Walking Dead WW signups (GAME ON in other thread)

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue May 30, 2017 3:36 pm

Unagi wrote:being the resident "dick" about th

I still love you "dick"...wait, that didn't sound right.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue May 30, 2017 3:37 pm

Thank you, I truly appreciate that.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Tue May 30, 2017 3:39 pm

Unagi wrote:
Unagi wrote:Sorry to proclaim this here -- franky of all places -- but I will no longer play in a game with tru1cy.

If he signs up for this game (or any other that I sign up for) I respectfully "UN-Sign Up" for it.
I super apologize for any crunchi-ness this proprieties , but I'm done playing with people that religiously don't play.

D. O. N. E. done.
Ah this.

Yeah. whatever, I stand by it. I'm just totally tired of watching 13/14 people basically play (with various levels of involvement) and yet tru1cy continues to constantly sign up and then just ignore the game entirely. It's not in the spirit of these games AT ALL, and well - sorry, I honestly think I'm doing "The Game" a favor by being the resident "dick" about this, I guess. So enjoy your "IMO Unagi is being a little harsh, but the concern he's raising (people joining but not actually participating) is a real concern". The 'real concern' needs to be dealt with, IMO.

No you were not a dick (but as El G said maybe slightly harsh) but I think you said what we were all thinking (or most of us anyway) and it needed to be said, those game works by participation and mistakes (like mine and Scoop) so I have no idea why you'd want to play if you're not playing...

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Tue May 30, 2017 3:40 pm

No I get it, tru1cy has low participation some games etc. So have most of us from time to time. Personally, I'm not too bothered by low participation-players in general as I think of it as part of the game.

To be clear, the reason I'm calling it "bullshit" is because it's being discussed in an open thread instead of in PM:s. It's bad form and bullying. It bothers me. Maybe you don't see it that way, which is fine. Have a nice game. Maybe I'll join another game in the future (assuming I'll live up to your standards).

If low participation by a specific player bothers you, discuss it in PM:s. If you want to discuss the effects of low participation in general, by all means, create a thread for it.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue May 30, 2017 3:45 pm

And, I'm not upset with you El G. for saying it was 'harsh', but really - I've had enough of it. Eventually the camel's back does break. I've seen him play like this really for years. (with precious few exceptions)... So, I honestly wanted to explain myself ahead of time - if he were to sign up... And yeah - I didn't say it nicely. I guess I said it 'harshly', but that's what a made-up-mind sounds like.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue May 30, 2017 3:46 pm

Lagom Lite wrote:No I get it, tru1cy has low participation some games etc. So have most of us from time to time..

Nope - that's not it. Not the same thing here.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue May 30, 2017 3:53 pm

Lagom Lite wrote:assuming I'll live up to your standards.

Oh, you will do fine - our standards are NEARLY non existent. (no, I know... I got your sarcasm...)

I somewhat-agree with and I'm not totally comfortable with the 'bully' aspect here... However - I don't know how else to address this but Publicly. I've had PM's with just about everyone here that's ever modded a game about this.

And, honestly - tru1cy doesn't want to change or be told to change, etc... So I am just not going to play in games where he signs up.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue May 30, 2017 3:59 pm

Unagi wrote:
Unagi wrote:Sorry to proclaim this here -- franky of all places -- but I will no longer play in a game with tru1cy.

If he signs up for this game (or any other that I sign up for) I respectfully "UN-Sign Up" for it.
I super apologize for any crunchi-ness this proprieties , but I'm done playing with people that religiously don't play.

D. O. N. E. done.
Ah this.

Yeah. whatever, I stand by it. I'm just totally tired of watching 13/14 people basically play (with various levels of involvement) and yet tru1cy continues to constantly sign up and then just ignore the game entirely. It's not in the spirit of these games AT ALL, and well - sorry, I honestly think I'm doing "The Game" a favor by being the resident "dick" about this, I guess. So enjoy your "IMO Unagi is being a little harsh, but the concern he's raising (people joining but not actually participating) is a real concern". The 'real concern' needs to be dealt with, IMO.

I didn't say that you were being unfair or unreasonable, just that "I refuse to ever again play with tru1cy" is necessarily harsh (but again, not necessarily unfair). Also I was reaching out to Lagom, who obviously disagrees with you here, hopefully to get him to join the dialogue on the real issue that you're raising here, and acknowledging what I am guessing is one of his concerns here is part of that. Also I do worry about "I refuse to play with X", even regarding a valid issue, is a little dangerous insofar as it could easily spiral out of control and splinter the WW player base. Already Lagom may be out as a result, for example.

Anyway, I'm a little baffled by your tone as to me, especially the "enjoy your" part. I don't even disagree with you, but apparently "harsh" is beyond the pale in discussion.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Tue May 30, 2017 4:04 pm

Lagom Lite wrote:No I get it, tru1cy has low participation some games etc. So have most of us from time to time. Personally, I'm not too bothered by low participation-players in general as I think of it as part of the game.

To be clear, the reason I'm calling it "bullshit" is because it's being discussed in an open thread instead of in PM:s. It's bad form and bullying. It bothers me. Maybe you don't see it that way, which is fine. Have a nice game. Maybe I'll join another game in the future (assuming I'll live up to your standards).

If low participation by a specific player bothers you, discuss it in PM:s. If you want to discuss the effects of low participation in general, by all means, create a thread for it.

No. I like the fact we are discussing it here. This gives Tru1cy a chance to respond to the accusations being made publicly. His lack of participation affected a lot of people and it is not like this is the first time. If there was a reason, even if he came in and said, "Sorry, I had some personal things come up and couldn't play" that would be fine by me. I like Tru1cy personally, but that doesn't mean I have to like what he put the rest of the players (or the mod) through last game. Nor should we ignore the fact that this type of game play has become the norm for him.

Lagom, we are not on a witch hunt or wish anyone ill, but we are trying to set some really loose standards of what is expected from a player. And that should be discussed out in the open.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Tue May 30, 2017 4:08 pm

bb2112 wrote:
Lagom Lite wrote:No I get it, tru1cy has low participation some games etc. So have most of us from time to time. Personally, I'm not too bothered by low participation-players in general as I think of it as part of the game.

To be clear, the reason I'm calling it "bullshit" is because it's being discussed in an open thread instead of in PM:s. It's bad form and bullying. It bothers me. Maybe you don't see it that way, which is fine. Have a nice game. Maybe I'll join another game in the future (assuming I'll live up to your standards).

If low participation by a specific player bothers you, discuss it in PM:s. If you want to discuss the effects of low participation in general, by all means, create a thread for it.
No. I like the fact we are discussing it here. This gives Tru1cy a chance to respond to the accusations being made publicly. His lack of participation affected a lot of people and it is not like this is the first time. If there was a reason, even if he came in and said, "Sorry, I had some personal things come up and couldn't play" that would be fine by me. I like Tru1cy personally, but that doesn't mean I have to like what he put the rest of the players (or the mod) through last game. Nor should we ignore the fact that this type of game play has become the norm for him.

Lagom, we are not on a witch hunt or wish anyone ill, but we are trying to set some really loose standards of what is expected from a player. And that should be discussed out in the open.

Yeah it's far from being the first time we've had a bit of this discussion , it usually happens in game regarding him and to an extent Grund as well though he did pop here and there a bit more often but it was especially bad last game at a critical point in the game where it could potentially have changed the fate of the game (let's say he was Appolo just for the sake of discussion).

I understand the frustration.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue May 30, 2017 4:09 pm

First - I can't help myself....

I didn't mean to say "you had better not label me as 'Harsh'..." (it's not beyond the pale)...

I guess I was saying that I didn't know how else to deal with it - and that you could enjoy "talking about the very real concern" - as I felt I was doing the only thing that eventually one could do... Begging tru1cy to Play More - is all I ever do.
It was as if you had said my actions were not measured to the problem, and I was trying to tell you to have fun fleshing out the problem - that I was done with that.

If Kinettikid (sic) signed-up for a game I was signed-up to play, I would likely un-sign-up for that too (and I'd advise others to)

Honestly, I just wonder why tru1cy even signs up for these things. As he really really doesn't seem to play them.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Tue May 30, 2017 4:16 pm

Sorry we highjacked your thread, Newcastle, but I do think this discussion is important. It seems by the participation a few others do as well.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Tue May 30, 2017 4:23 pm

I was actually gonna come in and ask a new thread be created

Dont mind the discussion, just prefer it elsewhere.

I will say this also. I get what Lagom is saying, it kind of does seem like bullying without context. I also seriously wonder if cultural norms are coming into play here. The US prides itself on direct communications. While I think European communication is more indirect and less confrontational, kind of working together to get better. Just wondering.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue May 30, 2017 4:43 pm

The context is clear.

MIA for extended periods (the weekend people, my daily No OO at work, people taking vacations) is and has always been understood.
But I also feel this was over the top MIA.

(and Unagi, kinetickid and his family lived with us while he was getting back on his for around three years, I still see him at least once a month and play games... but I agree with the sentiment there too)

Is this piling on or chiming in?

Guess it depends on your reading of it.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue May 30, 2017 5:05 pm

I'm curious about the 14-day Day 1 with a Day start.

In general (not just this game), what's the point of that? Doesn't it just mean we spend two weeks hoping someone makes a slip but with literally no data to work with?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue May 30, 2017 5:10 pm

Holman wrote:I'm curious about the 14-day Day 1 with a Day start.

In general (not just this game), what's the point of that? Doesn't it just mean we spend two weeks hoping someone makes a slip but with literally no data to work with?

More time to run everyone up the flagpole.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Tue May 30, 2017 5:45 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
Holman wrote:I'm curious about the 14-day Day 1 with a Day start.

In general (not just this game), what's the point of that? Doesn't it just mean we spend two weeks hoping someone makes a slip but with literally no data to work with?
More time to run everyone up the flagpole.

Yeah right, we all know once a train start that person is dead by the hour.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Tue May 30, 2017 5:56 pm

Holman wrote:I'm curious about the 14-day Day 1 with a Day start.

In general (not just this game), what's the point of that? Doesn't it just mean we spend two weeks hoping someone makes
a slip but with literally no data to work with?

Not mandatory, just giving a general feel for how long the time limits will be. I've been thinking it over though and I think I will do this: give a 10-14 day time limit depending on where we are in the game. Then if i think you folks need it will give 1 additional 48 hour time limit. I dont want to enforce it, but figure its a good cudgel to have in case.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Tue May 30, 2017 5:57 pm

Vorret wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:
Holman wrote:I'm curious about the 14-day Day 1 with a Day start.

In general (not just this game), what's the point of that? Doesn't it just mean we spend two weeks hoping someone makes a slip but with literally no data to work with?
More time to run everyone up the flagpole.
Yeah right, we all know once a train start that person is dead by the hour.

Unless they are 'special'.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Tue May 30, 2017 5:58 pm

RMC wrote:
Vorret wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:
Holman wrote:I'm curious about the 14-day Day 1 with a Day start.

In general (not just this game), what's the point of that? Doesn't it just mean we spend two weeks hoping someone makes a slip but with literally no data to work with?
More time to run everyone up the flagpole.
Yeah right, we all know once a train start that person is dead by the hour.
Unless they are 'special'.

Pffft that's a lie I claimed special and still died.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Tue May 30, 2017 5:59 pm

Vorret wrote:
RMC wrote:
Vorret wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:
Holman wrote:I'm curious about the 14-day Day 1 with a Day start.

In general (not just this game), what's the point of that? Doesn't it just mean we spend two weeks hoping someone makes a slip but with literally no data to work with?
More time to run everyone up the flagpole.
Yeah right, we all know once a train start that person is dead by the hour.
Unless they are 'special'.
Pffft that's a lie I claimed special and still died.

Your Canadian, you did it wrong.

I'm Red Rocket!!!!

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Tue May 30, 2017 6:02 pm

Question to all:

Can the game sustain the following with 16 players
Survivor seer
protector
shooter
mortician &
masons

Thats 6 specials

And Infected
Shane Seer
Berserker
Beta wolf
Recruit
Infected mortician
That's 5 wolves

11 specials in total out of 16 people..... i think that's a bit much. I think will wait till 17-18ish to add the masons & infected mortician.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Tue May 30, 2017 6:03 pm

Newcastle wrote:Question to all:

Can the game sustain the following with 16 players
Survivor seer
protector
shooter
mortician &
masons

Thats 6 specials

And Infected
Shane Seer
Berserker
Beta wolf
Recruit
Infected mortician
That's 5 wolves

11 specials in total out of 16 people..... i think that's a bit much. I think will wait till 17-18ish to add the masons & infected mortician.

I'm always special. My mommy says so....

But I think you are exactly right with your thoughts. Hold off,11 specials for 15 total is a bit much.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue May 30, 2017 6:07 pm

Wow, yah - like way too much. (IMOO)

Wolves need to hide among villagers.

I could have sworn you said 'a simple game'

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Tue May 30, 2017 6:09 pm

Unagi wrote:Wow, yah - like way too much. (IMOO)

Wolves need to hide among villagers.

I could have sworn you said 'a simple game'

It's just the thresholds were met from what I pointed out. Hence was asking folks to review my rules and such. Right now am against the additions unless there is a surge in folks coming in (honestly i doubt). Also the masons inflate that number. Without em things get more reasonable.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Tue May 30, 2017 6:31 pm

RMC wrote:Your Canadian, you did it wrong.

*You're
Unless you're referring to our local Canadian having a pet Canadian. Everyone should have a pet Canadian. They are super nice!

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue May 30, 2017 7:03 pm

RMC wrote:
Newcastle wrote:Question to all:

Can the game sustain the following with 16 players
Survivor seer
protector
shooter
mortician &
masons

Thats 6 specials

And Infected
Shane Seer
Berserker
Beta wolf
Recruit
Infected mortician
That's 5 wolves

11 specials in total out of 16 people..... i think that's a bit much. I think will wait till 17-18ish to add the masons & infected mortician.
I'm always special. My mommy says so....

But I think you are exactly right with your thoughts. Hold off,11 specials for 15 total is a bit much.

Too much, I would say-6 to8 specials with 15 players. I like to try and keep it around 50%

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue May 30, 2017 7:09 pm

Lassr wrote:
RMC wrote:
Newcastle wrote:Question to all:

Can the game sustain the following with 16 players
Survivor seer
protector
shooter
mortician &
masons

Thats 6 specials

And Infected
Shane Seer
Berserker
Beta wolf
Recruit
Infected mortician
That's 5 wolves

11 specials in total out of 16 people..... i think that's a bit much. I think will wait till 17-18ish to add the masons & infected mortician.
I'm always special. My mommy says so....

But I think you are exactly right with your thoughts. Hold off,11 specials for 15 total is a bit much.
Too much, I would say-6 to8 specials with 15 players. I like to try and keep it around 50%

Yeah, I agree.

Also, regarding the conversion - under the rules, it looks like it is an "anytime" power, except that it must be used by night 2. I would suggest that the village get an in-game notification when the conversion is used ("something suspicious just happened!" or whatever). I think that's important to balancing a conversion power, so that people can compare what people posted before and after the conversion was activated to try to suss out the traitor.

Though I do like that it has to be used in the early game, at least.

Punisher · Post by **Punisher** » Tue May 30, 2017 7:42 pm

Remus West wrote:
Punisher wrote:So...
1) Is this comic or TV?
2) Survivor says trying to get to Atlanta. If so, at that point in both, Carl was not Rick's last blood kin. and in TV, he is still not..
Actually, in the comic, Carl was Rick's last blood kin. Right up until Judith was conceived/born. Laurie was his wife. Not blood.

Damn. You are right! not sure why I thought they were blood kin... May just be because it takes place in the south.

Plus

Spoiler:

Punisher · Post by **Punisher** » Tue May 30, 2017 7:52 pm

Remus West wrote:
Punisher wrote:Just an FYI for everyone..

I am getting shoulder surgery on 6/8, so if the game continues until then and I drop off for a day or so, that's why.

Also, is Ricks power daily or a one shot?
I had mine done 3/30 last year. Torn labrum. What happened with yours to require the knife?

IN!

I had a bad fall at work in Feb... Have multiple issues going on (entire right arm, left should, hand and wrist, right hip lower back). Focus has been on my right arm since I am right handed. MRI showed tear in shoulder and calcium buildups from the inflammation, so they are going in to clean things out.
I have a lot of pain when using my entire right arm. hand, wrist, elbow, shoulder... If I use the computer for basic stuff (web browsing, some emails, reading forums) for more than 2 hours (with frequent breaks), I am in a LOT of pain for most of the day. Even with percocet. completely sucks. I do IT work, so I have been out because of this.. gaming is limited to about 15 minutes and then done for a while. Even sitting doing nothing will randomly cause pain spikes lasting minutes. Happened today at the movies and lasted about 5 minutes. right hand dexterity is off as well. Can't doing any miniature painting and even using the mouse, I'll have to readjust the cursor multiple times to find the right place to click on the screen. Can't seem to get the mouse where I want. Getting an MRI of the left shoulder this week. Right hand MRI didn't show anything, so not sure what the heck is happening there. The doctor said it may be related to the right should issues, so I'm hoping for the best there.
sorry for the rambling.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue May 30, 2017 11:52 pm

El Guapo wrote:
Lassr wrote:
RMC wrote:
Newcastle wrote:Question to all:

Can the game sustain the following with 16 players
Survivor seer
protector
shooter
mortician &
masons

Thats 6 specials

And Infected
Shane Seer
Berserker
Beta wolf
Recruit
Infected mortician
That's 5 wolves

11 specials in total out of 16 people..... i think that's a bit much. I think will wait till 17-18ish to add the masons & infected mortician.
I'm always special. My mommy says so....

But I think you are exactly right with your thoughts. Hold off,11 specials for 15 total is a bit much.
Too much, I would say-6 to8 specials with 15 players. I like to try and keep it around 50%
Yeah, I agree.

Also, regarding the conversion - under the rules, it looks like it is an "anytime" power, except that it must be used by night 2. I would suggest that the village get an in-game notification when the conversion is used ("something suspicious just happened!" or whatever). I think that's important to balancing a conversion power, so that people can compare what people posted before and after the conversion was activated to try to suss out the traitor.

Though I do like that it has to be used in the early game, at least.

Oh, wait -

Conversions? sigh... missed that.

I'd love if that was the power that's added in another game.

Sorry.

Honestly. the root game has a lot of fun built into it. I understand the desire to fill every Thomas's English Muffin with powers, but the conversions toss something I don't like into these games.

I very much feel that there are other people (usually it's the moderator, but I stress that I am not speaking of you, NC) that want an element of total: GOTCHA!!! in there game - but I think that's built in.

I've said it before, I'm just not into the 'conversion' element all that much.

Any chance we can keep that conversion out? man, I hate myself right now.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Wed May 31, 2017 2:33 am

Punisher....get well. That sounds absolutely awful.

re: Percocets. I have been on them on and off for the last year. You can build up a tolerance to them pretty quick. I was using them for about 2 months last year, and by week 4, I could tell a tolerance was building, by week 8 one pill wasn't even coming close to cutting the pain down. Just an fyi. I never abused them, and always kept the dosage the same, but a tolerance very much built.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Wed May 31, 2017 2:45 am

RE: the traitor

So I like the traitor mechanism, and always have. In quick bullet points. I like 'em because:

1. As a wolf you get to choose someone who you want to ride into battle with. I think this adds to a wolves experience more by giving them that choice. Who you choose could for their comfort, their talent or what. But you have the choice. You. I tend to think give a person a more meaningful experience or choice enhances the experience.

2. The recruit will have to change their behavior once they are in the wolf pack. I think this gives a sharp eyed, non powered player an angle to try to crack the mystery of who the wolves are. IE Geez...newcastle was harping about unagi's tell all of day 1 and 2, and not a single word about it here on day 4. What gives?

3. Its limited in scope. This has to happen by night 2. This game could go up to about 5-7 days. Everything gets "locked in" so to speak by day 3. So yes it changes the gameflow, but its near the beginining of it.

4. re: El Guapo's suggestion I'd be very willing to add in a message to the game stating something to the effect "the traitor has been recruited". Gonna sleep on it but most likely will add that.

If there are a lot of people here who feel as strongly and think the traitor should be removed am willing to listen. I think i've taken steps to limit the when the traitoring (is that even a word?) happens.

/passes Unagi a real Muffin with raisins in it, butter, the whole works

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Wed May 31, 2017 7:54 am

Newcastle wrote:

4. re: El Guapo's suggestion I'd be very willing to add in a message to the game stating something to the effect "the traitor has been recruited". Gonna sleep on it but most likely will add that.

I am not a huge fan of the conversion, but I do like the mitigating effects you are putting in place. It is like having another bad guy pretty much at the beginning, but it does give the baddies a choice of who to take into battle with them. It is very powerful if they can figure out who to convert to get a good powered on their team though. I wouldn't mind trying it with your day 2 limitation and El G's suggestion of letting the village know.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Wed May 31, 2017 7:57 am

Oh yes, the traitor message would be awesome. That would stop the, well we have to assume that someone became a bad guy now type things, and know when it happens.

Still powerful, but helps to know when to start looking for changes in people... Hmmm...

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 31, 2017 8:39 am

Lassr wrote:not even logging on at OO for over a week (almost 2 weeks) so he was not even participating in silence but he was active at Gaming Trends

This is the entire issue for me. You have time to post elsewhere but not in the game you signed up to play and due to you choosing to do that you mangle the game dynamic for everyone else.

Frankly, I really like tru1cy. I have had a blast playing with him in the past. If he steps up and plays his usual quiet but present game I'd be fine with it. I simply do not enjoy the game when anyone plays the sign up and disappear route.

Zarathud · Post by **Zarathud** » Wed May 31, 2017 8:40 am

I would create the traitor on night 2/beginning of day 3, set to a flavor text event. That way the wolves have to contend with a change in behavior and the low risk that the humans get lucky. Both of those would encourage an early conversion. The villagers know it happened, but not who.

Villagers will need a way to block/prove -- or unconvert. Maybe a power that begins the same time. Again, that incentivizes the wolf to find and kill the special -- and not to choose someone too obvious or critical to "reprove."

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed May 31, 2017 9:11 am

My main issue is really with an "anytime unknown" conversion in these games, because then literally anyone can be evil at any time regardless of what they have done or said in the past. That basically makes nothing known or provable, which makes WW into random guessing (more than it already is). At least with a notified conversion the village can make deductions around it.

I do also like the night 2 deadline (or making it a night 2 occurrence like Zarathud suggests), because that limits the ability of conversions to nerf specials (i.e. specials can't come out without potentially being instantly converted, nerfing the value of their reveal).

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Wed May 31, 2017 9:13 am

El Guapo wrote:My main issue is really with an "anytime unknown" conversion in these games, because then literally anyone can be evil at any time regardless of what they have done or said in the past. That basically makes nothing known or provable, which makes WW into random guessing (more than it already is). At least with a notified conversion the village can make deductions around it.

I do also like the night 2 deadline (or making it a night 2 occurrence like Zarathud suggests), because that limits the ability of conversions to nerf specials (i.e. specials can't come out without potentially being instantly converted, nerfing the value of their reveal).

I think the two lawyers are on to something, and I approve their messages.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed May 31, 2017 9:13 am

I like the mechanic where only a certain special role is convertible and the bad guys need to find that player to gain the conversion - ala Mara Jade.