Octopus Overlords

Defiant wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:21 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:14 pm

Defiant wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:10 pm So apparently I missed this story, but on the Circus, one of the former CDC directors said that Pfizer was planning to cut corners on vaccine safety, that FDA Scientists called them out on it and Pfizer basically admitted it. They designed the trial for speed and the only way they could get an October release was not to accrue safety data.

Back in April or whenever they promised an October vaccine everyone knew they'd be cutting corners. There is no way to get it out that fast without sacrificing safe standard practices.

There was talk about things like doing things concurrently when you would otherwise do them sequential, spending more to start preparing things early for things that might come to nothing , etc, which results in wasted spending, but that's not the same thing as not collecting safety data.

Anyone familiar with the process was sounding alarm bells. Every doctor I know said they wouldn't touch a vaccine out before the end of the year unless it was under a clinical trial.

Yes, but that was more "That's a pipe dream that Donald Trump is pushing" (in the same way he makes so many other unrealistic claims), rather than an actual pharmaceutical company being complicit in trying to do it.

Defiant wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 12:51 pm Yes, but that was more "That's a pipe dream that Donald Trump is pushing" (in the same way he makes so many other unrealistic claims), rather than an actual pharmaceutical company being complicit in trying to do it.

The Administration gave them the go-ahead, explicitly. Pfizer isn't going to be on the hook.

Legally, no (I mean, they didn't release it because they were called out). But in the court of public opinion?

Eh, who am I kidding. People's attention spans aren't long en-...Squirrel!

Hope it doesn't hospitalize or kill people. As fast as its pushed I bet it does though. Im waiting at least a year.

Defiant wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 1:20 pm Legally, no (I mean, they didn't release it because they were called out). But in the court of public opinion?

Eh, who am I kidding. People's attention spans aren't long en-...Squirrel!

News of big pharma malfeasance has a short lifespan, possibly even shorter than Kanye West political insights.

Would you still get a vaccine if you had to get one every 3 months?..For life?

Daehawk wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:02 pm Would you still get a vaccine if you had to get one every 3 months?..For life?

Ask a Type 1 diabetic (or one's parent) where that bar is.

Daehawk wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:02 pm Would you still get a vaccine if you had to get one every 3 months?..For life?

Given the alternative - Yes. And I am deathly afraid of needles.

stessier wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:41 pm

Daehawk wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:02 pm Would you still get a vaccine if you had to get one every 3 months?..For life?

Given the alternative - Yes. And I am deathly afraid of needles.

I would very much like to say yes, but given the fact I have never had a flu vaccine... it's amazingly easy to put it off until the season has passed. On the other hand, the consequences here are on a whole different level. ON a third hand (damn side effects), somehow I doubt we will see enough vaccine adoption for herd immunity so...

Anyway I want my answer to be yes.

Daehawk wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:02 pm Would you still get a vaccine if you had to get one every 3 months?..For life?

When my wife was on chemo I had to give her shots 3 times a week for several years.

wonderpug wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:53 pm

Daehawk wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:02 pm Would you still get a vaccine if you had to get one every 3 months?..For life?

When my wife was on chemo I had to give her shots 3 times a week for several years.

I have MS, so I give myself a shot every other day. You get used to it very quickly.

Malificent wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:59 pm

wonderpug wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:53 pm

Daehawk wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 2:02 pm Would you still get a vaccine if you had to get one every 3 months?..For life?

When my wife was on chemo I had to give her shots 3 times a week for several years.

I have MS, so I give myself a shot every other day. You get used to it very quickly.

Yup. I think maybe the first 2-3 weeks she needed distractions and dreaded each one, but it didn't take long before it was just something annoying she got done ASAP with no fuss so she could move on with her day.

As NJ is sliding into chaos, 58% of people contacted by contact tracers between 10/10 and 10/17 refused to cooperate. In 20+ years, I've never seen anything like this.

Also, the State finally announced their vaccination goals, once the vaccine is available. As someone that has created, administered and staffed mass vaccination clinics...trouble:

New Jersey will aim to have 70% of its adult population vaccinated within six months once a COVID-19 vaccine is approved and available, state officials announced Monday.

To reach that lofty mark, about 81,000 people would have to be vaccinated a day for five days a week, state Health Commissioner Judith Persichilli said during a virtual coronavirus briefing in which officials laid out the first draft of the Garden State’s vaccination plan.

Granted, I've done it on a much small scale (~1000 over a few days), but this is a logistical behemoth.

Also note:

[Governor] Murphy also stressed that New Jersey will need federal help with funding.

“Let me be clear: If we do not receive any additional funds, achieving a 70% vaccination rate will take many years, if it happens at all,” he said.

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:06 pm As NJ is sliding into chaos, 58% of people contacted by contact tracers between 10/10 and 10/17 refused to cooperate. In 20+ years, I've never seen anything like this.

Wow!
Are there follow-up questions to assess why they are not willing to share?
And if so - could it be down to fear or embarrassment?

They dont want their 'freedom' impaired again. Fuck the country they are going to their friends house to party or out to eat at a skate party.

Roman wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:10 pmAre there follow-up questions to assess why they are not willing to share?
And if so - could it be down to fear or embarrassment?

No, there's few options for tracers to list details - won't answer phone, won't return calls after message left, won't answer specific questions, won't answer any questions, etc...

Tracers aren't really in a position to try an illicit reasoning - they're just looking for information.

Earlier in the summer when the outbreaks were associated with parties being attended by high school students, there was a fear that there would be prosecution over underage drinking.

Now I suspect the reasoning is related to freedom and rights to privacy. I don't think there's a greater understanding that the tracing is about trying to help people that might not realize they've been exposed and to try and stop additional spread.

Again, it's the usual - I don't care about others, I care about me and I'm not telling you anything.

Oddly enough, the biggest outbreak that I worked on was inside a correctional facility and I spent *days* talking to inmates, all day long. As it turns out, when you put someone behind bars, it's exciting and different to talk to someone like me about what you've been up to and what you've been eating.

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:15 pm
I don't think there's a greater understanding that the tracing is about trying to help people that might not realize they've been exposed and to try and stop additional spread.

I think more people understand that than you think. And they don't want tracers contacting their friends and colleagues and informing them a) that the subject has COVID and b) that the subject may have passed COVID on to them.

It's unfortunate but that's where a lot of peoples' heads are at these days.

Rand Paul: Seniors Should Be Served Meals by COVID-Survivors

Speaking during a campaign rally for a congressional candidate in Virginia, Paul also said cloth masks "don't work" and defended President Trump's claim that COVID would disappear.

Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY), Dr. Anthony Fauci’s most dedicated troll in Congress, took his skepticism of COVID-19 experts to the campaign trail on Sunday, telling a Virginia crowd matter-of-factly that cloth masks don’t work and defending President Trump’s repeated statements that the virus will simply go away.

“I’m not telling you not to wear a mask,” Paul said at a rally for Nick Freitas, a Republican candidate for Congress in central Virginia, which was streamed on Freitas’ Facebook page. “The cloth masks… I’m just telling you the truth, they don’t work. Ninety-seven percent of viruses go through a cloth mask.”

============================================================================================================================

I still remember when there was 1 infection. I also recall them saying deaths could reach 80,000.

U.S. CDC reports 224,601 deaths from coronavirus

The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) on Monday reported 8,617,022 cases of the new coronavirus, an increase of 63,195 from its previous count, and said that the number of deaths had risen by 380 to 224,601.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:23 pmI think more people understand that than you think. And they don't want tracers contacting their friends and colleagues and informing them a) that the subject has COVID and b) that the subject may have passed COVID on to them.

It's unfortunate but that's where a lot of peoples' heads are at these days.

Maybe. Thought it's not like I'd contact Daehawk and say I think Lawbeef gave you COVID-19 because he told me you two spent time together. It's much more generalized. And yeah, it's likely that people that are friendly would know how or who exposed them, we're really trying to find people that would have no association with Case 0 or any way to otherwise know they've potentially been exposed.

It does sound authoritarian and creepy but people share more information on social media freely than they're giving us. And that's really the issue. If I want to broadcast my entire weekend on Instagram with photos of all the places I've been? I'm free to do so. But don't you dare call me as a state governmental official and ask me what I did this weekend so you can contact people that were at the same place.

Daehawk wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:25 pm Rand Paul: Seniors Should Be Served Meals by COVID-Survivors

Speaking during a campaign rally for a congressional candidate in Virginia, Paul also said cloth masks "don't work" and defended President Trump's claim that COVID would disappear.

We should pass a law that every time Paul does this that he has to play a clip of Fauci wiping the floor with him at the hearing and then his neighbor gets a free tackle on him.

Daehawk wrote:I still remember when there was 1 infection. I also recall them saying deaths could reach 80,000.

I think I mentioned this before, but I remember talking to a co-worker of mine in March right before we were sent home talking about a potential 200,000 deaths. My stance was that it was an extremely unlikely worst case scenario that our country (even under Trump) would never allow to happen.

What a naive fool I was. I never in a million years expected fighting a pandemic to be impossible due to political divisions.

malchior wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:49 pm

Daehawk wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:25 pm Rand Paul: Seniors Should Be Served Meals by COVID-Survivors

Speaking during a campaign rally for a congressional candidate in Virginia, Paul also said cloth masks "don't work" and defended President Trump's claim that COVID would disappear.

We should pass a law that every time Paul does this that he has to play a clip of Fauci wiping the floor with him at the hearing and then his neighbor gets a free tackle on him.

So many people in DC think they are doctors. Its incredible.

Daehawk wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:07 pm

malchior wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:49 pm

Daehawk wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:25 pm Rand Paul: Seniors Should Be Served Meals by COVID-Survivors

Speaking during a campaign rally for a congressional candidate in Virginia, Paul also said cloth masks "don't work" and defended President Trump's claim that COVID would disappear.

We should pass a law that every time Paul does this that he has to play a clip of Fauci wiping the floor with him at the hearing and then his neighbor gets a free tackle on him.

So many people in DC think they are doctors. Its incredible.

Sadly, Rand is a doctor. Granted he took the fallback career path but still, he was a practicing ophthalmologist.

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:32 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:23 pmI think more people understand that than you think. And they don't want tracers contacting their friends and colleagues and informing them a) that the subject has COVID and b) that the subject may have passed COVID on to them.

It's unfortunate but that's where a lot of peoples' heads are at these days.

Maybe. Thought it's not like I'd contact Daehawk and say I think Lawbeef gave you COVID-19 because he told me you two spent time together. It's much more generalized. And yeah, it's likely that people that are friendly would know how or who exposed them, we're really trying to find people that would have no association with Case 0 or any way to otherwise know they've potentially been exposed.

It does sound authoritarian and creepy but people share more information on social media freely than they're giving us. And that's really the issue. If I want to broadcast my entire weekend on Instagram with photos of all the places I've been? I'm free to do so. But don't you dare call me as a state governmental official and ask me what I did this weekend so you can contact people that were at the same place.

i've been thinking about this. why doesn't Google/Facebook/any generic advertising agency just implement contact tracing on their web beacons/cookie tracking that they have already. it's not like a lot of those people actually care about privacy if the tracking is done by a corporation and they don't tell you about it except buried in a EULA that isn't read anyways (and even more if they give you Free Stuff in exchange - look at what people's actual actions are, not what they say)

hitbyambulance wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:14 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:32 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 3:23 pmI think more people understand that than you think. And they don't want tracers contacting their friends and colleagues and informing them a) that the subject has COVID and b) that the subject may have passed COVID on to them.

It's unfortunate but that's where a lot of peoples' heads are at these days.

Maybe. Thought it's not like I'd contact Daehawk and say I think Lawbeef gave you COVID-19 because he told me you two spent time together. It's much more generalized. And yeah, it's likely that people that are friendly would know how or who exposed them, we're really trying to find people that would have no association with Case 0 or any way to otherwise know they've potentially been exposed.

It does sound authoritarian and creepy but people share more information on social media freely than they're giving us. And that's really the issue. If I want to broadcast my entire weekend on Instagram with photos of all the places I've been? I'm free to do so. But don't you dare call me as a state governmental official and ask me what I did this weekend so you can contact people that were at the same place.

i've been thinking about this. why doesn't Google/Facebook/any generic advertising agency just implement contact tracing on their web beacons/cookie tracking that they have already. it's not like a lot of those people actually care about privacy if the tracking is done by a corporation and they don't tell you about it except buried in a EULA that isn't read anyways (and even more if they give you Free Stuff in exchange - look at what people's actual actions are, not what they say)

I think versions of this app are rolling out nationwide that sent alerts to your phone for potential exposure: https://www.addyourphone.com/

We have one in NJ, but again people refuse to use it because of privacy and the government tracing your every move. I know because they''ll check in on Facebook, Instagram or Twitter and complain about it.

YellowKing wrote: Mon Oct 26, 2020 4:01 pm

Daehawk wrote:I still remember when there was 1 infection. I also recall them saying deaths could reach 80,000.

I think I mentioned this before, but I remember talking to a co-worker of mine in March right before we were sent home talking about a potential 200,000 deaths. My stance was that it was an extremely unlikely worst case scenario that our country (even under Trump) would never allow to happen.

What a naive fool I was. I never in a million years expected fighting a pandemic to be impossible due to political divisions.

you made classic mistakes. underestimating stupidity of the masses, and greed of the masters.

You left out "never go in against a Sicilian, when death is on the line!"

And, the first person I know who has COVID-19 is . . . me.

Started feeling off last Thursday. Not terrible, but just not great. Enough that I felt I needed to cancel a dentist appointment I had scheduled for that day. By the weekend, I was feeling shitty. A headache I just couldn't shake and an annoying cough. Got tested on Sunday (that nasal swab was NOT pleasant), and got the results back yesterday. Positive. Bummer.

Wife and kids are all symptom-free so far, and they went and got tested yesterday, so we'll see what their results are.

I'm currently quarantining from the rest of my family in the basement and still feeling pretty bad. The worst is the persistent headache I just can't seem to shake. Really uncomfortable. Between that and the intermittent fever/chills, it really does feel like a bad case of the flu.

Best of luck, Kurth. Hopefully you kick its ass quickly like you do to your running workouts.

I hope you don't suffer worse than you've had so far, and have a speedy recovery.

Do you know how you got it?

Hope that you have a quick recovery, Kurth.

Good luck, man.

Daehawk wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:01 pm Do you know how you got it?

The positive test is a pretty good hint.

Kurth wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 2:46 pm And, the first person I know who has COVID-19 is . . . me.

Ugh.....I hope you feel better soon, man. This thing is no joke.

Oh man, that sucks. Take care and recover quickly.

NickAragua wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:08 pm Good luck, man.

Daehawk wrote: Tue Oct 27, 2020 3:01 pm Do you know how you got it?

The positive test is a pretty good hint.

How does that explain how he got infected?

Jesus. Crazy day. Get well, Kurth. As I'm sure you know, if your symptoms get worse notify emergency services immediately; don't delay.

Good luck Kurth. Get well soon.