Octopus Overlords

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:38 pm**

Decoy mechs make wish for an Uberm... err... Urbanmech

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:47 pm**

NickAragua wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:33 pm
TotallyNotEvil wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:12 pm Nick, I think I have a clear LoS to 0934, don't I? It's not adjacent to the hills, and no woods between us.
You're sitting in depth 1 water with a height 1 hill in front of you, so not much LOS - you'll have to move out of there if you want LOS.

again. I was looking at his decoy.

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:53 pm**

> ARC-2R DECOY: Moves southwest and fires at whatever is in reach, preferably at the Loki if it can get there.
> ARC-2R: Nothing.
> LICH DECOY: Moves and fires at the 0934 Ryoken. If it can't get close enough, do nothing and move LICH.
> LICH: Nothing. If DECOY can't move, jump to 2829 and LRM the 0934 Ryoken.

Looks good?

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:01 pm**

NickAragua wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:38 pm
TheMix wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:31 pm Hmmm... Looks like I need the Ryoken/Mad Cat to move up 5-6 spaces to be able to target them with the SRM/6. I'm not sure what the movement numbers mean exactly. If they don't move up enough, then I'll need to move THEMIX DECOY to 2030, and fire if allowed/in range.
Basic summary - a "2/3" movement means 2 MP walking, 3 MP running (affects heat build up and shooting penalties). Can't move faster than the running MP (well, you can, but then that's called sprinting and you can't shoot while being easier to hit).

Moving forward one hex into plain terrain is 1 MP, turning one hex-side is 1 MP. Light woods and 1-level elevation changes are an extra 1 MP. So, for example, if you want to move your decoy forward into the light woods, that's 2 MP. Turning your mech one hex side to the right and moving forward 2 hexes is 3 MP.

Range on weapons is given in the stat blocks, e.g. 3/6/9. Meaning short/medium/long range from the shooter's hex to the defender's hex. Can't shoot beyond long range.

GM-wise, if I don't get firing orders or get invalid ones, I'll transform them into something that *can* happen (if something can happen) while keeping the mech under its heat capacity.

Thanks. That helps. And the firing arcs that are showing for my decoy.

So to move my decoy to 2131, by way of 2231, would cost 4 movement (1 hex + 1 hex + 1 height + 1 light woods)?
I think that changes my options for my decoy to either 2132 w/same facing (but exposed), or 2230 w/sw facing. If no one has an opinion, I think the better play is to sacrifice and give up the cover for the chance to attack. (i.e. the first option)

TEAM KURITA
Crusader >> pass
CRD-3R DECOY >> rotate sw; fire AC/5 @ Gargoyle 0921

TEAM US
THEMIX >> pass
THEMIX DECOY >> 2132; fire SRM/6 @ Stormcrow 0934

Hopefully I ... 1) did that correctly, and 2) chose usefully

Edit: Turning my Kurita decoy slightly in case I need better facing next turn.

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:05 pm**

TotallyNotEvil wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:53 pm > ARC-2R DECOY: Moves southwest and fires at whatever is in reach, preferably at the Loki if it can get there.
> ARC-2R: Nothing.
> LICH DECOY: Moves and fires at the 0934 Ryoken. If it can't get close enough, do nothing and move LICH.
> LICH: Nothing. If DECOY can't move, jump to 2829 and LRM the 0934 Ryoken.

Looks good?

It looks like ARC-2R can probably hit without moving. Is it not better to stay in the woods for some cover? That's the logic I was using. Is that wrong?

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:23 pm**

TheMix wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:05 pm It looks like ARC-2R can probably hit without moving. Is it not better to stay in the woods for some cover? That's the logic I was using. Is that wrong?

No no, staying in woods is good. But I think that, woods or not, this thing is dead when they fire anyway. I want to draw the Black Hawk's fire if at all possible, as it's way, way too dangerous to take an alpha from it. If it dumps 84 damage on a mech with 30 points of armor total, well, too bad for it.

Also, I believe I'd be two short of hitting the Man-O-War with a SRM or ML, and even farther away from anything else.

@edit: To clarify, I'm afraid that, if I don't rush in and shoot now, I won't get a chance to do it at all with the decoy. Not with an SRM.

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:24 pm**

Assuming, of course, that the "enemy" is not bright enough to realize that the industrial mechs are bogus as soon as they move out of cover.

And I'm hoping to get 2 shots from my decoy!

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:25 pm**

Isgrimnur Decoy - rotate right, forward into the drink, and lobbing LRMs at anything that appears within a reasonable range.

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2021 7:13 pm**

All my units will hold positions for now

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:18 pm**

Sorry, what are the to hit modifiers for the Clan forces?

And what weapons did my decoys wind up with?

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:25 pm**

Whoops, forgot those. Everything except the Dire Wolf is +3, while the Dire Wolf is +2.

Your decoy has an LRM/5, while the Awesome's decoy has an SRM/6.

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:41 pm**

If my Marauder is firing on the Loki in 0924, are there any forests in between us OTHER than the heavy forest in front of me? I *think* not, but it's hard to say.

Basically what I want to do is have my Marauder stay put and fire its two ER PPCs and Gauss Rifle at the Loki, if there's only the one heavy forest in front of me. If there's more in the LOS, then I'll move up that group of mechs until I hit the first one that only has one forest in the LOS (i.e. the Nobori-nim if there's no extra penalty then the Thor, then the Man O War.

ALSO - Do I understand that we have to choose between doing *anything* for the control mech vs. the decoy mech? Like could I have my main character shoot (but not move) and then have his decoy move (but not shoot)?

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:43 pm**

Also for Kurita forces I'll have the AWS (SRM) decoy turn to the right and move forward as fast as feasible.

Posted: **Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:54 pm**

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:41 pm ALSO - Do I understand that we have to choose between doing *anything* for the control mech vs. the decoy mech? Like could I have my main character shoot (but not move) and then have his decoy move (but not shoot)?

Using RC Tonka-mech takes your entire action allotment.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:45 am**

Waiting for orders from Stefan and Moley, will likely start processing the turn in a few hours.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:17 am**

While we're waiting a little bit for additional orders:

TheMix: Looks like you're going to bump into Lich's loadermech decoy (two mechs can't end their move in the same hex). Any alternate plans?

Isgrimnur: You can't quite make it into the water, that loadermech is pretty slow (2/3 movement, 3 MP cost, but can't run when entering a water hex). Are you ok with just turning right, or do you want to do something else? (realistically speaking it's probably irrelevant as that loadermech is likely to get pasted shortly, but...)

El Guapo: Just to confirm, you want to remain in the same hex, including the intervening heavy woods between yourself and your targets?

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:22 am**

Weeellll.... I'd argue that my instructions overrule his. Since I was explicit. I thought his mech was going to move up to 2133 or 2033. Or he could move to 2032. I guess if the height doesn't make much difference, my mech can move around the hill instead.

Edit: I guess he does out rank me.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:27 am**

NickAragua wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 10:17 am
El Guapo: Just to confirm, you want to remain in the same hex, including the intervening heavy woods between yourself and your targets?

Actually, looking at the terrain master description again, I see that I need to move anyway in order to get the defensive bonus / penalty, so I'll walk forward one hex (into the heavy woods) before firing (as before, targeting mechs from south to north depending on which gives me the best to hit chance).

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:13 pm**

Really really sorry, I'd forgotten to take my turns! Will do imminently

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:17 pm**

I'd like to jump the tbolt to 2923 facing 2823 (southwest).

Also, what weapon did my decoy end up with?

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:27 pm**

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:44 pm
TheMix wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:34 am I was kind of hoping we'd come up with a plan and then place accordingly. It seems a lot more like a free-for-all. So I yield to the master tactician to place me as appropriate if my personal selection was stupid. Also, I have no idea where my Kurita mechs should go.
I will say that Leraje, moleymoleymoley, and TotallyNotEvil seem like the experts here (sounds like they've played plenty of battletech?). So if any of them think that any of us or us collectively are making dumb deployment decisions, if any of them could let us know that would be great.

you are sorely mistaken buddy, I play Megamek a bit but I let it do all the heavy lifting with ranges etc, I just full on charge in and get up to my waist in broken mech bits

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:43 pm**

moleymoleymoley wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:17 pm Also, what weapon did my decoy end up with?

2x medium laser

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:16 pm**

Cool thanks.

A bit of a brain dump:

Our key advantage is always winning initiative, and thus out maneuvering them, especially important at short-range for getting into rear arcs and melee.

Decoys will last half a second under any sort of clan fire. I think that their main use will be additional targets for clan weapons and mobile explosions.

If I were playing this on megamek then what I would be doing is trying to get almost every real mek in heavy cover, then the decoys behind cover (2 woods or 2 height hill) to draw them onto the mines. We absolutely do not want to be taking the fight to them, they'll shred us before we make mid range. I admit that's a fairly conservative way to play though.

Any spare ordinance whilst retreating should be aimed at that Loki, it has thin armour and lots of ammo

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 2:38 pm**

"Ugh, stupid drone. Get into the goddamn water." Isgrimnur grumbles, struggling with getting the dressed-up LoaderMech into the water. He manages to get so far as to turn it in the right direction, but the combination of lag, slippery river slope and crappy LoaderMech actuators designed for walking on warehouse floors rather than riverbanks prevents the mech from getting into the water. Trying to get a shot off at this range isn't happening either.

"You think that's bad, I have to go around this stupid little... " TheMix replies, mentally wrestling with the remote control system as his LoaderMech refuses to move forward past Lich's stationary remote. On the plus side, the SRM launcher is out of range anyway, so it won't make much of a difference. The approaching Ryoken has no such restrictions on its weapons, wrecking LoaderMech right leg, while severing the right arm with a pair of large lasers.

Lich isn't too happy either, being unable to get a shot off on the Ryoken - the clan mech is simply moving too fast and the range is too long, even for the clan-spec PPC his Griffin is packing. His immobile decoy's right arm comes off under pulse laser fire from a Mad Cat, along with all the right torso armor.

Leraje's decoy moves forward, but our mechwarrior rolls his eyes - between the lag and the Ryoken's fast movement, the shot just isn't happening.

Well, let's just say there are some growing pains trying to adjust to the remote control LoaderMechs.

Still, El Guapo manages to land a hit on the approaching Thor, having discarded the Loki and Nobori-Nin as too difficult to hit. The PPC shot grazes a good amount of armor off the left leg, but fails to penetrate. His target breaks left, engaging one of the two Kurita-operated LoaderMechs visible to the north.

Siljanus doesn't bother moving his remote mech, instead choosing to try to fire at an approaching Ryoken to the south, though with little effect.

To the north, weapons fire erupts from the clan mechs approaching the Kurita decoys. One of the Kurita Loadermechs loses an arm and a leg to pulse lasers from a Vulture, dropping to the ground. A pair of LoaderMechs visible from our position take some heavy damage, with one's left arm hanging limp after a PPC blast from the Thor, while another takes a barrage of SRMs from the Man O' War.

Last but not least, WestOrEast's LoaderMech loses an arm to weapons fire from an approaching Loki.

Current battlefield state:

Spoiler:

Raw firing/heat data:

Spoiler:

Hostile target modifiers:
All clan mechs are at +3, except for Daishi and the two northern Mad Cats, which are at +2.

Status update:
Loader Mech (PXH1 DECOY), left leg, right arm destroyed
Loader Mech (TheMix DECOY), right leg, right arm destroyed
Loader Mech (Lich DECOY), right arm destroyed
LoaderMech (CRD-3R DECOY), right arm destroyed
LoaderMech (WestOrEast DECOY), left arm destroyed

Note that the LoaderMechs are not subject to the "forced withdrawal" rule (not that any would be right now, anyway).

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:02 pm**

I'm pleasantly surprised. (Did our instructions get overruled, or is there stuff in the engine that prevented them from happening? I don't mind the former since I consider you (NickA) to be the battlefield commander here. Just curious.)

I definitely didn't expect all the decoys to survive through to the next round. Though it appears I don't have to fret about making movement choices.

Also, I don't see anything for my Kurita decoy instructions. It doesn't look it turned or fired. The Gargoyle looks plenty close enough. Did I miss something?

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:03 pm**

... Can the decoys do melee? And does melee tie up a mech from shooting?

In any case, I think we should take the chance and try to delete that Black Hawk while it's in the open. Most of our mechs can get a shot with our bigger guns.

Mix, maybe try to reverse your decoy to lure the other Thor and Man-O-War over the mines?

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:29 pm**

I'll join in on firing on the Black Hawk with any of my four that in range.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:32 pm**

TotallyNotEvil wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:03 pm Mix, maybe try to reverse your decoy to lure the other Thor and Man-O-War over the mines?

I can try. At least that one still has legs. They are going to blow it to bits long before they get to the mines, but maybe pulling them out of position a bit will keep them out of the woods?

Also, is it worth setting the woods on fire to make them take the open route? Is that a thing that's done?

Edit: So... maybe, instead of backing up, just dropping down two spaces to 2018 and firing the AC/5 to make sure I get their attention?

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:39 pm**

WestorEast wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:29 pm I'll join in on firing on the Black Hawk with any of my four that in range.

It looks like my decoy is probably worth abandoning. The only weapon I have that can reach Nova is my LRM/10, assuming that it doesn't move closer and I don't break cover. I will need to add a rotation if it moves any further south/southeast. But I'm game. I think I have one round before I have to worry about Huntsman and Hellbringer.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:42 pm**

What happens when a decoy explodes? If it's a multi hex thing then leraje and archer decoy could do with overloading and going for a hug with the clanners nearest to them.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:52 pm**

moleymoleymoley wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:42 pm What happens when a decoy explodes? If it's a multi hex thing then leraje and archer decoy could do with overloading and going for a hug with the clanners nearest to them.

Good point. I kind of dismissed that. They will go first, right? The odds of a decoy making it close enough seems slim. I'm more hoping that my down decoy will get ignored and a Clan mech will move up next to it thinking that there is no risk.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:53 pm**

Oh wow I forgot about setting fires

would be a great way to block Los from the ER clan weaponry, I'm thinking to move to 2726, facing south, and fire my LL then LRMs at the black hawk, then maybe a ML at the forest 2425 to try and set it on fire, so the only way they can get shots off at us is to come through the south gap 2528.

Guap and isgrim to move south with us when they get chance?

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:56 pm**

TheMix wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:52 pm
moleymoleymoley wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:42 pm What happens when a decoy explodes? If it's a multi hex thing then leraje and archer decoy could do with overloading and going for a hug with the clanners nearest to them.
Good point. I kind of dismissed that. They will go first, right? The odds of a decoy making it close enough seems slim. I'm more hoping that my down decoy will get ignored and a Clan mech will move up next to it thinking that there is no risk.

IIRC you prime the overload the turn before and it explodes the next turn, would be lovely to get one swarmed by some elementals just before it goes boom

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:02 pm**

Setting woods on fire: yes, you can do it intentionally. Best done with energy weapons - you roll a pretty easy attack roll, then another pretty easy "set on fire" roll (don't remember the numbers off hand), then it catches on fire and generates three adjacent hexes of smoke. In this case, it'll be to the northeast of the hex that's getting set on fire. You can only set woods on fire (on this map, anyway).

Smoke acts exactly like woods for blocking line of sight, but doesn't impede movement. Walking through a fire hex generates 2 heat, standing in it generates 5 heat, so it's not a very major deterrent to clanner double heat sink mechs.

Self destruction: Based on the TacOps rule, we're talking engine rating / 10 (round up) damage to adjacent hexes. Engine rating on these things is not very high (20 tons, 2 walk MP), so the damage is going to be pretty low, but it's something. You declare detonation on your turn and then it (probably, with a PSR) blows up after the following movement phase (with all the weapons fire). Also, any unit in the mech's hex is destroyed and the hex is set on fire (so you can use this to blow up elementals). We'll rule that you can trigger self-destruction without it counting as "moving the mech" (unless you also move the mech), meaning you can hit the self-destruct on a LoaderMech and then drive your own.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:16 pm**

Thanks. I probably should have clarified. I say in your original gameplay notes that it could be done. It was more of a "is this a valid strategy that we should be thinking about doing" thing.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:19 pm**

Oh. Though I did miss "following movement phase" if it was mentioned originally. That makes it a bit more interesting. Might actually be worth turning it into a walking bomb and moving it to the spot you want it to blow up.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 4:35 pm**

TheMix wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:02 pm Also, I don't see anything for my Kurita decoy instructions. It doesn't look it turned or fired. The Gargoyle looks plenty close enough. Did I miss something?

Nevermind. I think this was it. I was just looking for a name.

Weapons fire for LoaderMech AC5-FLU ID:40 (1st Octopus Overlords)
AC/5 at Man O' War (Gargoyle) Prime ID:6 (Clan Smoke Jaguar); needs 11, rolls 8 : missed

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:09 pm**

TotallyNotEvil wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:03 pm ... Can the decoys do melee? And does melee tie up a mech from shooting?

Yes, decoys can do melee. All their weapons are in the torso, so they can punch and kick after shooting as usual. They basically behave exactly as regular mechs, except, on a given turn, you can operate only your mech or the remote-controlled one.

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:16 pm**

NickAragua wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:09 pm
TotallyNotEvil wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 3:03 pm ... Can the decoys do melee? And does melee tie up a mech from shooting?
Yes, decoys can do melee. All their weapons are in the torso, so they can punch and kick after shooting as usual. They basically behave exactly as regular mechs, except, on a given turn, you can operate only your mech or the remote-controlled one.

Sorry about the questions, but I have a couple more

1) Do we block LoS/provide cover to our enemies against our own allies' shooting? Do we provide cover from the enemy to allies behind us?
2) Does melee do anything to make shooting into or out of it harder?

Posted: **Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:24 pm**

TotallyNotEvil wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 5:16 pm 1) Do we block LoS/provide cover to our enemies against our own allies' shooting? Do we provide cover from the enemy to allies behind us?
2) Does melee do anything to make shooting into or out of it harder?

Nope x3

(there's technically a "missed shots" rule in TacOps that lets "stray" shots hit other targets, but it's not implemented in MegaMek)

Octopus Overlords

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