Trump's Full Court Press on Tax Reform

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:07 am

Kraken wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:13 am
Smoove_B wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:18 pm The masks - they are completely off:

“I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing,” [Senator] Grassley said, “as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”
Jesus H. Christ Iowa. This is your voice?
The man is right. Instead of seeing a movie next month, I'm investing $22 in a coal mine.

Not me man. Don't you know how much women you get for that many darn pennies??

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:53 am

Smoove_B wrote: Sun Dec 03, 2017 11:18 pm The masks - they are completely off:

“I think not having the estate tax recognizes the people that are investing,” [Senator] Grassley said, “as opposed to those that are just spending every darn penny they have, whether it’s on booze or women or movies.”
Jesus H. Christ Iowa. This is your voice?

Does he understand that the economy is based on consumer spending? I mean, America is the biggest consumer market in the world.

He wants everyone to stop spending their money and invest in t-bills?

Can someone kick him in the nuts?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 8:06 am

What's more interesting is how disconnected people like him are from what is and could be happening. Maybe the poor spend all their money but that is because they don't have any money. And what they spend it on keeps them content which is far better than what'll happen to these plutocrats if the poor finally figured out how badly they were being screwed.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:58 pm

It is sounding a little like someone forgot to cross out some stuff in the hastily written and passed bill.

Edit: Details on the mess up - they accidentally killed a bunch of tax breaks for their donors. HILARIOUS.

https://twitter.com/NormOrnstein/status ... 2664614913

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:02 pm

If only there was some way to pass major legislation that didn't involve hand-writing changes in the margins and rushing it through at 2am before anyone has a chance to actually read it. If only.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:08 pm

The irony of passing a bill no one could read first, and having the GOP royally screw up by not reading it, is delicious.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:15 pm

Except that the screw up likely means keeping some of the more onerous House tax rules like the tax on grad student tuition waivers.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:23 pm

Yes, that sucks. But it means another vote in the Senate rather than just pushing back to the less-tight House to pass the existing Senate Bill.

And that is supremely embarrassing.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:23 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Mon Dec 04, 2017 9:23 pm And that is supremely embarrassing.

It's only embarrassing if these guys had any sense of shame. They are constantly displaying that they don't.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:44 am

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 8:15 am

I wonder if this helps the Dreamers indirectly. Flake conditioned support allegedly for DACA support. If they break their word to him, then Collins could also get a second bite at saying she doesn't believe in the promises made to her about ACA premium support.

I don't know if that'll play out but I am curious how this week will go. Funding sounds like it has to be the priority but the paymasters are pissed at their incompetence. What to do?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Dec 05, 2017 4:59 pm

National Association of Realtors report says tax bill will cause steep housing price drops. The worst state is of course NJ. It is predicted to be a drop of up to 20% here. Considering the source I wonder how juiced up it is but it does seem likely that prices will drop as cost of ownership will likely go up quite a bit.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:08 pm

Wait, I thought Republicans wanted to save king coal?

Coal CEO Robert Murray warns that if the Senate version of tax reform is enacted by President Trump he’ll be destroying thousands of coal mining jobs in the process.

“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist. It wipes us out,” Murray told CNNMoney in an interview on Tuesday.

Murray, a fierce supporter of Trump’s efforts to revive coal, condemned the Senate bill as a “mockery” that would inflict a devastating tax hike on beleaguered coal mining firms as well as other capital-intensive companies.

Octavious · Post by **Octavious** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:12 pm

Who knew that writing a tax plan at the last second would end up with horrible mistakes. Can't wait to see what else they screwed up.

Enough · Post by **Enough** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:17 pm

Octavious wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 3:12 pm Who knew that writing a tax plan at the last second would end up with horrible mistakes. Can't wait to see what else they screwed up.

I keep hearing comparisons about how this bill was rushed like Obamacare and thus is expected to have all sorts of errors and unintended effects. But then I think about how Obamacare had 79 hearings and this massive tax overhaul with equally broad implications had exactly a big fat 0. This tax bill is light years worse.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:18 pm

Polls are showing this bill is deeply unpopular. It's just bizarre how the GOP thinks their re-election hinges on passing the most unpopular legislation imaginable. It's almost as if they are living in their own reality....

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:23 pm

YellowKing wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:18 pm Polls are showing this bill is deeply unpopular. It's just bizarre how the GOP thinks their re-election hinges on passing the most unpopular legislation imaginable. It's almost as if they are living in their own reality....

It's ok though - Paul Ryan is working on talking Trump into slashing Medicare next year. *That* will definitely fix the GOP's unpopularity.

Maybe the theory is that like how multiplying two negative numbers gets a positive number, that if they keep doing crazy unpopular things that it'll eventually wrap around and they'll be super popular.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:28 pm

The cynic in me thinks they don't care and more just want party loyalty--hence the talk about them punishing Freylinghuysen for not selling out his constituents. They will see what happens with the mid-terms and see how the gerrymander/suppression wall holds up. If their majorities survive the wave then they'll really let loose next year up until the next Presidential campaign kicks off.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:53 pm

malchior wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:28 pm The cynic in me thinks they don't care and more just want party loyalty--hence the talk about them punishing Freylinghuysen for not selling out his constituents. They will see what happens with the mid-terms and see how the gerrymander/suppression wall holds up. If their majorities survive the wave then they'll really let loose next year up until the next Presidential campaign kicks off.

Did Freylinghuysen vote no?

Edit: Just saw that he did, and they want to punish him for it. How dare he represent his constituents over Paul Ryan's wishes?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 6:17 pm

RunningMn9 wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:53 pm
malchior wrote: Wed Dec 06, 2017 5:28 pm The cynic in me thinks they don't care and more just want party loyalty--hence the talk about them punishing Freylinghuysen for not selling out his constituents. They will see what happens with the mid-terms and see how the gerrymander/suppression wall holds up. If their majorities survive the wave then they'll really let loose next year up until the next Presidential campaign kicks off.
Did Freylinghuysen vote no?

He did - only Macarthur voted yes in NJ. Ryan was apparently talking about punishing him by taking away his committee chair.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:43 pm

We all inherently know this, but god damn if it isn't infuriating when they keep saying it.

House Speaker Paul D. Ryan (R-Wis.) said Wednesday that congressional Republicans will aim next year to reduce spending on both federal health care and anti-poverty programs, citing the need to reduce America's deficit.

“We're going to have to get back next year at entitlement reform, which is how you tackle the debt and the deficit,” Ryan said during an appearance on Ross Kaminsky's talk radio show. "... Frankly, it's the health care entitlements that are the big drivers of our debt, so we spend more time on the health care entitlements — because that's really where the problem lies, fiscally speaking.”

Ryan said that he believes he has begun convincing President Trump in their private conversations about the need to rein in Medicare, the federal health program that primarily insures the elderly. As a candidate, Trump vowed not to cut spending on Social Security, Medicare, or Medicaid. (Ryan also suggested congressional Republicans were unlikely to try changing Social Security, because the rules of the Senate forbid changes to the program through reconciliation — the procedure the Senate can use to pass legislation with only 50 votes.)

If you're so concerned about the debt, why did you just pass a tax bill that will significantly increase it?

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:50 pm

What a wonderful and courageous man. It likely won't make a difference on Flake's vote but good for him:

https://twitter.com/lizjaff/status/938997639437152256

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:53 pm

Solid way to try to get the voice of reason heard. Also he gets a

from me for the excellent hash tag.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Sat Dec 09, 2017 2:11 pm

The only problem is that Flake doesn't appear to be buying the pitch.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:33 pm

Ann Coulter has a sad.

https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/9 ... 5467871232

We singles live empty lives of quiet desperation and will die alone. Now Rubio is demanding that we also fund happy families with children who fill their days with joy.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:37 pm

Rubio is such a pathetic figure at this point that no one is taking his threats to vote no seriously.

Whenever Rubio temporarily pops his head up and pretends to have a spine like this, I think back to this spot on Jonathan Chait tweet during the ACA repeal bill process this summer:

https://twitter.com/jonathanchait/statu ... 7887162368

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:45 pm

pr0ner wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:33 pm Ann Coulter has a sad.

We singles live empty lives of quiet desperation and will die alone. Now Rubio is demanding that we also fund happy families with children who fill their days with joy.

Finally some good news. Sorry for the rest of you singles, but knowing Ann is suffering makes it all worthwhile.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:56 pm

pr0ner wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:33 pm Ann Coulter has a sad.

https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/9 ... 5467871232

We singles live empty lives of quiet desperation and will die alone. Now Rubio is demanding that we also fund happy families with children who fill their days with joy.

Psst, Ann...

Being single isn't the reason that you're living an empty life of not-so-quiet-as-we-might-wish desperation. It's just another symptom.

But if it makes you feel better, Little Marco doesn't care about joyful family lives for the masses. He just wants a domestic source of labor.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:26 pm

And new tax payers.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 4:54 pm

It sounds like Corker's in too. Which means they'll pass it even with Collins voting no, so she got nothing. If only we had another Democratic senator somewhere...

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:16 pm

You know it's awesome legislation when they release it at 5:30 pm on Friday.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 7:49 pm

The Conference Report explaining the bills is 570 pages. This dropped the weekend before Christmas/during Hanukkah and while Americans are distracted with the new Star Wars movie.

The Aristocrats!

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:40 pm

Is it at least typed this time?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 2:12 pm

...

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:12 pm

You're late to the party with that one!

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:46 pm

https://twitter.com/foxandfriends/statu ... 1891084290

It's been awhile since I took U.S. history, but this is why the 30s were boom years, right?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:48 pm

El Guapo wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:46 pmIt's been awhile since I took U.S. history, but this is why the 30s were boom years, right?

It's not like there is a hypothesis that tax cuts at the top cause asset bubbles. The idea is unproven due to small sample size but guess we'll see. Who doesn't love natural experiments?

gbasden · Post by **gbasden** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:56 am

malchior wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:48 pm
El Guapo wrote: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:46 pmIt's been awhile since I took U.S. history, but this is why the 30s were boom years, right?
It's not like there is a hypothesis that tax cuts at the top cause asset bubbles. The idea is unproven due to small sample size but guess we'll see. Who doesn't love natural experiments?

The only problem is that the people implementing the tax cuts don't live in a fact based world. Thus, there are no such things as experiments. There is only truthiness and orthodoxy.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:17 am

Cornyn suggests it’s Dems’ fault the GOP tax plan isn’t ‘better’

“Well, our Democratic colleagues simply refused to participate in the process. We probably could have made it better if they had.”
It’s a curious message. As Republicans get ready to approve their only meaningful legislative accomplishment of the year, it’s a bit jarring to hear the #2 GOP senator already making excuses for why his party’s bill isn’t “better.”

But it’s even more bizarre that Cornyn is blaming Democrats for the bill’s shortcomings. Indeed, when George Stephanopoulos asked why it was necessary to add this controversial provision in the final package, the Texas Republican again said, “Well, we were working very hard. It was a very intense process. As I said, the Democrats refused to participate.”

Moments later, in the same interview, Cornyn once again insisted, “As I said, our Democratic colleagues had every chance to participate and simply refused.”

It’s almost as if the Senate Majority Whip appeared on the show because he wanted to push a single talking point, even if that meant ignoring important questions.

Cornyn’s evasiveness was its own problem, but making matters worse was the fact that his talking point was demonstrably silly.

The Republican tax plan was written in secret by Republicans. Democrats weren’t invited to participate in negotiations, though they were desperate to have some input.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:57 am

This is some Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy shit right here. "Look, our bill was written with a completely open process. The Democrats could've joined us! We sent a small slip of paper to them with the coordinates that led to a the first step of an 18-step treasure hunt that would've led them directly to the room that we were working in. Then all they would've had to do was break into the disused office building, go down to the third sub basement where the power's out, make it past the leopards, and break through the locked, steel-reinforced door, and they could've had input!"

It's also weird that the GOP is basically saying "yes, the bill we wrote entirely by ourselves isn't very good, I wish we'd had help", which seems to imply that they're not actually good at their jobs at all. Which has been obvious for years, but it's weird to hear them try and use that as a defense.