The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

[Blackhawk]

I almost wonder if Biden's smartest move would to just keep out of it. Don't pardon (pissing off the Democrats), but don't pursue (pissing off the Republicans.) Let the states mete out Trump's punishment. Trump doesn't get off scott-free, he's still ruined, possibly in prison, and it doesn't intensify the civil cold war we're in.

[Brian]

That's what I figured would be the best move. Biden personally taking a "hands off" approach but allowing the (new and improved) Justice Department free reign to pursue any and all charges.

[Jaymon]

I suspect, now this is just opinion, but I suspect. Now that Trump is on the way out, Republicans that are still in are going to start turning on him en mass. He is going to get a severe taste of justice, as he finds out what personally what its like to be thrown under the bus once your usefullness is up.

Mitch and the other lifelong politicians got what the wanted, and now Trump is rapidly becoming a liability, and its time to toss him to the trash heap.

[Holman]

That's what I figured would be the best move. Biden personally taking a "hands off" approach but allowing the (new and improved) Justice Department free reign to pursue any and all charges.

This. Which is how it's supposed to work anyway.

Justice isn't supposed to be a part of politics at all.

[Kurth]

And . . . Esper is gone.

[Jaymann]

Can we add attempted bribing of election officials to the list? Dom Perignon wants to know.

[Grifman]

A new Trump investigation:

The Justice Department is investigating a potential crime related to funneling money to the White House or related political committee in exchange for a presidential pardon, according to court records unsealed Tuesday in federal court.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/01/politics ... index.html

[Jaymann]

Just heard Ivanka is being deposed for misuse of inauguration funds.

Edit: It's a civil suit by the district of DC.

[Remus West]

Just heard Ivanka is being deposed for misuse of inauguration funds.

Edit: It's a civil suit by the district of DC.

Link?

[Holman]

Just heard Ivanka is being deposed for misuse of inauguration funds.

I want to see headlines like this every day in 2021.

[Jaymann]

Just heard Ivanka is being deposed for misuse of inauguration funds.

Edit: It's a civil suit by the district of DC.

Link?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/02/politics ... index.html

[Daehawk]

Hope all of them are hounded the rest of their days.

[Skinypupy]

Someone just referred to Trump's kids as "Traitor Tots" and I can't stop laughing.

[Blackhawk]

And now I can't stop, either.

[Paingod]

That is delightful and I love it!

[El Guapo]

Thoughtful analysis.

[RunningMn9]

Someone just referred to Trump's kids as "Traitor Tots" and I can't stop laughing.

I saw that in a tweet yesterday and loved it.

[Holman]

And they told me John le Carré was done!

Ex-Hill Staffer Linked to Veselnitskaya Dies Suddenly After Fall Near His Home.

The longtime aide to “Putin’s Congressman” Dana Rohrabacher died suddenly from a head injury over the weekend.

Paul Behrends was found by emergency responders close to his home on Friday night with severe head trauma. He was taken to a local hospital where surgeons fought to save him, but he passed away on Saturday, according to a spokesman for Rohrabacher.

Behrends was a controversial figure on Capitol Hill who lost his job as staff director for the House Foreign Affairs subcommittee after The Daily Beast reported on his links to Trump Tower lawyer Natalia Veselnitskaya’s operation in the U.S.

Behrends made headlines for the first time in July 2017, after Veselnitskaya’s explosive June 2016 Trump Tower meeting with Jared Kushner, Donald Trump Jr., and then Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort was exposed. The meeting subsequently shone a light on Behrends’ own Russian entanglements.

Behrends had traveled to Moscow with Rohrabacher in April 2016, a few months before that meeting. In Russia, they were given a document from the Prosecutor General’s Office marked “confidential,” which included details of the Kremlin’s battle against U.S. sanctions and a pro-Kremlin propaganda movie.

When they returned to D.C., Rohrabacher cited those Kremlin’s talking points as he delayed the passage of the Global Magnitsky Act.

etc etc

[NickAragua]

Clumsy bastard probably walked into somebody's baseball bat repeatedly. How very American of him.

[Max Peck]

A judge has asked the WH to clarify whether a POTUS tweet actually counts as an order to declassify.

I would hope it wouldn't, as a twitter account could always been hacked.

President Trump’s Twitter accessed by security expert who guessed password ‘maga2020!’

No harm, no foul.

Trump Twitter ‘hack’: Police accept attacker's claim

Dutch prosecutors have found a hacker did successfully log in to Donald Trump's Twitter account by guessing his password - "MAGA2020!"

But they will not be punishing Victor Gevers, who was acting "ethically".

Mr Gevers shared what he said were screenshots of the inside of Mr Trump's account on 22 October, during the final stages of the US presidential election.

But at the time, the White House denied it had been hacked and Twitter said it had no evidence of it.

Neither The White House nor Twitter has responded to requests for further comment.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

What a shocker!

Spoiler:

EXCLUSIVE: Jared Kushner helped create a Trump campaign shell company that secretly paid the president's family members and spent $617 million in reelection cash, a source tells Insider https://businessinsider.com/jared-kushn ... er=twitter via
@businessinsider

[LawBeefaroni]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl ... 76359.html

Mr Kushner allegedly helped establish the company in 2018 and Mr Trump’s daughter-in-law Lara Trump was installed as president, vice president Mike Pence’s nephew John Pence as vice president, and Trump campaign CFO Sean Dollman as treasurer and secretary.

[Isgrimnur]

Hound these assholes to the ends of the earth and/or their graves.

[Blackhawk]

Why, in the name of Holy Idiocy, would you do that sort of thing when you are already under a microscope and know that whatever you do is guaranteed to be actively investigated?

[Skinypupy]

Why, in the name of Holy Idiocy, would you do that sort of thing when you are already under a microscope and know that whatever you do is guaranteed to be actively investigated?

Because they’ve skated by their entire lives doing shady shit with absolutely zero consequences. And, for the most part, that trend has continued throughout this administration.

That’s just who they are.

[malchior]

Why, in the name of Holy Idiocy, would you do that sort of thing when you are already under a microscope and know that whatever you do is guaranteed to be actively investigated?

Because they’ve skated by their entire lives doing shady shit with absolutely zero consequences. And, for the most part, that trend has continued throughout this administration.

That’s just who they are.

This and the fact that there is next to no chance that that reality will change. Nothing is going to happen to these people. Law and order is for the peasants.

[Unagi]

Of course, that statement isn’t true though.
Rich people do get busted ‘all the time’.
I mean, why will this be ignored by the law ?

I don’t want to sound ignorant, but I don’t accept that the rich can do what ever they want.

[Combustible Lemur]

Of course, that statement isn’t true though.
Rich people do get busted ‘all the time’.
I mean, why will this be ignored by the law ?

I don’t want to sound ignorant, but I don’t accept that the rich can do what ever they want.

Do they? Relative to the rates and punishments for poor people, i would expect rich people to have much lower rates of prosecution/ incarceration. Hence the golden parachute jokes.
In part, because white collar crime is harder to Proove, but also the wealthy can hire lawyers who can fight the law. The poor often just get cycled through a predatory system designed to profit off of them, and for prosecutors to make their bones for future political/ government/ high demand work.
While a different point this research that poverty is whats being functionally crimimalized
This one is more about the systemic benefit of the rich

The rich make mistakes the poor go to jail.



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[Unagi]

Of course, that statement isn’t true though.
Rich people do get busted ‘all the time’.
I mean, why will this be ignored by the law ?

I don’t want to sound ignorant, but I don’t accept that the rich can do what ever they want.

Do they? Relative to the rates and punishments for poor people, i would expect rich people to have much lower rates of prosecution/ incarceration.

Well, I certainly realize that the rich get away with more, but that they all get away with everything isn't really the case - and yes, for the reasons you speak of - mostly 'there access to money gets them better representation'. Which isn't the same as them just bribing a judge, or something...

Don't get me wrong, I get it, and I agree - but I do like to think that they are still held to the light... and that the law still applies to them.

Hence the golden parachute jokes.

I've always understood 'a golden parachute' to be some clause in an executive's work contract - where if he/she is terminated, the company still has to pay them a ton of money (or anything resembling such an agreement.) Having absolutely nothing at all to do with the law or crime.

[malchior]

Of course, that statement isn’t true though.
Rich people do get busted ‘all the time’.
I mean, why will this be ignored by the law ?

I don’t want to sound ignorant, but I don’t accept that the rich can do what ever they want.

It was never meant as a literal statement of absolute truth. That's absurd. Of course, they can't do whatever they want. There are consequences for some actions. Call it a rule of thumb though that usually holds up instead if that helps. The point is that justice in our system has been perverted to the extent that certain crimes -- a good example is tax evasion -- are rampant now. The wealthy and powerful are breaking the law in plain sight and nothing happens. We literally just saw 4 years of it.

[Combustible Lemur]

Of course, that statement isn’t true though.
Rich people do get busted ‘all the time’.
I mean, why will this be ignored by the law ?

I don’t want to sound ignorant, but I don’t accept that the rich can do what ever they want.

Do they? Relative to the rates and punishments for poor people, i would expect rich people to have much lower rates of prosecution/ incarceration.

Well, I certainly realize that the rich get away with more, but that they all get away with everything isn't really the case - and yes, for the reasons you speak of - mostly 'there access to money gets them better representation'. Which isn't the same as them just bribing a judge, or something...

Don't get me wrong, I get it, and I agree - but I do like to think that they are still held to the light... and that the law still applies to them.

Hence the golden parachute jokes.

I've always understood 'a golden parachute' to be some clause in an executive's work contract - where if he/she is terminated, the company still has to pay them a ton of money (or anything resembling such an agreement.) Having absolutely nothing at all to do with the law or crime.

As to the golden parachute, yes and.

Often when that ceo is getting fired, its after billions of dollars of damage, hundreds or thousand of lives impacted, ruined, and sometimes potential criminality.

Ex: Ceos during 2007, smoking industry, flint (and similar cases) , the coal industry, safety failures, sexual assault until recently, etc.

Compared to

I bought some cocaine as a kid and am doing ten years.

Kill one person you're a murderer, kill a thousan your a businessman. Kill ten thousand, you're in charge.


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[stessier]

Of course, that statement isn’t true though.
Rich people do get busted ‘all the time’.
I mean, why will this be ignored by the law ?

I don’t want to sound ignorant, but I don’t accept that the rich can do what ever they want.

It was never meant as a literal statement of absolute truth. That's absurd. Of course, they can't do whatever they want. There are consequences for some actions. Call it a rule of thumb though that usually holds up instead if that helps. The point is that justice in our system has been perverted to the extent that certain crimes -- a good example is tax evasion -- are rampant now. The wealthy and powerful are breaking the law in plain sight and nothing happens. We literally just saw 4 years of it.

Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Paul Manafort, Michael Cohen, Michael Flynn, Rick Gates, George Nader, George Papadopolous, and Michael Aventatti disagree with this assessment.

[malchior]

Of course, that statement isn’t true though.
Rich people do get busted ‘all the time’.
I mean, why will this be ignored by the law ?

I don’t want to sound ignorant, but I don’t accept that the rich can do what ever they want.

It was never meant as a literal statement of absolute truth. That's absurd. Of course, they can't do whatever they want. There are consequences for some actions. Call it a rule of thumb though that usually holds up instead if that helps. The point is that justice in our system has been perverted to the extent that certain crimes -- a good example is tax evasion -- are rampant now. The wealthy and powerful are breaking the law in plain sight and nothing happens. We literally just saw 4 years of it.

Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Paul Manafort, Michael Cohen, Michael Flynn, Rick Gates, George Nader, George Papadopolous, and Michael Aventatti disagree with this assessment.

Eh, this list has some significant flaws in it. There is some accountability mixed in there but more than half of these got slaps on the wrist or sprung corruptly by Trump to stop him from being in the crosshairs for his crimes. Considering the many violations of campaign finance law, the Hatch act, other financial crimes, etc. this list is far too short by a long shot. That very well might corrected by the incoming administration but I won't hold my breath.

[stessier]

Of course, that statement isn’t true though.
Rich people do get busted ‘all the time’.
I mean, why will this be ignored by the law ?

I don’t want to sound ignorant, but I don’t accept that the rich can do what ever they want.

It was never meant as a literal statement of absolute truth. That's absurd. Of course, they can't do whatever they want. There are consequences for some actions. Call it a rule of thumb though that usually holds up instead if that helps. The point is that justice in our system has been perverted to the extent that certain crimes -- a good example is tax evasion -- are rampant now. The wealthy and powerful are breaking the law in plain sight and nothing happens. We literally just saw 4 years of it.

Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Paul Manafort, Michael Cohen, Michael Flynn, Rick Gates, George Nader, George Papadopolous, and Michael Aventatti disagree with this assessment.

Eh, this list has some significant flaws in it. There is some accountability mixed in there but more than half of these got slaps on the wrist or sprung corruptly by Trump to stop him from being in the crosshairs for his crimes. Considering the many violations of campaign finance law, the Hatch act, other financial crimes, etc. this list is far too short by a long shot. That very well might corrected by the incoming administration but I won't hold my breath.

Stop moving the goal posts. Not everyone is going to be held accountable for everything - that's true for both the poor and rich. The lists shows that rich people are held accountable by the courts. The courts can't help that the President has a practically unfettered power to protect his minions.

Just say you wish more people would be held accountable for the many crimes committed rather than speaking in absolutes.

[malchior]

Of course, that statement isn’t true though.
Rich people do get busted ‘all the time’.
I mean, why will this be ignored by the law ?

I don’t want to sound ignorant, but I don’t accept that the rich can do what ever they want.

It was never meant as a literal statement of absolute truth. That's absurd. Of course, they can't do whatever they want. There are consequences for some actions. Call it a rule of thumb though that usually holds up instead if that helps. The point is that justice in our system has been perverted to the extent that certain crimes -- a good example is tax evasion -- are rampant now. The wealthy and powerful are breaking the law in plain sight and nothing happens. We literally just saw 4 years of it.

Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Paul Manafort, Michael Cohen, Michael Flynn, Rick Gates, George Nader, George Papadopolous, and Michael Aventatti disagree with this assessment.

Eh, this list has some significant flaws in it. There is some accountability mixed in there but more than half of these got slaps on the wrist or sprung corruptly by Trump to stop him from being in the crosshairs for his crimes. Considering the many violations of campaign finance law, the Hatch act, other financial crimes, etc. this list is far too short by a long shot. That very well might corrected by the incoming administration but I won't hold my breath.

Stop moving the goal posts. Not everyone is going to be held accountable for everything - that's true for both the poor and rich.

I'm not moving any goal posts and I never argued that.

The lists shows that rich people are held accountable by the courts. The courts can't help that the President has a practically unfettered power to protect his minions.

I never argued it was the courts. I said system intentionally. The courts are only part of the process. They've largely held and have been impartial to the law...mostly aside from some troubling exceptions. However, as the links above show the rich have historically had a massive advantage over the poor in this system. That is just a fact. The point being made is that this is a *system-wide* problem. If you focus on the courts then you miss the picture. Focus on the DOJ. Focus on the pardon power. Same problems. When you widen out the lens and see what is actually happening we have a clear picture of fairly rampant abuse of the system by the rich and powerful. They control policy, they evade taxes openly and mostly without consequence, prosecutors are gun shy and won't investigate them often times, etc.

That was why I was pointing out that the list flawed because for several of them the overall end-to-end "system" worked to help some of them evade accountability. And as an aside we even saw the other side of 'accountability which is false or prejudicial accountability. To wit, the administration's attempted perversion of the system to punish Cohen as one Court ruled. But back to lack of accountability, the Flynn case was a complete ethical nightmare that involved the DOJ literally helping a defendant. It exposed that there were serious political accountability issues in the DOJ. In the end, that's all I'm saying. There is a deep sickness throughout our system of law and order.

The upshot is if you want to point to a list of guys mostly caught in one early investigation, I'd agree it was something but it is certainly not strong evidence of a system holding the powerful accountable.

Just say you wish more people would be held accountable for the many crimes committed rather than speaking in absolutes.

I didn't do that. To quote myself,

It was never meant as a literal statement of absolute truth. That's absurd.

[malchior]

Of course, that statement isn’t true though.
Rich people do get busted ‘all the time’.
I mean, why will this be ignored by the law ?

I don’t want to sound ignorant, but I don’t accept that the rich can do what ever they want.

It was never meant as a literal statement of absolute truth. That's absurd. Of course, they can't do whatever they want. There are consequences for some actions. Call it a rule of thumb though that usually holds up instead if that helps. The point is that justice in our system has been perverted to the extent that certain crimes -- a good example is tax evasion -- are rampant now. The wealthy and powerful are breaking the law in plain sight and nothing happens. We literally just saw 4 years of it.

Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Paul Manafort, Michael Cohen, Michael Flynn, Rick Gates, George Nader, George Papadopolous, and Michael Aventatti disagree with this assessment.

Eh, this list has some significant flaws in it. There is some accountability mixed in there but more than half of these got slaps on the wrist or sprung corruptly by Trump to stop him from being in the crosshairs for his crimes. Considering the many violations of campaign finance law, the Hatch act, other financial crimes, etc. this list is far too short by a long shot. That very well might corrected by the incoming administration but I won't hold my breath.

Stop moving the goal posts. Not everyone is going to be held accountable for everything - that's true for both the poor and rich.

I'm not moving any goal posts and I'm not arguing that.

The lists shows that rich people are held accountable by the courts. The courts can't help that the President has a practically unfettered power to protect his minions.

I never argued it was the courts. I said system intentionally. The courts are only part of the process. They've largely held and have been impartial to the law...mostly aside from some troubling exceptions. However, as the links above show the rich have historically had a massive advantage over the poor in this system. That is just a fact. The point being made is that this is a *system-wide* problem. If you focus on the courts then you miss the picture. Further, a focus on the DOJ or the pardon power have the same problems. When you widen out the lens and see what is actually happening ,we have a clear picture of fairly rampant abuse of the system by the rich and powerful. They control policy, they evade taxes relatively openly and mostly without consequence because the IRS has been defanged, and prosecutors are gun shy and won't investigate them often times, etc.

That was why I was pointing out that the list was flawed. For several of them the overall end-to-end "system" worked to help some of them evade accountability. And as an aside we even saw the other side of 'accountability which is false or prejudicial accountability. To wit, the administration's attempted perversion of the system to punish Cohen as one Court ruled. But back to lack of accountability, the Flynn case was a complete ethical nightmare that involved the DOJ literally helping a defendant. It exposed that there were serious political accountability issues in the DOJ. In the end, that's all I'm saying. There is a deep sickness throughout our system of law and order.

The upshot is if you want to point to a list of guys mostly caught in one early investigation, I'd agree it was something but it is certainly not strong evidence of a system holding the powerful accountable.

Just say you wish more people would be held accountable for the many crimes committed rather than speaking in absolutes.

I didn't do that. To quote myself,

It was never meant as a literal statement of absolute truth. That's absurd.

[Zarathud]

None of those listed people were rich. They are sycophants and retainers and minions.

Trump declared that if he has a lawyer work for him, then if something goes wrong then it’s the lawyer’s fault, not his. Throw someone else under the bus, and the ringleaders gets away.

It’s a pretty common sentiment. I have fortunately worked with a few lawyers who fired their clients and avoided this trap.

[LordMortis]

Listening to the news. Pardons for every one!!!!!

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/22/politics ... index.html

The pardons of former campaign aide George Papadopoulos, former US congressmen Duncan Hunter and Chris Collins, and the four Blackwater guards involved in the Iraq massacre kick off what is expected to be a flurry of pardons and commutations in the coming weeks as Trump concludes his term.
Also included in the batch announced on Tuesday are Alex van der Zwaan, the Dutch lawyer who was sentenced to 30 days in jail after pleading guilty to lying to Mueller investigators; two Border Patrol agents convicted in 2006 of shooting and wounding an unarmed undocumented immigrant and then covering it up; and several people convicted of non-violent drug crimes serving lengthy sentences.
The pardons came at the recommendation of Trump allies in Congress and, in some cases, the conservative media. Many of the non-violent drug offenders were recommended for clemency by Alice Johnson, the former federal inmate whose sentence Trump commuted at the urging of Kim Kardashian West.

Biden should dismantle Academi and Frontier. Let them all operate from Russia. Reason I don't know how many why I don't run things. I'd be seizing the wealth of *soooo* many and putting in the US general fund.

[Holman]

NY is sharpening the knives.

[El Guapo]

I like the implication that an hours long interview is unusually long. Lots of these interviews go like 9 - 5.