Octopus Overlords

stessier wrote:

Unagi wrote:It's a mistake to think that the Zerker must die. It's perfectly OK if he's not ever killed.

Huh? How do we win that way?

I'm now troubled by why you asked this question.

You were asking why the Zerker wouldn't be 'set-up for death' by his team, but then when I answered, you seemed to be unlclear on who we were talking about in the first place??




stessier?

Scoop20906 wrote:

Unagi wrote:

stessier wrote:Really - you are pushing the guy you think is most likely to explode???

I think he's pushing the guy he thinks has the most consensus.

That is a horrible mis-characterization of what I have been doing, Unagi, and it makes you look hella wolfy to me.

Doesn't it really seem like Scoop is begging for votes? And he never actually voted for RMC.

I'm back to where I started. Scoop and RMC. Scoop is Splodie.

 RMC 
 

Unagi wrote:

stessier wrote:

Unagi wrote:It's a mistake to think that the Zerker must die. It's perfectly OK if he's not ever killed.

Huh? How do we win that way?

I'm now troubled by why you asked this question.

You were asking why the Zerker wouldn't be 'set-up for death' by his team, but then when I answered, you seemed to be unlclear on who we were talking about in the first place??




stessier?

Yes, I asked where you had said the N-1 thing. You answered that and then, in a new paragraph, said "It's a mistake to think that the Zerker must die. It's perfectly OK if he's not ever killed."

I still think that has little to do with what came before and I read it as "we can win without killing the Zerker." It made no sense. Even re-reading that post now that I know what you actually meant, I don't follow how you got from one to the other.

Scoop20906 wrote:Question to someone since I don't do numbers: If we miss on the lynch today what are our chance in winning considering even if we kill the baddies on the next two days we would still lose one person to the zerker.

THANKS!

If we miss today then tomorrow we will have 3 good guys and 2 bad guys. If we kill the non-zerker, that will make it 2-1 on the final day. If we kill the zerker tomorrow, that means it will be 1 bad guy and 1 good guy after the night kill.

Scoop20906 wrote:Question to someone since I don't do numbers: If we miss on the lynch today what are our chance in winning considering even if we kill the baddies on the next two days we would still lose one person to the zerker.

THANKS!

Let's say that I am right - but no one believes me and we kill me today, and the zerker Qantaga 'last'.
(the names aren't really important for the below analysis - replace whomever, with whomever....)


Kill Zerker last (after a miss today)
Today: msteelers, chaos, Scoop, Unagi, Stessier, RMC, Qantaga
Tonight: msteelers, chaos, Scoop, Unagi, Stessier, RMC, Qantaga
Tomorrow morning (Maj 3) we kill a villain: msteelers, chaos, Scoop, Unagi, Stessier, RMC, Qantaga
That night kill: msteelers, chaos, Scoop, Unagi, Stessier, RMC, Qantaga
Next Morning (Maj 2) we kill Zerker - who kills Stessier : chaos, Scoop, Unagi, Stessier, RMC, Qantaga

You would still 'win' as the sole survivor.

Kill Zerker first (after a miss today)
Today: msteelers, chaos, Scoop, Unagi, Stessier, RMC, Qantaga
Tonight: msteelers, chaos, Scoop, Unagi, Stessier, RMC, Qantaga
Tomorrow morning (Maj 3) we kill a zerker - who kills chaos : msteelers, chaos, Scoop, Unagi, Stessier, RMC, Qantaga
That night kill: msteelers, chaos, Scoop, Unagi, Stessier, RMC, Qantaga
Next Morning - : chaos, Scoop, Unagi, Stessier, RMC, Qantaga

I think that has you dead with the last Villain. Check my work - I cut-n-pasted, perhaps too much.

If we are to miss once more, we must not kill the Zerker First, he must die last.

Unagi wrote:

stessier wrote:

Unagi wrote:It's a mistake to think that the Zerker must die. It's perfectly OK if he's not ever killed.

Huh? How do we win that way?

The question was addressing the Villains attempt to win, and they don't need their Zerker dead to win.

as in: "Why would the Villains want to make their Zerker totally trusted?"
answer: "Why not?"

See, this is where we disconnect.

The question in the post was addressing the villians attempt to win as was your last sentence. But my questions to you had nothing to do with that - it was a "Huh - explain" and a "where did you say that". I wasn't asking the question you were answering with that last sentence. What you/I quoted was, but not what I was currently thinking.

Well, since I'm not 100% understanding where you are now at with things... I will simply ask this:

Do you need me further, or can I go get lunch?

Scoop20906 wrote:

Unagi wrote:

stessier wrote:Really - you are pushing the guy you think is most likely to explode???

I think he's pushing the guy he thinks has the most consensus.

That is a horrible mis-characterization of what I have been doing, Unagi, and it makes you look hella wolfy to me.

Well. I didn't mean for it to be a negative comment, Scoop - and if I were trying to make you out to look like a wolf - I probably wouldn't start by telling everyone that I'm all but sure you aren't one.

Unagi wrote:Well, since I'm not 100% understanding where you are now at with things... I will simply ask this:

Do you need me further, or can I go get lunch?

I voted. Not for you. Go to lunch.

Dang, I am off checking to see if a tsunami is coming up my alley and this thread explodes...cool beans!

Majority is 4

Scoop20906 (1) - RMC,
RMC (2) - Unagi, Stessier,

No votes cast: Qantaga, MSteelers, Scoop20906, Chaosraven,

So Scoop The 'good' guy, is pushing for everyone else to do his dirty work.

Scoop is the baddie. I am the goodie!

Also - Hope no big waves are coming your way newcastle.

Doesn't anyone else read that as a sign I am right?

RMC wrote: Also - Hope no big waves are coming your way newcastle.

absolutely nothing of significance in my neck of the woods; which oddly dissapointed me, would like to have seen a miniscule tidal surge. Meh, guess i should count my blessings.

stessier wrote:

Scoop20906 wrote:

Unagi wrote:

stessier wrote:Really - you are pushing the guy you think is most likely to explode???

I think he's pushing the guy he thinks has the most consensus.

That is a horrible mis-characterization of what I have been doing, Unagi, and it makes you look hella wolfy to me.

Doesn't it really seem like Scoop is begging for votes? And he never actually voted for RMC.

I'm back to where I started. Scoop and RMC. Scoop is Splodie.

 RMC 
 

Doesn't matter to me if you think I am begging or not. If we get a baddie today we give ourselves a much better chance to win on tomorrows vote. I'm feeling pretty good about this vote but if we are wrong then it will cause alot of problems tomorrow.

 Accuse RMC 
 

Hey RMC. If you zerk, I dare you to kill me. Double dare you in fact.

Scoop20906 wrote:Hey RMC. If you zerk, I dare you to kill me. Double dare you in fact.

 Withdraw Scoop 
 


 RMC 
 


Nope not gonna kill you..But you were all right.. Boom

Would you maybe be so kind as to kill me?

It is at times like this that I wish I could swear.

It's not the worst of scenarios.

VOTING CLOSED

Majority is 4

RMC (4) - Unagi, Stessier, Scoop20906, RMC,


No votes cast: Qantaga, MSteelers, Chaosraven,

(write up incoming, be a few more minutes)

Interlude 4 Bowler Flight

An underwater entry was chosen, since a ground based entry was unfeasible. The team had swum to within fifty feet from the CreigVeld facilities. The company operated a facility with an indoor dock and that gave the team its penetration point.

Qantaga swam closer to the building, and flicked a device on his goggles. Up ahead of him a crisscrossing of alarm lasers appeared. He gave a nod to Msteelers floating next to him who then set off the jammer. The laser grid disappeared, “We got 15 seconds.” Msteelers said.

The team swam in and out, emerging out of the water fast, guns held up. RMC was the first to no notice, “There’s no ship and no one is here. It’s empty”

“We got to find something here, they cant just have upped and left overnight. Search this place,” Scoop said.

Stessier had made his way to what looked like an abandoned computer room, cables were still strewn about, but not computers, he was puzzled when a scrap of paper caught his eye, bending down he picked it up.

Chaosraven meanwhile had his Geiger counter out and was sweeping the loading area. The Geiger counter responded and was giving off a series of loud pitches “Yeah the nuke stuff was here, no doubt about it. But where the hell is it. No boats, nothing.”

Unagi then came back to main area. “Place is deserted, no one here.”

Stessier then ran back into the main area holding the scrap of paper in his hand. “You guys ever wonder what a ship would need with jet fuel? They’re moving the materials by plane. We have to get to the airport. We cant be far behind them!”

Oddjob knew this location, and knew it well. He had to make sure that the team didn’t come out unscathed, maybe even derail it a bit. He watched the team go in. He had specific orders. One person couldn’t live. He spotted his target, drew his bowler hat, and let it fly.

Chaosraven had been sweeping with his Geiger counter, his back turned to the threat. The hat split into his shoulders, severing his neck. Death was quick, and painful. Chaosraven had died the death of a loyal MI6.

Unagi was the first to react, turning he saw the savage grin of Oddjob and let a long stream of bullets fly. RMC flew backwards as the bullets riddled his body. Twitching his corpse flopped on the ground for a few moments, then grew still. RMC had been Spectre!


WRITEUP IS FOR FLAVOR ONLY

INTERLUDE BOILERPLATE
Q- Who's biometrics shall you investigate?
Villains- Who shall not live another day?
Judy Havelock - Which team member shall you protect tonight?
Erich Kriegler - Shall the EMP detonate now?

RMC wrote:

Scoop20906 wrote:Hey RMC. If you zerk, I dare you to kill me. Double dare you in fact.

 Withdraw Scoop 
 


 RMC 
 


Nope not gonna kill you..But you were all right.. Boom

I hope you had fun in your first game as a baddie, RMC.

Shouldn't the team be able to identify right away which agent is secretly Oddjob? Hmmm...maybe it's the enormous Asian agent with a square jaw and a bowler hat?

El Guapo wrote:Shouldn't the team be able to identify right away which agent is secretly Oddjob? Hmmm...maybe it's the enormous Asian agent with a square jaw and a bowler hat?

The pockets of specter is deep and the disguise technology available is vast....so...no!

I got theories now based on the current events but I'll wait until the last baddie gets around to submitting this kill order and newcastle waits the appropriate amount of time to advance the night to day.

Let me just say right now my theories are earth shattering and will most likely spell doom for the remaining baddie.

Don't worry, mates. We've got this thing all wrapped up.

Wow.

I had to work in Birmingham this morning, then drive home to Atlanta, so I missed all the activity.

Nice job on exposing RMC, but it does hurt that he was Odd Job.

We'll have one shot to find Hugo in Chapter 5, after the dust settles from the Interlude.

Sure wish Chaos would have self-protected last night, but I guess he was playing the percentages and saving it for this interlude.

Qantaga wrote:Sure wish Chaos would have self-protected last night, but I guess he was playing the percentages and saving it for this interlude.

Huh?

msteelers wrote:

Qantaga wrote:Sure wish Chaos would have self-protected last night, but I guess he was playing the percentages and saving it for this interlude.

Huh?

If Chaos would have self-protected in interlude 3, he would have been protected from Odd Job in this chapter (4).

Since he protected Remus in interlude 2, he couldn't protect Remus in interlude 3. It would have been nice if he would have self-protected in interlude 3, so Odd Job's kill would have been neutralized. It appears that he probably protected you (msteelers) in interlude 3 and was planning to self-protect in interlude 4.

At least, that's how the protector's ability has always been applied in games I've played with a 'zerker.

My comment was meaning that if Chaos was self-protected, thus no Odd Job kill, we would have had two chances to find the last baddie, rather than the one chance we have now.

Qantaga wrote:If Chaos would have self-protected in interlude 3, he would have been protected from Odd Job in this chapter (4).

I don't think that's correct, but I could be wrong.

msteelers wrote:

Qantaga wrote:If Chaos would have self-protected in interlude 3, he would have been protected from Odd Job in this chapter (4).

I don't think that's correct, but I could be wrong.

You're probably right. It just seems like all other games I've played in have the protector's ability extending to the day cycle (of course, that could be the GT minor-league rules).

Chapter 5 The Final Countdown

“Hold on!” Qantaga shouted as he floored the van. The van crashed through the airfields gates, instantaneously tire spikes popped up, but the van swept through. Puncture proof tires prevented any blowouts. A guard popped up from his shack, a phone already in his hand. “What hangar was it again?’ Qantaga asked

“19” Scoop replied, “Down by the south end.”

“You sure about this?” Unagi asked.

“Not 100%, but it’s the best we got when you add in the Jet Fuel receipt Stessier found. CreigVeld doesn’t have a hangar, but a shell company that’s funded by the same Bahamas based bank does.” Scoop replied, still scanning his computer for information. Qantaga looked around and saw the signs pointing to hangars 10-20. He took a hard right and as they turned the corner they saw a small executive jet slowly rolling out of hangar 19.

“That’s got to be it.” Msteelers said pointing at the jet. And as if to confirm the statement men started running out of the hangar with AK-47’s in hand. Milliseconds later a hail of bullets flew at the van.

Stessier shot out a window, perched his his assault rifle out and let loose a responding barrage. The hanger workers dropped and hid behind cover. “Need something heavier,” He said as he kept the barrage up.

Unagi saw the plane headed toward the runway and could see the mission failing. He whirled behind the seat and started to remove the rocket launcher from its casing when Stessier shot his arm out stopping Unagi. “You crazy, we can’t bring that plane down. Only way to stop the damn thing is to get on it.”

The windshield exploded in a thousand fragments, “Got to do something about those hanger guys! They’re going to blow us up unless we neutralize them.” Qantaga yelled.

“Go after the plane, I’ll secure the hanger” Msteelers said as he popped the back door of the van open, and hurtled himself out. As he hit the ground, he rolled away from it and then popped up; gun in hand he sprinted towards a crate 20 yards away. As he dashed behind the crate he saw the men keeping their focus on the van. He hadn’t been spotted. He made a quick count and came up with five of them. He’d have to be quick. As the van veered off in chase of the plane the hanger men were starting to rotate; exposing their backs in the process.

It was now or never time. Slipping the safety off, he started firing. The first fell, then the second, then the third. The fourth started to turn around but was cut down. The fifth had seen his comrade fall and swiveled and fired on Msteelers. Bullets stitched up across his chest, with a steely inner strength, he kept his focus, and swung the gun to the fifth man, bullets blazed from his barrel, punching vicious holes into the man’s body.

With his dying moments Msteelers turned his head turned to see the van speeding toward the plane. It was now up to them, then Msteelers died

WRITEUP IS FOR FLAVOR ONLY!

3 Votes need for Majority


No Votes Cast: Quantaga, Scoop, Stessier, Unagi

Scoop20906 wrote:tLet me just say right now my theories are earth shattering and will most likely spell doom for the remaining baddie.

Okay, lay it on us.

Let's get Hugo.

Chaosraven wrote:

what he said

Well.

I'll be pretty plain about this.

I'm not voting Scoop off. I've seen way too much 'Good' (and non-team like interaction between him and Lassr and RMC) to think he's a Villain in this game.

Scoop,
I've just now finished re-reading through stessier's posts to basically share this all with you.

These are the posts I found worth sharing regarding my consideration of stessier's guilt/innocence:

stessier ;-) wrote: RMC 
 

Showoff.

The vote here is meaningless, I imagine - it was the wink that caught my eye when stessier made it. I wasn't sure if stessier was trying to have a joke with a player he had just spoken with 'off line'.
(stessier had changed his post's subject to be a wink). In hindsight, I'm actually thinking it's probably unlikely stessier would wink at a teammate like that.

stessier wrote:I'm not sure why people are going after Scoop. He tends to participate. Tru1cy still seems like the right vote for now.

He get's points for me on that post, as I agree.

stessier wrote:What is the case against Theohall again? Because Grund and Scoop said so and the lemmings followed?
I think tru1cy is still a much better target. With a mere 2 votes, he has drastically increased his participation to something like a post a day. He too has specifically said it wouldn't hurt to off him, meaning not a Special, but still participating. That just screams Wolf to me.

Again, stessier argues what I think, at the time, was the right thing here.

stessier wrote:Am I the only one who has no self control and scrolls down to see what actually happened, but then has trouble going back to re-read the wall of text and feels bad about it when everyone else says how well done it is?

This post made me feel that stessier was just making a quick and honest statement. And the nature of that post paints him as a non villain. If he did this on purpose, it's a sligtly outside the box manner to earn trust.



And here is one of the times that Lassr tried to throw out a barb at me, but stessier actually called Lassr out on it's absurdity.

Lassr wrote:One thing I'm curious about. Unagi, why did you do the withdraw on theohall yesterday when you didn't have a vote on him?
It was almost a tricky way to try and get someone to put him over on the next vote when they may be thinking they were casting the N-1 vote

stessier wrote:You're kidding, right?
He was responding to someone (can't remember who) that was on the train and said "here, follow this example Withdraw theo, accuse tru1cy". What a very odd thing to try and paint as nefarious.

This isn't something I would expect Lassr's partner to bring up and point out.

stessier wrote:Wait - just how new are you? I thought you had played over at GT. Has anyone played with RMC before?
<snip>

This is stessier reacting to something RMC just posted. I wasn't sure if any of it was real or fake. I will say I was certainly just as incredulous as stessier at a few of RMC posts - and wasn't sure what to make of em.

stessier wrote:Has there ever been a vote RMC didn't like? Noobie participation - or something more sinister?
<snip>

This also helps stessier's case. Yes. it could just be 'cover'. And again, RMC was the zerker, so any build up of suspicion on him could be read as a partner trying to light the zerker's fuse, but I don't think that's what the case was here.

stessier wrote:

Unagi wrote:

Remus West wrote:

Remus West wrote:I suppose I will test my first theory. Chaosraven, how do you feel about shooting someone today? I'd suggest RMC but it would obviously be up to you if my theory is correct.

Well, nevermind my theory then. Thanks for the save. Since I'm probably gone tonight.....I know a bad guy for certain.
 withdraw RMC 
 

2) you know a bad guy for certain. Excellent. Who.

+1
And who is the good guy you know as well?

This is actually, for just a paranoid reason, a post of stessiers' that I will go on record to say does actually maybe trouble me. Considering what we all now know about the Night 1 EMP, personally, I think a villain would have tried to communicate that he felt certain there were indeed 2 scans, for what amounts to the same reasons that Remus spoke - but applied in the opposite, more crafty and nefarious direction.
But, the truth is - I also assumed there were 2 scans and would have said as much, but I thought the revalation of Remus' "trusted" player (if the player was alive) was a seperate question (to be brought up later).



So, those are basically the reasons I'm just not thinking stessier is the last villain.

I will also point out that I said this a while back, before Remus revealed his scan (that Scoop and stessier were the two I felt were most 'clear').

I plan to make one of these long posts 'on Qantaga', but I wont have the time tonight (and not sure when tomorrow - but I will do it tomorrow)

I saw stuff as I made this long 'stessier' post.

I will say that there are a lot of things that Qantaga played very well (and I'm not pretending to know I'm right, I do harbor some doubts, but not strong ones).

I also think their team played damn well, but I also saw things that I think are convincing.

One small thing that isn't even a post of Qantaga's ... actually a couple small 'wolfy' things I saw...
His timing throughout the game is interesting (I do hope all of us re-read things). Look for his timing.
He also isn't posting all too often (but enough not to be totally missed) - but his posts seem a little more 'defensive' when he does make some of them. (I guess I am speaking perhaps specifically to some interchanges I read between him and Scoop). In any case, they seemed not typical to what I've come to see from Qantaga, here (I've not played at GT in quite a while).
And finally, he seemed to come in here just at this last day (having missed all the fun), ready to rock and roll, but really hasn't spoken to any of the events that have transpired.

Unagi,

I want to ask you to do me one big favor. If you really are a good agent, like you say you are, I want to ask you to discard all your assumptions, all your gut feelings, and all your analysis just for this one post.

I am going to ask you to look at a particular moment in the game.

- It is Day 2
- theohall has been lynched. rshetts2 has been killed by the bad guys.

At this point in the game (from page 7), here is the vote total:

Scoop (2)- Grundbegriff, Remus,
Qantaga (3)- Scoop, Truicy, MSteelers,
Grundbegriff (1) - Unagi,
Truicy (1)- Stessier,

At this time, there are some key things to consider:

- The bad guys know that the EMP has gone off. So, at that point of the game, they know that no scan information has been revealed and that the Seer does not have any conclusive evidence about any of them.
- The bad guys are in communication (the last Bond game, they even had their own forum, which I guess is true for this game, as well), so they have the ability to strategize before they ever make a move in the thread.

Let's pretend for a moment that I'm Hugo (I am NOT), who is the only bad guy I could possibly be with both Erich and Odd Job exposed already.

In your heart, do you really believe that the bad guy's strategy would be to have Lassr (Erich) go to the thread and vote Hugo to n-2? Then, to let some time go by and next have Odd Job (RMC) come along and place Hugo at n-1? This would enable any good agent (maybe just with a desire to move the game along) to lynch Hugo.

With so many options available to the other bad guys (such as putting votes on Scoop or Grund or tru1cy to take heat off Hugo), can you really imagine a scenario where two bad guys are willingly going to take their partner to n-1 at such an early stage of the game (especially since he is not the 'zerker)?

I can almost understand your argument yesterday when you were saying that it was possible if I were Odd Job. However, do you really think the bad guys would be willing to put Hugo at n-1 on Day 2 of the game (when he could easily be killed and removed from the game) on the off chance that he could use it as a smoke screen three days later?

As you are all well aware, posts and interactions can be thought out ahead of time and posted to mislead. However, the actual events of this game are pointing very definitively towards the likelihood (I would say the odds have to be 90+%) that I am good.

That is good news for the other two good agents here. You can look at the game and know that I am innocent. That means the other two good agents only need to pick between two players to find Hugo. I still have to choose between three.

One thing is certain in this game. I am an innocent agent. I am not Hugo Drax. While I realize that it is not completely proven, the events of this game must tell you that, of all remaining players, I am the absolute least likely to be Hugo.

Qantaga, if you are indeed good - you need to understand that I do see that one moment of the game, and I do see how it seems likely that you are good from it.

Honestly, I sincerely don't need it pointed out. We've all spoken about it. I've looked at it carefully, and plan to even adress that moment when I make the post on what I see in your position in the game.

I've been a wolf.

I've been a wolf and I've been at N-1, and my team mates have been in that vote before and they took their votes off and the entire train evaporated.

Actually, that's a lie, but I've most certainly seen it happen to others.

You were at N-1 for a portion of a day. Your teammates were around, and the rest of us had demonstrated we were not likely to change our vote.

RMC and Lassr were the first to take votes off you.

And one thing from your post just now totally stood out to me:

Qantaga wrote:With so many options available to the other bad guys (such as putting votes on Scoop or Grund or tru1cy to take heat off Hugo), can you really imagine a scenario where two bad guys are willingly going to take their partner to n-1 at such an early stage of the game

First. Yes. Early in the Game with no Seer Scan to worry about, this is exactly the time to take a partner to N-1 and bring him back down again. Getting to N-1 and back down again is an enormous advantage for a bad-guy.

Second - and this is interesting... You casually write that statement up there with what appears to be the unflinching knowledge that Scoop is a good guy.

(and I actually agree, through my shared deductions, but I've heard you make no declarations)

In fact you seem to make it clear that you have some big choices in front of you:

Qantaga wrote:That is good news for the other two good agents here. You can look at the game and know that I am innocent. That means the other two good agents only need to pick between two players to find Hugo. I still have to choose between three.

Unagi wrote:And one thing from your post just now totally stood out to me:

Qantaga wrote:With so many options available to the other bad guys (such as putting votes on Scoop or Grund or tru1cy to take heat off Hugo), can you really imagine a scenario where two bad guys are willingly going to take their partner to n-1 at such an early stage of the game

Second - and this is interesting... You casually write that statement up there with what appears to be the unflinching knowledge that Scoop is a good guy.]

Look at the vote at that time:

Scoop (2)- Grundbegriff, Remus,
Qantaga (3)- Scoop, Truicy, MSteelers,
Grundbegriff (1) - Unagi,
Truicy (1)- Stessier,

It's not unflinching knowledge that Scoop is good. It's unflinching knowledge that Scoop already had 2 votes on him (thus, why I grouped him with Grund and tru1cy in my example). Why would Lassr and RMC attach votes to me instead of Scoop, if I were Hugo (again, I'm not), at that point of the game? Why move Hugo to n-1 instead of an innocent to n-2?

If anything, it points more to Scoop's guilt (not that I'm going in that direction), since the bad guys chose to vote on me and not on Scoop.

As to RMC being the first to back off, yes he did 5 and a half hours later. That's a long time to risk losing Hugo on Day 2.

In respect to your wishes, I won't address it again.