Octopus Overlords

Well, looks like this is passing. Basically, it's a big deficit increase to pay for a tax cut for the richest people in the country. We are literally borrowing money to give to rich people. Way to go!

https://twitter.com/ThePlumLineGS/statu ... 7667580928

And this is when things are good for the middle and lower class. Within ten years, they actually pay more in taxes.

Sure, but that gives the GOP plenty of time to come up with ways to blame the Dems for the tax hike.

Well, at least we have a sizable budget surplus from which these cuts can be paid without mortgaging the country's future.

Defiant wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:17 am Cornyn suggests it’s Dems’ fault the GOP tax plan isn’t ‘better’

Hilarious. They are really sociopathic. Very few buy these intentional lies but it doesn't matter much since they've broken and engineered this system to this end. The true marvel is that they then turned it into a talking point. Ingenious.

malchior wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:54 amVery few buy these intentional lies

Seems to me that all Fox News viewers gobble these lies up like milk from their mother's teat.

Just passed in the House and will pass later today in the Senate.
https://twitter.com/danpfeiffer/status/ ... 5993297920

The only thing that "benefits" the "common person" that came out of committee is the fact that the SALT deduction isn't totally going way - it's capped at $10k for everything (state/local taxes, sales taxes (if you can deduct them) and property taxes) instead of just being a $10k limit on property taxes and no state/local income/sales tax deduction.

It still hits the high tax blue states hard, but not quite as badly as it could have.

Sarah Sanders said today that Trump's taxes have yet to be released since they are still under audit.

Uhhh, what? How can they STILL be under audit? It was a flimsy excuse to begin with, but holy crap.

https://www.twitter.com/mkraju/status/9 ... 4432801793

As a group the press corps needs to say "we don't believe you. We think you are a liar."

Remember when that one congressman yelled out "LIAR" at Obama? The press corps needs to do that at every opportunity. With Sanders, with Drumpf. With whoever is telling a clear lie. And everyone needs to do it. I doubt Fox would get on board, but everyone except Fox has a stake in the truth.

pr0ner wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:02 pm Sarah Sanders said today that Trump's taxes have yet to be released since they are still under audit.

Uhhh, what? How can they STILL be under audit? It was a flimsy excuse to begin with, but holy crap.

She's not even talking to the press in front of her. She's telling Trump voters what to keep believing.

GreenGoo wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:17 pm As a group the press corps needs to say "we don't believe you. We think you are a liar."

Remember when that one congressman yelled out "LIAR" at Obama? The press corps needs to do that at every opportunity. With Sanders, with Drumpf. With whoever is telling a clear lie. And everyone needs to do it. I doubt Fox would get on board, but everyone except Fox has a stake in the truth.

This would just give Trump an excuse to cancel all press briefings forever.

Even if it's all you get, reporting that lies were lied does matter.

Everyone knows she's lying, including Sanders herself. Lying is just a political strategy for them. They know there aren't any consequences, and being known as liars is preferable to what they'd be confirmed to be if the truth came out. Lying allows them just enough plausible deniability about how the tax bill effects Trump to shut down any follow ups on that front. So they get called liars in the press, which their supporters dismiss anyway, and it doesn't affect their detractors either because they already know they're liars.

Jeff V wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 1:09 pm

malchior wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:54 amVery few buy these intentional lies

Seems to me that all Fox News viewers gobble these lies up like milk from their mother's teat.

More like an alcoholic guzzling grain alcohol. Mother's milk is healthy. Fox News is lethal to the truth and America.

pr0ner wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:02 pm Sarah Sanders said today that Trump's taxes have yet to be released since they are still under audit.

Uhhh, what? How can they STILL be under audit? It was a flimsy excuse to begin with, but holy crap.

They aren't lying about the audit at least... all Presidential tax returns are audited. The difference (that almost goes without saying) is tax returns being under audit are no excuse for not releasing them, just as every recent President has done.

A few years back we converted our mortgage into a home equity line (HELOC), saving rather a lot of money over the old combination of mortgage/HELOC that the new line replaced. I didn't like the idea of a variable APR, but we saved a lot while rates were rock-bottom.

Once rates started creeping up I looked into converting it back into a fixed-rate mortgage, but it's a fairly small sum ($50k) and will be paid off in 5-6 years. Not a lot of banks are interested in writing puny short-term mortgages, and those who will wanted closing costs. The rate at which we're paying it down keeps the interest payments more-or-less steady while the rate slowly rises. And, of course, the interest is tax-deductible.

Then today I read that HELOC interest isn't deductible anymore. Bastards.

Oh well. It's just tax policy; although it ain't easy, it can be undone. Starting about six months from now, Republicans will own responsibility for the economy, for better or for worse.

The media is constantly groping the tax bill. No wonder she's annoyed.

OMGWTFBBQ? That's a hell of a line by Collins.

In other Sanders/Trump tax soundbites:

https://twitter.com/christinawilkie/sta ... 4708996097

See my post above. They lie brazenly.

A crucial GOP senator is raising questions about the bill after finding out that it includes a tax break that could financially benefit him and politically tarnish him.

Sen. Bob Corker (R-Tenn.) says he wasn’t aware of this new tax break for wealthy real estate developers like him, but the left is whacking him for initially withholding support yet later backing the bill around the same time that this provision was included.

Selling out the future for pennies on the dollar. But they get the pennies and we pay the dollars.


And lying. Always lying.

https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/ ... 2719362048

Oops.

Because we're all professionals here.

From the quality of work we've seen so far, we'll be lucky if this passes and someone doesn't sneak in a provision giving Alaska to Russia.

Sepiche wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 6:34 pm From the quality of work we've seen so far, we'll be lucky if this passes and someone doesn't sneak in a provision giving Alaska to Russia.

Nope, just Exxon. https://twitter.com/SpeakerRyan/status/ ... 0842376192

You know, if there's one thing I learned in high school and college, it's that I did my very best, most error-free work at the absolute last second. If I was printing that thing out before sprinting to class in time to be just two minutes late, I knew that the work I was turning in was guaranteed to be WAY better than anything I spent way longer writing, editing, having friends look over and edit, and re-writing.

Rushing things through at the last second is the absolute best way to do things.

Seriously, there's going to be so many loopholes found in this.

Many of those loopholes will not be intentional.

I get to spend a week in Orlando in January for a weeklong tax conference that among other things covers the bill. I then head to Cincinnati the following Friday to give my own presentation I am not worried about having enough ideas.

El Guapo wrote:https://twitter.com/pdmcleod/status/943221066171912192

Such high energy, we're so excited to have Susan join us in MAGA!

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Zarathud wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:54 pm Many of those loopholes will not be intentional.

I get to spend a week in Orlando in January for a weeklong tax conference that among other things covers the bill. I then head to Cincinnati the following Friday to give my own presentation I am not worried about having enough ideas.

Well, this should be good for you professionally at least. Then in 2021 you'll get more work implementing President Sanders's tax bill.

The tweet from Cornym this morning selling how great this tax bill was something to behold.

Under #TaxCutsandJobsAct a married couple earning $100,000 per year ($60,000 from wages, $25,000 from their non-corporate business, and $15,000 in business income) will receive a tax cut of $2,603.50, a reduction of nearly 24 percent.

That’s totally how couples with $60k in wages round out their income. What an out of touch asshole.


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RunningMn9 wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:50 pm The tweet from Cornym this morning selling how great this tax bill was something to behold.

Under #TaxCutsandJobsAct a married couple earning $100,000 per year ($60,000 from wages, $25,000 from their non-corporate business, and $15,000 in business income) will receive a tax cut of $2,603.50, a reduction of nearly 24 percent.

That’s totally how couples with $60k in wages round out their income. What an out of touch asshole.


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God help me for even slightly defending this raging crap fest of a bill, but I do actually know a bunch of people that fit that profile, give or take.

El Guapo wrote: Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:38 pm Well, this should be good for you professionally at least. Then in 2021 you'll get more work implementing President Sanders's tax bill.

Exactly. A terrible Republican tax bill seemed highly likely, so I changed to be the sole Chicago estate planner at a larger law firm. Many senior attorneys who made their name after the 1986 tax act will likely retire, and their clients will be looking for the next generation of tax lawyers at the same time the supply dries up. The Democrats are going to make repealing these tax cuts priority #1, and there will be a huge demand to deal with the tax policy whipsaw.

Think of it this way. The tax plan allows Trump and other rich people to gift $11 million in additional gift/estate tax exemption (over the $11 million available to a married couple). By investing only $10 million at only 2.5% (CD rates) return, Don Jr. could spend $473,159 annually over 30 years. With a conservative 7.5% stock market return on $10 million, Ivanka could spend $833,846 annually over 30 years. Or preserve the $10 million principal by spending only the $750,000 return annually in perpetuity.

That giant sucking sound? It's the 1% transferring their wealth to the next generation without paying taxes. This deficit-financed tax policy is not only stupid, it's unsustainable.

geezer wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:37 am God help me for even slightly defending this raging crap fest of a bill, but I do actually know a bunch of people that fit that profile, give or take.

I'm not surprised, and as a small business owner yourself, you probably run into people with this sort of life more regularly than most of us.

I think Rmn9's point is that most of us don't have time to run our own businesses while earning that 60k, let alone 2 separate income streams in addition to wages. Obviously if you are taking a wage from your business, then yeah, you can get salary and siphon money out of the business.

Not a whole lot of people out there doing that though. At least not compared to wage slaves. Maybe that's their point? Working for the man is for suckers? That should do great things for the economy.

Let’s not forget that this tax bill also mortally wounds Obamacare by repealing the individual mandate. I don’t think the democrats did a good job pushing that angle at all.

msteelers wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 5:58 am Let’s not forget that this tax bill also mortally wounds Obamacare by repealing the individual mandate. I don’t think the democrats did a good job pushing that angle at all.

I don't think any amount of pushing would've changed things. The GOP only needed to keep their own people in line, and the one thing the GOP feels the most strongly about, across the board, is tax cuts, mostly for the rich and businesses. By doing mostly that, you get the vast majority of GOP leaders solidly behind you. The rest of the holdouts you buy with token stuff that they can sell as "I held their feet to the fire and got X for my constituents!"

I'm struggling to think of what would've had to have been in this bill to get any Republicans from voting for it.

On the plus side, I no longer have to feel any amount of affection for even the moderate Republican Senators like Murkowski and Collins. Sorry ladies, you've done some okay things in the past, then you sold out the rest of the country for meager promises and token wins. Vote 'em out with the rest of the garbage.

geezer wrote:God help me for even slightly defending this raging crap fest of a bill, but I do actually know a bunch of people that fit that profile, give or take.

I have no doubt that it happens, but it’s not particularly common for a couple earning $30k each to also own multiple businesses. As was noted by the many twitter responses skewering Cornyn, what he most likely did was take how rich people make their money, and then just reduce the numbers by 90% to get down to regular people numbers.

Nevermind that the majority of the population is pulling in significantly less than $100k, with almost none of it coming from the multiple businesses that they don’t own.

Chaz wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:52 amI don't think any amount of pushing would've changed things. The GOP only needed to keep their own people in line, and the one thing the GOP feels the most strongly about, across the board, is tax cuts, mostly for the rich and businesses. By doing mostly that, you get the vast majority of GOP leaders solidly behind you. The rest of the holdouts you buy with token stuff that they can sell as "I held their feet to the fire and got X for my constituents!"

You're right, but I think more of a stink could have been made over the mandate repeal. Possibly enough to get it removed.

I don't know. Maybe there was a huge backlash with hundreds of callers to the senate every day. If there was, I wasn't aware of it like I was over the summer.

How much of those middle class tax cuts are going to be wiped out by the rising insurance premiums?

America is a land of opportunity! I'm sorry, but why should we wring our hands over a few lazy slackers who've somehow failed to acquire three or four businesses?

msteelers wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 7:32 am

Chaz wrote: Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:52 amI don't think any amount of pushing would've changed things. The GOP only needed to keep their own people in line, and the one thing the GOP feels the most strongly about, across the board, is tax cuts, mostly for the rich and businesses. By doing mostly that, you get the vast majority of GOP leaders solidly behind you. The rest of the holdouts you buy with token stuff that they can sell as "I held their feet to the fire and got X for my constituents!"

You're right, but I think more of a stink could have been made over the mandate repeal. Possibly enough to get it removed.

I don't know. Maybe there was a huge backlash with hundreds of callers to the senate every day. If there was, I wasn't aware of it like I was over the summer.

How much of those middle class tax cuts are going to be wiped out by the rising insurance premiums?

I believe the stink was made. That's what "millions will lose their healthcare" was about, and I heard that every day.

Republicans don't give a shit. They would never have considered preserving the mandate because this tax bill was plan B for killing Obamacare.

Plus, killing the mandate was a big chunk of keeping the deficit increase below the magic reconciliation number. It was win win for them. The bonus was that with everything else in the bill, it was harder for the Dems to focus on any one thing.