Steam Dangerous For Publishers

[GreenGoo]

Icebear, try not to lead with "I'm not mentally ill like most people" and I'll try not to call you on it in the future.

I'd say your interpretation of his tone and meaning is completely out of whack.

Oh, I'm quite sure he had no intent to insult or call anyone crazy. That doesn't change the fact that he did.

How do you interpret being called paranoid? Is it a compliment in your world?

[IceBear]

And I apologized for it. For me, calling someone "paranoid" goes back to high school and Ozzy Osbourne (it was an inside joke, albeit, not a very funny one, among my friends so now it's just a casual phrase for me). Yes, I shouldn't use it so casual - that's on me. If you're going to keep harping on it then there's nothing more I can do, but remove myself from the boards again to avoid upsetting people unintentionally.

[GreenGoo]

Icebear, my problem with your stance is that if enough people accept that the price of buying a product is to give up control of that product, then it becomes the norm rather than the exception. Remember we are talking overall corporate strategy rather than the specifics of Steam. Or at least I am, because the general case is more important than one example.

As I mentioned earlier with the sign in Rona (I mention the name now because you probably go there or at least know of it), the sign says "reserve the right".

There is no right to reserve and that they use that legalese sounding phrase to presume the authority to behave like that makes me angry enough to shout at corporate culture with spittle flying.

The cops don't have the right to unlawful search, but somehow Rona not only has that right, but reserves it. The whole idea is insanely retarded and yet through assumption of that "right" and enough people accepting it as Rona's "right" it becomes the norm. There are plenty of people here who in previous discussions have also used the word "paranoid" when referring to those who would prefer not to be stopped and searched 10 feet from where they made the purchase. Corporations are treating their very customers as criminals and no one blinks. So much for the customer is always right. Now it's give us your money and we will disrespect you immediately afterward and we call it a right and we expect you to comply.

Icebear, I know you didn't mean to call people insane. I use the word "retarded" all the time, which is insensitive and completely non-PC these days, and I certainly don't mean to suggest that people or things are literally down syndrome sufferers. I was, in my own obnoxious way, illustrating my point of acceptance of the "new" corporate invasion of our privacy.

Whether you are a douche or not, I have no idea. If, as preacher suggests, we are going to play around with meanings and intent, I would like to point out that I told you not to be a douche, rather than "you are a douche".

I don't give much weight to anything preacher says, but I do respect Meal's opinions, as he has often shown great restraint and rationality in the face of some heated debates, so I took the time to explain myself that I understood your intent even if it was poorly worded and didn't and don't take it personally at all.

I'd also like to point out the fascinating human ability to take back handed and passive aggressive insults as if nothing untoward has occurred, yet if the same intent and implications are voiced in a more direct way, all hell breaks loose as if some social norms had been violated.

Most of the time I'm a direct kind of guy. I could have easily started in this thread something like "unlike most people, I am not a sheep who just accepts whatever a company wants to install on my machine just so I can play the game afterward" but I didn't. First, it doesn't help rational discussion. Second, it's in indirect insult which I try to avoid if possible. Third, I don't actually feel that way.

But all that at the end is text for another discussion in EBG.

I think I've derailed this enough. None of the issues I have with Steam or similar products/applications are even mentioned in the original article (which I read in its entirety, Derek Smart or no). It was illuminating to me to see two people at war over Steam, controversy over its behaviour and what the consequences are, or possibly will be, none of which touch my concerns as a consumer.

P.S. Meal, writing this reminds me that less is more. Oh well. I'll try better next time.

[GreenGoo]

And I apologized for it. For me, calling someone "paranoid" goes back to high school and Ozzy Osbourne (it was an inside joke, albeit, not a very funny one, among my friends so now it's just a casual phrase for me). Yes, I shouldn't use it so casual - that's on me. If you're going to keep harping on it then there's nothing more I can do, but remove myself from the boards again to avoid upsetting people unintentionally.

You did. I was still writing the post you're responding to when you wrote your apology. Some of that feeling of harping is because we are writing overlapping posts rather than discussing it face to face.

Apology accepted. I apologize for implying that you were, or might become sometime in the future, a douche.

Don't be a douche. Words to live by. Myself included.

Please don't martyr yourself on my account.

[IceBear]

Well, after reading Derek Smart's posts I try not to use verbal diaherra to get my point across, but as usual I don't get my point across unless I overexplain myself to the point that my point gets lost. I'll just go back to watching.

[GreenGoo]

Well, after reading Derek Smart's posts I try not to use verbal diaherra to get my point across, but as usual I don't get my point across well.

I was referring to my own long windedness. A bad habit and one referred earlier in this thread (or another, I forget where exactly).

[IceBear]

Well, after reading Derek Smart's posts I try not to use verbal diaherra to get my point across, but as usual I don't get my point across well.

I was referring to my own long windedness. A bad habit and one referred earlier in this thread (or another, I forget where exactly).

I know you were, but I'm prone to do it too, but I was specifically trying not to after reading the comments in that thread, which in turn lead to being too blunt in this one and offending. Anyhoo...hopefully Murn got Offline mode to work and it resolved his issue(s).

[GreenGoo]

Anyhoo...hopefully Murn got Offline mode to work and it resolved his issue(s).

Which still requires the Steam client to be running in the background. (I'm pretty sure. I haven't tried it myself. Correct me if I'm mistaken)

The only thing changed is that he won't have access to Steam updates, which he probably doesn't care about, automatic game updates, which he probably does care about (very nice Steam feature imo) and no access to chat and/matching which he again probably doesn't care about.

Depending on exactly what his issue is, offline mode might solve it or not.

[Kelric]

Steam does run in the background during Offline Mode.

[IceBear]

Anyhoo...hopefully Murn got Offline mode to work and it resolved his issue(s).

Which still requires the Steam client to be running in the background. (I'm pretty sure. I haven't tried it myself. Correct me if I'm mistaken)

The only thing changed is that he won't have access to Steam updates, which he probably doesn't care about, automatic game updates, which he probably does care about (very nice Steam feature imo) and no access to chat and/matching which he again probably doesn't care about.

Depending on exactly what his issue is, offline mode might solve it or not.

I wasn't commenting on Steam running in the background. Lately this thread has been about high speed connectivity, and I know some people who aren't on high speed find that starting up an application when Steam is Online has a lot of delay. That's the issue to which I was assuming he was commenting (he mentioned someone's response about satelite connectivity). It running in the background shouldn't impact performance in my experience.

[GreenGoo]

I was actually trying to clarify for Murn so that he understood how offline mode worked (at least how I thought it did. Kelric confirmed), not counter your advice at all which was perfectly clear.

Base on Murn's post where he says

Secondary client running in the background while playing that I can't control, no access to my beloved save games and all that sh*te that i really detest with Steam.

And

Can I get DL the whole Game package and sever the connection to the steeenking Steam Client or am I stuck in Limbo?!

It is not completely understood whether his problem is internet connectivity or just having the client running in the background.

The steam client running in the background in this case acts as DRM and nothing else, I believe. It's not much different, philosophically, from securcom or any other DRM really, except that it shows up as a separate application and thus paints a bull's eye on itself for people to rant at (myself included on occasion). Most extraneous code is run in a way that is mostly invisible to the end user and therefore is less likely to be targeted for criticism from the general user population.

[IceBear]

I took away from his post that he doesn't want it running in the background and that he may be having performance issues. Since there is nothing that can be done about it running in the background I decided to try to help and focus on the performance issue from connectivity. I probably should have been more explicit as to what running in Offline mode would do, but again, there is nothing that can be done about it running in the background so I chose to ignore that part (at that time, and I should have kept that up rather than start all this)

Edit: I don't know if I understand not being able to access the save games. They should still be saved locally, though nothing is consistent anymore (and that's with non-Steam games too) - some in the Documents folder and some in the game folder. I guess I should point out, since it's possible he's unaware, that all non-Valve games are stored in the <Path to Steam>\steamapps\common and Valve games in <Path to Steam>\steamapps\<SteamID>

[GreenGoo]

Roger. Not picking on you any more. My post was directed at Murn. Your advice was sound.

Hugs.

[The Preacher]

Icebear, try not to lead with "I'm not mentally ill like most people" and I'll try not to call you on it in the future.

I'd say your interpretation of his tone and meaning is completely out of whack.

Oh, I'm quite sure he had no intent to insult or call anyone crazy. That doesn't change the fact that he did.

How do you interpret being called paranoid? Is it a compliment in your world?

It's neither a compliment nor a pejorative in almost every instance that I've heard it, since I'm not in psychiatry. And frankly, it's most often used the way the Bear did (broad, casual, completely and utterly non-clinical), not in the way you state (clinical, "mental illness").

[GreenGoo]

My apologies for taking a word at it's meaning. Please do let me know if any other words with specific meanings change from casual misuse over time so that I don't make a similar mistake in the future.

[The Preacher]

My apologies for taking a word at it's meaning. Please do let me know if any other words with specific meanings change from casual misuse over time so that I don't make a similar mistake in the future.

They call me Mr. Literal
Baby, that's my name now, oh
They call me Mr. Literal
That's how I got my fame

[GreenGoo]

Lol.

Words have meanings. Otherwise communication becomes impossible.

Honestly Preacher, you're reaching here. The word paranoia at it's most benign, implies an unreasonable/irrational concern for small or imaginary issues. And at it's "normal" meaning refers to paranoid schizophrenia. Insanity in other words. I'm having a hard time thinking of a scenario where calling someone paranoid is a neutral statement.

As for Mr. Literal, in this case the meaning hasn't even changed, only softened.

So please sing your little song some more. I enjoyed it.

[The Preacher]

[GreenGoo]

Heh again. You can put away the popcorn because if that's all you're going to add there probably isn't going to be anything to watch. After all it takes 2 and you appear to be bowing out.

Edit: Forgot the requisite smiley face. I'll go with this I guess. It's one of my favourites.

[The Preacher]

Heh again. You can put away the popcorn because if that's all you're going to add there probably isn't going to be anything to watch. After all it takes 2 and you appear to be bowing out.

You're inability to adapt to the realities of figurative language are just killing me here. Oh wait, don't take that literally.

This might help you in future discussions. Perhaps you can add a few of the ones you stumble upon in the common vernacular. Make it a hobby!

[Zurai]

Wow, moderators are allowed to troll now?

[GreenGoo]

You're inability to adapt to the realities of figurative language are just killing me here. Oh wait, don't take that literally.

This might help you in future discussions. Perhaps you can add a few of the ones you stumble upon in the common vernacular. Make it a hobby!

Honestly Preacher, you're reaching here. The word paranoia at it's most benign, implies an unreasonable/irrational concern for small or imaginary issues. And at it's "normal" meaning refers to paranoid schizophrenia. Insanity in other words. I'm having a hard time thinking of a scenario where calling someone paranoid is a neutral statement.

As for Mr. Literal, in this case the meaning hasn't even changed, only softened.

[The Preacher]

[Murn]

Phew teh drama from just a question on my behalf, sorry for that.

I'm a semi old fart that has been playing from C64 to the common day PC games, and I don't like this Echelon mentality that Steam 'provides' and that's why I was asking. I have a full serverpark at home and I have no problems running any of the stuff but I'm old skool and I don't like that I can't access and edit and snoop around in my save games on MY PC, that's why I hate Steam and try to steer clear of it. 'Luckily' I'm mostly in to MMORPG's and am hooked on Everquest so this isn't an issue. In the rare exception when I actually buy a single player game I tend to fall for strategy and RPG's and well the Steam question sprung from the fact that I'm probably an old fart and that I can't or won't accept 'hosting (save)games' on other PC's than my own.

And just for the record not any of my comments here are aimed at anyone in any negative way, I find OO to be a nice forum with a good mature bunch that gives a good variety of topics to delve into even before the big serverbreakdown earlier this year, If I recall correctly.

[GreenGoo]

...the fact that I'm probably an old fart and that I can't or won't accept 'hosting (save)games' on other PC's than my own.

Er, what? What games are saving on external servers (that aren't MMO's of some sort)? Nothing I'm playing does that to the best of my knowledge, but I admit I rarely look at save games outside of the game itself.

Drama is how we keep ourselves awake. Don't worry about it.

[IceBear]

Yeah, that's what I didn't understand either - your Savegames should be local. Steam does store some stuff server side as well (games that use the Steam cloud) so if you log in from another PC non-PC specific settings are loaded from the server, but all that stuff should be local too.

Edit: I've been gaming since the TRS-80 so I understand what you mean about being an old-fart set in your ways

[Greybriar]

....I can't or won't accept 'hosting (save)games' on other PC's than my own....

If you are running Windows Vista (not sure about 7), it will hide your saved games from you. I use Windows Vista and I just learned the other day to go to the game folder and there should be a button that says "Compatibility Files". By clicking on it you will go to the location. Thanks go to Scryder (10th post in the thread).

I am no lover of Steam or any other gaming service, but I couldn't let them take a bum rap.

[Buatha]

Back on topic, I didn't notice anyone mentioning about expansions to games. I don't believe they play nice when purchasing a game from one service and an expanion on another.

[Zurai]

Depends on the game and the service. Frex, I've got Civ 4 and Warlords on physical CD and Beyond the Sword on Direct 2 Drive, and it works fine (except I have to get D2D patches).

[Smoove_B]

Hello old thread -- nice to see you. What's that? You have an update from Stardock?

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion has crushed the existing records at Stardock to become the fastest-selling title in the company's history. Since the release of Sins: Rebellion in mid June 2012, Stardock has sold over 100,000 units. The game is the first major Stardock game not released at retail, and instead, it was released initially via Steam, GameStop, and direct from Stardock. Additionally, Steam sell-through of Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion in the first 30 days beat the combined sell-through of all physical retailers during the same period for the original Sins of a Solar Empire.

[Pyperkub]

Hello old thread -- nice to see you. What's that? You have an update from Stardock?

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion has crushed the existing records at Stardock to become the fastest-selling title in the company's history. Since the release of Sins: Rebellion in mid June 2012, Stardock has sold over 100,000 units. The game is the first major Stardock game not released at retail, and instead, it was released initially via Steam, GameStop, and direct from Stardock. Additionally, Steam sell-through of Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion in the first 30 days beat the combined sell-through of all physical retailers during the same period for the original Sins of a Solar Empire.

The other piece that's huge:

"When we combine our direct sales of Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion with the sales from GameStop, we see unit sales similar to what we've seen previously when at retail.

In other words - All of the discounts for previous owners required purchase from Stardock directly (or Gamestop/Impulse I think), so they are not included in the Steam numbers.

[Zarathud]

Wow. So that's double prior retail sales? It would seem so if steam for 30 days = retail and direct sales + gamestop = retail.

[Smoove_B]

I'm actually more curious to hear them talk about how much money they made selling the original Sins Trilogy and Gal Civ 2 for $4.99 on STEAM during this last sale.

[GreenGoo]

I'm actually more curious to hear them talk about how much money they made selling the original Sins Trilogy and Gal Civ 2 for $4.99 on STEAM during this last sale.

+1.

[Queuectax]

Spammity

[Moat_Man]

What a timely thread necro. Thanks spambot!

So who's wallet is being sucked into the Steam Autumn sale? I've managed to resist this time out and only buy $7 worth of games for Moat_Boy. All games were at 75% off and they are all games I had in my account but now that he has his own Steam account I am "forced" to fill it up.

[GreenGoo]

Sigh. A thread I would prefer stayed dead.

[Carpet_pissr]

Sigh. A thread I would prefer stayed dead.

Hmmm, I haven't seen The Preacher around these parts since....this thread.

Did you consume him, GG? Or maybe....POISON?!

[Zarathud]

Perhaps he lost it when Stardock sold to Gamestop.

[GreenGoo]

I think he lurks here on occasion.