Smoove_B wrote:When does quarantine not really mean quarantine? When you're a teacher in Florida and declared an essential worker by the school state.
“We have received inquiries about the status of the six teachers at South Fork and their status as essential workers. The teachers will continue to report to campus to livestream lessons as long as they are not experiencing any symptoms of illness. They will follow all CDC guidelines related to essential workers: temperature checks upon arrival, wearing a mask at all times and maintaining social distance from others at all times. They will livestream lessons alone in their classrooms to the students who have transitioned to remote learning, as well as the students on their other class rosters who were not part of the quarantine protocol and will still be attending school in person.
Also, this is not how quarantine works (in case anyone wasn't clear).
EDIT: Fret, forgive me
This is the school district where the superintendent compares opening up schools to a Navy Seal mission.
”Martin County Superintendent Laurie Gaylord told me she viewed reopening her schools as a mission akin to a Navy SEAL operation,” DeSantis said. “Just as the SEALs surmounted obstacles to bring Osama bin Laden to justice, so too would the Martin County School system find a way to provide parents with a meaningful choice of in-person instruction or continued distance learning.”
As a reminder, school in Martin County started on Tuesday. So how did the first week go?
Fall semester classes at Oklahoma State University began Monday with an entire sorority under quarantine after 23 members test positive for the coronavirus.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:29 pm
by Smoove_B
Colleges indeed are starting to implode (as predicted) and up next are K-12 schools. Good thing we're monitoring everything:
Coronavirus cases are already surfacing in K-12 schools that have reopened, but the federal government is not tracking these outbreaks, and some states are not publicly reporting them, making it more difficult to determine how the virus is spreading, experts say.
Scores of students and staff members have been quarantined because of potential COVID-19 exposure in Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi and Indiana, among other states.
But there is no official national tally of school-linked COVID-19 cases, and some states are not reporting how many outbreaks have occurred or how many students and staff members have been infected. Instead, they are leaving it up to local officials to decide which information to make public and which information to share more narrowly with affected students and families. Researchers say the absence of a comprehensive accounting is hampering efforts to identify which safety practices can best prevent cases in schools from spreading.
Weeeeeeeeeee
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:40 pm
by Daehawk
Some school place was threatening to fine teachers who refused to teach $10,000. Its in their contract. Ya good luck with that. I dont think COVID was part of the world when they signed contracts. Teach and die or be fined.....ya that wont go over well.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:19 pm
by Alefroth
I'm skeptical there was anything like that in their contract. Do you have the story?
Some Kansas districts contemplating a $1K fine for teachers refusing to return to work. In addition:
In the Turner school district, the fines rise to $1,500 after Aug. 1. Olathe doesn’t assess so-called “liquidated damages” against resigning teachers. But in Spring Hill, liquidated damages climb to a staggering $5,000 after Aug. 15.
Haven't seen anything in the 10K range, no.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:50 pm
by Daehawk
Alefroth wrote: Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:19 pm
I'm skeptical there was anything like that in their contract. Do you have the story?
Kansas teachers who quit because they don’t feel safe returning to teaching in-person classes during the coronavirus pandemic might have to pay their school districts up to $10,000 for backing out of their contracts.
Kansas teachers who quit because they don’t feel safe returning to teaching in-person classes during the coronavirus pandemic might have to pay their school districts up to $10,000 for backing out of their contracts.
"Up to $10,000" probably means the amount is variable based on their salary and/or their individual contact. Guessing they the majority aren't at the max. Still not good though.
“Do you see what’s happening in New Zealand? They beat it, they beat it, it was like front-page news because they wanted to show me something,” the US president said at a campaign rally in Mankato, Minnesota.
Big surge in New Zealand, you know it’s terrible, we don’t want that, but this is an invisible enemy that should never have been let to come to Europe and the rest of the world by China.
Kansas teachers who quit because they don’t feel safe returning to teaching in-person classes during the coronavirus pandemic might have to pay their school districts up to $10,000 for backing out of their contracts.
"Up to $10,000" probably means the amount is variable based on their salary and/or their individual contact. Guessing they the majority aren't at the max. Still not good though.
Also...Kansas.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:25 pm
by Freyland
I thought he was going to reference the election delays in New Zealand, when he said "she wanted to show me something".
Kansas teachers who quit because they don’t feel safe returning to teaching in-person classes during the coronavirus pandemic might have to pay their school districts up to $10,000 for backing out of their contracts.
New Zealand Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern says she is delaying the country's parliamentary election by four weeks to October 17 after the reemergence of Covid-19 in the country last week.
...
The general election was due to take place on September 19, with Parliament rising on August 6 and campaigning had already begun before the lockdowns were introduced.
But at a live-streamed media conference Monday, Ardern said it was clear "the reemergence of Covid in Auckland at the beginning of the formal campaign period has been cause for concern."
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:20 am
by El Guapo
So, my kids' school is planning on modified in-person learning this September with a remote option (which would basically consist of Zooming into the in-person classroom learning). So I now get to decide whether the kids' go in-person or not. The area (Suffolk County) does meet guidelines from the Harvard Global Health Institute on school reopening for elementary and middle schools. The school is following best practices for school reopenings that I can find, including: (1) mandatory masks; (2) requirement for kids to stay home if feeling unwell; (4) mandatory social distancing + small learning "cohorts"; (5) regular sanitizing; (6) upgraded ventilation system; (7) in-classroom eating (instead of cafeteria); (8) as much outdoors as possible.
Basically, I think if any school reopening can be done safely, this is probably the way to do it. The question is whether any school reopening can be done safely. Seems like some schools in low prevalence parts of Europe have reopened without too much trouble.
“Do you see what’s happening in New Zealand? They beat it, they beat it, it was like front-page news because they wanted to show me something,” the US president said at a campaign rally in Mankato, Minnesota.
Big surge in New Zealand, you know it’s terrible, we don’t want that, but this is an invisible enemy that should never have been let to come to Europe and the rest of the world by China.
To be fair to the Mancheeto, someone probably told him that New Zealand was up like 1000% over their last numbers. They just didn't tell him that meant "10" ... and yeah, it's repugnant to try and tout that as some kind of failure to make yourself look good when you've got 4200% more than their "10" in one day and you have no end in sight.
And while they were given gloves, surgical masks, and alcohol hand sanitizer, it took only two weeks for the first workers to develop symptoms. The program was suspended, and all the workers were tested for the virus. Of the 62 involved, a dozen had been infected. Collectively, they had visited 5,880 homes and come in contact with a total of 222 people who ultimately tested positive for the virus. Fortunately, the partitions in their transport worked, and none of their drivers ended up infected.
When the program was restarted, an additional form of protection was put in place: a clear plastic face shield. The health workers were also given ethanol to clean their masks between home visits. With those measures in place, the workers visited an additional 18,228 homes, in which 2,682 people eventually tested positive for the virus.
There were zero infections among the healthcare workers.
It's entirely possible that the initial infection heightened the sense of caution the workers took when the program restarted. But it's not clear whether any behavioral changes could be maintained over the course of 18,000 home visits. Thus, the face shields are likely what provided the critical difference.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:32 am
by LawBeefaroni
Or ethanol.
The problem with on-the-fly QI projects vs. controlled studies is that while the former usually leads to better outcomes more quickly, you don't know exactly what led to the better outcomes so it's more difficult to replicate. Which usually isn't a problem if you're trying to improve one system.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:34 am
by stessier
There would be nothing to wipe down with ethanol without the face shield. But yeah, it's likely some combination of factors.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:34 am
by Skinypupy
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:51 am
by LawBeefaroni
stessier wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:34 am
There would be nothing to wipe down with ethanol without the face shield. But yeah, it's likely some combination of factors.
Masks, right?
The health workers were also given ethanol to clean their masks between home visits.
stessier wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:34 am
There would be nothing to wipe down with ethanol without the face shield. But yeah, it's likely some combination of factors.
Masks, right?
The health workers were also given ethanol to clean their masks between home visits.
My bad, I read that as shields because I couldn't imagine soaking a mask in ethanol and then using it again. But you're right, that's what it says.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:09 am
by Zaxxon
That is... an odd choice. Never heard of soaking a mask in ethanol before.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:12 am
by stessier
Zaxxon wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 10:09 am
That is... an odd choice. Never heard of soaking a mask in ethanol before.
It doesn't say soak - it just says clean. I'm assuming they are cloth masks. I guess you could just wipe the outside of a cloth mask with ethanol. I can't imagine that working without soaking, though.
A study of the melt-blown filters commonly used in N95 masks and the nanofiber filters produced by electrospinning found that just by spraying ethanol three or more times on the two materials or dipping them in the ethanol solution for more than five minutes effectively inhibit pathogens that can remain inside the mask filter.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:09 am
by Smoove_B
El Guapo wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:20 amSooo...maybe? I don't know.
I'm going to tell you a secret, one that likely provides insight to my current headspace.
Organizations can create amazing plans on how they're going to reduce risk associated with COVID. These plans can be fully detailed and technically sound, addressing all areas of concern.
Organizations cannot control or address what the people of said organization are doing when they're not there.
Everything (*everything*) hinges on individual behavior outside the organization.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:34 am
by Paingod
Smoove_B wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:09 amOrganizations can create amazing plans on how they're going to reduce risk associated with COVID. These plans can be fully detailed and technically sound, addressing all areas of concern.
Organizations cannot control or address what the people of said organization are doing when they're not there.
Everything (*everything*) hinges on individual behavior outside the organization.
I work in a medical arena, though one of the sidelines that people with good vision may think is less necessary. We recently got hit with a policy update from the CDC requiring any staff member that leaves the state and travels anywhere except the 5 approved states (places roughly equal to or better than our rate of infection) to self-quarantine for 14 days or get a COVID test when they come back. Given that the test can take days, it's still more lost time.
When our Director of Operations let them know that she had preexisting plans to leave to go to an unapproved state to drop her daughter off at college, the doctors running the business advised that she didn't say that and they never heard it.
I don't think it's fair that organizations can dictate what people do off the clock but I also think the rules are more fair than extra dead people. I expect she'll take all reasonable precautions when she goes. I just hope it works.
Smoove_B wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:09 amOrganizations can create amazing plans on how they're going to reduce risk associated with COVID. These plans can be fully detailed and technically sound, addressing all areas of concern.
Organizations cannot control or address what the people of said organization are doing when they're not there.
Everything (*everything*) hinges on individual behavior outside the organization.
I work in a medical arena, though one of the sidelines that people with good vision may think is less necessary. We recently got hit with a policy update from the CDC requiring any staff member that leaves the state and travels anywhere except the 5 approved states (places roughly equal to or better than our rate of infection) to self-quarantine for 14 days or get a COVID test when they come back. Given that the test can take days, it's still more lost time.
When our Director of Operations let them know that she had preexisting plans to leave to go to an unapproved state to drop her daughter off at college, the doctors running the business advised that she didn't say that and they never heard it.
I don't think it's fair that organizations can dictate what people do off the clock but I also think the rules are more fair than extra dead people. I expect she'll take all reasonable precautions when she goes. I just hope it works.
We have the same policy (City mandate since early July). 14 days hasn't been an issue since tests take a day or two if you're appropriately high up the ladder.
I still cancelled a trip to a quarantine state. I know others who have made several trips and just have to WFH until the tests comeback.
I'm not aware of anyone that took the don't ask/don't tell approach.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:56 am
by ImLawBoy
Paingod wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:34 am
When our Director of Operations let them know that she had preexisting plans to leave to go to an unapproved state to drop her daughter off at college, the doctors running the business advised that she didn't say that and they never heard it.
Will they take the same approach when she has to go back and pick her daughter up again after two weeks?
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:10 pm
by LordMortis
Paingod wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:34 am
When our Director of Operations let them know that she had preexisting plans to leave to go to an unapproved state to drop her daughter off at college, the doctors running the business advised that she didn't say that and they never heard it.
That's fucked up. I'd be squirming if I were aware of this and asked to be on site as essential personnel.
I don't think it's fair that organizations can dictate what people do off the clock but I also think the rules are more fair than extra dead people. I expect she'll take all reasonable precautions when she goes. I just hope it works.
There are plenty of things my company has dictated I can't do as those actions off the clock affect what happens on the clock. I've never thought it unfair. I have thought it unfair that it (and most companies) treat different personnel differently. It took me a long time to come to peace with the idea that different people make different arrangements with the company and that this is none of my business beyond if I don't like it, I should move on.
El Guapo wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:20 amSooo...maybe? I don't know.
I'm going to tell you a secret, one that likely provides insight to my current headspace.
Organizations can create amazing plans on how they're going to reduce risk associated with COVID. These plans can be fully detailed and technically sound, addressing all areas of concern.
Organizations cannot control or address what the people of said organization are doing when they're not there.
Everything (*everything*) hinges on individual behavior outside the organization.
You could easily replace pandemic with anything risk related. People don't understand risk.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:34 pm
by Smoove_B
malchior wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:20 pm
You could easily replace pandemic with anything risk related. People don't understand risk.
Risk is part of the equation. The bigger issue is recognizing/acknowledging that for COVID-19 the decisions I make as an individual (or for my family) have potential impact on the members of my community.
It's one thing to not give a crap about my own health. It's another when my lack of self-care ripples out and potentially impacts the health of others.
There isn't a plan I can create or review that will in any way address complete disregard for community health.
El Guapo wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 12:20 amSooo...maybe? I don't know.
I'm going to tell you a secret, one that likely provides insight to my current headspace.
Organizations can create amazing plans on how they're going to reduce risk associated with COVID. These plans can be fully detailed and technically sound, addressing all areas of concern.
Organizations cannot control or address what the people of said organization are doing when they're not there.
Everything (*everything*) hinges on individual behavior outside the organization.
You could easily replace pandemic with anything risk related. People don't understand risk.
Correct. We're not hardwired well to grasp risk outside the more straightforward stuff. I wrote a paper in college about it - it was fascinating and scary. And that is exponentially increased in the modern world and its complexity. Pandemic just added a bonus high risk category. That's why I get so frustrated with so much of the current government - one of their roles should be to help guide the average person as to what risk factors are relevant and what they actually mean. Instead, tens of thousands of mixed messages from thousands of different sources. Grrr.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:42 pm
by LawBeefaroni
Malificent wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:35 pm
That's why I get so frustrated with so much of the current government - one of their roles should be to help guide the average person as to what risk factors are relevant and what they actually mean. Instead, tens of thousands of mixed messages from thousands of different sources. Grrr.
Misunderstanding of risk allows governments to rule by fear. The world's greatest fascists came to power spreading disproportionate fear of risk. Trillions have been made on false or overstated risks.
Malificent wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:35 pm
That's why I get so frustrated with so much of the current government - one of their roles should be to help guide the average person as to what risk factors are relevant and what they actually mean. Instead, tens of thousands of mixed messages from thousands of different sources. Grrr.
Misunderstanding of risk allows governments to rule by fear. The world's greatest fascists came to power spreading disproportionate fear of risk. Trillions have been made on false or overstated risks.
The opposite is true too. My bread is buttered by the practice of charging very high rates -- in line with market btw -- responding to cyber incidents and building out new detect and respond programs cleaning up the wreckage of the big companies you hear about in the press. Every time we walk in the soon-to-be-fired CISO was taking the fall for CEOs who didn't understand the risk or couldn't valuate it properly.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:55 pm
by Smoove_B
Ed Yong and the Atlantic, continuing to deliver. This time on the COVID-19 long-haulers:
She has lived through one month of hand tremors, three of fever, and four of night sweats. When we spoke on day 150, she was on her fifth month of gastrointestinal problems and severe morning nausea. She still has extreme fatigue, bulging veins, excessive bruising, an erratic heartbeat, short-term memory loss, gynecological problems, sensitivity to light and sounds, and brain fog. Even writing an email can be hard, she told me, “because the words I think I’m writing are not the words coming out.” She wakes up gasping for air twice a month. It still hurts to inhale.
...
Several studies have found that most COVID-19 patients produce antibodies that recognize the new coronavirus, and that these molecules endure for months. Their presence should confirm whether a long-hauler was indeed infected. But there’s a catch: Most existing antibody studies focused on either hospitalized patients or those with mild symptoms and swift recoveries. By contrast, Putrino told me that in his survey of 1,400 long-haulers, two-thirds of those who have had antibody tests got negative results, even though their symptoms were consistent with COVID-19. Nichols, for example, tested negative for antibodies after twice testing positive for the coronavirus itself. “Just because you’re negative for antibodies doesn’t mean you didn’t have COVID-19,” Putrino said.
...
Throughout the pandemic, systemic failures have been portrayed as personal ones. Many people ignored catastrophic governmental choices that allowed the coronavirus to spread unchecked, and instead castigated individuals for going to beaches or wearing masks incorrectly. So, too, with recovery. The act of getting better is frequently framed as a battle between person and pathogen, ignoring everything else that sways the outcome of that conflict—the disregard from doctors and the sympathy from strangers, the choices of policy makers and the narratives of journalists. Nothing about COVID-19 exists in a social vacuum. If people are to recover, “you have to create the conditions in which they can recover,” Copeland, the sport psychologist from Sheffield Hallam, says.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 6:52 pm
by Smoove_B
Coronavirus case at Sturgis Motorcycle Rally prompts warning from health department:
A person who visited a bar during the Sturgis Motorcycle Rally has tested positive for the coronavirus, health officials in South Dakota said.
The person visited One-Eyed Jack's Saloon in Sturgis between noon and 5:30 p.m. on Tuesday, Aug. 11 "while able to transmit the virus to others," according to a news release by the state's Department of Health.
"Due to the risk of exposure, individuals that visited the business during the specified dates and times should monitor for symptoms for 14 days after they visited," the health department said.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2020 7:42 pm
by hitbyambulance
Smoove_B wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 1:55 pm
Ed Yong and the Atlantic, continuing to deliver. This time on the COVID-19 long-haulers:
this applies to soooo many things. look at post-war soldiers in popular conception - you have those returned home and those who didn't. permanent disabilities? not even mentioned.
it's not compatible with the binary black/white mindset.
