Canada 2015-25 and Beyond: New Hope or Phantom Menace?

[Max Peck]

A friend tipped this to me: Made In Canada

Thanks for that, Max. I've noticed that it's missing quite a few things though. For example, under beer, they have one of our local breweries listed, but it's actually the newest one as they're missing the one that has been in business the longest. Not sure why they would have one, but not the other.

It's literally a one-person operation, apparently, so I expect it to be a work in progress. There's a page on the site where you can submit information on a business if you think they should add it.

[GreenGoo]

So Trump said tonight that Canada isn't viable as a country and repeated his 51st state annexation threat. Thus dude needs to stop.

I was also saying people needed to shutup and let think Trump he won on the border because now we have this

You keep making this mistake. None of drumpf's actions or words are directly because of what other people do or say. You have been told, literally in this thread, and not by me, that drumpf will come at us again no matter what we do regarding his made up reasons for attacking Canada, because those reasons are not valid and never were. They are a fiction. Sincerely or insincerely solving the fiction doesn't change anything for drumpf at all.

Anyway, it's just frustrating when I see you trying to figure out how to logic your way through drumpf, and particularly frustrating when I see you "blaming" others.

I don't have all the answers, but I know, after watching drumpf do this repeatedly to Americans for his entire first term, that it's not other peoples' fault.

[IceBear]

Fair enough. He wants our land and resources, everything else is a smoke screen. I am at peace now as I have accepted my fate that I will no longer be Canadian in the next few years. Hopefully my family and I make it to that point still alive; that's the best I can hope for right now. The US polls only show @40% strongly opposed to Canada becoming the 51st state and Trump's approval rating has actually gone up. Once the average American doesn't care anymore, he'll take us.

Edit: And yes, I know it sounded like I was blaming others for mocking Trump's deal; I know that it wouldn't have mattered in the long run, but I do think the more his ego is stroked the less vindictive he is. That's all I meant - it was coming anyway, but maybe not as fast and maybe these next negotiations would go smoother

[GreenGoo]

Listen, I'm unhappy too and his first term played hell with my mental state, and this time is no better. But it's not a whole lot worse either. I think you are being overly dramatic even if the threat is real in the sense that this is actually what he wants. He's not going to get it. I get that fatalism is a thing and that you think this is a fait compli, but it isn't. I recommend you talk to your doctor to help you get your feelings of despair under control, because they seem to be ruling you right now. Imagine how Americans (who didn't vote for drumpf) feel.

I'm not being facetious. You are clearly not in a good way, and (I think) you need help. I have my own doctor and meds that help, even if they aren't in place specifically for this scenario. I'm telling you to seek professional options, as you've said yourself that you are feeling self destructive.

I don't know how this is going to end, but there is zero chance we become the 51st state.

[IceBear]

I know. I have my annual next week and I have every intention of bringing up my mental state with my doctor when I do. My blood pressure will be very telling I'm sure.

[Unagi]

First, I honestly hope this is all just Trump BS. Every single person I know thinks Canada is an excellent neighbor and should remain that way.

However, I get the real concern. This is crazy time, without a doubt - but what I can't help but keep hearing you mentioning, is that you will maybe not be alive (or now your family, too) if these things started to actually manifest? Why is that?

[Unagi]

Also, IceBear - LordMortis shared a great video (IMO) on the general subject of Trump's presidency that (if you missed it, as it was in the Trump thread), I will re-share here because I think it may help you to listen to what he has to say about it all. It would apply here, to this 51st state thing.

This was really done well. Ezra Klien looks at overwhelming us with EOs and posits this GOP Administration is trying to crown a king with this dizzying activity while bypassing legislation. If you have thirteen minutes to listen while working on other things, it's worth the time.

[stessier]

I'm sorry, but you really are worrying about the Phantom Menace. Can he take Canada - yes. Our military is bigger if nothing else. He could also attack any other country in the world. But you have to ask would the military actually do it? And what would happen in America if he did? What would NATO do? Does he have people telling him these things (ie, are there people in the admin that don't want to die)?

Remember, this is the guy who said we should all be injecting bleach. He talks big and carries a very small stick.

[IceBear]

First, I honestly hope this is all just Trump BS. Every single person I know thinks Canada is an excellent neighbor and should remain that way.

However, I get the real concern. This is crazy time, without a doubt - but what I can't help but keep hearing you mentioning, is that you will maybe not be alive (or now your family, too) if these things started to actually manifest? Why is that?

If he used military force, my family and I are in the Toronto area which I would think would get hit hard. I don't think we're at that point yet, but at this point I can't rule it out completely in my mind (scary huh?)

[YellowKing]

He's not going to take over Canada. He uses insane statements like that to distract the media from the actual shady shit he's doing. He's actually admitted he wants world leaders to think he's crazy. We've dealt with this for an entire term previously, we're in on the con. Trump is as predictable as he is stupid.

[Blackhawk]

I've learned not to use "he would never" with Trump and MAGA.

At the same time, this is so far out there, and so against our interests that it's at the bottom of the list of likelihoods. He'd have his own supporters working against this. Hell, before we get anywhere near the point where he might actually act on this, he'll have alienated every one of our allies, crashed our economy, crippled our medical infrastructure in the face of health crises, and will have so much domestic unrest for the remainder of his term that he'll be too busy to think about hostile takeovers of Canada (by any interpretation.)

[Rumpy]

A friend tipped this to me: Made In Canada

Thanks for that, Max. I've noticed that it's missing quite a few things though. For example, under beer, they have one of our local breweries listed, but it's actually the newest one as they're missing the one that has been in business the longest. Not sure why they would have one, but not the other.

It's literally a one-person operation, apparently, so I expect it to be a work in progress. There's a page on the site where you can submit information on a business if you think they should add it.

Yeah, I just might. I was just surprised that he would have known one but not the other, especially since the newer one wouldn't have been possible without the work of the first paving the way for breweries in our city.

And Icebear, you'll always be Canadian. It's an identity and state of mind. Nobody can take that away from you. Remember that.

[Max Peck]

From a meta perspective it would be interesting to see what happens if he did order the US military into Canada. Would that be crossing a line where the cabinet, Congress or the military itself just says nope, you're insane, and remove him from power? Or would a bunch of people resign and get replaced with MAGA loyalists that fulfill the God-King's whim?

Everybody says he won't do it, but the real question is who will stop him if he tries? Who will stop him if he tries to use the military against US citizens who are protesting any of the things he's doing? Who will stop him from doing anything? He's already crossed so many actual red lines in the first couple of weeks that I really don't think that anything he says is so outlandish that he won't try to do it. In this case it's just a matter of whether the guys with the guns, who are the ones with ultimate power, will do literally anything he demands.

Now, how much energy do I put into worrying about it? None. Partly because there's no point in obsessing about the worst case scenario when there is nothing I can do about it above and beyond the preparations I've made for any other emergency, and partly because I spent my entire adult life living and working at one ground zero or another. MAD and I are old chums, and it's desensitized me enough so that one more possible but unlikely existential threat isn't all that upsetting. I'm still much more likely to get nuked by Russia than shot by MAGA stormtroopers.

[IceBear]

Logically I know nothing good comes out of worrying, and that's part of why I need medical help I think. My entire life I have been a worrier and always jump to the worst possible outcome. I was sure I failed 75% of my final exams in university, and every time my company downsized I was sure I was one of the ones to be let go. So, as much as I know that worrying about this is completely pointless because there's nothing I can do about it I can't stop obsessing over it. So, when I see my doctor next Wednesday I will finally speak to her about it (my wife has been suggesting this for years now, but I've been deflecting).

[Blackhawk]

That's all discounting NATO. Attacking a NATO ally would be complicated, as there's no clearly defined response to one member attacking another. It would take debate, but there is a real possibility that it would result in the entire world backing Canada against the US, as we ourselves would be in violation of the treaty. Even if it didn't, there would be major sanctions and penalties for putting one hostile soldier onto Canadian land.

A genuinely possible result of us attacking Canada would be a world war. Not many billionaires are going to be interested in that.

[Rumpy]

From a meta perspective it would be interesting to see what happens if he did order the US military into Canada. Would that be crossing a line where the cabinet, Congress or the military itself just says nope, you're insane, and remove him from power? Or would a bunch of people resign and get replaced with MAGA loyalists that fulfill the God-King's whim?

Yeah, an interesting thought process for sure. I think that if he were to even so much as touch us, he would be breaking a bunch of international laws and treaties. International law requires an act of provocation by the country being set foot on, if I'm not mistaken. Being that we haven't done anything, that would be considered an act of war. At that point, I think NATO countries would have intervene by at least making a joint statement. And we're already seeing the strong condemnation internationally.

[GreenGoo]

I've learned not to use "he would never" with Trump and MAGA.

Icebear is having some trouble. Can we stop saying "you never know!" until he's in a better headspace? Please and thank you.

[WYBaugh]

I've learned not to use "he would never" with Trump and MAGA.

Icebear is having some trouble. Can we stop saying "you never know!" until he's in a better headspace? Please and thank you.

This

[Holman]

A genuinely possible result of us attacking Canada would be a world war. Not many billionaires are going to be interested in that.

The billionaires will be concerned about what happens to their international assets when every nation in the world sanctions the US and its citizens for Trump's actions.

A world where Trump *actually* comes close to invading a long-time ally and crashing global finance is a world where certain extremely powerful people decide that he will experience sudden but not unexpected heart failure.

[Max Peck]

On a lighter note, I hear that this old Molson Canadian ad is getting a lot of love these days:

[Kraken]

I've learned not to use "he would never" with Trump and MAGA.

At the same time, this is so far out there, and so against our interests that it's at the bottom of the list of likelihoods. He'd have his own supporters working against this. Hell, before we get anywhere near the point where he might actually act on this, he'll have alienated every one of our allies, crashed our economy, crippled our medical infrastructure in the face of health crises, and will have so much domestic unrest for the remainder of his term that he'll be too busy to think about hostile takeovers of Canada (by any interpretation.)

Yeah, trump has a Constitution to shred. Turns out that's going to take longer than three weeks.

He might try to crush Canada with tariffs. He does love tariffs, or rather his misunderstanding of them, so that's plausible. But I wouldn't lose any sleep over the prospect of an invasion. At least, not until you see troop movements toward the border. Then we can all lose sleep together.

[Blackhawk]

I've learned not to use "he would never" with Trump and MAGA.

Icebear is having some trouble. Can we stop saying "you never know!" until he's in a better headspace? Please and thank you.

It wasn't intended to suggest that it was a realistic possibility. It (in context) was meant to double down on the idea that it was such an extreme stretch that it gets about as close to 'impossible' as I can attribute to Trump without feeling dishonest.

I do tend to state things a little too directly sometimes, so if it came off as insensitive, I apologize.

[IceBear]

I want to thank everyone for their encouragement. Yesterday afternoon I guess I had a full blown panic attack (something I haven't had before). My heart rate went through the roof, I was hyperventilating and got very dizzy to the point I thought I was going to pass out. Puts things into perspective a bit more for me...even if we are annexed I need to be here for my family and I won't do anyone any good like I was yesterday.

Thanks again. One of the downsides of working from home and having too much time on my hands is I can let my obsessive compulsive behaviour get the better of me without social distraction.

Edit: Plus I wouldn't want Donald Trump to be the cause of me not living my life. He doesn't deserve that much thought and effort.

[GreenGoo]

You're not alone. Americans all over the country are feeling similarly. And many felt that way during his first term as well. There are more than a few video essays about what it means to sexual assault victims to have their countrymen elect a known sexual assailant into the ultimate position of authority in the country.

tldr; It's bad.

[Roman]

I know. I have my annual next week and I have every intention of bringing up my mental state with my doctor when I do. My blood pressure will be very telling I'm sure.

#1 - get off social media (assuming that you are on it) as this worked immensely for me. I was so transfixed by what was happening down in the US for the past 10yrs. My twitter feed (entirely my 'fault') was nothing but anti Trudeau, anti Trump, anti immigrant etc etc and I didn't like the man I was becoming (mentally) so I have ZERO social media exposure now. And I make choiceful decisions on what articles to fully read vs just reading/skimming the article.

#2 - the US will never take over Canada. Stop even entertaining the idea here its just simply a waste of time and he's just saying this shit to distract from the actual BS that he is doing down there.

[IceBear]

I hope that's true for #2. I just envision a scenario where he hurts our economy so badly for so long that the maple-MAGAs get enough people to agree with them to join the US. Most of the people I personally know have sworn to never travel to the US and try not to buy anything from the US for a long as possible, so right now I don't see it, but in 2-3 years? That's my worry.

Yes, I limit my social media to funny pictures for the most part, but I have been paying too much attention to the news. Going to force myself to be less informed that I currently am.

[Rumpy]

Another reason why it will never happen: He can spout whatever he wants, but he literally holds no power over us. We are not his citizens, not his playthings. If he were to even try something, he would not only have to contend with Canadian law, which is even stricter than American law at times, but also international law and treaties, and being that he has no control over those, they aren't something that would be easily dismissed the way he can do in his own Country. It's just a way for him to constantly be in the spotlight, and we all know he loves being in the spotlight.

[Rumpy]

And just to add, Canada's ambassador to France says that merely threatening to invade a Country violates international law.

In response to a question about Greenland, Dion said such threats are not normal and violate the UN Charter. He said that merely threatening to invade another country is a violation of international law.

https://www.villagereport.ca/village-pi ... r-10214821

[Blackhawk]

Another reason why it will never happen: He can spout whatever he wants, but he literally holds no power over us.

There is one way - trade. But if he continues to pursue that, he's going to find that it backfires spectacularly, and you end up just cutting us out of your economy in favor of more reliable nations. You'll prosper, we'll sink.

[Alefroth]

Maybe Canada and Mexico will start doing more business.

[Blackhawk]

Now you're going to make us buy both oceans. The names Mere-a-Lago and the Trumpific Ocean aren't taken.

Don't worry - we'll let you use them. For a fee.

[gbasden]

I want to thank everyone for their encouragement. Yesterday afternoon I guess I had a full blown panic attack (something I haven't had before). My heart rate went through the roof, I was hyperventilating and got very dizzy to the point I thought I was going to pass out. Puts things into perspective a bit more for me...even if we are annexed I need to be here for my family and I won't do anyone any good like I was yesterday.

Thanks again. One of the downsides of working from home and having too much time on my hands is I can let my obsessive compulsive behaviour get the better of me without social distraction.

Edit: Plus I wouldn't want Donald Trump to be the cause of me not living my life. He doesn't deserve that much thought and effort.

My frequency of panic attacks have gone up dramatically in the last few weeks. I totally understand.

[YellowKing]

You're not alone. Americans all over the country are feeling similarly.

My sister-in-law (who is a therapist) said something to me that really helped, and it was along the lines of learning to "zoom in and out" to handle stress. When things in the larger world beyond your control are unbearable, you have to zoom in and focus on yourself and your immediate surroundings. And conversely, if things are unbearable close to home, you have to be able to zoom out and look at the bigger picture.

I've been really "zoomed in" this year. I've been focusing on self - taking guitar lessons, learning German, planning a trip overseas. And I've been focusing on family - really trying to put forth a greater effort in being a better dad and husband. It has helped me mentally a great deal. I still keep up with the news, but I don't obsess over it like I did pre-election. I read the headlines and then I move on.

And to hearken back to something IceBear said, whenever I start getting angry or down, I think about how I refuse to give the orange tyrant the satisfaction of living inside my head. I'm not going to ruin my health over that moron. F him.

 

[Rumpy]

Another reason why it will never happen: He can spout whatever he wants, but he literally holds no power over us.

There is one way - trade. But if he continues to pursue that, he's going to find that it backfires spectacularly, and you end up just cutting us out of your economy in favor of more reliable nations. You'll prosper, we'll sink.

I guess I should have said, aside from Trade, since the recent discussions have all been about trade.

And even with trade, it only ever works if the parties in question are on the same page. Canada has already started to look at different trading partners. So, we're not exactly powerless even there.

[Blackhawk]

Thus the you prospering, us sinking.

[Kraken]

I want to thank everyone for their encouragement. Yesterday afternoon I guess I had a full blown panic attack (something I haven't had before). My heart rate went through the roof, I was hyperventilating and got very dizzy to the point I thought I was going to pass out. Puts things into perspective a bit more for me...even if we are annexed I need to be here for my family and I won't do anyone any good like I was yesterday.

Thanks again. One of the downsides of working from home and having too much time on my hands is I can let my obsessive compulsive behaviour get the better of me without social distraction.

Edit: Plus I wouldn't want Donald Trump to be the cause of me not living my life. He doesn't deserve that much thought and effort.

My frequency of panic attacks have gone up dramatically in the last few weeks. I totally understand.

I doubled up on my antidepressants. This is fine.

IceBear, panic attacks can be controlled with anti-anxiety SSRIs like the one I'm on. Take advantage of Canada's superior healthcare system and ask your doctor to find one that's right for you.

[Blackhawk]

Yes, absolutely. When you hit the point at which anxiety starts controlling you instead of the other way around, get help. That kind of help really can help.

Actively worrying about something you have no control over is as much a form of self-torment as sticking needles in your arm, but it's a form that tends to take that control away from you, making you feel helpless to stop.

One thing you can do is pick an interest that really draws you in. Every time you start to think about the thing that causes the anxiety, force yourself to think about the other thing. Say, D&D. Make characters in your mind. Plot out an adventure in your head (or on paper.) It doesn't have to be D&D of course, just find something non-stressful that you can fixate on instead of the trigger.

[Rumpy]

My sister-in-law (who is a therapist) said something to me that really helped, and it was along the lines of learning to "zoom in and out" to handle stress. When things in the larger world beyond your control are unbearable, you have to zoom in and focus on yourself and your immediate surroundings. And conversely, if things are unbearable close to home, you have to be able to zoom out and look at the bigger picture.

That's good advice. While I haven't used those exact words myself, I do something similar. It's impossible to sweat everything, especially at a time when there are so many things happening all at once. And sometimes you just have to give yourself a mental reset. Basically boils down to taking baby steps, day after day.

And I can only imagine that worrying so much about something you have no control of is not good at all for blood pressure. For me in particular, I've learned that stress can raise cortisol levels, and too much cortisol can induce some serious health issues. For me, that meant vision issues due to a buildup of fluid in the back of the eye lifting up the retina causing distorted vision. I've had this happen to me twice in the last several years.

[LordMortis]

I doubled up on my antidepressants. This is fine.

IceBear, panic attacks can be controlled with anti-anxiety SSRIs like the one I'm on. Take advantage of Canada's superior healthcare system and ask your doctor to find one that's right for you.

Or if you are me, they can make them go off the rails. OtOH, I have xanax for just such an occasion. It's over a decade and the lowest dose available but I've been eying it and it's there if I need it. Hopefully, the half life isn't too bad. I've switched PCPs so I'm not sure the new one will fill it again without referring me back to a shrink and I'm not ready to go through that ringer again.

And I I just notification that I am start taking amlodipine in addition to losartan to keep my blood pressure down. Thanx GOP.

[Rumpy]

And now for something very Canadian, eh!