Justice League Loses... VILLAINS WIN

[El Guapo]

The only caveat is if someone comes forward later with an unprovable role, they have to be tested.

We could prevent this by giving people time and saying that if you come forward with an unprovable role after day 3, you're going to be lynched.

[El Guapo]

I'm looking forward to hearing what Moliere's PM was after the game too.

Stessier has said that Moliere used his ring twice. Which, even if stessier is spoofing, must be the case, because Moliere is a confirmed villain so there is 0% reason for Isgrimnur to be vision-quest lying about his role. SO, since Moliere was Sinestro his ring power is the only thing that he could be PM'ing about.

Which also means that Moliere could have negated you or Isgrimnur but did not, which on the latter side suggests that the villains did not know who Isgrimnur was before they killed him.

[Scoop20906]

I'm looking forward to hearing what Moliere's PM was after the game too.

Stessier has said that Moliere used his ring twice. Which, even if stessier is spoofing, must be the case, because Moliere is a confirmed villain so there is 0% reason for Isgrimnur to be vision-quest lying about his role. SO, since Moliere was Sinestro his ring power is the only thing that he could be PM'ing about.

Which also means that Moliere could have negated you or Isgrimnur but did not, which on the latter side suggests that the villains did not know who Isgrimnur was before they killed him.

Wait, did he state that or did he wonder that?

[El Guapo]

Here, a couple pages back, after Moliere posted about PMs:

Nah, I didn't decide to commit suicide - would have made it too easy for you guys.

Huh - he used both his charges. Does anyone feel different?

[Scoop20906]

Here, a couple pages back, after Moliere posted about PMs:

Nah, I didn't decide to commit suicide - would have made it too easy for you guys.

Huh - he used both his charges. Does anyone feel different?

Thanks for catching that.

All I could find was this:

Ok, so I got nothing on why Moliere didn't use his ring except that he knows I would know if he did it. Not much of a peg to hang your hat on though.

[Scoop20906]

Stessier confirmed that Moliere used both of his charges yesterday on the same day.

[El Guapo]

Interesting that I wasn't given a chance at final words. I will be curious to see what Chaos does when he checks his PM's.

I am interested in this, because it suggests that Moliere expected something to happen when Chaos checked his PMs. Would strongly suggest that Moliere ringed stessier, yes? Which suggests that stessier did not ring him back. Which also suggests that Moliere either believed that stessier is in fact Green Lantern (hence the expected explosion), or that he wanted to convey that impression in order to give a villain stessier cover

[El Guapo]

Here, a couple pages back, after Moliere posted about PMs:

Nah, I didn't decide to commit suicide - would have made it too easy for you guys.

Huh - he used both his charges. Does anyone feel different?

Thanks for catching that.

All I could find was this:

Ok, so I got nothing on why Moliere didn't use his ring except that he knows I would know if he did it. Not much of a peg to hang your hat on though.

I believe the second post you quoted was before the first (that I quoted), in case that's not clear.

[Scoop20906]

Interesting that I wasn't given a chance at final words. I will be curious to see what Chaos does when he checks his PM's.

I am interested in this, because it suggests that Moliere expected something to happen when Chaos checked his PMs. Would strongly suggest that Moliere ringed stessier, yes? Which suggests that stessier did not ring him back. Which also suggests that Moliere either believed that stessier is in fact Green Lantern (hence the expected explosion), or that he wanted to convey that impression in order to give a villain stessier cover

Right, why would Moliere post anything at all if not to help create some doubt for his last team mate.

[El Guapo]

Stessier confirmed that Moliere used both of his charges yesterday on the same day.

Are you talking about the post that I quoted?

[Scoop20906]

Ok, Im still more comfortable with scorched earth methods on this.

I'd like to see everyone check in and claim special or not. We can give it a day since responses will be lacking I am sure.

Then, if not bites we Shazam Stessier.

Thoughts?

[El Guapo]

Interesting that I wasn't given a chance at final words. I will be curious to see what Chaos does when he checks his PM's.

I am interested in this, because it suggests that Moliere expected something to happen when Chaos checked his PMs. Would strongly suggest that Moliere ringed stessier, yes? Which suggests that stessier did not ring him back. Which also suggests that Moliere either believed that stessier is in fact Green Lantern (hence the expected explosion), or that he wanted to convey that impression in order to give a villain stessier cover

Right, why would Moliere post anything at all if not to help create some doubt for his last team mate.

He could have been genuinely wondering how it would play out. If he believed that stessier was GL and ringed him, and expected an explosion, that would have killed stessier and prevented the lynch, which would have kept it daytime. But since the lynch happened before the PMs were processed, Moliere might have wondered whether the lynch would happen prior to the ring actions.

[stessier]

I'm looking forward to hearing what Moliere's PM was after the game too.

I mean, he blasted two people. Doubt there was much more to it than that.

[stessier]

The only caveat is if someone comes forward later with an unprovable role, they have to be tested.

We could prevent this by giving people time and saying that if you come forward with an unprovable role after day 3, you're going to be lynched.

That's exactly what we are doing as today is Day 3.

[Scoop20906]

The only caveat is if someone comes forward later with an unprovable role, they have to be tested.

We could prevent this by giving people time and saying that if you come forward with an unprovable role after day 3, you're going to be lynched.

That's exactly what we are doing as today is Day 3.

Yeah, anyone coming forward will need to be tested in some fashion. Lynching being one of those fashion they can't prove themselves some other way.

[stessier]

Interesting that I wasn't given a chance at final words. I will be curious to see what Chaos does when he checks his PM's.

I am interested in this, because it suggests that Moliere expected something to happen when Chaos checked his PMs. Would strongly suggest that Moliere ringed stessier, yes? Which suggests that stessier did not ring him back. Which also suggests that Moliere either believed that stessier is in fact Green Lantern (hence the expected explosion), or that he wanted to convey that impression in order to give a villain stessier cover

Right, why would Moliere post anything at all if not to help create some doubt for his last team mate.

He could have been genuinely wondering how it would play out. If he believed that stessier was GL and ringed him, and expected an explosion, that would have killed stessier and prevented the lynch, which would have kept it daytime. But since the lynch happened before the PMs were processed, Moliere might have wondered whether the lynch would happen prior to the ring actions.

Yeah, I'm thinking that's what he was wondering. But it doesn't take two blasts for our little fight to occur. I wonder who else he hit.

I also wonder why he thought I had ringed him. I wasn't subtle in suggesting I hadn't.

[El Guapo]

The only caveat is if someone comes forward later with an unprovable role, they have to be tested.

We could prevent this by giving people time and saying that if you come forward with an unprovable role after day 3, you're going to be lynched.

That's exactly what we are doing as today is Day 3.

I know. I'm just making it super explicit, so that Mister Magoo the Superhero doesn't decide to come forward tomorrow.

[Scoop20906]

Ok, I guess the game is on hold until the others check in...

PLAYERS
El Guapo - ??
Scoop20906 - Captain Marvel (proven)
Remus West - ??
RMC - ??
Grundbegriff - ??
Stessier - Green Lantern (claimed)

[Grundbegriff]

"Use of the Ring does Not Reveal Sinestro to the Public, only to Green Lantern."

Does "Reveal" here mean "reveal the identity of" or merely "reveal the existence of"?

[El Guapo]

Interesting that I wasn't given a chance at final words. I will be curious to see what Chaos does when he checks his PM's.

I am interested in this, because it suggests that Moliere expected something to happen when Chaos checked his PMs. Would strongly suggest that Moliere ringed stessier, yes? Which suggests that stessier did not ring him back. Which also suggests that Moliere either believed that stessier is in fact Green Lantern (hence the expected explosion), or that he wanted to convey that impression in order to give a villain stessier cover

Right, why would Moliere post anything at all if not to help create some doubt for his last team mate.

He could have been genuinely wondering how it would play out. If he believed that stessier was GL and ringed him, and expected an explosion, that would have killed stessier and prevented the lynch, which would have kept it daytime. But since the lynch happened before the PMs were processed, Moliere might have wondered whether the lynch would happen prior to the ring actions.

Yeah, I'm thinking that's what he was wondering. But it doesn't take two blasts for our little fight to occur. I wonder who else he hit.

I also wonder why he thought I had ringed him. I wasn't subtle in suggesting I hadn't.

Well he knows pretty much for certain that he's dying one way or the other, so might as well use the other charge and hope for the best. I assume he picked someone who is his best guess of being special in some way.

As for the latter question (assuming for the moment that you are indeed GL), either he might have thought you were lying about not ringing him, or he could have mistakenly believed (as I did until halfway through yesterday) that only one of the GL-Sinestro pairing needed to hit the other to trigger the fight.

[El Guapo]

"Use of the Ring does Not Reveal Sinestro to the Public, only to Green Lantern."

Does "Reveal" here mean "reveal the identity of" or merely "reveal the existence of"?

I asked about this halfway through day 1, but I can't remember the answer, and I really don't want to go back through the thread. I'm pretty sure that GL only finds out that Sinestro exists (not who he is) on this end, but I can't remember whether it's the same the other way around. I think so??

[stessier]

"Use of the Ring does Not Reveal Sinestro to the Public, only to Green Lantern."

Does "Reveal" here mean "reveal the identity of" or merely "reveal the existence of"?

I would only know he existed, not who he was. Same the other way too.

[El Guapo]

"Use of the Ring does Not Reveal Sinestro to the Public, only to Green Lantern."

Does "Reveal" here mean "reveal the identity of" or merely "reveal the existence of"?

I would only know he existed, not who he was. Same the other way too.

Though wait, doesn't Sinestro start the game knowing if Green Lantern is in the game? Wouldn't that suggest that Green Lantern's specific identity gets revealed? Otherwise the ring usage identity thing would be a nullity.

[RMC]

There are a few heroes that if they reveal might give the villains help. (As El Guapo illustrated)

IE - the one that converts if attacked by villains, or the ones that elude a night attack.

So do we really want them to come forward? I mean we have a few days to play with, so even just killing someone randomly gives us a decent chance of winning. Especially if we have one of the heroes that can elude an attack at night, right? I mean worst case, we settle on one of the unexposed heroes and they claim a role, then we either back off, or kill them to see if they were really a villain.

Or am I making this too simple?

[El Guapo]

"Use of the Ring does Not Reveal Sinestro to the Public, only to Green Lantern."

Does "Reveal" here mean "reveal the identity of" or merely "reveal the existence of"?

I would only know he existed, not who he was. Same the other way too.

Though wait, doesn't Sinestro start the game knowing if Green Lantern is in the game? Wouldn't that suggest that Green Lantern's specific identity gets revealed? Otherwise the ring usage identity thing would be a nullity.

No, idiot. Sinestro starts the game knowing whether GL is in the game, but GL doesn't start knowing whether Sinestro is. But when and if Sinestro uses his ring, then GL finds out that Sinestro is. So it's not redundant.

[Grundbegriff]

"Use of the Ring does Not Reveal Sinestro to the Public, only to Green Lantern."

Does "Reveal" here mean "reveal the identity of" or merely "reveal the existence of"?

I would only know he existed, not who he was. Same the other way too.

Though wait, doesn't Sinestro start the game knowing if Green Lantern is in the game? Wouldn't that suggest that Green Lantern's specific identity gets revealed? Otherwise the ring usage identity thing would be a nullity.

No, idiot. Sinestro starts the game knowing whether GL is in the game, but GL doesn't start knowing whether Sinestro is. But when and if Sinestro uses his ring, then GL finds out that Sinestro is. So it's not redundant.

El Guapo's rebuking himself.

Harvey?

[El Guapo]

"Use of the Ring does Not Reveal Sinestro to the Public, only to Green Lantern."

Does "Reveal" here mean "reveal the identity of" or merely "reveal the existence of"?

I would only know he existed, not who he was. Same the other way too.

Though wait, doesn't Sinestro start the game knowing if Green Lantern is in the game? Wouldn't that suggest that Green Lantern's specific identity gets revealed? Otherwise the ring usage identity thing would be a nullity.

No, idiot. Sinestro starts the game knowing whether GL is in the game, but GL doesn't start knowing whether Sinestro is. But when and if Sinestro uses his ring, then GL finds out that Sinestro is. So it's not redundant.

El Guapo's rebuking himself.

Harvey?

I just realized five minutes after I posted that I was stupidly wrong.

[Grundbegriff]

"Use of the Ring does Not Reveal Sinestro to the Public, only to Green Lantern."

Does "Reveal" here mean "reveal the identity of" or merely "reveal the existence of"?

I would only know he existed, not who he was. Same the other way too.

Though wait, doesn't Sinestro start the game knowing if Green Lantern is in the game? Wouldn't that suggest that Green Lantern's specific identity gets revealed? Otherwise the ring usage identity thing would be a nullity.

No, idiot. Sinestro starts the game knowing whether GL is in the game, but GL doesn't start knowing whether Sinestro is. But when and if Sinestro uses his ring, then GL finds out that Sinestro is. So it's not redundant.

El Guapo's rebuking himself.
Harvey?

I just realized five minutes after I posted that I was stupidly wrong.

Seems like orc mischief.

[El Guapo]

"Use of the Ring does Not Reveal Sinestro to the Public, only to Green Lantern."

Does "Reveal" here mean "reveal the identity of" or merely "reveal the existence of"?

I would only know he existed, not who he was. Same the other way too.

Though wait, doesn't Sinestro start the game knowing if Green Lantern is in the game? Wouldn't that suggest that Green Lantern's specific identity gets revealed? Otherwise the ring usage identity thing would be a nullity.

No, idiot. Sinestro starts the game knowing whether GL is in the game, but GL doesn't start knowing whether Sinestro is. But when and if Sinestro uses his ring, then GL finds out that Sinestro is. So it's not redundant.

El Guapo's rebuking himself.
Harvey?

I just realized five minutes after I posted that I was stupidly wrong.

Seems like orc mischief.

Orc mischief?

[El Guapo]

Grund, I don't think that I sound at all like a spicy 4-piece comedy band from Dundee with impeccable timing.

[Remus West]

"Use of the Ring does Not Reveal Sinestro to the Public, only to Green Lantern."

Does "Reveal" here mean "reveal the identity of" or merely "reveal the existence of"?

I would only know he existed, not who he was. Same the other way too.

Really? Did you read the rules on GL carefully because Sinestro starts already knowing who you are. Green Lantern using his ring means nothing. Sinestro doesn't get told is if Green Lantern uses his ring.

[El Guapo]

"Use of the Ring does Not Reveal Sinestro to the Public, only to Green Lantern."

Does "Reveal" here mean "reveal the identity of" or merely "reveal the existence of"?

I would only know he existed, not who he was. Same the other way too.

Really? Did you read the rules on GL carefully because Sinestro starts already knowing who you are. Green Lantern using his ring means nothing. Sinestro doesn't get told is if Green Lantern uses his ring.

Sinestro starts knowing that GL is in the game, not who GL is.

[Scoop20906]

 stessier 
 


For poor reading comprehension.

[Scoop20906]

 withdrawal Stessier 
 

Wait. Which is it?

[Remus West]

"Use of the Ring does Not Reveal Sinestro to the Public, only to Green Lantern."

Does "Reveal" here mean "reveal the identity of" or merely "reveal the existence of"?

I would only know he existed, not who he was. Same the other way too.

Really? Did you read the rules on GL carefully because Sinestro starts already knowing who you are. Green Lantern using his ring means nothing. Sinestro doesn't get told is if Green Lantern uses his ring.

Sinestro starts knowing that GL is in the game, not who GL is.

Which is my point. There is no reveal regarding GL. Sinestro simply knows from the start that GL is in the game or not. Use of the ring, the premise of Grund's question does not have an "other way too". Are you trying to say that Stessier, claiming GL, is telling us that Sinestro does not start the game knowing GL's identity?

[El Guapo]

"Use of the Ring does Not Reveal Sinestro to the Public, only to Green Lantern."

Does "Reveal" here mean "reveal the identity of" or merely "reveal the existence of"?

I would only know he existed, not who he was. Same the other way too.

Really? Did you read the rules on GL carefully because Sinestro starts already knowing who you are. Green Lantern using his ring means nothing. Sinestro doesn't get told is if Green Lantern uses his ring.

Sinestro starts knowing that GL is in the game, not who GL is.

Which is my point. There is no reveal regarding GL. Sinestro simply knows from the start that GL is in the game or not. Use of the ring, the premise of Grund's question does not have an "other way too". Are you trying to say that Stessier, claiming GL, is telling us that Sinestro does not start the game knowing GL's identity?

I was noting that your bolded statement above is not right - Sinestro doesn't start knowing who GL is (just that he exists). Stessier's first sentence above was saying that he would only be told Sinestro is out there (not who he is). I'm not clear whether stessier's "Same the other way round" statement was linked to ring usage, or saying that Sinestro similarly only knows GL's existence, rather than who he is.

[Remus West]

Ah, yes. I see where I made it more confusing.

[stessier]

Sorry for making that ambiguous. My bad. Although seeing as I'm likely getting lynched either way, I'm not going to lose sleep over it.

[stessier]

So has everyone checked in? Can we safely declare we only had 3 specials?

[RMC]

So has everyone checked in? Can we safely declare we only had 3 specials?

I don't think we have all agreed that we need to revel if we have powers. El Guapo did a good job of explaining why we shouldn't if we have some of the powers.