Shootings

[Remus West]

That suggests to me that the penalty for the dealer selling the gun is no where near high enough. Make it a felony (and take away the right to sell) for selling a gun to a listed felon and I bet those incidences drop. Problem is the NRA would fight that legislation tooth and nail if they had to. Get rid of the gun show sales and they drop again but again, NRA.

[Rip]

That suggests to me that the penalty for the dealer selling the gun is no where near high enough. Make it a felony (and take away the right to sell) for selling a gun to a listed felon and I bet those incidences drop. Problem is the NRA would fight that legislation tooth and nail if they had to. Get rid of the gun show sales and they drop again but again, NRA.

Sounds to me like it is on the system not the dealer.

http://wgntv.com/2018/05/18/as-a-convic ... e-had-gun/

Her attorney Tom Murray told WGN he believes she bought the gun in Illinois, legally, and with a FOID card. But he did not know about her 1991 felony convictions.

Illinois State Police won’t specify how she got the gun, or whether they ran a proper background check,because the case is still under investigation.

But in Illinois a felony conviction anywhere in the country disqualifies someone from getting a FOID card, which you need to buy a gun in Illinois.

She had a card, nothing the dealer could have done. The question is how did she obtain the card.

Sounds to me like the leftist anti-gun blue state handed it to her even though they clearly should not have. No worries, I'm sure some more laws will fix it.

[Isgrimnur]

Let's repeal the Gekas amendment, then

It was called House Amendment 390, and it radically altered the implementation of the Brady background check bill. It was backed by the NRA. Twenty days later, it was the law. And 22 years later, one of its elements allowed Dylann Roof to get a gun.
...
House Amendment 390 is the part of the Brady Bill that sets the clock. Known colloquially as the Gekas amendment — for its sponsor, George Gekas, a House Republican from Pennsylvania and staunch NRA ally — it was introduced at the eleventh hour of a seven-year-long legislative fight. In the years since, the Gekas amendment has come to define the policy at the center of American gun violence–prevention efforts. Its primary purpose was to mandate the replacement of an interim, manual federal system for verifying prospective gun buyers’ eligibility with a national computer-based system capable of producing near-instant answers; the three business-day cutoff was an afterthought. But together those provisions have shaped the expectations for gun background checks, creating a bias toward speed.

[Remus West]

That suggests to me that the penalty for the dealer selling the gun is no where near high enough. Make it a felony (and take away the right to sell) for selling a gun to a listed felon and I bet those incidences drop. Problem is the NRA would fight that legislation tooth and nail if they had to. Get rid of the gun show sales and they drop again but again, NRA.

Sounds to me like it is on the system not the dealer.

Her attorney Tom Murray told WGN he bel ... Illinois.

She had a card, nothing the dealer could have done. The question is how did she obtain the card.

Sounds to me like the leftist anti-gun blue state handed it to her even though they clearly should not have. No worries, I'm sure some more laws will fix it.

Your link doesn't work right for me but what it does show suggests you are basing those statements on claims made by her attorney and not on actual proven facts. I'll wait to judge until the facts are shown. If she legally obtained a card (which should be impossible) then you are right and there is a flaw in the system. If not then I'm right and there is a different kind of flaw in the system - a system the dealer is party to.

[Rip]

That suggests to me that the penalty for the dealer selling the gun is no where near high enough. Make it a felony (and take away the right to sell) for selling a gun to a listed felon and I bet those incidences drop. Problem is the NRA would fight that legislation tooth and nail if they had to. Get rid of the gun show sales and they drop again but again, NRA.

Sounds to me like it is on the system not the dealer.

Her attorney Tom Murray told WGN he bel ... Illinois.

She had a card, nothing the dealer could have done. The question is how did she obtain the card.

Sounds to me like the leftist anti-gun blue state handed it to her even though they clearly should not have. No worries, I'm sure some more laws will fix it.

Your link doesn't work right for me but what it does show suggests you are basing those statements on claims made by her attorney and not on actual proven facts. I'll wait to judge until the facts are shown. If she legally obtained a card (which should be impossible) then you are right and there is a flaw in the system. If not then I'm right and there is a different kind of flaw in the system - a system the dealer is party to.

My bad. Fixed.

Here is the link.

http://wgntv.com/2018/05/18/as-a-convic ... e-had-gun/

and a little more on the case.

Her charges should have prevented her from getting a FOID card in Illinois and the 9 millimeter semiautomatic rifle her son allegedly brought to school.

Attorney Edward Johnson is a gun law expert. He says legal gun owners in Illinois must fill out an application. Question number two on the application asks: “Have you ever been convicted of a felony?”

“Something got messed up somewhere, or somebody is lying to somebody,” stated Edward Johnson.

If Julie Milby lied on her FOID card application, Johnson says she could face federal and state charges.

“She could be in a lot of trouble,” Johnson stated.

Julie Milby could face state charges if she lied on her FOID card application. She could potentially face federal charges if she lied to the gun dealer, who is also required to ask if she’s ever been convicted of a felony. CBS 2’s Brad Edwards reports that’s a potential 10 year federal crime.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2018/05/21/ ... r-charges/

So the system is defeated by felons lying. Who could have predicted that?

[LawBeefaroni]

That suggests to me that the penalty for the dealer selling the gun is no where near high enough. Make it a felony (and take away the right to sell) for selling a gun to a listed felon and I bet those incidences drop. Problem is the NRA would fight that legislation tooth and nail if they had to. Get rid of the gun show sales and they drop again but again, NRA.

Sounds to me like it is on the system not the dealer.

Her attorney Tom Murray told WGN he bel ... Illinois.

She had a card, nothing the dealer could have done. The question is how did she obtain the card.

Sounds to me like the leftist anti-gun blue state handed it to her even though they clearly should not have. No worries, I'm sure some more laws will fix it.

Your link doesn't work right for me but what it does show suggests you are basing those statements on claims made by her attorney and not on actual proven facts. I'll wait to judge until the facts are shown. If she legally obtained a card (which should be impossible) then you are right and there is a flaw in the system. If not then I'm right and there is a different kind of flaw in the system - a system the dealer is party to.

My bad. Fixed.

Here is the link.

http://wgntv.com/2018/05/18/as-a-convic ... e-had-gun/

and a little more on the case.

Her charges should have prevented her from getting a FOID card in Illinois and the 9 millimeter semiautomatic rifle her son allegedly brought to school.

Attorney Edward Johnson is a gun law expert. He says legal gun owners in Illinois must fill out an application. Question number two on the application asks: “Have you ever been convicted of a felony?”

“Something got messed up somewhere, or somebody is lying to somebody,” stated Edward Johnson.

If Julie Milby lied on her FOID card application, Johnson says she could face federal and state charges.

“She could be in a lot of trouble,” Johnson stated.

Julie Milby could face state charges if she lied on her FOID card application. She could potentially face federal charges if she lied to the gun dealer, who is also required to ask if she’s ever been convicted of a felony. CBS 2’s Brad Edwards reports that’s a potential 10 year federal crime.

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2018/05/21/ ... r-charges/

So the system is defeated by felons lying. Who could have predicted that?

It's not. The FOID application includes that question but it's a formality. They do a background check (or are supposed to). Similaryly, the NICS check includes the question but it still runs the check.

If she had a felony, this is on the ISP for not picking it up when doing the FOID applicant check. The only thing the question is good for is to tack on additional penalties to the applicant. It's illegal for a prohibited person to even try to buy a gun so that question should never be an affirmative on the NICS.

That suggests to me that the penalty for the dealer selling the gun is no where near high enough. Make it a felony (and take away the right to sell) for selling a gun to a listed felon and I bet those incidences drop. Problem is the NRA would fight that legislation tooth and nail if they had to. Get rid of the gun show sales and they drop again but again, NRA.

It's 10 years in federal prison and probable loss of FFL. But that's for knowingly selling to a prohibited person (not just felons). If someone has a FOID and passes NICS, you can still deny selling to them but you can't reasonably be expected to think they're prohibited.

[Little Raven]

Let's repeal the Gekas amendment, then.

I don't see how we can do that without creating a worse problem. The system has to be fail-open, because otherwise you give the bureaucrats the power to create a defacto gun ban by simply sitting on permits..."Oh yeah...we'll get around to doing your background check...next year, maybe. Maybe the one after. Hard to say. Backlog, you know how it is..."

We don't allow that bullshit with trials (at least, in theory) and we shouldn't allow it with background checks either. Now, if the system is overwhelmed (and I believe that it is) then by all means let's throw some resources at it. Heck, every gun owner I know would LOVE to get a real system in place. Right now, you wait months or years for approval on simple NFA items. It seems like fixing that broken system would be something that both sides could agree on - gun control advocates get a better screening process and gun enthusiasts get better turnaround time on their legal purchases.

Never seems to work out that way, though.

[hepcat]

And here we go again. Shots fired at a middle school in Indiana.

[Pyperkub]

Middle school shootings now? WTF?

Update from the 2 p.m. press conference with local law enforcement: A boy in the class asked to be excused then returned to class with two handguns, Noblesville Police Chief Kevin Jowitt said.

A teacher and a student were injured when the boy started shooting, Jowitt said.

The student was apprehended either in the classroom or the immediate vicinity, Noblesville Police Lt. Bruce Barnes said.

[Smoove_B]

Why do insurance companies hate America?

Kansas has a problem: It has a law allowing teachers to carry guns in the classroom, but almost no schools are using it because insurance companies refuse to provide coverage if they do. As EMC Insurance, the largest insurer of schools in Kansas, explained in a letter to its agents, the company “has concluded that concealed handguns on school premises poses a heightened liability risk.”

Then came the Parkland, Fla., school shooting in February, leading frustrated Republican legislators in Kansas to try forcing the issue with a bill banning “unfair, discriminatory” rates for schools that arm staff. The insurance industry held firm. Last month, the bill failed.

[Unagi]

Actuaries are killing our kids!

[Moliere]

Active Shooter launches on Steam June 6. I'm putting my money on this being pulled from their inventory.

[LawBeefaroni]

Why do insurance companies hate America?

Kansas has a problem: It has a law allowing teachers to carry guns in the classroom, but almost no schools are using it because insurance companies refuse to provide coverage if they do. As EMC Insurance, the largest insurer of schools in Kansas, explained in a letter to its agents, the company “has concluded that concealed handguns on school premises poses a heightened liability risk.”

Then came the Parkland, Fla., school shooting in February, leading frustrated Republican legislators in Kansas to try forcing the issue with a bill banning “unfair, discriminatory” rates for schools that arm staff. The insurance industry held firm. Last month, the bill failed.

It's a pretty straight equation. If someone comes in and shoots up the school, the insurance company isn't on the hook. If a teacher accidentally shoots someone, the insurance company, via the school is liable.

There is financial disincentive for them to cover armed staff.

[Blackhawk]

Active Shooter launches on Steam June 6. I'm putting my money on this being pulled from their inventory.

*POOF*

[Holman]

The Fuck were they thinking??

[Skinypupy]

Active Shooter launches on Steam June 6. I'm putting my money on this being pulled from their inventory.

*POOF*

Angry posts about Steam being taken over by SJWs in 3...2...1...

[Blackhawk]

Angry posts about Steam being taken over by SJWs in 3...2...1...

-489...-490...-491

[Blackhawk]

Oh, and it looks like pages carrying stories about its removal are being reported to security sites as malicious to block people from going to them.

Keep it classy, GamerGaters.

[LawBeefaroni]

So many outlets are reporting this as "a game from Valve."

It's "from Valve" only in that it was on Steam but no one who isn't a gamer gets that. Valve needs to do some damage control.

[Blackhawk]

So many outlets are reporting this as "a game from Valve."

It's "from Valve" only in that it was on Steam but no one who isn't a gamer gets that. Valve needs to do some damage control.

Maybe it will teach them to moderate their store a little better.

[LawBeefaroni]

So many outlets are reporting this as "a game from Valve."

It's "from Valve" only in that it was on Steam but no one who isn't a gamer gets that. Valve needs to do some damage control.

Maybe it will teach them to moderate their store a little better.

Absolutely. Who didn't see this coming?

[Max Peck]

So many outlets are reporting this as "a game from Valve."

It's "from Valve" only in that it was on Steam but no one who isn't a gamer gets that. Valve needs to do some damage control.

Maybe it will teach them to moderate their store a little better.

It sounds like Steam dumped the developer for circumventing a prior ban rather than because of the subject matter per se.

"This developer and publisher is, in fact, a person calling himself Ata Berdiyev, who had previously been removed last fall when he was operating as '[bc]Interactive' and 'Elusive Team'," said Valve in a statement.

"Ata is a troll, with a history of customer abuse, publishing copyrighted material, and user review manipulation.

"His subsequent return under new business names was a fact that came to light as we investigated the controversy around his upcoming title. We are not going to do business with people who act like this towards our customers or Valve.

"The broader conversation about Steam's content policies is one that we'll be addressing soon."

My question is, will their eventual response to the "broader conversation" be overkill or ridiculous overkill?

[Isgrimnur]

Tennessee

Republican Rep. Diane Black of Tennessee recently cited pornography, along with the deterioration of the family and violent movies, as a contributing factor to gun violence in schools.

Black made the remarks during a listening session with local pastors last week, according to audio obtained by HuffPost and posted Tuesday.

"Why do we see kids being so violent? What's out there? What makes them do that?" Black said. "Because, as a nurse, I go back to root cause. And I think it's a couple things," Black said, listing off deterioration of the family and violent movies, before mentioning pornography.

"Pornography. It's available. It's available on the shelf when you walk in the grocery store. Yeah, you have to reach up to get it, but there's pornography there," Black says in the audio. "All of this is available without parental guidance."

She adds, "And I think that's a big part of the root cause, that we see so many young people that have mental illness get caught in these places."

[Paingod]

Somehow a lot of other countries have broader exposure to sexuality without killing each other quite as much. Let's maybe take a closer look at violence and absentee parenting before we blame boobies.

[LawBeefaroni]

Probably contributes to the InCel nutjobs.

[YellowKing]

Not really related to the current conversation thread, but the next county over had a big school lockdown last week.

Turns out someone called the cops on a kid who was acting suspicious and was headed to school with a weapon. This prompted the sheriff to call for a lockdown as a precaution, which was reported on the news. The police arrive and did find a kid with several knives on campus.

As they're dealing with this, but who should come riding in but the "cavalry." A 16-year old heard about the lockdown on the news, so he shows up at school with his .22 thinking he was going to stop "the shooter." This cowboy genius then proceeds to get himself arrested along with knife boy for bringing a gun onto school property.

[Isgrimnur]

Some people never grow out of that stupidity:

In the hours after a gunman killed at least 10 people at a Texas high school in the latest act of mass bloodshed on an American school campus, another man with a gun caught the attention of reporters at the scene.

With a pistol holstered on his hip and an American flag in his hand, the man, wearing a Trump hat, spoke briefly on video with reporters gathered at Santa Fe High School Friday. The man, who was not identified in the video, said his first thought after the shooting was to “get to the school, make America great again.”

He said he was there to offer support.

“Just God bless y’all, will go a long ways right now for a lot of people,” he said. He then ended the interview and walked away.

[Carpet_pissr]

Somehow a lot of other countries have broader exposure to sexuality without killing each other quite as much. Let's maybe take a closer look at violence and absentee parenting before we blame boobies.

But boobies as the problem probably aligns perfectly with her (or at least her constituents’) beliefs about evil. Why would she need to look further?

Likely that ‘sexuality = sin’ has been pounded into her head from parents and church since an early age.

It’s amazing how far in some ways America has advanced as a society since its puritanical origins, and in other ways is still stuck in an 18th century mentality.

[Moliere]

Drunk YouTuber's Fake Shooter 'Experiment' Sent Disney Resort Into Lockdown

YouTube has spawned a lot of egregiously dumb shit: Everything from a high-profile scandal over a video gawking at a suicide victim in a Japanese forest to a vlogger wearing a Nazi armband at a Donald Trump rally as part of a “social experiment.” But an incident where an 22-year-old man allegedly ran around a Disney resort in Florida warning of an active shooter so he could film peoples’ reactions really takes the cake.

[LawBeefaroni]

Somehow a lot of other countries have broader exposure to sexuality without killing each other quite as much. Let's maybe take a closer look at violence and absentee parenting before we blame boobies.

But boobies as the problem probably aligns perfectly with her (or at least her constituents’) beliefs about evil. Why would she need to look further?

Likely that ‘sexuality = sin’ has been pounded into her head from parents and church since an early age.

It’s amazing how far in some ways America has advanced as a society since its puritanical origins, and in other ways is still stuck in an 18th century mentality.

As off the mark as she may be, she may be on to something in a broken clock kind of way. Not so much all mass killings, but sexually motivated violence which accounts for some of them. Like I said, certainly the InCel shit. It's all part of a bigger problem.

It's not about "omg boobies," either. It's about hardcore porn going mainstream and it's not a uniquely Puritanical American problem.

Ireland.

She is frightened by the pace at which online offending has changed, and its impact. “The escalation is astonishing,” she says of rape-based pornography.

Like Marcella Leonard, Finnegan says many young boys are now receiving their sex education from pornography. “With the level of aggression in these men; I wonder how they are going to ever have relationships with anyone,” she says of some of the offenders she has encountered.

All of the men in treatment she has encountered began offending at around 10 or 11 years of age. They developed what Finnegan calls “a deviant interest” in sexual violence.

At present, she says a major increased area of offending is so-called sextortion. This involves offenders befriending young people online, often on Facebook.

Italy

An awareness campaign on pornography will be launched in secondary schools and the government will introduce a bill against sexual and gender-based violence next year, he said.

And that's just recent articles from memory.

[Isgrimnur]

Drunk YouTuber's Fake Shooter 'Experiment' Sent Disney Resort Into Lockdown

YouTube has spawned a lot of egregiously dumb shit: Everything from a high-profile scandal over a video gawking at a suicide victim in a Japanese forest to a vlogger wearing a Nazi armband at a Donald Trump rally as part of a “social experiment.” But an incident where an 22-year-old man allegedly ran around a Disney resort in Florida warning of an active shooter so he could film peoples’ reactions really takes the cake.

You don't mess with the Giant Mouse. Enjoy your lifetime ban and criminal record.

[LawBeefaroni]

Drunk YouTuber's Fake Shooter 'Experiment' Sent Disney Resort Into Lockdown

YouTube has spawned a lot of egregiously dumb shit: Everything from a high-profile scandal over a video gawking at a suicide victim in a Japanese forest to a vlogger wearing a Nazi armband at a Donald Trump rally as part of a “social experiment.” But an incident where an 22-year-old man allegedly ran around a Disney resort in Florida warning of an active shooter so he could film peoples’ reactions really takes the cake.

You don't mess with the Giant Mouse. Enjoy your lifetime ban and criminal record.

He's lucky he didn't get a punch in the face. I guess because it was midnight there probably weren't many young kids around but either way I'm sure a lot of people would have had a hard time not putting an end to his "experiment" right then and there.

[Pyperkub]

This here is an 88 Magnum, it shoots through schools...

A powerful modern-day cannon fires water bottles as cannonballs - smashing strong walls in mere seconds.

The humble, ordinary water cooler bottle used in offices all across America becomes a mighty missile when loaded into this amazing cannon - the BCB Wall Breaker.

Without using any explosives whatsoever, the cannon remarkably uses just compressed air to blast the bottles through tough targets.

With the tragic rise in school shootings, the BCB Wall Breaker has the potential to save countless lives of American children in future active shooter situations.

For many years, BCB has had an outstanding track record innovating for Special Operations Forces.

So yeah, the Military-Industrial complex now wants to sell heavy weapons to schools...

[Little Raven]

It's not about "omg boobies," either. It's about hardcore porn going mainstream and it's not a uniquely Puritanical American problem.

I am certainly open to the idea that giving...well, anyone, really, but young people in particular unfettered access to high speed delivery of pornography in infinite quantity and variety may have some deleterious effects on their ability to foment positive human relations.

I'm not sure what we DO about that, but we should probably have a conversation about it at some point.

[Holman]

Obviously every parent should talk to their growing kids about the availability of pornography.

But hardcore porn is readily available in Germany and Sweden and Japan, and they don't have school shootings or similar mass violence.

[LawBeefaroni]

This here is an 88 Magnum, it shoots through schools...

A powerful modern-day cannon fires water bottles as cannonballs - smashing strong walls in mere seconds.

The humble, ordinary water cooler bottle used in offices all across America becomes a mighty missile when loaded into this amazing cannon - the BCB Wall Breaker.

Without using any explosives whatsoever, the cannon remarkably uses just compressed air to blast the bottles through tough targets.

With the tragic rise in school shootings, the BCB Wall Breaker has the potential to save countless lives of American children in future active shooter situations.

For many years, BCB has had an outstanding track record innovating for Special Operations Forces.

So yeah, the Military-Industrial complex now wants to sell heavy weapons to schools...

It's kind of silly but it's not exactly as dumb as it sounds.

The BCB Wall Breaker is a tool to help provide escape for those who are trapped by active shooters in schools, held hostage in a hotel by terrorists or penned in by fire in an apartment building. These are a number of ways it could help save lives.

Ordinarily, police and military use explosives to breach walls. By using air pressure instead to launch and water bottles as ammo, breaching can be far less dangerous – especially for hostages.

It's an alternative to using explosives to breach walls for extraction. It's not meant to be used as an offensive weapon.

[Remus West]

Have they ever actually used explosives to breach walls for extraction? Seems like a really bad idea to me given that our instructions are to hide kids against the walls in the event of an active shooter.

[LawBeefaroni]

Have they ever actually used explosives to breach walls for extraction? Seems like a really bad idea to me given that our instructions are to hide kids against the walls in the event of an active shooter.

Of course it's a bad idea. But explosives are common and may occasionally be the answer. However this is a company with a product and no market.

Theoretically there may be very rare cases where shooting a water cooler bottle through a wall would be useful. Too rare to make it worthwhile having a water cooler bottle launcher on hand. But I'm sure some sherriff department somewhere might want a new toy.

[Carpet_pissr]

It's not about "omg boobies," either. It's about hardcore porn going mainstream and it's not a uniquely Puritanical American problem.

I am certainly open to the idea that giving...well, anyone, really, but young people in particular unfettered access to high speed delivery of pornography in infinite quantity and variety may have some deleterious effects on their ability to foment positive human relations.

I'm not sure what we DO about that, but we should probably have a conversation about it at some point.

I'm open to the idea as well, but it makes more sense to me that that our national gun fetish should be higher on the list than pornography. But very few on the right want to have THAT conversation. Let's blame everything BUT the problem that is 300 ft tall and standing in the middle of the room. Surely it's: boobies, increased moral degeneracy thanks to Liberals, lack of God in schools, not ENOUGH guns (my personal fave) etc.

[LawBeefaroni]

It's not about "omg boobies," either. It's about hardcore porn going mainstream and it's not a uniquely Puritanical American problem.

I am certainly open to the idea that giving...well, anyone, really, but young people in particular unfettered access to high speed delivery of pornography in infinite quantity and variety may have some deleterious effects on their ability to foment positive human relations.

I'm not sure what we DO about that, but we should probably have a conversation about it at some point.

I'm open to the idea as well, but it makes more sense to me that that our national gun fetish should be higher on the list than pornography. But very few on the right want to have THAT conversation. Let's blame everything BUT the problem that is 300 ft tall and standing in the middle of the room. Surely it's: boobies, increased moral degeneracy thanks to Liberals, lack of God in schools, not ENOUGH guns (my personal fave) etc.

Solutions aren't mutually exclusive. There is good evidence that porn can contribute to violence. Not just in America, as some of the links I put up show. It needs to be addressed, and my point was that just because someone makes the highly dubious leap that it is a major cause of mass shootings, that doesn't mean it's a non-issue. Like I said, broken clock. That's all.


Now using the porn problem as an alternative, or even barrier, to solving the gun problem, that's where I'm sure we all take issue.