Octopus Overlords

Yet you’re also going to find people who get annoyed if you DON’T use the term African-American. You can’t win.

I don’t mind calling someone what they want to be called once it’s is pointed out to me. First time? Take your outrage elsewhere.

msduncan wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:32 am Victory for minority party protection and against tyranny of the majority today.

Thanks to the two brave Senators that stood up to the federalization of our elections and the death of our Republic. Kudos.

You're amazing. The tyranny of the majority? I suppose that reflects this board's tyranny too because most of us thought voting rights were worth something.
You're amazing. I don't know why the people on this board ever feel like reaching down to you while your marriage is in failure and you are at the bottom of your rope.
You're just amazing. When you look in the mirror, you see it too - you're amazing.

Unagi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:20 am [You're amazing. I don't know why the people on this board ever feel like reaching down to you while your marriage is in failure and you are at the bottom of your rope.

I really don't think that is appropriate, FWIW. Attack people's arguments, not their personal lives.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Jan 21, 2022 7:02 pm Or American.

I once seriously annoyed a Black friend by calling him African American. He was not of African descent.

I've avoided the term since.

Yeah, that doesn't happen with me very much...where like a switch, my thinking on something is completely changed and reversed in an instant, and it's hard for me to fathom how I DIDN'T think that way literally seconds before.

Grifman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:09 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:20 am [You're amazing. I don't know why the people on this board ever feel like reaching down to you while your marriage is in failure and you are at the bottom of your rope.

I really don't think that is appropriate, FWIW. Attack people's arguments, not their personal lives.

+1

I am attacking the idea that he feels we are tyrannical when we are the type of people that have proven to care about him when he needed people to care about him.

I'm asking him to address why he feels we are tyrannical when he benefits from the evidence of the opposite.

I agree with you both, but his comments are foul and he needs to consider his audience. Not our political makeup - but our undeniable human relationships.

Why would he address anything? It wasn't an honest post. It was gloating intended entirely to create a reaction for the chuckles.

Well, I'm not hoping/expecting that he will explain his position.

And I'm certainly not attacking his personal life. I'm using a shared moment of his personal life, and how we were all there for him, as the fulcrum with which to challenge his character.

I apologize if there is no place for that here.

Yeah, I didn’t see Unagi as attacking him for having a failed marriage, so much as his inability to find any respect for people that went out of their way to support him when he needed it. He got what he needed and went right back to childishly mischaracterizing those same people because it satisfies the political troll within him.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:38 am

Grifman wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 11:09 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 10:20 am [You're amazing. I don't know why the people on this board ever feel like reaching down to you while your marriage is in failure and you are at the bottom of your rope.

I really don't think that is appropriate, FWIW. Attack people's arguments, not their personal lives.

+1

Yup, that was too far over the line.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 12:43 pm Why would he address anything? It wasn't an honest post. It was gloating intended entirely to create a reaction for the chuckles.

This. Kind of. But I'd argue even worse. I don't think it was intended for chuckles. I think it was an intentionally mean post that was fully intended to hurt. And as Unagi pointed out, it was aimed at the very same people that were supportive of him during hard times in the past.

I will never understand people that make an effort to be around people that they clearly despise. Unless, of course, the only reason for remaining is in order to be intentionally cruel.

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:41 pm Yeah, I didn’t see Unagi as attacking him for having a failed marriage, so much as his inability to find any respect for people that went out of their way to support him when he needed it. He got what he needed and went right back to childishly mischaracterizing those same people because it satisfies the political troll within him.

Thank you , you worded it better.

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:41 pm Yeah, I didn’t see Unagi as attacking him for having a failed marriage, so much as his inability to find any respect for people that went out of their way to support him when he needed it. He got what he needed and went right back to childishly mischaracterizing those same people because it satisfies the political troll within him.

Dammit. Ok, I see that now that I re-read it.

Retract my +1, convert that to a NEGATIVE one and assign THAT to MSD. CARRY the +1 and reassign that to RM9 for clarifying.

Forums are hard.

There was no need to bring his marriage into it at all, in my opinion. That other thread was a deeply personal one on his part. We shouldn’t be throwing that kind of thing in people’s faces if we don’t like their political stance. It will just result in members being afraid to talk to others when they have problems in their lives.

hepcat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:51 am There was no need to bring his marriage into it at all, in my opinion. That other thread was a deeply personal one on his part. We shouldn’t be throwing that kind of thing in people’s faces if we don’t like their political stance. It will just result in members being afraid to talk to others when they have problems in their lives.

+1

Moreover, the entire reason we have an R&P forum is to attempt to separate political rancor and personal connection.

But beyond that, I'm unclear as to why celebrating a political defeat of the Democratic party, regardless of the tone, is considered a personal attack on posters here. MSD didn't call anyone out in his post. His rhetoric, while abrasive, is a good deal calmer than what many posters use on a regular basis - just pointed in a different direction. And for that, we're going to savage his personal life?

Ick.

I think it's easy to forget that politics is just one tiny slice of someone's overall personality. And yes, while political views may be a reflection of other parts of the personality, the accuracy of that reflection is going to vary by degree depending on the individual.

hepcat wrote:There was no need to bring his marriage into it at all, in my opinion. That other thread was a deeply personal one on his part. We shouldn’t be throwing that kind of thing in people’s faces if we don’t like their political stance. It will just result in members being afraid to talk to others when they have problems in their lives.

I disagree. I think the point Unagi was making was important, and it’s something that really should cause a re-evaluation of how he behaves and treats those around him.

If this place is worthy of coming to for support in a time of deep personal need, maybe it would be nice to stop being an insufferable cunt to those same people because of his political beliefs?

And yeah, we have different forums, but the people here were the bulk of the people offering support. A mistake I will not make again.

I'm not attacking his marriage or any detail of his personal life. And I don't think the simple fact that he came to us for help is a fact that is off the table for discussion.

I am pointing out that we CLEARLY ARE a place where someone feels safe in sharing personal information/problems, etc. To the degree that msduncan felt he could share very personal problems, on the level of 'marriage difficulties'... and still color these people as tyrants? It's not that it's a personal attack against me, it's that it's an absurd label to put on people that you have decided you would turn to for help. I'm asking his brain to digest that.

How is this me attacking his marriage problems? Shit, my marriage isn't perfect - I wouldn't dare.

I'm questioning his character. I'm asking him to think about us.... again, not as Democrats, but as people he clearly feels comfortable (and was proven to be warranted, I will point out) sharing problems with.

I am pointing out to him that he would come to us for help and did, and we all did try and help, everyone - and yet he colors (a majority of) our beliefs as tyrannical. That, to me, is amazing.

As TheMix eloquently put it: "I will never understand people that make an effort to be around people that they clearly despise."

And YK, you may say that politics is just a tiny slice of a person, but I don't know that that's true about certain styles of political expression/ or certain people. I mean, clearly, for you, your politics are just a tiny slice of your personality, but can you honestly say that about, let's say Malchior or Fireball? or msduncan?

I think everyone has a point and maybe the specific reference was unnecessary (but I don't know how you make the point being made otherwise). However, as in everything context matters. When someone is going to pop in after months of silence...and essentially gloat about the very thing people are worrying about daily and then run away well people aren't going to take that well. It is amongst the worse sorts of hypocrisy we can see - treating some group explicitly unkindly when they have treated you kindly.

Unagi wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:34 amAnd YK, you may say that politics is just a tiny slice of a person, but I don't know that that's true about certain styles of political expression/ or certain people. I mean, clearly, for you, your politics are just a tiny slice of your personality, but can you honestly say that about, let's say Malchior or Fireball? or msduncan?

I actually align with YK on this. It is what you see. For me it is what I choose to engage about here to a great degree but I have a lot of interests outside politics. I also know some of serious MAGAts in real-life, and some are horrible and some are wonderful people who are lost in a fog of disinformation. It is very easy to mistake the two.

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:25 am

hepcat wrote:There was no need to bring his marriage into it at all, in my opinion. That other thread was a deeply personal one on his part. We shouldn’t be throwing that kind of thing in people’s faces if we don’t like their political stance. It will just result in members being afraid to talk to others when they have problems in their lives.

I disagree. I think the point Unagi was making was important, and it’s something that really should cause a re-evaluation of how he behaves and treats those around him.

If this place is worthy of coming to for support in a time of deep personal need, maybe it would be nice to stop being an insufferable cunt to those same people because of his political beliefs?

And yeah, we have different forums, but the people here were the bulk of the people offering support. A mistake I will not make again.

MSD has dialed it back a great deal, I think. We used to get into knock down, drag out, name calling matches in EBG years ago. But he decided at some point to stop being OUTRAGE guy and I've not seen him drag politics into other conversations since. I'm with YK and Malchior in that I think what we see here (especially when delivered in a flash of passion and not directly at someone) shouldn't be considered the sum total of a poster's existence. *

I also think we should avoid bringing such things as families into discourse in R&P outside appropriate congratulations or condolences. As LR said, that's a bit "icky".

Will I get mad at someone for posting MAGA crap? Hell yes. Did I find his post infuriating? Oh yeah. But I would like to think I would find some way to express that anger that doesn't involve making them feel like they can't come to us for help with something outside R&P that doesn't involve politics.





*Myself excluded, of course. I really am just as shallow and idiotic as I come across in my posts.

malchior wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:39 am I think everyone has a point and maybe the specific reference was unnecessary (but I don't know how you make the point being made otherwise). However, as in everything context matters. When someone is going to pop in after months of silence...and essentially gloat about the very thing people are worrying about daily and then run away well people aren't going to take that well. It is amongst the worse sorts of hypocrisy we can see - treating some group explicitly unkindly when they have treated you kindly.

+1

Unagi wrote:And YK, you may say that politics is just a tiny slice of a person, but I don't know that that's true about certain styles of political expression/ or certain people. I mean, clearly, for you, your politics are just a tiny slice of your personality, but can you honestly say that about, let's say Malchior or Fireball? or msduncan?

I really don't know anybody on the boards well enough IRL to say, but I do know I've had some interactions with MSD outside of the political forum that were positive. I'm not defending his post or anyone else's, as I really don't have a dog in the fight, it just reminded me of something I have to remind myself often.

I've got some really close friends that I don't agree with politically. They have their reasons for voting the way they do, and in some cases I think they're 100% wrong. On the other hand, those politics don't really matter much to them until it's time to vote. The rest of the time they're doing the 99% of other things people do - working, taking care of their family, playing games, hanging out. And it's in that 99% space that I interact with them.

Now, I could choose to judge their entire life based on that 1% and throw the baby out with the bathwater, but that's hard for me to do. Particularly when I know that not that many years ago, I was voting the same way they were.

To your point, are there people whose politics do define their personalities? Yes, there are. I know some of those types too. And in many of those cases, those are the people I choose not to hang around because it is such a dominant part of who they are. Some folks on here may be that way IRL, I have no way of knowing.

I think the problem is that when posting in an R&P forum, behind that anonymity, you really only have one way to be judged. So we're all looking at each other through a very narrow lens.

I hope that didn't sound preachy as that wasn't my intent. I'm guilty of seeing things through that narrow lens just as much if not more as anybody on these forums. Writing it out really is more of a reminder to myself than to anyone else.

Unagi wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:34 amI am pointing out to him that he would come to us for help and did, and we all did try and help, everyone - and yet he colors (a majority of) our beliefs as tyrannical. That, to me, is amazing.

Only if you think that disparaging a political party is the same as attacking every individual that votes for that party. Which is insane in a country that only has two parties.

Lots of posters here make a hobby of savaging the Republican party. It is routinely labelled traitorous, tyrannical, inane and insane. But virtually nobody on this board (I hope) believes that 86 million Americans deserve those labels. As Kraken says, there are only ever 2 choices, and whichever side you go with, you're almost certainly going to be endorsing a whole lotta stuff you don't actually want. Political affiliation is a supremely poor indicator of character - I can't imagine voting for the current Republican party, but many of the nicest people I actually know in real life are dedicated Republican voters. People are complicated.

OK. Can you show me where I savaged msduncan's personal life?

It really wasn’t a position, but gloating. How do you argue that bullshit?

Pointing out that OO is full of helpful people, not monsters, was pretty insightful even if it was overly personal. It’s also funny that Unagi made it, as he’s had his own run-ins with the phantom menace msduncan derides.

The Republican Party is currently dedicated to establishing tyrannical conservative rule — by its court appointments, voting restrictions, alternative electors, local school policies, anti-public health, and support of a maniac ex-President who can’t admit to losing. Gaslighting is their main argument.

I'm just going to repeat myself and urge everyone to remember it.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 8:43 am

msduncan wrote: ↑Thu Jan 20, 2022 1:32 am Victory for minority party protection and against tyranny of the majority today.

Thanks to the two brave Senators that stood up to the federalization of our elections and the death of our Republic. Kudos.

As a drive by post from someone that *barely* interacts here, I can only imagine the amount of furious offline masturbation happening over the last few days as everyone here is worked into a frenzy.

Indifference. Indifference is the answer.

Little Raven wrote:But virtually nobody on this board (I hope) believes that 86 million Americans deserve those labels.

And a good chunk of those are boiled frogs. People who have pulled the lever all their lives for small government, economic conservatism, etc, not realizing that their lever pull today stands for a set of "values" that are in many cases completely contradictory to what they'd tell you they believe in.

I have a buddy I'd describe as a "Never Trumper." Voted Republican all his life but was absolutely appalled by the Trump era. If you ask him about his political positions (which I have), they line up perfectly with a moderate Democrat. But he won't vote Democrat because he doesn't vote Democrat - he's a Republican.

That's a hard mindset to change. And this is a guy who actually pays attention to politics. Imagine all the folks out there who don't even think about it until an election year.

malchior wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 11:39 am I think everyone has a point and maybe the specific reference was unnecessary (but I don't know how you make the point being made otherwise).

That's where I stand. We could make the valid point without digging into his wounds.

And politics. I've become irritable and intolerant like everyone else these days in regards to my chosen 'them.' I will chew you up one side and down the other for opinions that I find harmful and disgusting. But if I find you on the roadside half frozen, I'll still give you a ride into town.

YellowKing wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 2:40 pm

Little Raven wrote:But virtually nobody on this board (I hope) believes that 86 million Americans deserve those labels.

And a good chunk of those are boiled frogs. People who have pulled the lever all their lives for small government, economic conservatism, etc, not realizing that their lever pull today stands for a set of "values" that are in many cases completely contradictory to what they'd tell you they believe in.

I once asked my grandmother why she voted Republican. "Because that's how Paul voted," was her reply. Paul was my grandfather, and he'd been dead 15+ years at that point. I doubt she had a clue what the difference really was, or what the larger issues really meant. She herself has been gone for 20 years (!), but she'd probably be a Trump voter if she were alive, for exactly the same reason.

I might blame her for ignorance, but that's it.

There is a big difference from someone who's aware and chooses something awful and someone who's just clueless (not that clueless means blameless.)

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sun Jan 23, 2022 5:09 pm I might blame her for ignorance, but that's it.

50 years ago voting based on how your deceased husband voted while having no understanding of the issues was still ignorance. And besides, the conversation in question took place at least 30 years ago.

Are batteries filled with bleach?

Just the ones made by Dominion.

Also probably the reason why the owner manual added that is because 50 years ago people were drinking the contents of the battery.

I know a guy that went to prison once.
One of our friends wrote letters to him once or twice a month.
When the guy got out of prison, the person who wrote the letters became furious that he was never treated differently from those of us who didnt write letters. He thought he deserved to be held to a higher standard because of it. He felt so slighted he never talked to the guy again and constantly talks shit about him now.

Unagi reminds me of that guy.

Msd did a drive by troll post in R&P. Shocking.....I know.
Most people took it for what it was.
All because you may have wrote some words of encouragement or advise in another forum doesnt mean it's okay to bring his personal life into play whenever it's convenient to do so.

It was a personal attack of the lowest kind.

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:50 am It was a personal attack of the lowest kind.

Really? I could think of many, many more personal attacks that would be far more blatant and much "lower".

TheMix wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:10 am

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:50 am It was a personal attack of the lowest kind.

Really? I could think of many, many more personal attacks that would be far more blatant and much "lower".

Probably.
It's just my opinion that helping someone then throwing it in their face to try and make an unrelated point is disingenuous at best.

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:16 am

TheMix wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:10 am

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jan 24, 2022 10:50 am It was a personal attack of the lowest kind.

Really? I could think of many, many more personal attacks that would be far more blatant and much "lower".

Probably.
It's just my opinion that helping someone then throwing it in their face to try and make an unrelated point is disingenuous at best.

As opposed to taking help from someone and then shitting all over them? Personally, I think that feeling a little bitter about it is acceptable. And a perfectly reasonable ask. I wouldn't ask for assistance from people I hate. And I wouldn't treat people I like this way. So, it seems reasonable to me to ask someone to clarify their behavior. Whether it was his intent or not, I suspect that if he ever asks for help again, there will be more than one cold shoulder.