Windows 11

[Victoria Raverna]

Just for fun, I decided to try out their PC Health Checker, and right off the bat, my processor (i5 660) is no longer supported , doesn't feature secure boot or TPM 2.0. Not surprised at all given my board and processor are 9 years old.

Wow. i5 660 was a generation behind Sandy Bridge so doesn't support avx instructions extension which is required by some newer games or their DRM.

Yeah, I'm quite behind the times. At 9 years old, I'm definitely due for an upgrade, but then the pandemic happened sending electronic prices surging. And surprisingly, it runs very well for the most part, but I do find myself getting bottlenecked.

My previous gaming PC had i5 2500K which is one generation newer than i5 660. Bottlenecked GTX 1060 6 GB so a few years ago I replaced it with new PC with i5 9400F which showed how much my gaming fps was bottlenecked by the i5 2500K. Last year I upgraded to RTX 3060 Ti and bottlenecked by CPU again. Probably for next computer or CPU upgrade, I'll not get the lowest end i5 processor again. Maybe spend some more and get at least i7.

[Rumpy]

I upgraded to a 1050 Ti not too long ago. And yeah, I considered it an upgrade because the card I had at the time was way below that. I forget what it was even. I know it's considered outdated even now, but it's been helping quite a bit. Been playing Sleeping Dogs without any issues, for example. But it sounds like my CPU might be bottlenecking me much the same way as it was with yours.

[Blackhawk]

My Ryzen 5 3600 is eligible for upgrade, but I'm hesitant to have one machine on the network on a different OS than the rest. It's hard enough to get them to play nice together as it is.

[Zaxxon]

My Ryzen 5 3600 is eligible for upgrade, but I'm hesitant to have one machine on the network on a different OS than the rest. It's hard enough to get them to play nice together as it is.

For purposes of networking compatibility, Windows 11 is Windows 10. It's both figuratively (could have been a feature update like the prior ones) and literally (its build number is 10) true.

I've been interoperating 10 and 11 on the same network since the first Insider build hit.

The name change to 11, and updated system requirements, are a marketing decision.

Back to the prior bitching-about-the-requirements topic, I had to reduce my umbrage when I looked up the invoice for my current CyberPower rig, and realized that I ordered it in late 2016, not 2018. My old-man memory capacity sucks! The machine is still a beast for my needs, so I have no imminent plans to upgrade.

Another thing that sucks is that the Insider program happily allowed everyone to move to Windows 11, but now strands non-compatible PCs with a message to pull and manually install Windows 10. Thus far I've continued to receive normal updates on that rig, but new Insider builds have been withheld. Not a big deal, and yes, I assumed the risk of something like this happening when choosing to join the Insider program with a non-test rig. But come on, MS, how hard would it have been to pop an opt-out warning before moving a machine into an unsupported state with no path to compliance short of a full-on wipe?

[gbasden]

I heard that 77% of PCs aren't capable of running Windows 11. Maybe this is an attempt to jump start a torpid market where people are getting by with old machines?

I hope my 6-month old laptop will run it, but keep in mind; every other Windows major release is a failure. Think Vista or Windows 8. The OS needs to really up the user experience with new hardware to be successful. Since my laptop wasn't designed for it, even if it can run it, I can't imagine it will run it well.

The big goal is security - that's where the TPM requirement comes in. The processor requirement is set to those that support the modern Windows Driver model. As long as your laptop meets those, it will run fine. My 5 year old HP Studio laptop runs 11 as well as it ever did 10.

[Jeff V]

Why does this have to be a separate release (aside from the cash grab)? Are they not capable of release an update that only supports hardware components on the target machine? I wouldn't have a problem with it if they hadn't previously declared that Windows 10 would be the end-all, be-all. I replaced an 8-year old, originally Windows 8 laptop with a Windows 10 laptop earlier this year. Had I known a new version of Windows would be forthcoming so quickly, I might have waited...

[Victoria Raverna]

Why does this have to be a separate release (aside from the cash grab)? Are they not capable of release an update that only supports hardware components on the target machine? I wouldn't have a problem with it if they hadn't previously declared that Windows 10 would be the end-all, be-all. I replaced an 8-year old, originally Windows 8 laptop with a Windows 10 laptop earlier this year. Had I known a new version of Windows would be forthcoming so quickly, I might have waited...

How can it be a cash grab if it is free for people to upgrade from Windows 10? I don't think of it as a separate Window 11 OS. It is just a branch of Windows 10. My guess is if Windows 11 fails then they'll go back to keep supporting Windows 10 after 2025 dan maybe backport some of the Windows 11 features like AutoHDR to Windows 10.

[Formix]

So, my PC is compatible, and I don't really see any reason not to upgrade. What's the hivemind's call. Do we have a Go/No Go for 11?

[Blackhawk]

I got the upgrade notification a few days ago. I game on my system. That puts me firmly in Camp Waitawhile.

[malchior]

I'm in the wait camp. There is no real advantage to it yet. The main disadvantage is people are reporting some stability issues. The ballyhooed performance differences for gaming between 10/11 are actually pretty negligible. If anything, random write performance is a little better with Windows 11 but the jury is out on it. Several outlets have run different configurations through testing to prove this out. However, there is a strong caveat that this is not true if VBS (a security feature) is enabled. It can and probably should be disabled for most home users in Windows 11. It tanks game performance significantly.

[Blackhawk]

Performance aside, a lot of utilities and third party gaming 'extras' (background apps, custom drivers, etc) don't work right under Win11 yet. Like you said, there are no advantages, while there are plenty of potential problems. It might be different if you simply do out-of-the-box gaming, but I don't. I modify and tweak a lot of what I play, and while 11 might be OK, it just makes sense for me to wait until the rest of the software I use has time to update, test, and update some more under 11.

And the potential advantages are lessened severely by the fact that only one out of the six PCs in my house is able to be upgraded. There's no security benefit in that.

[Hamlet3145]

I installed Windows 11 on my Media PC and it promptly broke my 5.1 surround sound. After 30 minutes of troubleshooting I rolled back to Windows 10. Will try again sometime next year.

[Kraken]

FWIW the Boston Globe's tech writer, Hiawatha Bray, reviewed his upgrade experience and concluded that he would rather have spent his Saturday afternoon watching football. It was a hassle and the only noticeable payoff was some questionable interface changes -- Start button in the middle of the task bar...who asked for that?

One of my machines doesn't support Win11 and I didn't even bother checking the other one, because I simply don't want it.

[Carpet_pissr]

I really don't understand why ANYone is upgrading at this point? If you can even call it that?

[Zaxxon]

It would be interesting to track the historical curmudgeonliness of the OO populace by major Windows release.

[infinitelurker]

Start button in the middle of the task bar...who asked for that?

I initially had the same thought, but upon some reflection I'm wondering if it has to do with the growing prevalence of large, wide/ultrawide monitors. Centering things brings the Start button closer to where the mouse is more often. That said, it would be nice if there was the the option to toggle it back to the left...

Edit: Obviously I haven't upgraded yet, because there is an option to toggle it back to the left.

[Blackhawk]

It would be interesting to track the historical curmudgeonliness of the OO populace by major Windows release.

No doubt there'd be some correspondence to the overall drop in trust of tech companies over the past 15 years, combined with multiple experiences as an 'early adopter' discovering the the shiny new features promised are usually either totally useless, or cause even more problems than they solve.

[hitbyambulance]

i can adapt to arbitrary UI changes just fine (i have to be conversant in several different UIs and the command line for Linux as well as OS X, Windows... iOS, Android..... random Chinese front-ends...) but i am prettty afraid Microsoft has ratched up the telemetry in this one. so my paranoia level keeps increasing, for sure...

[paulbaxter]

I installed it last night. Went pretty smoothly with a minimal amount of baby sitting. Had to manually close a couple of running apps and what not. I was watching tv, and just checked on it from time to time over a couple of hours. I'm sure it would be much faster if you stayed on top of it.

Nothing feels too different so far other than things being in different spots on the task bar. I suppose it's nice that it will be able to run android apps. And they seem to have removed some things that I never wanted or used (Cortana). Otherwise it just looks like a facelift so far.

[Exodor]

I initially had the same thought, but upon some reflection I'm wondering if it has to do with the growing prevalence of large, wide/ultrawide monitors. Centering things brings the Start button closer to where the mouse is more often. That said, it would be nice if there was the the option to toggle it back to the left...

Edit: Obviously I haven't upgraded yet, because there is an option to toggle it back to the left.

The problem for me isn't the location of the start button but the start menu - it's awful in Windows11. It's a fixed size and half the window is dedicated to showing recently used files. You can turn that off - but you don't get that window space back, it just stays empty. It's hot garbage.

[Carpet_pissr]

It would be interesting to track the historical curmudgeonliness of the OO populace by major Windows release.

FWIW, my brief history of Windows experiences:

Don’t remember if I hated 3.1 or not, but I DO remember loving DOS, almost exclusively through the lens of being a gamer at the time. I do remember quite a bit of instability with 3.1.

The next version I remember was NT, which I loved (for stability, this time from a work perspective).

98 I can’t really remember (net positive I think) but when something got borked on my home desktop install, I upgraded to ME for a very brief stint, which fixed the issue. I was fine with ME as well.

7 I absolutely loved as a home user and gamer. By far my most beloved Windows. Absolutely zero problems, rock solid, lovely to game on, great for both home and work etc.

10 was when my complaining started I guess, but only bc I didn’t see any real benefit. I upgraded like a good little boy…and it hasn’t been problematic for me, but certainly nowhere near as smooth or stable as 7, and definitely less intuitive.

I very much got the vibe of ‘we’re making these changes to make 10 seem new and fresh, even though functionally these things work perfectly (and better!) in 7.’

[Victoria Raverna]

I initially had the same thought, but upon some reflection I'm wondering if it has to do with the growing prevalence of large, wide/ultrawide monitors. Centering things brings the Start button closer to where the mouse is more often. That said, it would be nice if there was the the option to toggle it back to the left...

Edit: Obviously I haven't upgraded yet, because there is an option to toggle it back to the left.

The problem for me isn't the location of the start button but the start menu - it's awful in Windows11. It's a fixed size and half the window is dedicated to showing recently used files. You can turn that off - but you don't get that window space back, it just stays empty. It's hot garbage.

I treated the Start Menu page like phone or tablet's home page. After I organized it, I like it better than Windows 10's. I have 3 pages of applications. Daily use non gaming items are in the first page, gaming related items are in second page, other important and but less used items are in third page.

[malchior]

The problem for me isn't the location of the start button but the start menu - it's awful in Windows11. It's a fixed size and half the window is dedicated to showing recently used files. You can turn that off - but you don't get that window space back, it just stays empty. It's hot garbage.

To be fair the Start Menu in Windows 10 is hot garbage too. They just made the garbage hotter.

[Kraken]

The problem for me isn't the location of the start button but the start menu - it's awful in Windows11. It's a fixed size and half the window is dedicated to showing recently used files. You can turn that off - but you don't get that window space back, it just stays empty. It's hot garbage.

To be fair the Start Menu in Windows 10 is hot garbage too. They just made the garbage hotter.

First thing I do on a new machine is install Classic Start Menu. Gives you a customizable Win7-style start menu. Dunno if it will work in Win11; the developer abandoned it in 2017, but it works just fine in Win10.

[Victoria Raverna]

I don't see the need to get the "Classic Start Menu" because if you want that, you can find it in Windows 10 or Windows 11. The Windows 10/11 start menu is just for your favorite applications, you can still find all the other applications in a menu for all programs that function like the "classic start menu".

[Octavious]

My I7-7700 isn't supported so I won't be moving to 11 for a while. Kind of ridiculous that a relatively newer CPU that can still murder new games can't run Windows 11. Whatevvvveerrrr

[Kraken]

Yeah, my minuscule corner of the world is greeting Win11 with a hearty "ho hum." I expect we'll see Win12 before 11 gains any real penetration. And they'll call it Win20, because why not?

[Pyperkub]

I really don't understand why ANYone is upgrading at this point? If you can even call it that?

I want to upgrade my Surface Pro 6 for the Surface/Touch enhancements, but it isn't released to my Windows Update yet. Haven't gone down the manual update rabbit hole yet. Did see that a number of bugfix/ UI patches are already scheduled.

[coopasonic]

My PC is telling me it is time. I guess they think since Daehawk finally went to 10 the rest of us should start moving on.

[Daehawk]

Dont forget the bathtub curve. Win11 isn't worked out yet. Just imagine the high left is new tech and software.....bottom flat is the bugs worked out and stable life.....right uphill is increasing failure rates again...plus you can view it as costs...left high new item....middle lower costs....right up higher cost cause its harder to come by years later.

[Lassr]

My new computer comes with Win11, that was the only way I was getting it. 10 was working fine for me on my current PC.

[Victoria Raverna]

Dont forget the bathtub curve. Win11 isn't worked out yet. Just imagine the high left is new tech and software.....bottom flat is the bugs worked out and stable life.....right uphill is increasing failure rates again...plus you can view it as costs...left high new item....middle lower costs....right up higher cost cause its harder to come by years later.

Windows 11 isn't really new tech. It is mostly a new version of Windows 10.

I am running Windows 11 on my gaming PC since September 30th and Windows 11 is very stable.

[Zaxxon]

Yeah, this is nothing like the jumps to XP, Vista, or 7. Win 11 is literally still Windows 10.

[Rumpy]

If not for the security requirement making some hardware incompatible, I'd ordinarily agree. For some, it's pretty major.

[Zaxxon]

If not for the security requirement making some hardware incompatible, I'd ordinarily agree. For some, it's pretty major.

Sure, on a binary can/can't upgrade scale. I'm talking about worries that random issues will crop up. It's exactly akin to the 21H2, 20H2, 1909, etc feature updates.

[Victoria Raverna]

If not for the security requirement making some hardware incompatible, I'd ordinarily agree. For some, it's pretty major.

It is not a real requirement. It is a requirement to install but not to run.

Microsoft stop users from installing Windows 11 if the PC doesn't have certain security features but it doesn't stop people from running it because Windows 11 doesn't need those features. It is just a branch of Windows 10.

[Rumpy]

If not for the security requirement making some hardware incompatible, I'd ordinarily agree. For some, it's pretty major.

It is not a real requirement. It is a requirement to install but not to run.

Microsoft stop users from installing Windows 11 if the PC doesn't have certain security features but it doesn't stop people from running it because Windows 11 doesn't need those features. It is just a branch of Windows 10.

Yeah, but for people on older hardware, some like me don't even get the option to install it. My hardware isn't supported any longer. Doesn't meet the minimum system requirements.

[JCC]

So on a whim, last night I put this on my personal laptop which I use primarily for web browsing. It's mostly... fine... I guess. It doesn't seem to be slower or anything.

I did pretty quickly decide I didn't like the centered Start Menu. In fact, I pretty much just don't like the new Start Menu at all. The fact that I had to download a hack to get it to always show "All Apps" is ridiculous. I also find it annoying that I can't resize it. Why did MS remove customization options like this? I also haven't figured out a way to use small icons on the task bar which is annoying though not a deal breaker...

I guess I don't really see the point of this upgrade.

[Anonymous Bosch]

So on a whim, last night I put this on my personal laptop which I use primarily for web browsing. It's mostly... fine... I guess. It doesn't seem to be slower or anything.

I did pretty quickly decide I didn't like the centered Start Menu. In fact, I pretty much just don't like the new Start Menu at all. The fact that I had to download a hack to get it to always show "All Apps" is ridiculous. I also find it annoying that I can't resize it. Why did MS remove customization options like this? I also haven't figured out a way to use small icons on the task bar which is annoying though not a deal breaker...

I guess I don't really see the point of this upgrade.

It wouldn't surprise me if the motivation for the creation of Windows 11 in the first place largely originated from OEM PC vendors eager for an incentive to drive sales. So, perhaps the point is mostly a contrivance to drive sales for OEM PC vendors. "Your sad old hardware does not allow you to easily upgrade to Windows 11? Discard that rubbish, and buy one of our shiny new PCs!"

Unless one happens to find the notion of rounded windows and a centrally-located Start menu incredibly compelling, as the following video indicates, there's currently scarcely any incentive to upgrade from Windows 10 to Windows 11 on a gaming PC anyway:

[Anonymous Bosch]

If rounded windows and a centralized start button weren't sufficient to persuade you into upgrading to Windows 11, here's another marvellous Windows 'improvement' you didn't know you needed…

Windows 11 Pro Will Soon Require a Microsoft Account, and People Are Pissed

The OS will also require users to be connected to the internet during the setup process.

Microsoft will soon force Windows 11 Pro users to create a Microsoft account and be connected to the internet for the initial setup process. The new requirements mirror those for Windows 11 Home, which has required an internet connection and account since it launched in October of last year.

Once the changes go into place, Windows 11 will be the only major operating system to require an account to gain access to basic functions. Apple’s macOS allows you to create a local account during setup and Android will similarly get you to the home screen without sign-in. Even Chrome OS, a cloud-centric operating system, has a guest mode for basic browsing without an account.

“Similar to Windows 11 Home edition, Windows 11 Pro edition now requires internet connectivity during the initial device setup (OOBE) only,” Microsoft wrote in a Windows Insider blog post. “If you choose to setup [a] device for personal use, MSA will be required for setup as well.”

As Ars Technica notes, the rule shouldn’t impact those who already have a configured local account or those who use a custom username and password to log in to work PCs. Regardless, users are already infuriated, noting how the login condition will make it more difficult to donate or sell computers, image hundreds of systems (as is required at some companies), or set up a computer for someone else. It also gives Microsoft a method to gather more data on users.

“The most annoying part about this is as a PC repair shop owner my techs now have to get people’s M$ account info just to reset/reformat a computer now. Or we need the customer to come in and sign in, then we can finish the repair.” one Reddit user noted.

Scores of people on social media have threatened to use a different operating system or delay updating to Windows 11. Others are already thinking of workarounds.

“Always skip every other Windows version. Windows 10 is great, not upgrading anytime soon and not just because my computer is too old,” one wrote. “My desire to install Linux is growing every day,” another user said.

“I figured I’d eventually need to upgrade to Win11, someday. This makes me say never if the requirement actually occurs,” an Ars Technica reader wrote in the site’s comments section. “WTF is the point of “Pro” if a professional can’t make decisions about accounts and use it how they want. We’re paying for the ability to have more control after all!”

“Windows 11 Pro will soon force me to install Linux,” another quipped.