Octopus Overlords

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 9:11 pm Embedded YT videos default to low quality, but you can increase the resolution of the video here just like on YT itself.

That wasn't my experience, but I've got a few extensions to my youtube experience so those may interfere with the more typical viewing experience. Thanks for letting me know.

The Meal wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 9:08 pm (Also, encourage folks to watch these things using the YouTube link rather than from the embedded viewer on OO, as embedding has too much loss of fidelity to make links useful.)

Hmm, I thought that was a given, that the embedded video was like a preview. I always use the YouTube link to actually watch a video.

So I checked out the wiki Tutorial:Main bus. I think I understand the concept of a main bus but I'm confused about one aspect of it. In the illustrations I've seen, the bus always seems to be non-looped, I.E. once a resource reaches the end of the bus it just sits there for whatever sub-factory is pulling from there but nothing "upstream" can access those resources. So is this the way it is? I'm assuming if main buses are non-looping the idea would be to produce enough resources that at least one lane of each of the resource type would be full so no far upstream sub-factory is starved of resources.

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 10:50 am So I checked out the wiki Tutorial:Main bus. I think I understand the concept of a main bus but I'm confused about one aspect of it. In the illustrations I've seen, the bus always seems to be non-looped, I.E. once a resource reaches the end of the bus it just sits there for whatever sub-factory is pulling from there but nothing "upstream" can access those resources. So is this the way it is? I'm assuming if main buses are non-looping the idea would be to produce enough resources that at least one lane of each of the resource type would be full so no far upstream sub-factory is starved of resources.

Yep. The idea is to keep the bus full. Feeding or consolidating as it depletes. When you see inputs not losing full capacity you increase feed. Because of this I build a very wide highway with a gap of 3 spaces, IIRC correctly between every 4th line so you can run underground belts to output or install another feed.

I deleted all my old games, so I don't remember "my" formula. But rediscovering will be part of the enjoyment.

The Meal wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 9:14 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sun Nov 03, 2024 6:10 pm Thanks for the tips. Are there any go-to references/sites/guides/content producers to be aware of?

I think I'd start with your own discovery first.

Definitely.

That's what I do. I don't learn the game before I play the game (and with a game like this, I assume that my first go will just be an extended tutorial, fully expecting to restart.) With complex games I just like to find out which sources are reliable in advance. That way when I find some mechanic that I don't understand, or some aspect of my game that I want to improve, I know where to look.

I've decided to start a new playthrough where I intend to be much more organized, using the bus system and using logic circuits as much as possible so I can experience them. To do this I don't want to be running out of resources or dealing with enemies so soon, so I have changed the default settings as shown.

I've cranked resources to eleven so I don't have to roam hill and dale to find the next pocket of stuff. Nothing says I have to use the nearest resources all the time but I did a lot of playing around with rails on the last playthrough and I'm good with not using them so soon.


I didn't totally nerf enemies, but they won't be expanding and their starting bases have been really reduced.

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 10:50 am So is this the way it is?

Yes.

There will be some items on the end of the line that are sorta 'waste' - but it's minimal.

And, yes - that will create an understanding that you are low on "Green Circuits" (sample) - and that this is why you are low on "Red Circuits" - etc.
No sense in making Green Circuits on site, where they are needed.

That being said - there are a few items that make absolute sense to make 'on site' - like Iron Rods or Copper Cables, for instance. A 'proper' Bus will not have those two items on it, ever.

But having a Bus with 4 or 8 Belts entirely dedicated to just Iron Plates is absolutely a thing.

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 12:06 pm I've cranked resources to eleven so I don't have to roam hill and dale to find the next pocket of stuff. Nothing says I have to use the nearest resources all the time but I did a lot of playing around with rails on the last playthrough and I'm good

Just my worthless opinion here, but, I think you swung the pendulum a bit too far.

Enjoy your walk in the park though.

The only way to know where the line is, is to cross it.

Unagi wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 12:23 pm But having a Bus with 4 or 8 Belts entirely dedicated to just Iron Plates is absolutely a thing.

And then funneling in as they deplete and if you play long enough to just start seeing how much final product you can build, building another feeder line to expand further down the line.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 12:57 pm

Unagi wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 12:23 pm But having a Bus with 4 or 8 Belts entirely dedicated to just Iron Plates is absolutely a thing.

And then funneling in as they deplete and if you play long enough to just start seeing how much final product you can build, building another feeder line to expand further down the line.

And to this point - planning for the Bus* allows for you to actually expand and support that growth.



* I have found that it's hard to plan well for the future - in that it makes no sense to take up the space for 8 Lanes of Iron in the beginning, so later on - I'm almost always sorta "re-Factoring" the place. I do start with minimal idea of:
4 lanes of Iron Plate, 3 Copper, 2 Green, 1 Red, 1 Blue - and then a partridge in a pear tree (others in single lanes, like Steel, Plastic, Batteries, etc).


I'm just now starting to get trains and outposts into my game, but I am pretty sure I will end up re-doing them once I actually get a system with a dozen trains running - even though I'm making it all with that in mind right now. My 'war plan' will not survive contact with the enemy. It will be re-drawn.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 12:37 pm The only way to know where the line is, is to cross it.

So true.

I certainly speak with experience.
For me, if I have an infinite supply of the resource - it makes the whole thing seem a little weird/silly. And (But - yes - one needs to try it to experience it, very true) the maxing size, freq, & richness - just make the deposits insane.
I've played around with those maps only briefly before feeling I could easily do with less.

Unagi wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 12:25 pm

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 12:06 pm I've cranked resources to eleven so I don't have to roam hill and dale to find the next pocket of stuff. Nothing says I have to use the nearest resources all the time but I did a lot of playing around with rails on the last playthrough and I'm good

Just my worthless opinion here, but, I think you swung the pendulum a bit too far.

Enjoy your walk in the park though.

For this playthrough I wanted to focus on efficiency and reaching the planets, exploring that part of the game. I already did the scrambling for resources thing on my last playthrough.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 12:37 pm The only way to know where the line is, is to cross it.

My newest playthrough, I'm really focusing on laying out the base with a main bus.

I've only been to one other planet. I started over when I saw a slew of new achievements and that my old ones had been wiped.

In my current run I'm accomplishing or accomplished:

• No Logisitics Requestors/Buffers until Space Age science researched
• "Keeping your hands clean" by not destroying a single spawner until you can do it with Artillery (a late-game item). This was a rough one to work with. I've had to wall in every single spawner that was inside the area I wanted to build with. For the record, it takes a wall 8 tiles deep to suppress spawning. About 456 wall tiles. I've sealed over a hundred spawners.
• No Logistics or Materials (Yellow/Purple) science until a Space Age science from another planet is done.
• I did achieve the "Launch a rocket into space in 15 hours" with about 4 hours to spare.
• No Solar until you're in Space
• No Lasers until you're in Space

I did not get the "There is no spoon" or the 90-minute Train one, nor do I intend to beat the game in 24 or 40 hours. It's been a rough run, but it's kind of fun to have specific handicaps to overcome.

Last night I did a thing that I've never done before. I set up a basic belt interrupt so products coming from one line got priority over the constant stream from another belt. Fulgora is a recycling planet. That means you end up looping a lot of products right back into the recyclers. I was getting constantly jammed up until I fixed that so the "old" stuff would take priority and get flushed through while fresh scrap waited.

I also refined so much U238 that I ran out of U235. I suppose my Kovarex refinery was a success. It runs on the principle of "only load 40" on the Inserter and only "when the Centrifuge isn't working on something" while other chests and Inserters were regulating the amount of total product on the belt, so it never got flooded with U235 and choked out. One of the more complex "simple" circuits I've put together without using Combinators or Deciders, though I expect it would have been easier if I knew how to use them.

Made to purple science when I finally had vision for how I want my semi stable initial build to go... with the bus line running right through the middle of my start. Tear down to bones is immanent. Only I don't have room for all that inventory. Believe it or not, I find that relaxing and I just lost nearly an hour before taking a break. I remember when I used to lose six hours or more playing games. Now if I don't get up after an hour my arm will complain in to the next day.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Nov 05, 2024 1:29 pm Tear down to bones is immanent.

Honestly, my favorite part of the game. I love getting to Logistics and Construction bots. Set up a section with like 40 Storage Chests and tell them to take your base apart in one stroke. The whole thing gets packed up into component pieces. It's beautiful.

Most of my Factories go through multiple rebuilds as I refine the concept of what I want to do with them. I've gotten tired of straight hub/bus lines and want to get more exotic.

Boy do I need this game this morning. For as long as I can tolerate sitting... in... a... sitting... My arm is going to hate me by the end of the day. I went ahead and reset my game and am really taking my leisure this time.

Good object lesson on what you need to do if you didn't allow enough room for your main bus to continue in a straight line

Not going to tell you how to play but gears and copper wires on a bus would be an object in frustration for me.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Nov 06, 2024 7:39 pm Not going to tell you how to play but gears and copper wires on a bus would be an object in frustration for me.

I promise not to allow myself to be frustrated

Busses turn slowly!

I actually do put gears on my bus, but I find generating wires in place is fine. No wrong ways to play, though. A lot of this stuff is “chef’s choice”, and discovery is a big part of what makes the game fun. I feel a little bit badly that I moved you in the bus direction… but it does open up a lot of doors for making your subsystems a lot more organized, and give the game an easier sense to determining purpose.

The Meal wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 9:05 am I feel a little bit badly that I moved you in the bus direction… but it does open up a lot of doors for making your subsystems a lot more organized, and give the game an easier sense to determining purpose.

Don't feel bad, I needed to be more organized on this playthrough. On the last one I had so many workarounds and jury-rigged subsystems that to find things was a pain. This time I'm more confident of getting to space and staying there.

I am finding that steel plate gets used faster than I can produce it for the bus. I fell back into my jury-rig mode and shoved some production lines here and there, but now I realize I just need to make the steel offsite and bring it in by train.

Unagi wrote: ↑Mon Nov 04, 2024 12:25 pm Enjoy your walk in the park though.

I am enjoying being able to concentrate on production issues rather than building endless walls and laser turrets. I'm still researching them for "later" but for now I'm happy to be able to go cross-country without beasties chasing me

I've got a production area where I'm making blue belts, underground tunnels and splitters. However, the final factories for each need lubricant and I'm driving myself nuts trying to get a consistent flow of lubricant. It's the advanced oil processing that boggles me, trying to use the three products (heavy oil, light oil and petroleum gas) of a refinery in a balanced way so the refinery won't keep stopping and restarting. I'm using the petro gas to make plastic and using the light oil to make solid fuel. I then use the heavy oil to make lubricant. Any suggestions on how to keep the refinery running constantly?

Check with P Diddy. He won't be needing his extra.

I have a question about robots and chests. I unlocked Logistic Robotics which gives me the Passive Provider Chest and the Storage Chest. I'm not really sure what I can use those for, can anyone suggest some uses? I know how to use the full up five chest types, but I'm not sure what I can do with just those two.

Got stuff you picked up, like chopping down trees and no place for the wood or those old power lines you are cleaning up? Mark them as unwanted and your robots will fly to them storage. Want to always have 5 stacks of walls for building in your tool belt? Have them dumping into a provider chest and you robots will fly them to you. Your robobts can also use this as a transportation method via bot when belts or trains just don't make sense or wont' quite fit right.

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 7:37 pm I've got a production area where I'm making blue belts, underground tunnels and splitters. However, the final factories for each need lubricant and I'm driving myself nuts trying to get a consistent flow of lubricant. It's the advanced oil processing that boggles me, trying to use the three products (heavy oil, light oil and petroleum gas) of a refinery in a balanced way so the refinery won't keep stopping and restarting. I'm using the petro gas to make plastic and using the light oil to make solid fuel. I then use the heavy oil to make lubricant. Any suggestions on how to keep the refinery running constantly?

Yeah, I made a post about how to make it all work perfectly up above.

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 11:11 pm I have a question about robots and chests. I unlocked Logistic Robotics which gives me the Passive Provider Chest and the Storage Chest. I'm not really sure what I can use those for, can anyone suggest some uses? I know how to use the full up five chest types, but I'm not sure what I can do with just those two.

Play off away from your network with just a roboport and yourself and some ingredients and those two chests - and you should be able to set up a few experiments where you will figure it out. I could spend 10 minutes talking about it, but that wouldn't help.

Storage - the robots will bring to and take from.
Passive - they will only take from - never fill it.

Storage can be given a single filter - and it will then only be used for that item.


You spoiled yourself on Buffers and Active Providers - so you never used these.

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 10:42 am

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 07, 2024 7:37 pm I've got a production area where I'm making blue belts, underground tunnels and splitters. However, the final factories for each need lubricant and I'm driving myself nuts trying to get a consistent flow of lubricant. It's the advanced oil processing that boggles me, trying to use the three products (heavy oil, light oil and petroleum gas) of a refinery in a balanced way so the refinery won't keep stopping and restarting. I'm using the petro gas to make plastic and using the light oil to make solid fuel. I then use the heavy oil to make lubricant. Any suggestions on how to keep the refinery running constantly?

Yeah, I made a post about how to make it all work perfectly up above.

Yeah, I have that printed out beside me but I was trying to figure out what was a good way to use up the heavy oil and the petroleum gas so I could keep the crude oil refineries running at full blast. Turns out the best solution at this time is to make solid fuel from both heavy oil and petroleum gas, as you mentioned in your post, rather than trying to deal with other products. I have a bazillion boilers burning fuel right now so I can burn all that solid fuel; saves on using up my coal too. I figure later on when I need other products I can tap off the needed resources from the refineries.

I wonder if there is an achievement for going into space without ever mining uranium?

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 12:12 pm
I wonder if there is an achievement for going into space without ever mining uranium?

I nearly just did that - as I didn't want to ramp up my rocket-fuel production until Nuclear power, but I could have launched early.


I'm just now creating my, first-ever, Space Platform.

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 12:12 pm but I was trying to figure out what was a good way to use up the heavy oil and the petroleum gas so I could keep the crude oil refineries running at full blast.

But why. Just to have them running - or is there a product (Acid? Plastic? Rocket Fuel?) that you are running out of - and the system is stalled?

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 12:17 pm

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 12:12 pm but I was trying to figure out what was a good way to use up the heavy oil and the petroleum gas so I could keep the crude oil refineries running at full blast.

But why. Just to have them running - or is there a product (Acid? Plastic? Rocket Fuel?) that you are running out of - and the system is stalled?

I'm trying to make enough lubricant to support my blue belt, tunnel and splitter production. Turns out that production needs a lot of lubricant

I'm making plastic using a refinery that is producing petroleum gas only. It's making things simpler on that end since I have a main belt line for plastic.

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 12:21 pm

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 12:17 pm

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 12:12 pm but I was trying to figure out what was a good way to use up the heavy oil and the petroleum gas so I could keep the crude oil refineries running at full blast.

But why. Just to have them running - or is there a product (Acid? Plastic? Rocket Fuel?) that you are running out of - and the system is stalled?

I'm trying to make enough lubricant to support my blue belt, tunnel and splitter production. Turns out that production needs a lot of lubricant

I'm making plastic using a refinery that is producing petroleum gas only. It's making things simpler on that end since I have a main belt line for plastic.

I assume all your advanced oil production is all in one system.
Not: one place gets oil and tries to turn that into Plastic, while some other place gets oil and tries to turn that into Lubricant.

Is that a correction assumption?


When you say "I make plastic using a refinery that is producing Petro only..." that sounds like maybe where things are not going to make use of the Network the way I described.

One place uses simple conversion of crude to petro gas, this is for plastic:



And then three refineries to make LO, HO, PG for other stuff



It might not be the most efficient method, but I'm not at that point right now, which is why you don't see pumps and green wires yet.

I've just contaminated a bunch of pipes with the wrong fluid . Other than deleting and adding all the pipes again, is there some simple and fast way to purge the pipes? I know there is in Satisfactory, but I don't remember there being one in Factorio.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 7:09 am Got stuff you picked up, like chopping down trees and no place for the wood or those old power lines you are cleaning up? Mark them as unwanted and your robots will fly to them storage. Want to always have 5 stacks of walls for building in your tool belt? Have them dumping into a provider chest and you robots will fly them to you. Your robobts can also use this as a transportation method via bot when belts or trains just don't make sense or wont' quite fit right.

Thanks, I didn't understand how not having an active provider would work for me. I've done some experiments and now I see how I can get some benefit, although up till now I just created a wooden chest and dumped my excess into it

jztemple2 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 2:46 pm One place uses simple conversion of crude to petro gas, this is for plastic:



And then three refineries to make LO, HO, PG for other stuff



It might not be the most efficient method, but I'm not at that point right now, which is why you don't see pumps and green wires yet.

Any reason you aren't just adding storage tanks to catch the stuff you aren't using? Given you acknowledge you aren't on the most efficient path just yet, that should let things run for quite a while until you get cracking up and running.

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Nov 08, 2024 3:30 pm Any reason you aren't just adding storage tanks to catch the stuff you aren't using? Given you acknowledge you aren't on the most efficient path just yet, that should let things run for quite a while until you get cracking up and running.

Good catch! I did have storage tanks, but when I contaminated my pipes and tanks I forgot to add back in the tanks.