How is your career going?

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:24 pm

I suppose my plans to be a welder will have to be put on the back burner for a while. I just accepted a position as Customer Support Manager for a company that makes fork lifts.

As a note regarding compensation: I tried an approach that I've never tried before - when asked about my salary requirements, I responded that I would hope the company would make me an offer that reflected their excitement at having me join the team, their confidence in my abilities, and the overall cost of filling open positions. I have no idea how high they would have gone if I'd played the usual negotiation games with them, but the figure they came in at is around 25% higher than I'd have probably had the balls to ask for. It's a fair number, don't get me wrong, and it's less than the most I've ever made by around 10%, but I wouldn't have been comfortable insisting on such a figure without another job already available to me.

paulbaxter · Post by **paulbaxter** » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:24 pm

That's an awesome answer to the salary question. Maybe I'll be able to use that someday.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Fri Jul 08, 2016 4:44 pm

A quick update... I've gotten one job offer, which is a slight raise but a longer commute with less responsibility - but includes OSHA & HIPPA compliance activities in addition to running the network. I've tentatively accepted, and it starts on the 18th. I have a second interview next week for a service company working as a team lead, which I expect to be a better bump in pay; they even skipped a portion of the interview process because I've been working with them for 2 years as a site contact for one of their clients. They seem really interested in bringing me on, and I'd rather do that than be an IT/Safety guy. A third opportunity is taking its sweet-ass time blooming, but I have my first interview next week. That position would be the best one, but has an hour-long commute on each side of it.

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed for the 60 minute commute, but I have a job now anyway.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:02 am

So, first day on the new job. It's strange being back in a clean office and wearing button-up shirts again after years in a manufacturing environment where jeans and a polo were as dressy as anything got.

I'm still looking for something better, though. While this was actually a small raise in pay, it's a step down in title and a massive step down in challenge. I'm afraid my biggest concern here will be keeping myself amused without getting fired. The job itself is very familiar and old hat.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 11:17 am

Congrats on staying employed and glad to hear your concessions weren't financial and are somewhat manageable. If you are looking at correcting the backslide on job title/responsibility; that's something to address sooner than later. Any chance your current employer will be able to accommodate you once they see how awesome you are?

There was a disruption of the force at my job last week. As I mentioned before, the company I work for is splitting into 3 companies, and I am winding up with enlarged responsibility within the largest (and most profitable) of the three companies. Then last week there was a widely published rumor that Xerox was going to buy us, canceling the split (which is now administratively in effect and will become permanent October 1). Then late in a week there was another article posted...apparently the rumor got it backwards, we tendered an offer to buy Xerox, but that was rejected so everything is back to the normal chaos of splitting into 3.

Next week the grand tour of my new possessions begins; I'll be visiting a plant in Angola, IN, another in Madison Heights, Michigan (near Detroit), and finally one in Midland, MI (near Saginaw).

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 12:07 pm

Jeff V wrote:Any chance your current employer will be able to accommodate you once they see how awesome you are?

Probably. I've already been introduced to one vendor as the new IT Manager, and I've already been saddled with more stuff than the previous people had on their desks. After some 'getting to know you' time, I don't think it'll be a big deal to get my old title back.

Archinerd · Post by **Archinerd** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 4:59 pm

I suppose I should probably do an update as well.

Starting next month I'll be returning to my previous former employer (the job I left for this most recent one). My previous boss was pretty excited when I contacted him about getting my old job back. I was able to negotiate a comparable salary to my last place and an extra week of vacation. The office environment will be better than when I left a year ago too, the grumpy Partner is now semi-retired and is only in the office 2-3 days a week during the summer. By all accounts (including the remaining 2 partners) things are much nicer now that he's not around. The worst part is going to be the 45-1hr commute, but I did it for 8 years so I know I can do it again.

It's not the career in art I want, but I am using this time off to get that jump started and figure out exactly what it means. Instead of a main focus it's going to be a semi-professional hobby that simmers in the back ground until I get a big break. ...or at the very least pay for my boardgame addiction.
Until then I'll collect a steady paycheck.

So consider this a warning for those of you who periodically saw me roaming around your offices with a tape measure, you'll likely be seeing me again at some point in the future. Sorry in advance for moving your desk from the nice building to the basement of the crap building.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:26 pm

Archinerd wrote: So consider this a warning for those of you who periodically saw me roaming around your offices with a tape measure, you'll likely be seeing me again at some point in the future. Sorry in advance for moving your desk from the nice building to the basement of the crap building.

But you're not going to downsize our cubes 20% again, are you?

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:38 pm

I'm kind of amazed at how much things have changed in the last month. I left my prior job happily, knowing I'd put a small business in a much better place than when I'd arrived and honestly expecting the opportunities to be plentiful. But despite plenty of posted jobs that seemed like excellent fits, and a resume that multiple (knowledgeable) people told me looked solid, I went six months without so much as a phone screen. Except for some recruiters, who did an initial interview and then never contacted me again.

And just when it seemed like a complete change in careers was in order, I got called by my new employer (who liked my resume, so I guess it worked), went through a couple quick rounds of interviews, and am now halfway through my second week at a company that's head-and-shoulders above the others I've worked for in more ways than I can mention. Everybody loves working there, they have scads of employees who have 20+, 30+, and 40+ years with the company, they take good care of their people, and are consistently profitable (especially my department, which is in service and spare parts). The place is very well-organized and uses best practices, but has opportunities for improvement that will allow me to contribute. Everywhere else I've ever worked, I've been handed a team that was broken in some significant way and needed me to fix it. My team here is exactly the opposite - the most important thing I can do for them is not get in their way.

Anyway, I was just pondering the way things had changed for me so quickly and completely and thought I'd remark on it here. How is my career going? Pretty damn good, it would seem.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:47 pm

Long term employees can be awesome resources. Today I visited a location that is newly assigned to me for infrastructure support. My boss (33 years) was there, my counterpart who formerly was responsible for this location (20 years) and his minion who actually supported the site (20 years) were all there. At 6 years, I felt like such a noob.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:11 am

Jeff V wrote:Long term employees can be awesome resources. Today I visited a location that is newly assigned to me for infrastructure support. My boss (33 years) was there, my counterpart who formerly was responsible for this location (20 years) and his minion who actually supported the site (20 years) were all there. At 6 years, I felt like such a noob.

Totally agree. The only downside will be in the next 2-3 years (and beyond) when my old-timers start to retire, including the guy who runs the site I work at, my actual boss, and as much as a third of my team.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Jul 28, 2016 7:30 am

I got some kudos from my superiors this week. A compliment from my former boss, now in a different dept, but working on the merger with me and the PMs. My current boss told me that I'm the only one in our group that he could see taking over the dept after he retires w/I the next two years.

The flip side is that I need to act more managerial and be more of a team player. I've been flaunting the name tag policy and not very discrete in venting my displeasure about certain things, so I need to work on keeping my temper in check and being more rah-rah at the company level.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:16 am

Last week: Hey, we can't get your programmer promoted from junior with a raise because the organization has been losing money

Tuesday: Hey, the organization is doing great, we're projected to hit a major milestone near the end of the year, but the department is overbudget because we're wasting money on dual ISP circuits into almost every location, a problem that's been an issue for over two years.

Thursday: Let's congratulate Marketing on their three new June hires!

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:54 am

It's always those assholes in marketing who get what they want.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Fri Aug 05, 2016 1:40 pm

I know salaried people and time clocks are a sticky thing.

Where I just started three weeks ago, I'm salaried... and expected to punch in and out ... and expected to punch out for lunches. It's my understanding (Maine state laws) that my employer can ask me to punch in and out, but if they ever adjust my pay based on those punches I can make a case for being treated like an hourly employee and they have to pay me for back overtime as well as never being able to call me salaried again. I'm not in that realm right now, but I'm still annoyed.

Maine law also says that they have to "offer" the chance to take a lunch break for shifts over 6 hours, not that they're required for employees to take. I don't like taking lunch breaks because it's a strange interruption in the middle of my day and I find it much easier to just eat a sandwich, salad, or cold pizza at my desk and keep on going without really stopping. I brought the "offer" language to my boss's attention, explained how annoying it was to punch out for lunches I wasn't taking. He shrugged and replied "Don't bother punching in and out for lunch if you're not taking it". Awesome!

One of the office managers caught wind of this and brought it before the leadership meeting, and my boss decided he wasn't prepared to make a company-wide change based on allowing me to ignore lunches - so he rescinded the allowance and wrote me an email telling me I had to punch in and out regardless of whether or not I'm taking lunch. So I'm back to punching out at my desk, working for 30 minutes, and then punching back in. It seems damned foolish.

I suppose my alternative is to give the finger to the system and go sit in the field out back for 30 minutes with my phone off, practicing astral projection or something... but it still feels weird and I don't like it. I'd rather just keep going and not break concentration or lose my train of thought.

*Edit: I suppose I'm also losing 2.5 hours of flexible time each week that I might use during that week to run an errand or something - and now I'll get docked PTO instead if I punch out an hour early one day to get to an appointment. My last job didn't care - no time clocks at all, take up to half a day off and don't even ask, they assumed you were salaried and putting in 40 regardless of the time you spent planted at the desk.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Fri Aug 05, 2016 2:49 pm

By making you clock out, if ever an inquiry forced them to classify you as hourly and pay OT, those 2.5 hours per week would not be counted because there is a record of you ostensibly not working. The best course in your current situation, it seems, is to not be working during that time.

Not only have I never been asked to use a time clock when working as a salaried employee, I think it was the early 90's since I last had to use one as an hourly employee. The only exception was when I worked for the hospital -- had a time card, did not punch a clock though, just wrote 40 hours on it and turned it in. Eventually this was replaced with a more modern online timekeeping system.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:02 pm

Jeff V wrote:Not only have I never been asked to use a time clock when working as a salaried employee, I think it was the early 90's since I last had to use one as an hourly employee. The only exception was when I worked for the hospital -- had a time card, did not punch a clock though, just wrote 40 hours on it and turned it in. Eventually this was replaced with a more modern online timekeeping system.

I think companies in Maine are either slow or backwards in adopting better treatment of salaried people. This is the second job I've had as a salaried person (I've had 3) where I had to clock in and out. Having had a job with an HR Director who was on the ball and knew it was a slippery place to sit was awesome, other places lacked that resource. Right now "HR Dept" is one of five hats the CFO is wearing, and he's just winging it.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:11 pm

Just finished my third interview with a small company. First was with the HR recruiter. Second was with the hiring manager. This was with the VP over the organization (the hiring manager's boss). So far seems to be going well. I'm liking what I hear. And they seem to be happy with me.

One more to go (Sr. VP)...

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:12 pm

Was just in one of our regular compliance meetings. The lawyer noted that this December (1st or 31st, can't remember), the federal cutoff for exempt employees goes from ~$27K to ~$43K, IIRtNC.

So, for example, all those exempt managers at Dunkin Donuts making $28K will either have to get paid their 60 hours of OT or get a pay increase to over $43K so they can be exempt.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:15 pm

Just looked, it's $23K and $47K actually. So an even bigger swing.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:15 pm

I have a recently promoted sysadmin that's in that boat.

Paingod wrote:Right now "HR Dept" is one of five hats the CFO is wearing, and he's just winging it.

Employment law is, to me, second only to financial compliance in terms of a minefield of laws and regulation. I would no more want to work for a company that's 'winging it' on HR than I would that's doing the same for their accounting needs.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:17 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:Was just in one of our regular compliance meetings. The lawyer noted that this December (1st or 31st, can't remember), the federal cutoff for exempt employees goes from ~$27K to ~$43K, IIRtNC.

So, for example, all those exempt managers at Dunkin Donuts making $28K will either have to get paid their 60 hours of OT or get a pay increase to over $43K so they can be exempt.

I think I noted this a while back in R&P. I think it's a good thing. Anyone working more than 40 hours a week, basically giving their life to work, should be entitled to a living wage. I don't believe minimum wage should provide you with a minimal living wage but I do believe full time work should.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:23 pm

My workload has increased significantly since a co-worker left. So when my review came around I asked for a 15% increase, hoping to settle for 10%. Went through at 15% with almost no questions asked!

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:31 pm

Nice!

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:32 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Last week: Hey, we can't get your programmer promoted from junior with a raise because the organization has been losing money

Tuesday: Hey, the organization is doing great, we're projected to hit a major milestone near the end of the year, but the department is overbudget because we're wasting money on dual ISP circuits into almost every location, a problem that's been an issue for over two years.

Thursday: Let's congratulate Marketing on their three new June hires!

My office is now 20% larger than and probably 50% more complex than it was before 2008 clusterfuck when they let my counterpart go due to company wide cutbacks.

If it does not get us new business, our philosophy seems to be stretch it until it breaks.

So now not only do I have more work than I know what to do with, I have no budget to grow my infrastructure to the needs of the office, giving me even more work and nastygrams for my failure to plan.

I'm too tired to start over. I so wish I weren't.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Fri Aug 05, 2016 3:35 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:Just looked, it's $23K and $47K actually. So an even bigger swing.

Bravo. I was an exploited restaurant manager early in my career, earning a whopping $200 per week salary while normally working in excess of 80 hours. My waitresses had the best deal in that joint -- they got minimum wage plus tips.

ericb · Post by **ericb** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:29 am

Paingod wrote:I know salaried people and time clocks are a sticky thing.

<snippy>

One of the office managers caught wind of this and brought it before the leadership meeting, and my boss decided he wasn't prepared to make a company-wide change based on allowing me to ignore lunches - so he rescinded the allowance and wrote me an email telling me I had to punch in and out regardless of whether or not I'm taking lunch. So I'm back to punching out at my desk, working for 30 minutes, and then punching back in. It seems damned foolish.

I suppose my alternative is to give the finger to the system and go sit in the field out back for 30 minutes with my phone off, practicing astral projection or something... but it still feels weird and I don't like it. I'd rather just keep going and not break concentration or lose my train of thought.

Where I work this would be considered time card fraud and I would be fired. I absolutely can not, with no exceptions, work off the clock. Of course I'm salary but I do have to account for every hour on multiple time sheets and I'm also locked at a firm 40 hours with OT requiring written approval. Best IT job in terms of hours I've ever had.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:46 am

Apparently in California the law says you can do anything you want during your lunch hour, including work if that's what you want. Your employer can't force you to work though.

I've been clocking in and out as a salaried employee for a few years now. They tell us it is so they can prove we are working full time for Obamacare and other reasons. If travelling I can skip lunch, as long as I show a minimum of 8 hours a day, five days a week. At first it was a bit irritating, but you get used to it like anything else. The result has been that I actually work fewer hours since now when that five o'clock whistle blows I am on that time clock like white on rice.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:19 am

I have to punch for the first time in like 20 years but I only have to punch once and it can be at any time of day. It's just a binary "were you here today or not?" punch and it's universal for all salaried employees.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:33 am

LawBeefaroni wrote:I have to punch for the first time in like 20 years but I only have to punch once and it can be at any time of day. It's just a binary "were you here today or not?" punch and it's universal for all salaried employees.

If you are a manager or higher, no punch, all other Salary folks have to punch once a day where I work.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:52 am

RMC wrote:
LawBeefaroni wrote:I have to punch for the first time in like 20 years but I only have to punch once and it can be at any time of day. It's just a binary "were you here today or not?" punch and it's universal for all salaried employees.
If you are a manager or higher, no punch, all other Salary folks have to punch once a day where I work.

I know it goes up as high as VP. Don't know if it goes higher or not. It's weird but I guess it's kind of tradition so...I punch.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 10:57 am

Salary enter project time and time off only.

dfs · Post by **dfs** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:30 am

Haven't seen a timeclock since I was working hourly.

"New place" does have a computerized time tracking service with a web interface, but that's really a billing service. As long as I have 40 hours a week in that system, my corporate masters are happy. If I have more than that in the system, they are happier, but I get nothing. My clients don't care as long as their work gets finished in a timely way. From their point of view the money contracted to me is already spent.

Interestingly the billing service is different than the time tracking service for leave. There are two of those. One has a web interface, the other one involves me printout out, signing and scaning a pdf that I then send to my boss who then prints out, signs and scans it and sends it back to me and off to his boss. Hell of a way to run a railroad.

corrected "As long as I have 80 hours a week in that system,..." to a correct number.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:33 am

Well, at least you have 88 hours a week to eat and sleep.

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:22 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:Well, at least you have 88 hours a week to eat and sleep.

Seriously. I put in more than 40 because I don't mind fitting in extra and looking a little better. My employers for over a decade have only cared that I'm doing my 40 and let me balance my time if I want by leaving early or coming in late if I worked extra during the week. When I was single and 20, I'd regularly do 60 hour weeks because I liked the overtime pay. As a salaried person, I'd be out the door in a heartbeat if my employer expected me to do 50+ every week, let alone 80+, unless I was making an intense amount of cash that would have to scale accordingly.

I put a hefty value on my personal time, though, and I know not everyone does.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:25 pm

Paingod wrote:I put a hefty value on my personal time, though, and I know not everyone does.

I had to have a running battle with my CIO to justify that I was able to much better manage my overall stress levels by taking 30 minutes for lunch over his desire that everyone take 60. Given that my day from alarm to work to home already accounts for 11.5 hours of my day, I didn't want to spend another half hour either roaming around the area or staring at the breakroom clock, waiting to go back to work.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:26 pm

Paingod wrote: I put a hefty value on my personal time, though, and I know not everyone does.

Yep, done that early in my career, and never again without being massively compensated.

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 4:37 pm

My last position instituted punches. Except they wanted us to punch in using a web app... after our computers booted up. Then they gave us crappy ass laptops that would take 8-10 minutes to boot up. So most of us used the phone to clock in and clock out. They got pretty pissy about that. But that didn't stop me. I get pissy about working without pay.

I have my final (I think) interview today for a new job. With the Senior VP. I think that the decision has probably been made, as long as I don't screw up. What I don't know (and really have no idea what to expect), is what the compensation package will look like.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:54 pm

I can clock in and out remotely using my laptop, but I had to downgrade to an old version of java for the website to work. Now that's pathetic.

Matrix · Post by **Matrix** » Tue Aug 09, 2016 11:02 am

Hmm, lets see, since my coaching business died (thanks apps) few years ago, since then i have been doing a lot of new stuff. My gift venture (eCommerce store) has had it rough patches first year, but we are doing much better now. Most money still come from digital consultancy, and new project in the works of launching media / news company which to go full force in a few month.
Overall i feel pretty good about it. Though it was a harder transition for a while, with coaching business literally disappearing into thin air, and new businesses were still in creation stages and finding its legs over a last few month.