Octopus Overlords

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Feb 24, 2021 9:22 am

dbt1949 wrote: Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:22 pm

your life won't change after vaccination - so what's the point?

That's kind of what I'm thinking right now.
I'm on a list (supposedly) to get the shot and I will get it if called, but other wise I'm not too sure it's worth it.

1. You will be far, far less likely to die of a disease that will give you a miserable, lonely death, or to survive and suffer serious symptoms for the rest of your life.
2. You will be (it seems) less likely to accidentally kill or disable other people around you by spreading it to them if you get it

No, you won't be going to unmasked orgies (or restaurants) any time soon, but those two things seem like big enough changes to be clambering for a place in line.

But unmasked orgies in restaurants are still fair game, right?

For that you need to double mask.

First universal coronavirus vaccine will start human trials this year

[paywall link]
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... this-year/

Fauci says CDC is going to ease up on requirements of vaccinated people, which should help down the line for the vaccine hesitant.

not just correlation?

"A recent study found that patients immunized against influenza were less likely to test positive for or have serious complication related to coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)."

https://www.ajmc.com/view/flu-vaccine-m ... -infection

Our go-to local children's hospital just started accepting volunteers for a trial on kids 6-16. We've signed up our three, but have to wait to see if they get accepted.

So Massachusetts released a new block of appointments on their website. My sister and I logged in to try again to get our mom an appointment. Wound up in a virtual line, listing my estimated time in line as 1 minute....which then became 100 minutes...then 289....then 825....then 300...then 150....then 20....then 2850 (just shy of two days)...then 15...then I was subsequently booted out of line with no explanation (maybe the appointments filled up?).

The quest continues.

My brother and SiL in NY, who had appointments scheduled for March, managed to find open slots today for their first shot. But they had to drive three hours away to get them.

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:06 pm My brother and SiL in NY, who had appointments scheduled for March, managed to find open slots today for their first shot. But they had to drive three hours away to get them.

my parents were complaining that they had to drive an hour to the nearest one, so 'they'll just wait a few more months'

So I will get my shot today. Our local groceries pharmacy had a list and our names came up yesterday.

For Smoove:

https://twitter.com/NoahCRothman/status ... 16673?s=20

It makes sense, doesn't it? Seems beneficial to generate positive social media around vaccination, if nothing to convey to people that "everyone's doing it".

El Guapo wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:43 pm It makes sense, doesn't it? Seems beneficial to generate positive social media around vaccination, if nothing to convey to people that "everyone's doing it".

Maybe and I'm sure it was pitched this way but it feels a whole lot more like this (this is from my review when I went two weeks ago):

malchior wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:22 pmThe signage is relatively clear but is all branded by the hospital system which just left a sour taste in my mouth. It screamed 'Remember to drink your ovaltine' to me.

malchior wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:48 pm

El Guapo wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:43 pm It makes sense, doesn't it? Seems beneficial to generate positive social media around vaccination, if nothing to convey to people that "everyone's doing it".

Maybe and I'm sure it was pitched this way but it feels a whole lot more like this (this is from my review when I went two weeks ago):

malchior wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 1:22 pmThe signage is relatively clear but is all branded by the hospital system which just left a sour taste in my mouth. It screamed 'Remember to drink your ovaltine' to me.

I guess, but at the same time if it increases vaccination demand even a little I don't mind it being brought to you by Coca-Cola or what have you.

Yeah, this seems fine to me. I'd never use it, but it makes sense it's there.

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 3:37 pm For Smoove:

Cool. I knew they were being suggested, but didn't actually see any. I do think it's a good idea and a way to promote the idea of getting vaccinated.

El Guapo wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:53 am So Massachusetts released a new block of appointments on their website. My sister and I logged in to try again to get our mom an appointment. Wound up in a virtual line, listing my estimated time in line as 1 minute....which then became 100 minutes...then 289....then 825....then 300...then 150....then 20....then 2850 (just shy of two days)...then 15...then I was subsequently booted out of line with no explanation (maybe the appointments filled up?).

The quest continues.

Baker also reversed his decision to cut hospitals and clinics out of vaccine distribution. They're back in the game when the supply can support them. Honestly, I get whiplash trying to follow MA's policies and procedures.

Kraken wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 5:54 pm

El Guapo wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:53 am So Massachusetts released a new block of appointments on their website. My sister and I logged in to try again to get our mom an appointment. Wound up in a virtual line, listing my estimated time in line as 1 minute....which then became 100 minutes...then 289....then 825....then 300...then 150....then 20....then 2850 (just shy of two days)...then 15...then I was subsequently booted out of line with no explanation (maybe the appointments filled up?).

The quest continues.

Baker also reversed his decision to cut hospitals and clinics out of vaccine distribution. They're back in the game when the supply can support them. Honestly, I get whiplash trying to follow MA's policies and procedures.

Yeah I've told my mom to pursue that angle too. We'll see what happens.

FDA has given approval for Pfizer's vaccine to be stored in normal temp freezers.

Canada has just approved the AstraZeneca vaccine, and I'm not sure that I want this -- we have the variants spreading like wildfire and this vaccine has proven to be useless against the African variant (so much that Africa has stopped using it). I'm concerned this is being used to hit political numbers in the media while providing very little protection to the people -- pretty much on target for what every politician does.

I'm so sick of this shit.

I think there's a legit hope that the AZ shot will have a booster "patch" in the semi-near future.

How effective is the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine?

A group of experts on immunization working with the World Health Organization is recommending the use of AstraZeneca’s vaccine, even in countries where variants emerged as dominant.

That guidance comes after a small study in South Africa suggested AstraZeneca’s vaccine was only minimally effective against the variant first detected there, causing the country to halt use of the product earlier this month.

South Africa said it would instead give the still-unapproved Johnson and Johnson vaccine to front-line health workers to see how it protects against the more contagious variant that’s dominant there.

Oxford University, who helped develop the AstraZeneca vaccine, has said researchers were tweaking their product by inserting a genetic sequence from that specific variant.

AstraZeneca’s vaccine has some promising early data suggesting it works against another variant first detected in the U.K. Findings based on swabs taken from around 500 volunteers in trials between October and January showed a 74.6 per cent efficacy rate against that variant.

Given a choice between the AstraZeneca vaccine and no vaccine, I'll take what I can get. I'd be happier to know how well each vaccine does at preventing severe symptoms leading to hospitalization/death, but I've only seen that explicitly reported for the J&J vaccine (where it was 100% during the clinical trial). A vaccine that keeps people alive and out of the hospital even if it doesn't completely prevent infection is far from useless.

So the day after getting the shot and I feel fine. I took the Moderna vaccine and have an appointment for the booster in 4 weeks.

Is the 3rd nipple itchy?

This didn't happen did it?

hitbyambulance wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 2:46 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 1:06 pm My brother and SiL in NY, who had appointments scheduled for March, managed to find open slots today for their first shot. But they had to drive three hours away to get them.

my parents were complaining that they had to drive an hour to the nearest one, so 'they'll just wait a few more months'

aaaand i just heard they finally got appointments for next week for the first dose (this is in central MN)

My wife has an appointment for her first shot tomorrow morning (via Atlantic Health in NJ). She got a text from them on Thursday and immediately made the appointment.

She doesn't normally get the flu vaccine because she's had a bad reaction to it in the past, but she is definitely getting this. I'm driving her over just in case.

I haven't heard from them yet for myself, but I signed up at the same place about a week or two after she did.

Make sure the place has epi pens and such handy.

Ready or not, The New Normal is coming to Mass. next month.

Massachusetts sports venues, concert spaces, and theaters will be able to reopen in coming weeks, Governor Charlie Baker announced Thursday, laying out for the first time a concrete timeline to bring back segments of the economy that have remained shuttered since the initial wave of the COVID-19 pandemic nearly a year ago.

The governor said indoor performance venues will be able to open as soon as Monday at half of their normal capacity, and stadiums and arenas will be slated to welcome small crowds again three weeks later, on March 22. The moves are part of a broader reopening plan that also will end capacity limits for restaurants next week if they can continue social distancing and other restrictions for patrons.

That will get postponed if cases start to spike again. I'm of the opinion that it's premature and sends the wrong signal. I won't be changing my behavior or participating in the grand reopening, at least not until I've been vaccinated -- which might happen in April, optimistically, but more likely May or June.

Scuzz wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:17 pm So the day after getting the shot and I feel fine. I took the Moderna vaccine and have an appointment for the booster in 4 weeks.

It's the second that gets to people.

surprising no one, J&J's adenovirus viral vector vaccine gets the nod in the US

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... on-vaccine

now cue the squabbling about it being 'not as good' as Pfizer's and Moderna's mRNA vaccines

Well, it's almost got the official nod. Probably tomorrow.

Max Peck wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 11:23 am How effective is the AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine?

A group of experts on immunization working with the World Health Organization is recommending the use of AstraZeneca’s vaccine, even in countries where variants emerged as dominant.

That guidance comes after a small study in South Africa suggested AstraZeneca’s vaccine was only minimally effective against the variant first detected there, causing the country to halt use of the product earlier this month.

South Africa said it would instead give the still-unapproved Johnson and Johnson vaccine to front-line health workers to see how it protects against the more contagious variant that’s dominant there.

Oxford University, who helped develop the AstraZeneca vaccine, has said researchers were tweaking their product by inserting a genetic sequence from that specific variant.

AstraZeneca’s vaccine has some promising early data suggesting it works against another variant first detected in the U.K. Findings based on swabs taken from around 500 volunteers in trials between October and January showed a 74.6 per cent efficacy rate against that variant.

Given a choice between the AstraZeneca vaccine and no vaccine, I'll take what I can get. I'd be happier to know how well each vaccine does at preventing severe symptoms leading to hospitalization/death, but I've only seen that explicitly reported for the J&J vaccine (where it was 100% during the clinical trial). A vaccine that keeps people alive and out of the hospital even if it doesn't completely prevent infection is far from useless.

That's the thing, not sure we will get a choice other than "vaccine or no vaccine" - I'm on board to take the AZ vaccine if I can get in line for the tail end to get a Moderna or Pfizer vaccine; but if I am only going to get one - I'd rather wait a few more months and get an mRNA based vaccine that works. My distrust meter for our politicians here is off the charts, maybe that's clouding my judgement - but I want the best possible option to prevent infection (not just make the infection suck less, I am NOT ok with "only" 50% lung damage because the infection was lighter). Time will tell if we are given the option.

I don't believe that there is going to be enough of the (expensive) mRNA vaccines to go around any time soon. I expect that most of us are going to get the (much less expensive) old-school vaccines. As far as I'm concerned, any vaccine that keeps people out of the hospital and alive is a good vaccine.

If I was going to be pissed at "the politicians" for anything, it would be that the Ontario government waited until this month to decide, or at least announce, that rather than coming up with a plan to vaccinate everyone they are devolving responsibility for designing and implementing vaccination plans to the individual public health units across the province. Hopefully the public health units knew this was coming and have been working on their individual plans, but the complete silence on the topic so far from Ottawa Public Health makes me think that they may be scrambling to come up with a plan after the provincial government punted the problem to them.

I don't want a 'lesser' vaccine, but if we can tamp the sucker down for now to the point that we can return to business as almost-usual and stop people from dying, we can look at getting the 'better' vaccine when it comes time for boosters.

Not ideal, but in an emergency, sometimes you have to make compromises to get through.

Anything to avoid hospitalization is good enough for me. I got the Pfizer vaccine but would have happily taken the J&J one had it been offered. In my area, 'waiting a few months' could be the same as 'dead in a few months', so absolutely not a choice I'd willingly make.

The main problem with J&J is that at 40% infectious, I'll never feel it's acceptable to participate in social events, go to restaurants, etc. In other words, quarantine protocol would continue indefinitely.

Jeff V wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:05 pm The main problem with J&J is that at 40% infectious, I'll never feel it's acceptable to participate in social events, go to restaurants, etc. In other words, quarantine protocol would continue indefinitely.

The flu vaccine is the exact same way if not worse and you were still going to social events right? The main thing that the flu vaccine does (as I understand it) is keep you out of the hospital. The HI N1 1918 Influenza pandemic was no joke, it killed way more people than Covid has so far. The J&J Covid vaccine will do the same thing as the current flu vaccine is my understanding. They would have stood in line for hours for that vaccine in 1918, done whatever it took. Just because there's better, that doesn't prevent good enough.

The only question that I don't know the answer to is if it helps prevents the debilitating effects of Covid. That could make a difference, but still, as I said, I'd rather take it and be alive in a few months, social events or not.

I'm not especially familiar with asymptomatic spread of flu being a huge thing. When people get it, they are pretty much knocked down for several days (not weeks or months). Infected flu people are still extremely risky to non-vaccinated, which a sizeable portion of the population will remain for at least the remainder of this year.

Also consider the efficacy of flu vaccine is very high for the strains it's concocted for each year, and not so effective against variants that haven't been included in the vaccine but still circulate in lesser amounts. Some of the Covid variants are already proving somewhat resistant to some of the vaccines. I haven't heard how the J&J fares with the S. African variant, for example.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/16/africa/s ... index.html

"Developed by Janssen, Johnson & Johnson's Belgium-based vaccine division, the single-dose vaccine has shown to be effective in preventing moderate and severe disease from South Africa's dominant coronavirus variant with an efficacy of 57% in trials conducted in South Africa. The B.1.351 variant was responsible for 95% of cases in that trial, and has now appeared in more than 44 countries."

None of the vaccines have undergone clinical trials with any of the variants because clinical trials take a long long time. So if variants are your concern, I'm not sure if there's a reason to wait or choose. And tomorrow there could be a new variant, apparently there's a NYC variant coming along.

The flu vaccine rarely reaches expected immunity for all the variants it makes as well, yet as I said, folks still went out.

You're free to do what you want of course, I'm not accepting your justifications for one over the other is all. If it just doesn't feel right, then it doesn't feel right.

Max Peck wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:27 am I don't believe that there is going to be enough of the (expensive) mRNA vaccines to go around any time soon. I expect that most of us are going to get the (much less expensive) old-school vaccines. As far as I'm concerned, any vaccine that keeps people out of the hospital and alive is a good vaccine.

If I was going to be pissed at "the politicians" for anything, it would be that the Ontario government waited until this month to decide, or at least announce, that rather than coming up with a plan to vaccinate everyone they are devolving responsibility for designing and implementing vaccination plans to the individual public health units across the province. Hopefully the public health units knew this was coming and have been working on their individual plans, but the complete silence on the topic so far from Ottawa Public Health makes me think that they may be scrambling to come up with a plan after the provincial government punted the problem to them.

I don't think this was a surprise to the health units though, although I'm not sure.. I actually think having the health units handle it is a smart move, they are familiar with their own territory and what resources they have at their disposal. I'm in wellington dufferin guelph which is slightly ahead of schedule on vaccinations and already has their portal online -- I've got to think they all had a heads up and didn't pull a portal out of their ass over night.

The problem is people keep comparing COVID to the flu (the flu shot, flu symptoms etc) and it's nowhere near comparable. If I get the flu at 40 years old, I'm not dying; yes older folks, people with immune system troubles etc are at high risk -- but the flu isn't going to make me randomly have strokes, or scar my lungs, or attack my heart and damage the muscle. I want none of that, not even 40% of that - and the Canadian governments are letting people make the jump that the AZ vaccine is as good as an mRNA one, and that is simply just not factual by any stretch. We supposedly have locked in 40 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine alone for the country - so why not just prioritize these, or at least use the AZ to fill the gap and then get the mRNA into people's arms?

I don't have the answers - I am just really concerned about the false sense of security the AZ vaccine is going to cause. You think people are being fucking stupid right now with masks (lack thereof) and social distancing rules not being followed? Wait for it.