Presidential Debates 2024

[Archinerd]

I saw an interesting comment on Twitter that Walz was doing a good job drawing Vance to the left on occasion, which will really piss off the MAGA crowd.

JD very nearly endorsed socialism in several occasions.

[hepcat]

Vance did succeed in coming across as mature and stable. Meanwhile, Walz came across as something more than a meme generating machine. Honestly, they both won in my view.

But did Vance come across as not having the most punchable face in politics?

I wouldn’t wanna mess up his eyeliner.

…and Trump will always win that contest anyway.

[Kraken]

Before I go back and read everyone else’s opinions, I just want to say that’s one of the best debates ever. Both candidates stayed mostly on-topic, respected the rules, and represented their respective masters admirably. IMO Vance had the harder job because he’s inherently unlikable and his master is a clown; Walz had to defend Kamala against the low points of Biden’s presidency without resorting to the obvious fact that the VP had very little to do with any of that. I declare it a draw, with Vance getting bonus points for improving his personal standing.

OK, now I’ll go back and tell y’all why you’re wrong.

[naednek]

I think the moderators are doing great. They are actually doing their job by controlling the flow. I'm halfway into the debate and there was only 1 time where they had to mute.

Compare the last few debates, it was chaos and unorganized.

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[El Guapo]

I think Harris's people need to spread the word that Vance is a much better debater than Trump. In addition to being true, that's also the best bet of getting Trump on a debate stage again.

[Kraken]

I agree that Walz occasionally tried to cram too much content into his time, leading him to stammer some scattershot answers. But both men met or exceeded expectations and this debate, entertaining as it was, won’t mean diddly.

[Zarathud]

Vance did succeed in coming across as mature and stable. Meanwhile, Walz came across as something more than a meme generating machine. Honestly, they both won in my view.

But did Vance come across as not having the most punchable face in politics?

JD Vance was mansplaining the entire time.

Moderator: Thanks for telling us how elections work, Senator.

[naednek]

I don't know if this happened everywhere but on our YouTube CBS broadcast this happened when they focused on Vance.

I immediately thought of this

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[Jaymann]

I was a little concerned at some of the early clips. But after watching the highlights I think Walz knocked it out of the park. Probably won't change any votes, but he did not back down when faced with that slimeball.

[LordMortis]

As I thought I would, I fell asleep. Too bad. I wanted to Walz. At least I didn't have to sit through a Shady salesman's facade.

[YellowKing]

I finally figured out who Vance reminds me of, and it's "fake church people." You know the kind that greet you at the door with their fake smiles, expressing their fake sympathy for your sick grandma, with their fake small talk and fake jokes. He probably IS that person in real life, so it's no wonder that's what he reminds me of.

[Scraper]

I finally figured out who Vance reminds me of, and it's "fake church people." You know the kind that greet you at the door with their fake smiles, expressing their fake sympathy for your sick grandma, with their fake small talk and fake jokes. He probably IS that person in real life, so it's no wonder that's what he reminds me of.

It's part of the robot effect I was talking about in the Vance thread a couple of days ago. Nothing is real, not even the things he says. It's all crafted.

[LordMortis]

I finally figured out who Vance reminds me of, and it's "fake church people." You know the kind that greet you at the door with their fake smiles, expressing their fake sympathy for your sick grandma, with their fake small talk and fake jokes. He probably IS that person in real life, so it's no wonder that's what he reminds me of.

That always smiling, friendly person who talks about all of the things they'll do and even volunteers for everything but then backs out because something came up or does nothing but gab and sit around on the day they're supposed to be working and then wants to talk about what a great experience it was afterward.

[$iljanus]

Hannibal Lecter was pretty charming too.

[Carpet_pissr]

Great debate, IMO, agree that the moderators were a bit heavy-handed. Vance is not Trump and it felt like the moderators went in expecting to have to deal with Trump (which requires tight control).

Outcome:
- I want the ticket to switch - Walz for prez and Kamala for VP
- I kinda want to move to Minnesota now! He made it sound like a utopia.

[Unagi]

We loved the moderators (for the most part, not perfect) - but they were some of the first to actually push back with something like "The question was: "X" ..... let's try and answer that now, one more time...."

Anyhow, if my house was any judge in the matter, the two women moderators were, not intentionally, consciously nor purposefully, but more just 'energy' wise, feeding part of a 'this is our year' feeling that a lot of women have right now.

[Unagi]

Vance certainly improved on his image, imo. Deceptively, but he pulled it off for the most part.
Walz probably came out even or a little better. He lost a little of the 'mythical' and returned to Earth - but then he also was clearly a great guy, so source of myth confirmed.

So - net was probably no change, with maybe a slight bump for team Trump because somewhere there is someone who will think Vance brings sanity to the ticket now, and they can point to that in conversations with their semi-estranged children.

[LawBeefaroni]

Vance should get an Oscar. Or Emmy, whatever applies. He did a remarkable job. I still don't like or trust him but have to respect his performance.

Overall, it was cordial and hopeful for a few hours. Kind of like watching a BBC mystery on PBS. You know it's cheese and impossible but it's just nice, for a little bit.


All the criticisms I'm seeing/hearing are nitpiks that would be positives in almost any other debate we've had over the past 25 or so years.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, the "performance" Vance managed last night was commendable. It certainly cements my beliefs that he's a much, much bigger danger being a heartbeat away from the Presidency than most people might think. Trump is a doofus that is clearly easy to manipulate. Vance strikes me as someone that is playing a long con. Both are happy to do the bidding of others, as long as there's something in it for them. The problem is Trump acts to enrich himself (or his family). I strongly suspect Vance believes he's doing God's work.

[LordMortis]

I strongly suspect Vance believes he's doing God's work.

I don't get that. I get that he wants to play with billionaires and find his way in to their club.

[hepcat]

Yeah, I don't see Vance as religious at all. I see him selling his soul to the highest bidder...which in this case, is who can get him higher up on the ladder of his perceived success. I wouldn't be surprised if he switched to democrat at some point in the future after realizing the GOP is broken and can't help him any more.

[Smoove_B]

Hmmm...I don't see him being a religious fundamentalist lunatic (like Pence), but instead he deeply believes America is a Christian nation and that he needs to help others usher in more Jesus at a federal level.

I mean, I guess I could be totally off and he's really just comfortable spouting the coded phrases to signal his motives. Either way, I do think he's way more dangerous than Trump ever was - and is currently.

[YellowKing]

The handful of immediate post-debate discussions I've seen show both candidates getting a bump in net approval, but Walz got a bigger bump. The post-CBS focus group of undecided Pennsylvanians had 5 out of 6 say they thought Walz won. It also seems that independents were swayed more by Walz than Vance.

Honestly I think this entire debate might have been a wash except for that Jan. 6th question. Vance sealed his doom by refusing to admit Trump lost in 2020, and it's the only segment I'm hearing about today. I think that was a colossal blunder on his part, as he could have just said "Well, as Trump said, they beat us by a tiny bit." Use Trump's words, not his own, and try to wiggle out of the rock and a hard place he found himself in.

I think Walz did a very good job of reaching across the aisle to try to grab on-the-fence Republicans. He definitely has a vibe of "I may not agree with you, but I'd be happy to have a beer with you." Vance tried that as well to some extent, but he came across as much less genuine.

[pr0ner]

Honestly I think this entire debate might have been a wash except for that Jan. 6th question. Vance sealed his doom by refusing to admit Trump lost in 2020, and it's the only segment I'm hearing about today. I think that was a colossal blunder on his part, as he could have just said "Well, as Trump said, they beat us by a tiny bit." Use Trump's words, not his own, and try to wiggle out of the rock and a hard place he found himself in.

Yeah, all I'm really hearing about is Vance's whining about being fact checked, and his epic fail on the January 6 question.

[hepcat]

Hmmm...I don't see him being a religious fundamentalist lunatic (like Pence), but instead he deeply believes America is a Christian nation and that he needs to help others usher in more Jesus at a federal level.

I mean, I guess I could be totally off and he's really just comfortable spouting the coded phrases to signal his motives. Either way, I do think he's way more dangerous than Trump ever was - and is currently.

His support for Project 2025 is the only thing that gives me hesitancy when I start to believe he's truly a man without any convictions beyond those that will help him get up that aforementioned ladder of political success.

I think he's going to have a come to Jesus moment in the not too distant future when his wife and children inevitably find themselves the subject of racist conspiracy theories and hatred. There's zero chance a woman of Indian descent is going to avoid the mainstream MAGA distrust, fear and hatred of anyone who isn't white. At that point, J.D. Vance is going to have to make a choice: fight for his family or fight for his career. Sadly, he can't have both considering the side he's chosen.

[Max Peck]

Hmmm...I don't see him being a religious fundamentalist lunatic (like Pence), but instead he deeply believes America is a Christian nation and that he needs to help others usher in more Jesus at a federal level.

Well... There's wanting more Jesus, and then there's wanting a hard-right Catholic theocracy.

My former friend JD Vance has aligned with something far worse than MAGA

Unlike the MAGA movement, which is led by a candidate who is defiantly amoral, post-liberalism is steeped in a revolutionary religiosity.

Most Americans haven’t heard of the post-liberal right, the small but influential group of conservative, mostly Catholic men who have declared that liberal democracy, the animating principle of America’s founding, has failed and want to bring about a new social order where there is no separation of church and state and men and a hyperconservative Catholicism reign supreme. They are disdainful of secularism and individual liberty. Just like Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump illustrated during Tuesday night’s debate against Vice President Kamala Harris, these men idolize the authoritarian Viktor Orbán, the prime minister of Hungary.

They’re also nostalgic for Spain as it was run by the dictator Franco and see Orbán’s government and Franco’s as potential models for the kind of regime they wish to install in the United States. The group’s political priorities — which include restricting access to contraception and divorce and banning marriage equality and pornography — are wildly unpopular. And yet the Republican nominee for vice president, my former friend JD Vance, is a prominent voice of this fringe movement, as so many of his regrettable podcast interviews have demonstrated.

To repeat, I once considered Vance a friend. We were in the same class at Yale Law School, he knew me as an openly trans person, and we remained in communication until 2021. That’s the year that he announced he would be running in the U.S. Senate race in Ohio the next year. Before running in post-liberal and neoreactionary circles, Vance was far less angry and extreme. He was also, as everybody will remember, riding the attention from his memoir “Hillbilly Elegy” and was a vocal and unambiguous critic of Trump, using words like “idiot” to describe Trump and “reprehensible” to describe his views on “Immigrants, Muslims, etc.”

Despite the time we spent as friends, I have no real insights (other than political expediency) into what drew him to post-liberal men like the academic Patrick Deneen, columnist Sohrab Ahmari, legal scholar Adrian Vermeule and expat journalist and author Rod Dreher, who was present for Vance’s baptism into the Catholic Church in 2019. What I do know is that Vance used to condemn Trump’s racism and be empathetic to how such rhetoric made Americans feel unwelcome in their own country. But these men have had an obvious and heartbreaking effect on Vance’s worldview.

[Jaymann]

That's a damning non-answer.

Indeed.

[Hyena]

Not sure if someone has mentioned this before, but even separate from the eyeliner, Vance's eyes are completely dead. Like, no emotions reach his eyes. His smiles, his frowns, his anger or happiness. He's like some kind of skinwalker that doesn't experience real emotions, that they've been practiced in front of a mirror. I don't know any other way to describe them. Maybe it's botox, maybe it's the eyeliner after all, but there's no depth to them at all.

[hitbyambulance]

- I kinda want to move to Minnesota now! He made it sound like a utopia.

having been born there, i thought it was pretty all right. i would suggest pitching in the work to make your current state of residence more like my home state.

[hepcat]

Is it true that it's a lot like Gamma Trianguli VI?

[waitingtoconnect]

Hmmm...I don't see him being a religious fundamentalist lunatic (like Pence), but instead he deeply believes America is a Christian nation and that he needs to help others usher in more Jesus at a federal level.

Well... There's wanting more Jesus, and then there's wanting a hard-right Catholic theocracy.

[/quote]

And the catholic conspiracy to stop this led by ultra Catholics Pelosi and Biden shows how deep the devil is immeshed in our way of life. He must be stopped!! (/sarcasm)

[Punisher]

Can we also have a question on why the brothers of Democrat presidents and governors always hate them while all of Trump's family and all of his former workers and lieutenants love him and never have a bad thing to say?

Theory (or hypothesis. I'm not really sure of the difference anymore)
Maybe because the Republicans give their relatives cushy jobs with lots of money regardless of if they qualified or not. From what I've been seeing here and and some basic searches a lot of Republicans have very little integrity whereas the Democrats usually have a lot.

Obviously there are always exceptions.

Perhaps Obamas tried getting his grift on and Obama shut him down.

[waitingtoconnect]

Funny how most of the media even the new york times is saying Vance won.

In my day if you provably lied or evaded during the debate you lost points... but in our post-truth world you just have to sound credible I suppose. Best you could give him was a draw.

I was disappointed with Walz's performance - I thought it was poor overall. He didn't seize enough opportunities to highlight Vance's own contradictions; I'd say like many Democrats he was too nice.

[Jaymann]

Funny how most of the media even the new york times is saying Vance won.

He did create an unforgettable moment. And the Harris campaign jumped all over it:

[Zarathud]

Good thing Vance maintains we shouldn’t trust experts.

He’s a salesman but he’s still selling crap. His failure to answer about Trump losing the 2020 election at the end showed he’s not honest.

He can’t be. MAGA demands allegiance to Trump wins, no matter who else loses. But that’s ok, you blame it on immigrants and Democrats anyway. It reminds me of the schoolyard bully.

[Kraken]

Good thing Vance maintains we shouldn’t trust experts.

He’s a salesman but he’s still selling crap. His failure to answer about Trump losing the 2020 election at the end showed he’s not honest.

He can’t be. MAGA demands allegiance to Trump wins, no matter who else loses. But that’s ok, you blame it on immigrants and Democrats anyway. It reminds me of the schoolyard bully.

At the same time, he didn't say that trump won. He declined to repeat the Big Lie. That borders on insubordination. Vance recognizes that voters in 2028 and beyond won't be talking about trump's 2020 grievances anymore, because those tired old lies will die with their perpetrator. As Vance said, his eye is very much on the future.

[Zarathud]

I am pretty sure Trump will prevent anyone from easily taking away his power. JD better watch his back.

[Pyperkub]

I am pretty sure Trump will prevent anyone from easily taking away his power. JD better watch his back.

Eh, he's so incompetent and doesn't understand anything and doesn't read. It will be pretty easy to manipulate him to do whatever someone wants. See debate with the current VP.

[Holman]

At the same time, he didn't say that trump won. He declined to repeat the Big Lie. That borders on insubordination. Vance recognizes that voters in 2028 and beyond won't be talking about trump's 2020 grievances anymore, because those tired old lies will die with their perpetrator. As Vance said, his eye is very much on the future.

Vance's "I'm focused on the future" is the standard response for Republicans talking to the press or to non-MAGA audiences these days. MAGA understands the necessity and accepts it as pulling the wool over the MSM.

[Kraken]

At the same time, he didn't say that trump won. He declined to repeat the Big Lie. That borders on insubordination. Vance recognizes that voters in 2028 and beyond won't be talking about trump's 2020 grievances anymore, because those tired old lies will die with their perpetrator. As Vance said, his eye is very much on the future.

Vance's "I'm focused on the future" is the standard response for Republicans talking to the press or to non-MAGA audiences these days. MAGA understands the necessity and accepts it as pulling the wool over the MSM.

It has a special meaning to Vance. He is focused on HIS future as TFG's heir apparent.