troubling of all, perhaps, was a sentiment the expert said a member of Kushner’s team expressed: that because the virus had hit blue states hardest, a national plan was unnecessary and would not make sense politically. “The political folks believed that because it was going to be relegated to Democratic states, that they could blame those governors, and that would be an effective political strategy,” said the expert.

That logic may have swayed Kushner. “It was very clear that Jared was ultimately the decision maker as to what [plan] was going to come out,” the expert said.

Read more, here:

https://twitter.com/KatherineEban/statu ... 8339183616

BREAKING: My latest @VanityFair
story, a detailed investigation into how the White House secretly drafted, then abandoned, a plan to nationalize America's broken #COVID19 diagnostic testing system.

That seriously has to be some treason level shit.

Did anyone buy into the hype about those finger "hooks" for opening doors and punching keys at credit card terminals? They go for up to $25 each, but the Chinese made ones are as low as 5 for $10 (probably plated copper over something)

Someone claimed that copper or brass is naturally antiviral. Somehow, that sounds a bit hokey to me. I haven't Googled it yet.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:18 pm

Formix wrote: Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:44 pm Do we really think that there's nobody worse that could get elected?

Someone that isn't a moron would absolutely be worse.

Which is why there should be an accounting held of this administration after it is gone. It is much easier to go after the morons because they lack the intelligence to cover their tracks and because the people who weren't morons can provide so much corroborating evidence. This way the future ones who aren't morons but aspire to Trumpian levels of dictatorship can at least be deterred just a little bit.

Kasey Chang wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:14 am Did anyone buy into the hype about those finger "hooks" for opening doors and punching keys at credit card terminals? They go for up to $25 each, but the Chinese made ones are as low as 5 for $10 (probably plated copper over something)

Someone claimed that copper or brass is naturally antiviral. Somehow, that sounds a bit hokey to me. I haven't Googled it yet.

I didn't buy them, but my employer 3D printed a ton of them for us (and thus were made out of plastic). It's true that copper kills viruses - over time, though, not instantly.

Copper does have some antibacterial properties if I remember correctly. I wouldn’t think it helps at all with Corona, though.

Kasey Chang wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 5:14 am Someone claimed that copper or brass is naturally antiviral. Somehow, that sounds a bit hokey to me. I haven't Googled it yet.

Like Ralph said, antibacterial.

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 10:05 am Copper does have some antibacterial properties if I remember correctly. I wouldn’t think it helps at all with Corona, though.

But I'm sure Trump supporters eating copious amounts of pennies is behind the current change shortage.

Eating rolls of pennies would make no cents.

Copper is antimicrobial, and has been shown to kill COVID-19 in four hours vs ~48 on stainless steel. It's more effective on bacteria, but still works for viruses.

That said, four hours is still to long to be meaningful in during a shopping trip compared, to, say, dropping it in alcohol. For minute-to-minute use, anything copper is just as contaminated as anything else.

And practically you’re going to out the copper grabber in your pocket or grab the wrong side so you’ll get exposed anyway. Maybe less but still questionable.

(Sorry BH) - Bad news from Indiana:

One of the first school districts in the country to reopen its doors during the coronavirus pandemic did not even make it a day before being forced to grapple with the issue facing every system actively trying to get students into classrooms: What happens when someone comes to school infected?

Just hours into the first day of classes on Thursday, a call from the county health department notified Greenfield Central Junior High School in Indiana that a student who had walked the halls and sat in various classrooms had tested positive for the coronavirus.

...

“There’s no good answer,” Mark Henry, superintendent of the Cypress-Fairbanks Independent School District near Houston, told trustees at a recent special meeting in which they voted to postpone the district’s hybrid reopening until September. “If there was a good answer, if there were an easy answer,” he said, “we would lay it out for you and everybody would be happy.”

Anywhere that schools do reopen — outside of a portion of the Northeast where the virus is largely under control — is likely to see positive test results quickly, as in Indiana.

In closing:

“I most definitely felt like we were not ready,” said Russell Wiley, a history teacher at nearby Greenfield-Central High School. “Really, our whole state’s not ready. We don’t have the virus under control. It’s just kind of like pretending like it’s not there.”

One father whose daughter goes to the middle school with the positive case said he felt conflicted about his three children attending classes in person. Few people in the community are wearing masks, said the father, who asked not to be named because he worried that his family would face backlash.

“I have all these concerns,” the father said. But he has to commute at least an hour to work every day, so remote learning was not a good option for his family.

“It’s just a mess,” he said. “I don’t know what the answers are.”

YellowKing wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:21 am Eating rolls of pennies would make no cents.

RE: trumpaloos still being fully onboard with all of the trumpian idiocy, I will say I am starting to see some cracks. At least anecdotally in my own spheres. I live in Texas and work in pre-hospital healthcare which, traditionally, has been a very(VERY) red demographic. But with the administration's repeated assaults on science even some of my colleagues that have positions requiring only a year or less of higher education are starting to peel away. And had a roundtable with some in-laws last night where they confessed trump was an idiot. Still playing the 'I thought he was the lesser it two evils' card but my BIL even recanted on that. The FIL wasn't willing to go that far yet (and I still have one BIL that is and always will be full MAGA). But it's progress....at a cost of 150,000+ lives and a destroyed economy but hey, who knew trump was an idiot, amirite?

GungHo wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 12:56 pmwho knew trump was an idiot, amirite?

Some people were saying. Some beautiful people.

Blackhawk wrote: Sat Aug 01, 2020 11:24 am Copper is antimicrobial, and has been shown to kill COVID-19 in four hours vs ~48 on stainless steel. It's more effective on bacteria, but still works for viruses.

That said, four hours is still to long to be meaningful in during a shopping trip compared, to, say, dropping it in alcohol. For minute-to-minute use, anything copper is just as contaminated as anything else.

The latest info says transmission via surfaces (called fomites, to sound sciency) is negligible. In fact, there's no known cases that were definitely caused that way. Doesn't mean the risk is zero, but pretty close. I still use hand sanitizer whenever I leave a high-traffic environment like a store, mainly because Wife bought gallons of the stuff.

Correct - this goes back to the "hygiene theater" I mentioned earlier this week, coming from the article in The Atlantic. This isn't to suggest hand washing isn't important, but in terms of a point of focus (or if an organization is bragging about "deep cleaning" or using special EPA cleaners for hand rails and door knobs), that's a distraction. People saying restaurants and bars and schools should be open because of "enhanced cleaning" are either misrepresenting risk or not clear on how this virus is primarily spread.

Also: "the latest info" is always under revision. Given the stakes, a little extra caution is prudent...just don't obsess about it.

Yeah, I would not be surprised to see incidents of skin cancer going up due to abuse of UV lights as "sanitizers". So in a way, COVID causes cancer!

But really, people are just inventing gadgets that are of dubious utility to sell during COVID times. There's this... Phone sanitizer, I think it's called "phoneSoap" or something stupid like that... wireless charger with UV light to also sanitizes your phone. Or this water bottle with a UV tube in the bottle cap to sanitize your water. What a joke. Next you'll see UV light built into everything like vacuums.