BSG IV -Revhempus Smoked -Humans win.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:46 am

No offense redrun...

It just seemed like your post was basically this:

"We have one too many citizen up there - what's up with that!"

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:49 am

dammit...lost my long reply to unagi/scoop.

And I never claimed to be a citizen. I want the cylon(s) to wonder about me and consider killing me at night. That's the best way to provide cover for our specials. What you think Scoop, if you live today, would you kill me tonight? Huh?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:49 am

Unagi wrote:How much do you want to bet that the Specialist Forum is full of people freaking out that I thought stessier was a Cylon. How much you want to bet that some people feel I could be a Cylon BECAUSE I agree with Remus that stessier is a top choice.

It may have crossed a mind or three.

How much more worried do you think I am when I agree with your two top choices?

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:53 am

Bakhtosh wrote:And I never claimed to be a citizen. I want the cylon(s) to wonder about me and consider killing me at night.

Why, who cares?

Are we all pretending that the claim of "citizen" isn't the most empty, vacuous, hollow statement that can be made in these games?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:55 am

Remus West wrote: It may have crossed a mind

Ahhh, now things make sense. So which one of you is using it today???

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:56 am

stessier wrote:I think Rev or purge should be the next to go.

purge

There are 10 Good Guys and worst case means 2 cylons.

Today miss, night kill, find 10 (8, 2)
miss, night kill (6,2)
miss, night kill (4,2)
miss, night kill (2,2)

We can miss three more times and lose on the fourth miss.

This still bugs me. Why only "find 10"?

purge · Post by **purge** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:58 am

Since 10 loses their old abilities I'd like to suggest to Remus that he have his specialists check into their special forum to confirm he can trust his team mates (assuming they aren't dead).

I do not currently believe Scoop to be a cylon, but that is because I am more suspicious of Stessier and Tosh.

stessier

This may seem like TP, but as a human it's all I have to go on right now.

purge · Post by **purge** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:00 pm

One more thought... Cylons may have sacrificed Austin to get Chaosraven in everyone's trust.

If there is a convert tonight, tomorrow must be Mipe.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:02 pm

purge wrote:Since 10 loses their old abilities I'd like to suggest to Remus that he have his specialists check into their special forum to confirm he can trust his team mates (assuming they aren't dead).

I do not currently believe Scoop to be a cylon, but that is because I am more suspicious of Stessier and Tosh.

stessier

This may seem like TP, but as a human it's all I have to go on right now.

That is a good suggestion. Each day we should start by checking into that forum to let each other know we still can. I can not do it from work but since I used our ability today they know I am still good. They have also checked in during this day so I know they are still good. We should start implimenting that idea for the next few days though. I will be certain to send them PMs to that effect so I do not forget to put it in the forum.

redrun · Post by **redrun** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:09 pm

Unagi wrote:
redrun wrote: -- So, that is the fourth claim of Citizen for this game:

Scoop
Rev
Purge
Mipe

Um, the only people who aren't claiming Citizen are:
Remus - Specialist
Kraegor - Helo
Chaosraven - Athena

Everyone else is claiming Citizen by default.
The remaining 'Powered Good Guys' are pretending to be Citizens.
The remaining 'Bad Guys' are pretending to be Citizens.
The remaining Citizens are indeed Citizens.

Actually, I can absolutely assure you that those 4 aren't all citizens, cause we have only 4 citizens - and I am not on that list of yours... Someone would need to get off that list so that my name could be added.

I am not sure what this empty analysis is supposed to provide.

-- <shrug> I'm looking for folks who are lying. We've had at least one person who didn't bother lying, just said "I'm a good guy".
We're getting close to the end of the week, I'm thinking of switching my vote - which might cause a lynch.
Given the number of folks who are claiming citizen, it might just be an empty analysis - but I'm not sure yet.

We seem to have a number of missing named characters. Starbuck? Apollo (I think dead). Troy. I think the cylons have been
killing the named ones. I'd be interested in seeing who still wants to claim citizen at this point - since it seems that putting
your name in the citizen catagory is a default move.

Of course, it's probably worth saying that I think we should look to a mass revel tomorrow - with the two hidden specialists
staying quiet, or claiming citizen. Their choice, not a public one. The Cylons have to come out as something - they might be
able to pick dead named characters, they may pick citizen - they may find that it's hard to find somewhere to hide.

Feel free to point out what I'm missing. No ego on the line here.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:18 pm

From a quick lunchtime glance, it seems as if having second thoughts is all the rage. So
withdraw Scoop20906

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 12:18 pm

Assuming the game doesn't end today, I agree that a mass reveal may be in order tomorrow.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:10 pm

Kraegor wrote:context, scoop, context. you made the list on page 5, day 1 before the lynch. every move thereafter is indicative of a frame job to make them match.

what's damning is the alleged serendipity of things from your perspective.

conflictiing evidence in that one is easily a signal to the cylons. the other is the frame up deaths. don't need a numerological profile. that's irrelevant.

You are a unclear here Kraegor. You are saying I was framed and signalling the cylons at the same time. It would be interesting after the game to learn if the cylons used my list as a plan of action to frame me later. Still, I find it hard to believe that was what happened.

Bakhtosh wrote:dammit...lost my long reply to unagi/scoop.

And I never claimed to be a citizen. I want the cylon(s) to wonder about me and consider killing me at night. That's the best way to provide cover for our specials. What you think Scoop, if you live today, would you kill me tonight? Huh?

If I die today, then you will probably survive the night because either you are a cylon or you have become the cylon's new pet since you are doing the work for them.

However, I am having 2nd thoughts about voting for you as well. I guess I can be clairvoyant when I am not trying to but when I do try to find a baddie, I have no clue.

withdrawal Bakhtosh

I think you may have just made a bad call. Otherwise, I think you have made good suggestions this game.

The person who just sticks out like a sore thumb is Stessier. Unagi still bothers me too. Hes a smart guy although he can get too caught up in the details at times.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:13 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:From a quick lunchtime glance, it seems as if having second thoughts is all the rage. So
withdraw Scoop20906

I know yer trying to remake your image but the windsock impersonation does not impress...

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:15 pm

Scoop20906 wrote: You are a unclear here Kraegor. You are saying I was framed and signalling the cylons at the same time. It would be interesting after the game to learn if the cylons used my list as a plan of action to frame me later. Still, I find it hard to believe that was what happened.

I don't live in an either or world. Its plausible both are true. unagi isn't voting for you because it worked too well.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:17 pm

purge wrote:Since 10 loses their old abilities I'd like to suggest to Remus that he have his specialists check into their special forum to confirm he can trust his team mates (assuming they aren't dead).

that would be a logical fallacy in game design.
since under that format a specialist as 10 = free kill.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:17 pm

stessier wrote:Voting for someone because they can't remember who's proven, can't remember how to withdraw votes, and who put out a coded list with an odd correlation to known Cylons? Strong!

Scoop20906

Ok, Stessier, do you still feel "Strong!" about you vote for me? I'm finding it hard to believe you would see this as evidence enough to lynch someone.

Specifically point by point:

Voting for someone because they can't remember who's proven,
can't remember how to withdraw votes
who put out a coded list with an odd correlation to known Cylons

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:22 pm

Kraegor wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote: You are a unclear here Kraegor. You are saying I was framed and signalling the cylons at the same time. It would be interesting after the game to learn if the cylons used my list as a plan of action to frame me later. Still, I find it hard to believe that was what happened.

I don't live in an either or world. Its plausible both are true. unagi isn't voting for you because it worked too well.

Either or world? plausible? Thanks for nailing down your views.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:25 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:
Kraegor wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote: You are a unclear here Kraegor. You are saying I was framed and signalling the cylons at the same time. It would be interesting after the game to learn if the cylons used my list as a plan of action to frame me later. Still, I find it hard to believe that was what happened.

I don't live in an either or world. Its plausible both are true. unagi isn't voting for you because it worked too well.
Either or world? plausible? Thanks for nailing down your views.

I'm not a flashlight. I'm a lava lamp.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:39 pm

scoop wrote:Here is why. I am a citizen. By killing me we protect our specials. Also, I have the possibility of being #10 as well. I am the safest kill we can make today since my death won't impact the good guys great and eliminates some of the cover the cylons and removes the possibility of #10 be converted.

/shrug. might as well hold you to your word. It removes an angle of contention. and negates the need for a scan on you which would be defacto required if you live.

scoop

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 1:52 pm

Kraegor wrote:
scoop wrote:Here is why. I am a citizen. By killing me we protect our specials. Also, I have the possibility of being #10 as well. I am the safest kill we can make today since my death won't impact the good guys great and eliminates some of the cover the cylons and removes the possibility of #10 be converted.
/shrug. might as well hold you to your word. It removes an angle of contention. and negates the need for a scan on you which would be defacto required if you live.

scoop

Fair enough. That was my offer a day ago when I was trying to protect our specials.

But things have changed since Day One and I no longer believe lynching me is a safe mood and I worry it will actually provide cover for the cylons.

I think the fallout of my lynch will point to Bahktosh and Stessier. It also may provide cover for Unagi since he opposed this bandwagon. Of this three I think one might be a cylon but if you kill the other two before you get it right, thats two days and four human deaths.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:01 pm

stessier

I can not get past the implication that he knows what Cylon Sean was.

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:02 pm

That's why it's critical we don't out Starbuck today. We must keep Chaos alive so we'll always have a trusted pool (even if there's a #10 conversion).

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:05 pm

purge wrote:Since 10 loses their old abilities I'd like to suggest to Remus that he have his specialists check into their special forum to confirm he can trust his team mates (assuming they aren't dead).

I do not currently believe Scoop to be a cylon, but that is because I am more suspicious of Stessier and Tosh.

stessier

This may seem like TP, but as a human it's all I have to go on right now.

10 does not lose the ability to communicate. If 10 is a specialist, he would still communicate with his partners. He would lose his ability to perform an autopsy.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:06 pm

Kraegor wrote:
purge wrote:Since 10 loses their old abilities I'd like to suggest to Remus that he have his specialists check into their special forum to confirm he can trust his team mates (assuming they aren't dead).
that would be a logical fallacy in game design.
since under that format a specialist as 10 = free kill.

Word from above is that we would retain our PM ability even if we are #10 converted but we would lose our autopsy ability.

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:07 pm

No way...

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:08 pm

Well, nevermind then. Mr Man took care of letting you all know himself.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:08 pm

Remus West wrote: stessier

I can not get past the implication that he knows what Cylon Sean was.

Can you point me to a post or posts of this?

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:10 pm

Scoop20906 ------------------
Unagi ------------------ Bakhtosh
Chaosraven ------------------ scoop
Grundbegriff ------------------
RevHempus ------------------ scoop
stessier ------------------ scoop
Remus West ------------------ stessier
redrun ------------------ stessier
mipe ------------------ scoop
Bakhtosh ------------------ scoop
purge ------------------ stessier
kraegor ------------------ scoop
------------------
Scoop20906 --- 6
Bakhtosh --- 1
stessier --- 3
---

Majority is 7

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:11 pm

I was wondering. Most conversions leave the "mason" PMs in tact.

If there was already a conversion, we can trust Athena, Baltar and Mipe. If a conversion happens tonight, we lose Mipe from that group. That's why Tory needs to stay hidden until she or Apollo finds Baltar.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:13 pm

Remus West wrote: stessier

I can not get past the implication that he knows what Cylon Sean was.

OK Remus, don't let this freak you out. stessier

Grund, join us... it's the right move. (or Bakhtosh, but I think he'll be tomorrow - if there is a morrow.)

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:18 pm

stessier wrote:I think Rev or purge should be the next to go.

purge

There are 10 Good Guys and worst case means 2 cylons.

Today miss, night kill, find 10 (8, 2)
miss, night kill (6,2)
miss, night kill (4,2)
miss, night kill (2,2)

We can miss three more times and lose on the fourth miss.

This post (linked so you can read it in context if you want).

He does not mention finding 7. He specifically mentions 10 alone. Implies he knows where 7 is either dead or alive which in turn implies BEING 7 or Cavil or Apollo. Two of those three need some close attention from a gun. I do not mind outing the third today.

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:23 pm

Unagi wrote: (or Bakhtosh, but I think he'll be tomorrow)

Really...Tomorrow is another day with new information to be had...and you're already planning your vote. Interesting.

There are 7 players in the potential active cylon pool. Up to two of those are specialists (assuming Remus is telling the truth). That leaves 5 to hide up to 3 specials.

We have confirmation that Scoop is neither a special nor a specialist. Starting up a wagon on Stess is like another scan for the Cylons. If they can figure out who the specials are NOT, finding specials then becomes academic. Unagi is moving up my list of suspects.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:23 pm

Bakhtosh wrote:I was wondering. Most conversions leave the "mason" PMs in tact.

If there was already a conversion, we can trust Athena, Baltar and Mipe. If a conversion happens tonight, we lose Mipe from that group. That's why Tory needs to stay hidden until she or Apollo finds Baltar.

Wrong. Currently we know that Grundbegriff and mipe CAN NOT be 10. Both have been scanned Human. Grundbegriff is contingient upon Chaosraven being proven as it is his claim that makes Grund human but there is no way mipe is 10. 10 scans as Cylon whether converted or not.

Which means (assuming Chaosraven is telling the truth) NOT 10:
Chaosraven
mipe
Grundbegriff

None of those three can ever be converted.

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:32 pm

Yeah, assuming Chaos=Athena, Chaos, Grund and Mipe (and Baltar) can not be 10. I forgot this conversion is restricted...even though I'm much happier with that method.

And not to defend Stess, but he did say that he was listing the worst case, and the worst case would include a #10 conversion tonight.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:41 pm

Remus West wrote: He does not mention finding 7. He specifically mentions 10 alone. Implies he knows where 7 is either dead or alive which in turn implies BEING 7 or Cavil or Apollo. Two of those three need some close attention from a gun. I do not mind outing the third today.

I've been asking for someone to point out sean for some time now...

Apollo as of yet is still mute.
Apollo is risking dying and creating a vacuum of information and leaving us blind to how many cylons are left.

at present sean's role is more important than apollo being hidden...

but no... no one else want's to back me up on this viewpoint

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:45 pm

Thanks Remus. It is pretty interesting. Stessier has been pretty silent as well. Is he in damage control mode?

Tosh is dropping fast on my cylon radar. I'm not sure why he pounced so readily on the "code evidence" but his actions otherwise seem consistent with human.

Unagi on the other hand continues to make me nervous. He has been playing a tightrope game of placing suspicion and then jumping to the other side to defend the individual (happened with Remus, and Me). It could be he is just searching for the cylons but I have just gotten the feeling he has been trying to drape himself in innocence through out the game. His sean statements is an example and if I am lynched he could use that as evidence of being human.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:51 pm

Kraegor wrote:
Remus West wrote: He does not mention finding 7. He specifically mentions 10 alone. Implies he knows where 7 is either dead or alive which in turn implies BEING 7 or Cavil or Apollo. Two of those three need some close attention from a gun. I do not mind outing the third today.
I've been asking for someone to point out sean for some time now...

Apollo as of yet is still mute.
Apollo is risking dying and creating a vacuum of information and leaving us blind to how many cylons are left.

at present sean's role is more important than apollo being hidden...

but no... no one else want's to back me up on this viewpoint

Kraegor, just on principle I refuse to back you up on anything

but I do agree we need this info. However, everyone has checked in and no one spoke up so at this point it seems pretty evident that Apollo is one of the dead.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:54 pm

Wait, I just read what I wrote and realized I mispoke. I do think Apollo (if he is still alive) should hold off if sean does not scan as athena as this would contradict Chaos. Otherwise, I am fine with Apollo staying silent for now.

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:55 pm

I don't think Apollo should step forward unless Sean was Athena. It's already been stated that the Cylons are unlikely to shrink their pool by killing unknowns. Apollo's information is unique. Starbuck can't protect Athena & Apollo tonight. Let Apollo stay hidden (unless Sean was Athena), and come out tomorrow when he'll have 2 pieces of information to give us.