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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:09 pm
by Holman
Newcastle wrote:@ Elguapo

Couldn't Daddy trump just issue a blanket pardon and clean off any associates crimes/misdeeds/etc?
This is what has always confused me about Ford's pardon of Nixon. I was always under the impression that a *conviction* could be pardoned, but that a pardon could not clear someone of suspicion or cut off prosecution.

But apparently that's not so, and Ford's pardon actually prevented prosecution (and not just Congressional impeachment). What's weird is that Ford's pardon was a blanket action that did not specify particular crimes or suspicions being eliminated.

If it had come out in 1976 that Nixon had had someone murdered in 1972 to hide his wrongdoings, would Ford's 1974 pardon have retroactively forgiven that too?

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:13 pm
by $iljanus
Smoove_B wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Reading this story significantly raised my estimated probability that many / most of the senior Trump people wind up in jail.
If you'll remember, there were comments made by members of the intelligence community back in December or January that indicated it was going to happen. Also, let's not forget what Eric said last night on Lumpy's show:
Appearing on Fox News with host Sean Hannity, Eric Trump smeared his liberal detractors, saying, “They’re not even people.”

Asked by host Hannity, “Don’t you wish you went to Washington so you could deal with this everyday?” the president’s son sneered at Democrats.

“I’ve never seen hatred like this, ” he responded. “To me, they’re not even people. It is so so sad.”
He's quite endearing.
I think the word Eric was looking for is Untermenschen. That would have played well with the Breitbart crowd.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 10:19 pm
by Kraken
Holman wrote:Meanwhile, on the Good Timeline, headlines since January have been dominated by President Clinton not dissolving her charitable foundation quickly enough.
At roughly this point in Obama's presidency, pundits were slamming him for putting Dijon mustard on his hot dog. Many more such scandals would ensue.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:40 pm
by Moliere
President Trump continues to make sterling judicial nominations
The new appellate nominees are Justice Allison H. Eid of the Colorado Supreme Court for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 10th Circuit, Professor Stephanos Bibas of the University of Pennsylvania Law School for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 3rd Circuit, and U.S. District Judge Ralph R. Erickson of North Dakota for the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 8th Circuit.

These are impressive nominees. Eid was previously listed on President Trump’s list of potential Supreme Court nominees and, as Orin notes, Bibas is among the nation’s most prominent and important criminal procedure scholars, and has argued several cases before the U.S. Supreme Court.

Although one might not have expected this, the Trump administration appears to have a soft spot for academics. Five of the nine circuit court nominees announced thus far are current or former law professors (Eid, Bibas, Joan Larsen, David Stras and Amy Coney Barrett). Much like the Reagan administration, this administration appears to believe that appointing academics is one way to maximize its influence on the federal judiciary. President Ronald Reagan placed quite a few prominent legal academics on the bench, including Antonin Scalia, Frank Easterbrook, Douglas Ginsburg and Stephen Williams, and these nominations certainly had an outsize influence on the courts.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 8:14 pm
by Zarathud
Academics have easier to identify politics. It's all about the litmus tests.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:04 pm
by Max Peck
The question is, who is picking them for him? Trump himself doesn't know enough to be doing it.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:30 pm
by Zarathud
The lists are straight from the Heritage Foundation and Federalist Society. Trump has few legal connections of his own, so it's purely special interest driven.

Heritage Foundation was formed because Nixon was "too liberal" and brought on Sen. Tim DeMint of the Tea Party. Ironically, it also came up with Romneycare which became Obamacare.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:16 pm
by Scoop20906
Question: purely hypothetical since I doubt he would want the responsibly but what does everyone think of James Comey running for president in 2020?


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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:20 pm
by Holman
I think it would be difficult for Comey to find a home at the top of any ticket. His politics are said to be moderate Republican, but he is now Public Enemy #1 on the right.

I think the next Democratic president should offer him his old job back. Or maybe Attorney General, assuming his heart is in the right place on civil rights and certain other issues.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:58 pm
by Rip
Image

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 8:04 pm
by Scoop20906
I'd think he'd be a great president regardless of his politics. I'd even vote republican to support him.


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Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:14 pm
by Jaymann
I can't forgive him for his November surprise. At the time I thought Trump owned him.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 9:42 pm
by hepcat
Yeah, not a fan of Comey. It's Biden all the way for me.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 10:42 pm
by Max Peck
Comey has no future in politics or public service, he just has too much baggage from this last year. He doesn't strike me as the type to become a cable news pundit, so I'd guess he'll either go into private practice or academia.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 12:49 am
by Chaz
I like Biden a lot. I'd vote for him. But I can't think of a worse response to the 2016 red hat backlash than to nominate Obama's VP, the Washington institution.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 8:58 am
by Holman
link

So Comey is "the leaker," the boogeyman who has been saying all those mean things about Trump all along? Apparently Lewandowski has been floating the possibility that Comey was the arch-leaker of just about everything embarrassing and that he should go to jail for it.

This is the stuff of Stalinist fantasy, but that's what plays in TrumpLand.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:19 am
by hepcat
Chaz wrote:I like Biden a lot. I'd vote for him. But I can't think of a worse response to the 2016 red hat backlash than to nominate Obama's VP, the Washington institution.
I think you underestimate how nostalgic people are going to be after even only a few more months of President Buffoon and the Bumbling Rangers.

Having someone in charge who reads above a 6th grade level may be the low bar at this point, but I think those who truly felt Obama was a good leader are starting to grow in number by leaps and bounds at this point.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:43 am
by Kraken
hepcat wrote:
Chaz wrote:I like Biden a lot. I'd vote for him. But I can't think of a worse response to the 2016 red hat backlash than to nominate Obama's VP, the Washington institution.
I think you underestimate how nostalgic people are going to be after even only a few more months of President Buffoon and the Bumbling Rangers.

Having someone in charge who reads above a 6th grade level may be the low bar at this point, but I think those who truly felt Obama was a good leader are starting to grow in number by leaps and bounds at this point.
It is too early to say whether Trump's rise and fall will make the electorate nostalgic for moderation or push us farther to the extremes. I expect the latter.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:21 am
by Holman
The administration is bunkering down to do it all the hard way: Priebus given until July 4 to fix the WH.

This means a staff shakeup is coming. Sean Spicer will probably be out, Kellyanne Conway (if she isn't already), any number of minor funtionaries who might be holdovers from past administrations, and probably Priebus himself. Anyone has ever been suspected of leaking will probably get the axe.

The rumor is that Corey Lewandowski is coming back (either as a senior advisor or in Priebus' role) and also David Bossie. Both of these guys are right-wing activists and ideologues.

Looks like Bannon is winning the game of thrones.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:23 am
by Smoove_B
It was only a matter of time before the deck chairs were re-arranged.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:39 am
by Paingod
Smoove_B wrote:It was only a matter of time before the deck chairs were re-arranged.
It's going to be interesting, though, to see who the Mangerine can get working for him when everyone has seen how well things are going now. I mean, doesn't he already have the best people he could find for round one?

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:57 am
by Holman
We already know that the only thing Trump wants is personal loyalty: co-conspirators who'll keep his secrets and tell him what he wants to hear.

Competence is no requirement. Josh Marshall has reported on the legal team Trump is building to defend himself. The lead is the guy Trump has always relied on for his divorces, real-estate lawsuits, and pushback against bad press; the other's specialty is religious-conservative lawsuits. Neither has any experience with the obstruction, money-laundering, and other issues Trump will be facing.

Meanwhile, the best-regarded and most experienced lawyers in just these areas are said to be beating down Robert Mueller's door...

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:08 am
by Captain Caveman
Holman wrote: Meanwhile, the best-regarded and most experienced lawyers in just these areas are said to be beating down Robert Mueller's door...
They're going to fire Mueller, aren't they? It seems inconceivable, but I fear it's coming. Sure the backlash would be severe, but it beats what he'd find and you know that the GOP in congress won't do anything.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:21 am
by Smoove_B
Captain Caveman wrote:They're going to fire Mueller, aren't they? It seems inconceivable, but I fear it's coming.
According to Trump's people:
One of President Donald Trump’s attorneys on Sunday wouldn't rule out the possibility the president would fire the special counsel appointed to look into his campaign’s potential ties to Russia.
So yeah, Mueller is totally going to get fired.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:24 am
by Remus West
Captain Caveman wrote:
Holman wrote: Meanwhile, the best-regarded and most experienced lawyers in just these areas are said to be beating down Robert Mueller's door...
They're going to fire Mueller, aren't they? It seems inconceivable, but I fear it's coming. Sure the backlash would be severe, but it beats what he'd find and you know that the GOP in congress won't do anything.
Firing Mueller may be the exact thing they need to galvanize some of the borderline Trump supporters. It just screams "guilty". I have to pray enough of the GOP has that little shred of moral and ethical strength to act should Trump follow through on the idea.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:44 am
by PLW
Holman wrote:The administration is bunkering down to do it all the hard way: Priebus given until July 4 to fix the WH.
I can think of only one thing that could fix the White House. Independence Day!

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:47 am
by Fitzy
However much I may dislike the Republican party right now, I can't imagine more than a few would stand by and support the firing of Mueller. Especially after they virtually all praised the decision to have him be the investigator.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:09 am
by coopasonic
PLW wrote:
Holman wrote:The administration is bunkering down to do it all the hard way: Priebus given until July 4 to fix the WH.
I can think of only one thing that could fix the White House. Independence Day!
I don't even care if the aliens win this time.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:19 am
by Captain Caveman
Fitzy wrote:However much I may dislike the Republican party right now, I can't imagine more than a few would stand by and support the firing of Mueller. Especially after they virtually all praised the decision to have him be the investigator.
Prepare to be surprised then. They used to praise Comey too, and now he's been so smeared in the right-wing media that it's a given in the base that he's a partisan hack. Even GOP leadership have been publicly criticizing him:
https://twitter.com/JohnCornyn/status/8 ... 1925096449

And now they're beginning to lay the groundwork on Mueller: https://twitter.com/BraddJaffy/status/8 ... 8651882497

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:23 am
by Chaz
Fitzy wrote:However much I may dislike the Republican party right now, I can't imagine more than a few would stand by and support the firing of Mueller. Especially after they virtually all praised the decision to have him be the investigator.
You've got WAY more faith in the current Republican party than I do. I expect that when it happens, many will express concern, then proceed to do exactly nothing.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:31 am
by Smoove_B
Exactly. Paul Ryan hit the news cycle last week suggesting it's all good because Trump doesn't know any better - he's still learning. This is the same guy that in the Fall of 2016 made a snarky Youtube video explaining to President Obama how the Constitution works. But (R)ussian President Twitter has absolutely no idea what he's doing? Just let him be - he'll figure it out. The absurdity of it all is both hilarious and frustrating.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:01 am
by Newcastle
I dont think anyone can fire a Special Counsel. Can they?

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:17 am
by Chaz
Newcastle wrote:I dont think anyone can fire a Special Counsel. Can they?
Nixon says "You'd think that, wouldn't you?"

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:27 am
by El Guapo
Chaz wrote:I like Biden a lot. I'd vote for him. But I can't think of a worse response to the 2016 red hat backlash than to nominate Obama's VP, the Washington institution.
I dunno. It seems like there are a lot of people who loved Obama and Sanders but hated Hillary for quasi-logical reasons. I think Biden could do fine, especially since he comes from a non-wealthy background and does the emoting / connecting thing much better than Hillary.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:36 am
by msteelers
Newcastle wrote:I dont think anyone can fire a Special Counsel. Can they?
They absolutely can. I don't know whether it can come directly from the president, or if it has to come from the Justice Department, but a special counsel can absolutely be fired.

Brian Kilmeade was making the case for firinga Mueller on his radio show a few minutes ago.

If/when it happens, look for the Justice department to make the move, and claim that the president had nothing to do with the decision.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:38 am
by Rip
Don't see why he would. It would be more expedient to just pardon anyone at risk in the investigation.

No point in having a pardon pad if you don't use it when doing so will serve you.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:39 am
by Holman
Biden would be 78 at his inauguration.

Reagan was 77 when he left office.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:40 am
by Holman
Rip wrote:Don't see why he would. It would be more expedient to just pardon anyone at risk in the investigation.

No point in having a pardon pad if you don't use it when doing so will serve you.
You're totally embracing that "corrupt as fuck," aren't you?

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:41 am
by hepcat
Trump isn't terribly good at the whole "thinking it through" thing though.
Holman wrote:
You're totally embracing that "corrupt as fuck," aren't you?
Rip would vote for John Wayne Gacy if it meant keeping a democrat out of the office. He's driven by spite, not a genuine belief in effective leadership.

Re: The Trump Presidency Thread

Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:43 am
by Kraken
Chaz wrote:
Fitzy wrote:However much I may dislike the Republican party right now, I can't imagine more than a few would stand by and support the firing of Mueller. Especially after they virtually all praised the decision to have him be the investigator.
You've got WAY more faith in the current Republican party than I do. I expect that when it happens, many will express concern, then proceed to do exactly nothing.
Self-preservation is everything -- that's just human nature. They will not abandon this sinking ship until they see their own careers threatened, and that's got to come from the bottom up. They will stampede for the lifeboats only if and when the wingnuts turn against Trump in sufficient numbers to endanger his sycophants. There's no sign of that happening yet and it's hard to imagine what will turn the tide. If it does happen, though, things will turn very quickly; Trump reigns through fear and bullying, not affection or inspiration, and I'm sure that the overwhelming majority of Republicans would be happy to be rid of him -- but only when they are sure that he won't take them down, too.

As one pundit wrote last week, Comey's testimony scored a couple of hits below the waterline. The ship is still afloat, but it's listing badly, and there are more torpedoes incoming.