Octopus Overlords

It was smart for him to choose a white van, that way it blends in and is completely inconspicuous.

Holman wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:25 am Here's the van:

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1055841794397798400

Yeah, I think maybe I suspect that guy too.

Is there any candy in that van, though?

So, yes this bomb scare is terrorism, but no one thinks theses are bombs anymore. The only point to calling them bombs now is to drum up the "sensation factor". I am not the rating business - I don't get paid to drum up ratings.

I have to conclude the only point(s) to sending non-bombs that look like bombs would be:
1. To sew fear among the targets (unlikely to work directly as these people are all known to have their mail screened). Terrible motivation that only a deranged person would be in charge of - should be caught in days if they are that crazy/dumb.

2. To focus attention on the bomber. To me, it seems like this kind of bomber would have sent a note (manifesto?) to someone to get more attention.

3. To divert attention away from something else by sopping up the media bandwidth. In the way that the Las Vegas shooter stopped the Equifax coverage cold for the few days before the Equifax executives had to testify to congress about Admin/Admin. This is a green field ripe with speculation and I don't care to run across it just now.

4. To divide our republic even more along party lines. Who would want to drive the Democrats farther away from the Republicans and make it less likely that we have a functioning government? I don't even have time to list the actors that I know about here.

5. To get people used to non-bombs that look like bombs for some long-term plot - seems nutty even to me.

6. Deep state using a new FBI investigation to lock-down documents that congress has subpoenaed from the FBI because they now have to look at "all of those people" since they might be part of a FRESH investigation - but if Rod Rosenstein were capable of this kind of planning I think he would have avoided his pending legal troubles with congress. If it is this kind of deal - no one will ever be caught since the point would be to have open investigation that has enough overlap with "Trump's people" to lock up the Steele dossier and FISA warrant information forever. (in politics forever can be defined as a few years)

7. Probably lots of stuff I am not devious enough to even think of.


Because the FeuxBomber might be an attention monger, I am resistant to upping the hype - hence my insistence that I call these objects Notbombs. Because it might be a bad actor trying to drive Americans apart, I am going to try to be resistant partisan hype in the way that I tried to be be resistant after the softball practice shooting. Democrats did not derange that man, they did send him on a mission to harm people. Blaming Democrats for that would have done America more harm than good, in my opinion.

So my answer to "what do we do about it" is to dial back the hate and hype. Love and calmness are not my special skills but I will try to make a go of it (at Grover Cleveland).

El Guapo wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:34 am

Holman wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:25 am Here's the van:

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1055841794397798400

Yeah, I think maybe I suspect that guy too.

Is there any candy in that van, though?

Probably not. You attract a loose Trump in the wild with KFC buckets.

Yojimbo wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:38 am So, yes this bomb scare is terrorism, but no one thinks theses are bombs anymore.

Citation required. Law enforcement has said they are operational bombs.

Yojimbo wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:38 am So, yes this bomb scare is terrorism, but no one thinks theses are bombs anymore. The only point to calling them bombs now is to drum up the "sensation factor". I am not the rating business - I don't get paid to drum up ratings.

Cite?

Here's the latest that I could find as of 30 minutes ago. If you don't like CNN, feel free to provide your source of choice.

Link

CNN wrote:Were the pipe bombs designed to go off?
Authorities are wondering why none of the bombs went off, a law enforcement source told CNN's Evan Perez. In a statement, the FBI called them "potentially destructive devices."
The presence of what was believed to be pyrotechnic powder caused investigators to believe they could detonate, but it appeared the packages were handled and moved through the postal system without an explosion.
Based on an X-ray image of one of the devices, there appeared to be hazardous materials present, Anthony May, a retired Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives investigator, told CNN's Brooke Baldwin. But it also appeared to be missing a crucial component for a functioning explosive device.
"What I'm not seeing is enough means to initiate this device, whether by design, whether by accident. I'm not seeing that," he said. "If I'm going by design, (if) it was designed that way, then the individual's motivation was simply to spread fear, instill fear."

It's not that I think they're bombs, it's that you've been suggesting they aren't bombs since day one, and now you're sure they aren't bombs, everyone says so, even though no one is saying so.

Again, it's not that you're wrong or right, it's that you have no idea that you have no idea. That's the frustrating part. You speak with authority when you have none. That's a very drumpfian quality.

https://twitter.com/aravosis/status/1055847151530586119

Jesus. Hillary in crosshairs, and lots of other madness. I wouldn't let my kids anywhere near the person in this van.

Captain Caveman wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:52 am Jesus. Hillary in crosshairs, and lots of other madness. I wouldn't let my kids anywhere near the person in this van.

I know, right? Normally my kids are all over strangers' white vans, but this guy ruined it for everyone.

Separately, that is not the van of a sane person. The content of the stickers don't enter into it. If this guy isn't a diagnosed or soon to be diagnosed schizophrenic, I'll buy you a coke. You'll have to visit me in Ottawa to collect though.

See what I did there, Yoj? I made a guess. Everyone understands that it's a guess. I don't know for a fact that this guy is a schizophrenic, and I don't pretend like everyone agrees that he's a schizophrenic. It's not hard.

Defiant wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:47 am

Yojimbo wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:38 am So, yes this bomb scare is terrorism, but no one thinks theses are bombs anymore.

Citation required. Law enforcement has said they are operational bombs.

Trump tweeted this just before the arrest news broke.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 5337172993

Republicans are doing so well in early voting, and at the polls, and now this “Bomb” stuff happens and the momentum greatly slows - news not talking politics. Very unfortunate, what is going on. Republicans, go out and vote!

[Colbert Trump Voice]
Many people are saying these "bombs" are just stuff happening!
[/CTV]

Plus there's a nice implication that Republican polling is the real victim here.

I see that tweet as another attempt to establish a reason for any republican losses during the midterms that isn't Donald Trump. His entire life is about finding scapegoats for any failures he endures.

This guy being a nutter with Trump crap posted all over his van was the best case scenario I think. I'm sure there will now be a spin that it's just too obvious and is another false flag. Look they doctored up a van so that they could blame this all on the poor dear leader. F this timeline.

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:50 am

Yojimbo wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:38 am So, yes this bomb scare is terrorism, but no one thinks theses are bombs anymore. The only point to calling them bombs now is to drum up the "sensation factor". I am not the rating business - I don't get paid to drum up ratings.

Cite?

Here's the latest that I could find as of 30 minutes ago. If you don't like CNN, feel free to provide your source of choice.

Link

CNN wrote:Were the pipe bombs designed to go off?
Authorities are wondering why none of the bombs went off, a law enforcement source told CNN's Evan Perez. In a statement, the FBI called them "potentially destructive devices."
The presence of what was believed to be pyrotechnic powder caused investigators to believe they could detonate, but it appeared the packages were handled and moved through the postal system without an explosion.
Based on an X-ray image of one of the devices, there appeared to be hazardous materials present, Anthony May, a retired Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives investigator, told CNN's Brooke Baldwin. But it also appeared to be missing a crucial component for a functioning explosive device.
"What I'm not seeing is enough means to initiate this device, whether by design, whether by accident. I'm not seeing that," he said. "If I'm going by design, (if) it was designed that way, then the individual's motivation was simply to spread fear, instill fear."

It's not that I think they're bombs, it's that you've been suggesting they aren't bombs since day one, and now you're sure they aren't bombs, everyone says so, even though no one is saying so.

Again, it's not that you're wrong or right, it's that you have no idea that you have no idea. That's the frustrating part. You speak with authority when you have none. That's a very drumpfian quality.

I didn't mean to frustrate you. I speak with authority that they didn't go off - exploding is kind of key to the bomb deal to me. The FBI called them "potentially destructive devices" in its press release.

If you want to keep calling them bombs - do so. I think it could add to hype - but that is not a crime at all. This situation may need even more excitement and drama in your eyes.

I may well be wrong - I am often wrong. But I hope that I am right - I don't want them to have been bombs and that is likely influencing my judgement at some level. I travel by air weekly by and I have been stopped over the years for:
wooden shoe trees, saving cream, bundles of wires (power cords), talcum powder, and spare batteries.

All of these things appeared to have been restrictive materials on an X-ray of my bag. So I'm not really that sensitive to things that "appear" to be bombs. Plus, an LEO will get a lot more inter-agency and judicial cooperation (sad) when investigating some destructive devices that they will from investigating some stage props. So the FBI kind of has a motivation "take it to the edge of the truth or just over". So if they had been bombs, it is perfectly logical (to my mind) that they would have called them explosive devices.

Full disclosure - I have been reading the new Sherlock Holmes series by Kareem Abdul Jabbar and Anna Waterhouse so I may be more suspicious minded than normal.

So the MAGABomber has been identified as a well-known regular and even kind of a "fan celebrity" at Trump rallies. His Facebook page shows (along with the usual racism and Islamophobia) Trump support all the way back into the 2016 campaign.

It's going to be hard to call this one a False Flag. When do we first hear that it's a frame-up?

Infowars is already on it. A they say he mostly follows dems on Twitter. B. He's obviously mentally ill. Next it will be the Dems made the van. I already saw comments on Fox News about implying someone doctored up his van.

I'm sure the next copycat will send "bomb-like objects" instead of functional bombs next time.

Hillary actually sold him the van, that's where she had her email servers.

Yojimbo wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:03 pm I didn't mean to frustrate you. I speak with authority that they didn't go off - exploding is kind of key to the bomb deal to me. The FBI called them "potentially destructive devices" in its press release.

If you want to keep calling them bombs - do so. I think it could add to hype - but that is not a crime at all. This situation may need even more excitement and drama in your eyes.

In your world, a gun is not actually a gun unless it's fired?

A gun is a gun. But a gun without a firing pin is part of a gun. A gun with a barrel welded closed is a prop. That is what is in my mind.

If someone puts a gun without a firing pin to your head without informing you it doesn't have a firing pin, does that mean the act of doing so is therefore legal?

Yojimbo wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:03 pm I didn't mean to frustrate you. I speak with authority that they didn't go off - exploding is kind of key to the bomb deal to me. The FBI called them "potentially destructive devices" in its press release.

If you want to keep calling them bombs - do so. I think it could add to hype - but that is not a crime at all. This situation may need even more excitement and drama in your eyes.

It's worth noting that "bombs" isn't a technical term the FBI is likely to use. Even the military doesn't call roadside bombs "bombs." They are IEDs.

All we really know right now is that the devices included all the ingredients you would expect in a bomb, including explosive powder and shrapnel.

That they didn't go off *could* mean that they were props intended only to scare people. In that case, though, a bomb-looking pipe assembly filled with sand instead of explosive would have had the same effect. It might also dodge a full charge of attempted murder or domestic terrorism if you got caught. This seems like something you would care about if you were pulling a stunt rather than really trying to start the MAGA war.

It may be that they didn't go off because the maker was inept. In that case, these are still attempted bombings. Failed attacks are still attacks. It may also be that the news put the right people on enough of an alert that most of the bombs were treated as dangerous while there was still time to prevent detonation. We don't know how the discovery or the handling went down.

But I certainly won't be surprised to learn that these devices were intended to kill the people the bomber has spent the past couple of years saying he wants killed.

Um, law enforcement said that they were crude but functional.

To me, that means they weren't just "bomb-looking" props.

Hoo, boy. Here is the suspect's Twitter account. This is probably also his.

It's 100% right-wing memes and Breitbart-style media. There's no Timecube or lizard people or conspiracies that don't involve Soros/Clinton/Obama.

Be warned, though, if you glance at his "replies" as well as his tweets: he appears fond of sending images of corpses to liberals he hates.

He also seems to enjoy retweeting pictures of crime scenes and (because Florida?) reports and pictures of people eaten by alligators.

[Edited: I edited earlier to indicate doubts, but the consensus seems to be developing that these sites are his.]

Yup. I made it to the first body parts photo before I dropped out. No thanks. I'm good with locking the guy up for life simply for that twitter feed alone if that turns out to be his.

Defiant wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:49 pm Um, law enforcement said that they were crude but functional.

Just like Donald Trump.

malchior wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:10 pm

Defiant wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:49 pm Um, law enforcement said that they were crude but functional.

Just like Donald Trump.

No, Trump is just crude.

El Guapo wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:34 am

Holman wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 11:25 am Here's the van:

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1055841794397798400

Yeah, I think maybe I suspect that guy too.

Is there any candy in that van, though?

I just saw the term "Vanifesto" on another site.

That's just...glorious.

The suspect has a long criminal record so obviously all this is due to Democrats and their liberal attitudes towards real law enforcement.

$iljanus wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:37 pm The suspect has a long criminal record so obviously all this is due to Democrats and their liberal attitudes towards real law enforcement.

If he's from the right he's a lone nut. If he's from the left he's democrat.

Lone nuts are something we have to deal with and it sucks. Groups of lone nuts literally being called to arms by the president who then plays coy and then calls to arms again and then plays coy and... That's the freaking problem.

So I gather that this guy is into MMA, Trump, and identifies as a Seminole (tribe, not collegiate team).


Also, the targets on the side of the van reminded me of this:

In the old days, "lone nut" generally meant someone cut off from society and reality, someone probably making their own reality in their head or from weird inappropriate sources.

This guy was getting a 24/7 firehose feed of propaganda straight from the sources the POTUS says to trust most. He may have acted alone, but he was acting on the hate urged and stoked by a massive industry that basically controls half of our political discourse.

WaPo

State records show he had a criminal record dating back decades, including a past arrest for making a bomb threat.

These run-ins with law enforcement date back at least to an arrest for larceny when Sayoc was 29 years old, according to state records. Other charges of larceny, grand theft and fraud soon followed across the southern part of the state. In 2002, the Miami police arrested him for a bomb threat, a felony. Sayoc pleaded guilty without trial and was sentenced to probation, the records show.

According to the police report, Sayoc called Florida Power and Light, a power company, in August 2002 and threatened to blow them up.

“It would be worse than September 11th,” Sayoc said, according to the police report, which also said Sayoc threatened the company’s representative with physical harm if his electricity was turned off.

https://twitter.com/RobertMaguire_/stat ... 0608284673

WTF.

https://twitter.com/AshaRangappa_/statu ... 9959050240
link

Defiant wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:49 pm Um, law enforcement said that they were crude but functional.

To me, that means they weren't just "bomb-looking" props.

It doesn't matter to some people. They didn't explode. Bombs explode. Therefore they are not bombs. QED.

No one is sure, or if they are, they aren't telling.

No one knows for sure except Yoj, I mean.

You're absolutely right that there were police reports calling them functional explosive devices. They seem to have pulled back from that, and are using more cautious terminology now.

Holman wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:54 pm It's 100% right-wing memes and Breitbart-style media. There's no Timecube or lizard people or conspiracies that don't involve Soros/Clinton/Obama.

I'll just point out that you don't need lizard people to be a paranoid schizophrenic. They are quite capable of having delusions regarding actual people. My guestimate and coke offer still stands. You may have root beer if you prefer.

Skinypupy wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 2:36 pm I just saw the term "Vanifesto" on another site.

That's just...glorious.

There are flashes of brilliance in the minds of everyone.

Whether this was a one time thing for a random internetizen or the work of a talented professional, it is indeed glorious.

Captain Caveman wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:21 pm https://twitter.com/RobertMaguire_/stat ... 0608284673

WTF.

Hopefully Jeff Flake or Ben Sasse are paying attention. What is needed now are more sage words about incivility on both sides.

GreenGoo wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:23 pm
It doesn't matter to some people. They didn't explode. Bombs explode. Therefore they are not bombs. QED.

Seems to me if the bombs had exploded, they would not be bombs, because they would have ceased to be.

Maybe they're quantum bombs. If you know they're bombs, they're no longer bombs.

malchior wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:32 pm

Captain Caveman wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:21 pm https://twitter.com/RobertMaguire_/stat ... 0608284673

WTF.

Hopefully Jeff Flake or Ben Sasse are paying attention. What is needed now are more sage words about incivility on both sides.

And a reining in of the lame, um, mainstream media which whips up these lone wolves. Just take a look at all the stuff on the side of his van. Obviously planted by Democratic leaning news outlets!

Holman wrote: Fri Oct 26, 2018 3:22 pm <snip twitter link>

Even I don't believe that's true. I can't imagine it being true. He's a criminal and a con-artist and a buffoon, but he's not inherently villainous. Probably.