Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:24 am

My JuiceBox 40 made in 2018 appears to be dying. It has a "stuck contactor" warning. The unofficial official fix is to hit the box a few times. This actually worked, but the fault came back on the next charge, so I really don't want to do it again. It is out of the 3 year warranty, so Enel X will only give me $100 off a new one - still a $500 purchase. A former employee has a business providing upgraded contactors for $67 and has an iFixit walkthrough that makes it look doable.

The first step is to get the front panel off. Apparently they have used 3 different type of screws over the years and I got the worst type - 2.5mm Hex that are known to strip easily. Assuming I can get it open, I think I'll go the $67 route. If I fail, I think I'll go with a completely different charger as I'm kind of surprised it failed after so little time.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 11:41 am

Good luck.

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:15 pm

Electricity and plumbing. No thank you. But good luck to you, stess.

Formix · Post by **Formix** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 4:52 am

stessier wrote: Thu Jul 13, 2023 8:24 am My JuiceBox 40 made in 2018 appears to be dying.

As someone who just installed a juicebox 48 . . . this is concerning. I hope the DIY works for you, that's probably the route I would take as well. I'll be interested to hear how it turns out.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:37 am

Here is the iFixit guide. I found a video of someone who completed the repair and in their case, the contactor burned up and melted some of the wires. I don't think that happened to mine - I don't smell anything and he said his was rather pungent. I'll be trying to get it open tomorrow and will report back.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:56 am

I would think that if your contactor failed catastrophically, you'd know by now.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:56 pm

Quick recap of our latest road trip. Tl;dr - not far off from the prior few.

Rain the entire width of Iowa, a lot of fog on Maine mornings, and a little 1,000-year flooding in Vermont led to some 'interesting' moments.
Acadia and Niagara were both fantastic, and we'll need to get back to Cuyahoga some time to do it justice.

Stats:
-Drove 5,000 miles, ~93% on autopilot
-Spotted 48.5 states' license plates, plus 4 Canadian provinces
-Used electricity equivalent to ~58 gallons of gasoline
-16 days
-12 states
-3 National Park sites, 1 doozy of a state park (Niagara)
-1 sunburn
-<redacted> servings of ice cream

Overall the car did great.

A few EV-specific observations:
-Autopilot was, as it's always been, a huge plus on this trip. We used it almost exclusively on the long legs (TeslaFi says ~93% of the time), and had very few issues.
-Issues we did have: a handful of not-strong phantom braking events; one time entering Autopilot jail for passing someone at highway speeds without first remembering to disengage AP (I maintain that moving straight to AP jail in this scenario without some level of warning is a bad and unsafe design decision); and one leg where the car seemingly randomly decided that AP functions were lost. Thankfully they returned after the car slept for awhile.
-Supercharging remains awesome. We Supercharged 30 times on this trip, had zero waits, and no issues until our last charge, in Brush. After ~20 kWh, charge rate went to 0 and stayed there for a minute. I imagine it would have recovered, but I moved the car to another stall and it picked up fine from there. Never seen that happen before. Every other stop we were charging in < 10 seconds and held the the expected speeds all the way through.
-Non-Supercharging DCFC remains less awesome. I used exactly one Electrify America station, and it stopped charging on me partway through (maybe because I posted about it here as a successful charge before it had actually finished successfully...). Had to walk back out and un/re-plug to get it going again. Also used a handful of non-Tesla Level 2 charging locations with no issues.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:11 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:56 pm
Stats:

-Spotted 48.5 states' license plates, plus 4 Canadian provinces

I was going to ask on facebook...

What is the half license plate?

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:20 pm

naednek wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 1:11 pm
Zaxxon wrote: Mon Jul 17, 2023 12:56 pm
Stats:

-Spotted 48.5 states' license plates, plus 4 Canadian provinces
I was going to ask on facebook...

What is the half license plate?

Hawaii, where someone had stuck a Hawaii license plate on the front of their car, which had a Kentucky (IIRC) plate on the back. So it wasn't registered in HI, but it was a Hawaii plate. So I claimed half-credit for us.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jul 19, 2023 5:35 pm

Nissan.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jul 26, 2023 2:07 pm

Seven Automakers to Build EV Charging Network with 30,000 Stalls

Will include both CCS and NACS. This is awesome, and also is tossed firmly into the 'will believe it when see it' bin. They're targeting the NEVI standards, so should be eligible for that sweet government cashola. First US stations in the US next year, Canada to follow. The 30k # is for 2030.

Hrothgar · Post by **Hrothgar** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:04 pm

Any thoughts on Toyota's solid state battery? It sounds rather too good to be true.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:09 pm

Hrothgar wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:04 pm Any thoughts on Toyota's solid state battery? It sounds rather too good to be true.

I haven't looked closely at this particular announcement. Toyota seems to always have something super-awesome 3-5 years out. That timeline never shrinks.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:32 pm

Hrothgar wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:04 pm Any thoughts on Toyota's solid state battery? It sounds rather too good to be true.

Good read. It is too good to be true. Until someone actually mass produces a "solid state" battery we should remain skeptical. We should also just generally be skeptical announcements of "solid state" batteries since it is somewhat a generic term anyway. It'd be like they announced a lithium battery without delving into the particular chemistry. It can mean many things.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:35 pm

More on this, and on Toyota's past similar claims.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:13 pm

An electric car on a car hauler caught fire. Took 4 fire companies and 6000 gallons of water to put it out. They mentioned how volatile and hot electric car batteries burn.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:27 pm

Link?

An EV FSD (just learned this one, full service driving) car hacked into a smoke detector and when it went off the car drove into the fire, yelled at everyone to get in Nightrider style, got the whole family out to safety and somehow remembered to pick up the family photo album too.

Formix · Post by **Formix** » Fri Jul 28, 2023 5:21 am

malchior wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:32 pm
Hrothgar wrote: Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:04 pm Any thoughts on Toyota's solid state battery? It sounds rather too good to be true.
Good read. It is too good to be true. Until someone actually mass produces a "solid state" battery we should remain skeptical. We should also just generally be skeptical announcements of "solid state" batteries since it is somewhat a generic term anyway. It'd be like they announced a lithium battery without delving into the particular chemistry. It can mean many things.

Me and my quantumscape stock hopes that QS is the one to pull it off.....

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Aug 03, 2023 12:20 pm

malchior wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 1:38 pm Re: Magic Dock - Tesla out of nowhere stood up a new charging station about 1 mile from me. It is apparently in the final stages of inspection and curious to see if a brand new installation gets the CCS treatment. I am cautiously optimistic the federal credits are really driving Tesla to rapidly expand their network.

I guess the news of other companies adapting NACS isn't a death-knell to the Magic Dock--at least not yet. A new site just opened in Fort Worth, TX.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:25 pm

The current requirement is CCS so I imagine they'll roll out CCS until the government wakes up and smells the marketplace.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:27 pm

malchior wrote: Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:25 pm The current requirement is CCS so I imagine they'll roll out CCS until the government wakes up and smells the marketplace.

It's just weird because they are definitely not doing CCS in general. Something like 98% of new installs are not doing Magic Dock. So are they just testing some more of these for funsies, or do they want NEVI funding for only specific sites, or was this one just in the works for a long time?

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Aug 03, 2023 3:32 pm

Good points. There are lots of possible explanations - off the top of my head? Rolling out magic dock could be supply constrained or they might be using data that indicates where they have enough "Tesla-only" capacity and can afford to build some extra capacity targeting non-Tesla. They also could be prioritizing local, state, and Fed incentives.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Aug 03, 2023 6:52 pm

Some day in the future people will look back and laugh at calling them supercharger stations as they can charge in under 1 minute and be off.

Remember years ago when they thought about in road charge as you go?

em2nought · Post by **em2nought** » Thu Aug 03, 2023 7:06 pm

Somebody figured out a way to make concrete into a capacitor. https://newatlas.com/architecture/mit-c ... ic%20cars.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sun Aug 06, 2023 3:45 pm

stessier wrote: Fri Jul 14, 2023 8:37 am Here is the iFixit guide. I found a video of someone who completed the repair and in their case, the contactor burned up and melted some of the wires. I don't think that happened to mine - I don't smell anything and he said his was rather pungent. I'll be trying to get it open tomorrow and will report back.

Finally got around to this repair this weekend. I have no experience pulling wires from connectors, so pulling the pilot wire took the longest time, but I still completed it in under an hour. The car is charging now and everything seems OK - of course the real test comes when the car stops and if the relay closes.

Edit: Success on all fronts!

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Aug 07, 2023 10:15 am

Part 2 of the OOS Race to Vegas finally dropped. Man, EA is just such a clusterfuck right now. For those who didn't watch part 1, that ended at the very first charge after leaving CO with the non-Teslas already effectively eliminated from contention. It'll be interesting to see what level of issues the Supercharger network ends up having once it's open to the rest of the OEMs. I'm sure there will be some rough edges, but yegads. I'm < 1/2way through this 2nd episode and these guys have already hit pretty much every charging issue conceivable--90-min wait, offline stalls, massively derated charging, Plug-and-Charge failure, account issue, Signet Surge...

Most frustrating because both of these non-Tesla cars seem awesome. They're just nuked by their charging network.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Aug 15, 2023 5:30 pm

Magic Dock, home edition.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 6:12 pm

Ok, I'm still in the market, but took a break from researching.

I have to make some concessions to my wife's worries, concerns and requirements, not all of them rational, but it is what it is. I don't drive often and won't be driving the new one often, so the car is really for her, for the family's benefit.

So it looks like I might have to settle for a PHEV. I was worried that I would have to go with just a standard hybrid, but those don't come with government money and there are a few PHEV that seem to work.

I need something mid-SUV sized at a minimum. I might be able to convince her to go with a smaller SUV body, but she is seriously stressed about the lack of space.

I started out looking at the Honda CRV regular hybrid (which felt really nice when I sat in it) but then I realized the Toyota RAV 4 comes in a PHEV flavour. It's a bit too small.

What I need help with is convincing myself that Kia and Hyundai are no longer the quality shitshow they were during their first few years. I realize there are many good reviews out there, but I have a deep seated prejudice against them. Hell, I'm not a fan of North American companies in general, just because. Not overly rational, I know. So if you could help convince me that I'm not stuck with Toyota and/or Honda (they are way behind on EV's, it seems) for mid-range, mid-value, mid-quality, I can expand my research. Otherwise I'll probably end up with a RAV 4 or even Sienna.

I am not enjoying myself, I'm too old and the EV tech is too different that I am struggling to get any level of confidence in terms of buying decisions.

We might end up having this conversation yet again in a few months.

Oh, can you still get deals at the end of the year when the new year models come out? When does that usually happen? Fall? December?

TheMix · Post by **TheMix** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 9:58 pm

I can tell you that we will probably end up with the Hyundai. My wife has had a Hyundai sedan for 22+ years now. It's been a great car. Since I want the cargo space, I'm not fighting her on the decision.

Also, apparently Hyundai and Kia have the top default support packages.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 10:07 pm

A power outage (we have them constantly around here. DTE have become the worst in the last five years) blew up my sisters home charger for her Mach E. That would make me... unhappy. Just getting one installed is expensive. Having to pay to get two installed? I dunno if Ford's charge systems are inferior or if that's a risk you have to consider, generally.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:30 pm

A power outage should not damage a charger. Maybe a surge? Also generally won’t but if the panel breaker failed, maybe.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:48 pm

LordMortis wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 10:07 pm A power outage (we have them constantly around here. DTE have become the worst in the last five years) blew up my sisters home charger for her Mach E. That would make me... unhappy. Just getting one installed is expensive. Having to pay to get two installed? I dunno if Ford's charge systems are inferior or if that's a risk you have to consider, generally.

She didn't use a gas generator to power the charger, did she?

In any case, here is a "Power outage, now car won't charge" post on a mach e forum.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sun Sep 10, 2023 9:29 am

Unagi wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:48 pm
LordMortis wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 10:07 pm A power outage (we have them constantly around here. DTE have become the worst in the last five years) blew up my sisters home charger for her Mach E. That would make me... unhappy. Just getting one installed is expensive. Having to pay to get two installed? I dunno if Ford's charge systems are inferior or if that's a risk you have to consider, generally.
She didn't use a gas generator to power the charger, did she?

In any case, here is a "Power outage, now car won't charge" post on a mach e forum.

AFAIK she does not.

The link is interesting, I'd let her know but I'm sure by now she knows if the car was somehow the problem and not the charger. I'll try to remember to ask how it all worked out the next time we talk.

Freyland · Post by **Freyland** » Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:05 pm

Unagi wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:48 pm
LordMortis wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 10:07 pm A power outage (we have them constantly around here. DTE have become the worst in the last five years) blew up my sisters home charger for her Mach E. That would make me... unhappy. Just getting one installed is expensive. Having to pay to get two installed? I dunno if Ford's charge systems are inferior or if that's a risk you have to consider, generally.
She didn't use a gas generator to power the charger, did she?

In any case, here is a "Power outage, now car won't charge" post on a mach e forum.

Is using the charger with a generator a bad idea, then?

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Mon Sep 11, 2023 7:43 am

So I asked my wife if she recalled the interior space of the hybrid Honda CRV we sat in, and asked if she thought that would be enough. She semi-enthusiastically agreed that it would be tight with the whole family but in general it would be enough.

I said good, because Kia and Hyundai both offer PHEVs with similar interior space so I just need to convince myself that Korean car manufacturers aren't making crap any more and then we can decide on which model to buy.

Her face dropped and she grumpily asked me why I asked her about the CRV interior space then...

I'm not the most insightful husband, but I'm guessing she's not excited about buying a Kia or Hyundai.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:17 am

FWIW, they’re both kicking Honda’s ass, tech and awards wise, these days.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:28 am

Freyland wrote: Sun Sep 10, 2023 11:05 pm
Unagi wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 11:48 pm
LordMortis wrote: Sat Sep 09, 2023 10:07 pm A power outage (we have them constantly around here. DTE have become the worst in the last five years) blew up my sisters home charger for her Mach E. That would make me... unhappy. Just getting one installed is expensive. Having to pay to get two installed? I dunno if Ford's charge systems are inferior or if that's a risk you have to consider, generally.
She didn't use a gas generator to power the charger, did she?

In any case, here is a "Power outage, now car won't charge" post on a mach e forum.
Is using the charger with a generator a bad idea, then?

Apparently they “do not recommend” it.

I would think that the chargers are designed to try and protect the car, but it does sound like in certain special situations the charger can actually hurt the car.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:43 am

Unagi wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:28 am I would think that the chargers are designed to try and protect the car, but it does sound like in certain special situations the charger can actually hurt the car.

Yeah, as you pretty much need an electrician to hardwire it, you'd think it would have surge suppression and industrial voltage regulation built in along with some sort of diagnostic if it went FUBAR build in. What can you do to set up insulation and if it's possible, why isn't that built in as a recommendation? I would have never even considered such things until the person with an EV closest to me had a problem. I would have just assumed it was part of the technology. Power outages around here are endemic in the last five years or so, as are gas generator backups as a reaction.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:57 am

FWIW, you shouldn't need a home charger for a PHEV. I just plug mine into a regular outlet in the garage. It's a slow charge, but you're also not charging up a fully electric vehicle.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:02 am

LordMortis wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:43 am
Unagi wrote: Mon Sep 11, 2023 8:28 am I would think that the chargers are designed to try and protect the car, but it does sound like in certain special situations the charger can actually hurt the car.
Yeah, as you pretty much need an electrician to hardwire it, you'd think it would have surge suppression and industrial voltage regulation built in along with some sort of diagnostic if it went FUBAR build in. What can you do to set up insulation and if it's possible, why isn't that built in as a recommendation? I would have never even considered such things until the person with an EV closest to me had a problem. I would have just assumed it was part of the technology. Power outages around here are endemic in the last five years or so, as are gas generator backups as a reaction.

What ILB said. But also, these things *do* have protection and monitoring built in. At least the good ones do. Some level of surge protection, and generally multiple temperature sensors. I would find out what actually happened before continuing this line of random guessing.