Octopus Overlords

Fretmute wrote:

mori wrote:Isn't it? It is priced and equipped as a grand tourer not as a commuter.

It seems priced and equipped as a fancy around town car for rich folks, but that's just my opinion.

Zaxxon wrote:Considering that there is no comparable car on the market, it's difficult to say based on price that it's 'priced as a grand tourer'. It has a 265-mile range at the top end ($80k-$100k) when driven conservatively--if that's a grand tourer, you have rather pedestrian standards for grand tourers.

It's the first workable fully-electric vehicle on the market. I think they've done a bang-up job, but it's not cheap and electric cars have a PITA factor right now. If Tesla sees continued success, that PITA factor will be greatly diminished in just a few years. Between additional Supercharger locations, non-Tesla chargers, and continued 5-10% annual improvement in battery range / cost reduction, I don't think it'll be too long before we have legitimate charging options all along populated areas, EVs that cost half what the Model S does, and 400-500 mile ranges on EV batteries.

Then Tesla will have an EV worthy of being called a grand tourer.

Note that I have driven the Model S and think it's a ridiculously awesome vehicle--far and away the most fun to drive car that I've ever driven. I'd love to own one. But in a few years the justification will be far easier.

Zaxxon wrote:Volt, Leaf and Prius are not even remotely comparable.

cheeba wrote:

Zaxxon wrote:Volt, Leaf and Prius are not even remotely comparable.

Of course they are. They're all EV's. By far the primary defining feature of the Tesla, Volt, Leaf, Prius Plug-In is that they plug in. If you wanna run solely on electricity, you've got a small handful of cars from which to choose. That makes them comparable. If you do a search for plug-ins, these are the cars that will always come up.

cheeba wrote:

Zaxxon wrote:Volt, Leaf and Prius are not even remotely comparable.

Of course they are. They're all EV's.

Kasey Chang wrote:

cheeba wrote:

Zaxxon wrote:Volt, Leaf and Prius are not even remotely comparable.

Of course they are. They're all EV's.

Actually, only Leaf is EV. Volt and Prius are hybrids. And Prius, unless you get the plug-in model, cannot even be recharged.

Orders and deliveries of the Tesla Model S are reaching a fever pitch, except for one: the lowest-spec, 40 kWh battery pack. So Tesla has decided to nix the entry-level model. But as with all things Tesla, it’s a bit more complicated.

The decision to eliminate the Model S with the 40 kWh battery was based purely on demand. According to the automaker, a scant 4 percent of pre-orders were for the $52,400 (after $7,500 federal tax rebate) 40 kWh battery option, which Tesla maintains “is not enough to justify production of that version.”

But here’s the twist.

Customers that pre-ordered the 40 kWh model will still get what they ordered, but instead their new Model S will come equipped with the larger 60 kWh battery, but with its output limited to 40 kWh via the software. That tweak will reduce range from the claimed 230 to 160 miles, but as a consolation prize, the Model S will retain the 60 kWh model’s bump in performance. That means a better 0-60 mph time (5.9 vs. 6.5 seconds), a higher top speed (120 vs. 110 mph), with 302 horsepower and 317 pound-feet of torque, up from the entry-level Model S’ 235 hp and 310 lb-ft of twist.

But here’s the real kicker: If you want to free up the extra 20 kWh by removing the software limiter, it’ll cost you a cool $10,000 — the same price to go from the 40 to 60 kWh model. That makes it the world’s most expensive software upgrade, but bully for Tesla for at least making it an option for both original and second-hand owners.
...
And one last interesting tidbit from Tesla: The automaker has been covertly installing the Supercharger hardware on all its 60 kWh models, which was normally an upgrade on the standard car. That means that mid-range Model S owners will be able to take advantage of Tesla’s Supercharger network

McNutt wrote:Car and Driver answered my burning question, how much does a tank of electricity cost for one of those Teslas? I think for the 60kWh model they said around $11 for a full charge.

McNutt wrote:Car and Driver answered my burning question, how much does a tank of electricity cost for one of those Teslas? I think for the 60kWh model they said around $11 for a full charge.

geezer wrote:Austin is basically crawling with these things, relatively speaking. Probably see at least one a week if not more (which is significantly more that other exotic vehicles). I've been tempted, but it would take a smaller, GT-type car (think M3/911 competitor) or a cool shooting-brake sportwagon thing to get me into one. Bigass sedans don't do anything useful for me... All the size of a wagon or small SUV without any of the actual usefulness.

El Guapo wrote:You'd think someone would just hack the software limitation on the 40 kWh version. Though I suppose that'd probably void any service warranty.

coopasonic wrote:I've only seen one on the road in Dallas, but then I don't drive very far day to day and I don't live where the money is.

geezer wrote:Austin is basically crawling with these things, relatively speaking. Probably see at least one a week if not more (which is significantly more that other exotic vehicles). I've been tempted, but it would take a smaller, GT-type car (think M3/911 competitor) or a cool shooting-brake sportwagon thing to get me into one. Bigass sedans don't do anything useful for me... All the size of a wagon or small SUV without any of the actual usefulness.

Was the Tesla Roadster too small? I think there is supposed to be a new Roadster next year based on a shrunken Model S platform.

coopasonic wrote: The math is not all that difficult here. I suppose you have to factor in some inefficiency, but still.

Zaxxon wrote:Today's announcement - Leases / guaranteed residual value. They also added a true cost of ownership calculator. I'm not a fan of that calculator--while everything it includes is technically true, it's reaching a bit IMO. Cost of your time to stop and get gas? Really? It's true, but they're not counting the 15 seconds you will spend every time you exit your shiny new electric car to plug it in, either.

Zaxxon wrote:I may be the only one interested enough to keep following these announcements, but just in case I'm not...

stessier wrote:I'm happy they are expanding the Supercharger network. I hope it is a case of "build it, and they will come". I wouldn't care if non-Tesla owners had to pay to use it, it would be great if other cars could use the network.

Zaxxon wrote:The cost is closer than you might think. I made up a cost comparison spreadsheet last year when we were shopping for a replacement for our old Camry (wound up with a Prius V), and the bottom line was that over 8 years and 125k miles, a $75k Model S would have a lower cost of ownership than a $46k Highlander Hybrid or $37k Venza (a couple of the other cars we were looking at). That is greatly aided by the $7500 federal tax credit and $6k Colorado credit along with Colorado's relatively cheap electricity rates, though.

Can't get it to the same ballpark as a Prius, though. I do think that if Tesla keeps doing well and the upcoming Model X isn't a failure, then the third-gen sedan that's to follow has the potential to be wildly successful. By 2017 when it's supposed to hit, a 400+ mile range and < $40k starting price should be reality.

Kasey Chang wrote:They really need to change the name of those charging stations though. All gearheads know supercharger means forced induction.

cheeba wrote:Speaking of Tesla, there's also now Detroit Electric, which appears to be going down the exact same path, right down to the Lotus. Wonder if they'll also get half a billion from the guvment.

Zaxxon wrote:

cheeba wrote:Speaking of Tesla, there's also now Detroit Electric, which appears to be going down the exact same path, right down to the Lotus. Wonder if they'll also get half a billion from the guvment.

I don't know. Maybe they should hope for more like the $1.45B that Nissan got--or better yet, the $5.9B that Ford got.

geezer wrote:Austin is basically crawling with these things, relatively speaking. Probably see at least one a week if not more (which is significantly more that other exotic vehicles). I've been tempted, but it would take a smaller, GT-type car (think M3/911 competitor) or a cool shooting-brake sportwagon thing to get me into one. Bigass sedans don't do anything useful for me... All the size of a wagon or small SUV without any of the actual usefulness.

A legislative proposal, backed by the N.C. Automobile Dealers Association, would make it illegal for Tesla, or any other car maker, to bypass dealerships and sell directly in the state. The proposal cuts at the heart of Tesla’s business model: selling luxury cars over the phone or Internet and then delivering them to the front door of high-net-worth customers.

“The whole point of the retail system is to protect the consumer.”