Octopus Overlords

Chuck Grassley, come on down:

Sen. Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa, has tested positive for coronavirus.

The lawmaker, who at 87 years old is considered at high risk for severe illness, tweeted Tuesday that he tested positive hours after he said he would isolate following contact with someone who had been infected.

Grassley, who is president pro tempore of the Senate, presided over the chamber during votes Monday. He is high up in the presidential line of succession, behind Vice President Mike Pence and House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.

Thoughts and prayers.

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:39 pm Thoughts and prayers.

I noticed you didn't mention for what

Daehawk wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:45 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:39 pm Thoughts and prayers.

I noticed you didn't mention for what

The world may never know.

Not sure if your thoughts and prayers are working.

https://twitter.com/RawStory/status/1328846581324537857

COVID-infected GOP senator attended leadership meeting with McConnell -- one day prior to testing positive: report

The Offspring are coming to mind

Several sheriffs in upstate New York say they will ignore Gov. Cuomo's order to limit Thanksgiving guests

I think their "Let the mother fucker burn" policy is doomed to failure.

I just don't even have the words anymore:

Just a few days after Gov. Kim Reynolds issued a limited mask mandate for indoor and outdoor gatherings, a group that does not support vaccine mandates held a conference at a Des Moines hotel with little mask-wearing or social distancing.

The group, Informed Choice Iowa, posted a video after Saturday's all-day conference, showing members standing in a group together, shouting "Freedom."

No one in the video was wearing a mask. The event was held at the Holiday Inn Des Moines-Airport Conference Center.

Regarding the organization:

Informed Choice Iowa declined an on-camera interview, but sent this statement: "As an organization we respect every individual’s constitutionally protected right to determine their own medical interventions appropriate for individual circumstances, especially considering we do not have any data on the long term ramifications of masking an entire society. The purpose of this year's event was the same as last year and will be the same as next year; to equip parents, grandparents, and Iowans with science and data to make truly informed medical decisions."

I mean, there is no history between 1918-1920...

Got exposed today at work so I get to do the 14 day quarantine. So so frustrating for so many reasons: we're incredibly short staffed right now and this makes that situation worse. I have no idea how I'm supposed to quarantine from my family. I obviously don't want to get sick and most annoying of all the dumbass hick hospital where we got our patient told us they had had multiple negative covid tests!!!!!!
I know better than to trust those idiots; the whole reason my job even exists is bc dumbasses like this don't know wtf they're doing, so they call us to pull their asses out of the fire. But damn man, can you not even do this right?!?

I'm not very worried about getting sick; we were suspicious almost immediately and donned all the appropriate PPE. It's more just the lackadasical attitude and ineptness that bothers me (and of course the inconvenience). I just don't understand how, 8 months into this thing, we still have even medical professionals who are this indifferent.

I guess the benefit of our crazy nationwide spike is that trials speed along? Pfizer this morning says their initial trial results are now fully in, efficacy is 95%, and they're seeking emergency approval 'within days.'

My MILs school system has about 100 student cases and just went all remote until early 2021. They didn't think it was tied to the school but still they closed all facilities. They are doing the deep cleaning floor show before staff can return after the T-Giving. It sounds like the administration there does not have any other plays to run.

Has there been any change in how long it takes the virus to die on given surfaces? Last I heard it was 24 hours on cardboard, 72 on stainless steel... and 72 was about the max lifespan outside a host?

If you send people home Wednesday night and tell them not to come back, the whole building should be "sterile" by Monday morning, right?

My big concern is in letting nature handle death of microbes and the overuse of antibiotics/antimicrobials. Some level of "healthy microbial ecosystem" should be left behind to prevent worse things from taking over the void, right?

Paingod wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:43 am Has there been any change in how long it takes the virus to die on given surfaces? Last I heard it was 24 hours on cardboard, 72 on stainless steel... and 72 was about the max lifespan outside a host?

If you send people home Wednesday night and tell them not to come back, the whole building should be "sterile" by Monday morning, right?

My big concern is in letting nature handle death of microbes and the overuse of antibiotics/antimicrobials. Some level of "healthy microbial ecosystem" should be left behind to prevent worse things from taking over the void, right?

There's little to no evidence you can catch COVID from fomites (surface contacts).

Since I know of a person who still washes their groceries. I think it mostly still functions to get the staff to show up to work.

noxiousdog wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:56 am

Paingod wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 9:43 am Has there been any change in how long it takes the virus to die on given surfaces? Last I heard it was 24 hours on cardboard, 72 on stainless steel... and 72 was about the max lifespan outside a host?

If you send people home Wednesday night and tell them not to come back, the whole building should be "sterile" by Monday morning, right?

My big concern is in letting nature handle death of microbes and the overuse of antibiotics/antimicrobials. Some level of "healthy microbial ecosystem" should be left behind to prevent worse things from taking over the void, right?

There's little to no evidence you can catch COVID from fomites (surface contacts).

This. We still wash hands when handling mail/deliveries, but I've seen nothing to suggest surfaces are a significant risk.

Yeah, I think those studies were based on such high elevations of the virus it would have been the equivalent of 100+ people interacting with the surface.

But I still let my mail sit for a few days just to be on the safe side, since there's no harm in waiting.

I'll dig up the latest on surfaces later this morning. In short, nothing has changed since the mid-summer. Handwashing? Always important. Transfer of the virus from surfaces is still (as far as I know) theoretical. This is a respiratory virus and your greatest danger is from being in close contact with unmasked people, not the latest Amazon delivery or the package of Doritos from the Piggly Wiggly.

This is something I saw this morning that absolutely nails it.

An update from Pfizer:

Among 170 cases of covid-19 in the trial, 162 were in the placebo group and eight were in the vaccine group. There were 10 cases of severe disease in the trial, nine of which were in the placebo group and one in the vaccine group.

Although the data has still not been "published or peer reviewed".

Defiant wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:43 am An update from Pfizer:

Among 170 cases of covid-19 in the trial, 162 were in the placebo group and eight were in the vaccine group. There were 10 cases of severe disease in the trial, nine of which were in the placebo group and one in the vaccine group.

Although the data has still not been "published or peer reviewed".

This is literally happening:


Pfizer: 90% effective!
Russia: 92% effective!
Moderna: 94.5% effective and doesn't require Mr. Freeze!
Pfizer: 95% effective!

Another couple of weeks and they should be 105% effective.

Defiant wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:01 pm Another couple of weeks and they should be 105% effective.

By February we will never have had a pandemic.

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:03 pm

Defiant wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:01 pm Another couple of weeks and they should be 105% effective.

By February we will never have had a pandemic.

Just the thought made me smile wistfully.

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:03 pm

Defiant wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:01 pm Another couple of weeks and they should be 105% effective.

By February we will never have had a pandemic.

I thought this was supposed to happen on November 4?

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:33 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:03 pm

Defiant wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:01 pm Another couple of weeks and they should be 105% effective.

By February we will never have had a pandemic.

I thought this was supposed to happen on November 4?

I think that was just that we'd stop hearing about it. Speaking of, why are we still posting in this thread?

Probably more detailed than what most want to read, but I still think the study published over the summer is being circulated as the the current best model regarding surfaces:

None of these studies present scenarios akin to real-life situations. Although I did not find measurements of coronavirus quantities in aerosol droplets from patients, the amount of influenza virus RNA in aerosols has been measured, with a concentration equivalent to 10–100 viral particles in a droplet, with even fewer infectious influenza virus particlescapable of growth in a plaque assay. By contrast, one study found human coronavirus to survive for only 3–6 h (depending on the surface tested), and human coronavirus to survive for 1h, after drying on various surfaces including aluminum, sterile latex surgical gloves, and sterile sponges. In a study in which the authors tried to mimic actual conditions in which a surface might be contaminated by a patient, no viable SARS-CoV was detected on surfaces.

In summary:

I am not disputing the findings of these studies, only the applicability to real life. For example, in the studies that used a sample of 10⁷, 10⁶, and 10⁴ particles of infectious virus on a small surface area,1–3 these concentrations are a lot higher than those in droplets in real-life situations, with the amount of virus actually deposited on surfaces likely to be several orders of magnitude smaller. Hence, a real-life situation is better represented in the work of Dowell and colleagues in which no viable virus was found on fomites.

Additionally:

I do not disagree with erring on the side of caution, but this can go to extremes not justified by the data. Although periodically disinfecting surfaces and use of gloves are reasonable precautions especially in hospitals, I believe that fomites that have not been in contact with an infected carrier for many hours do not pose a measurable risk of transmission in non-hospital settings. A more balanced perspective is needed to curb excesses that become counterproductive.

I don't think my own opinion has changed on this. Announcing cleaning after an outbreak is "feel good" activity. Cleaning is important, but it's not going to address what happened or likely influence future outbreaks. Additionally, if an organization is bragging about how much "deep cleaning" they're doing in off hours (like a school or office doing so on weekends or overnights) and they're not enforcing mask use, ventilation and worker/student density issues, that's a problem.

Well...that's certainly a headline:

North Dakota Hits Highest COVID-19 Mortality Rate In The World:

North Dakota had the highest COVID-19 mortality rate of any other state or even any other country in the world last week, according to a shocking analysis by the Federation of American Scientists.

South Dakota ranked third-worst in the world.

Both states also have the lowest rates of face mask use in the nation.

The rates are what health experts would expect in a war-torn nation — but not in the U.S., the scientists said.

Particularly terrifying when you consider that North Dakota is one of the younger states in the nation.

It would seem there's lots of competition for the best headlines this week, here coming out of the state of Mississippi:

https://twitter.com/mcwm/status/1328543035400089600

This headline floored me:

“After Big Thanksgiving Dinners, Plan Small Christmas Funerals”

Little Raven wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 1:30 pm Particularly terrifying when you consider that North Dakota is one of the younger states in the nation.

At first, but if you consider that more young, non-compliant individuals means more danger for olds and comorbid individuals, it kind of makes sense. Fewer at high-risk but they are more fucked.

"new lockdown" for Oregon starts today.
Some of my family reached out to ask about it. it was rough to stay polite.

This changes nothing! Its literally the same thing I've been doing all year. I go to the doctor, the grocery, and sometimes drive-thru.
Thats it, thats the extent. No friends, no bars, no gyms, no vacations. OK yes, sometimes I go to a store that is not a grocery, but when lockdown lasts this long, there are a few things beyond groceries that become essential.

Someone at work is defending their dissertation on Friday and the plan is to meet up to celebrate afterwards. Fortunately the organizers of the get-together picked a bar that has outdoor picnic areas, so we can stay socially distant while drinking and outside. It'll be my first time going out to a non-essential place (i.e. not a store) since the March. And, considering how everything is trending, probably my last time for awhile.

Was able to vent with my wife this am so I'm feeling better about life...amazing how much more distressing things are at 3am.

Also good news, it seems I don't have to quarantine.
My betters have determined we were sufficiently protected. I guess I got the new guy on the 1-800 number last night. Again

So do the drug companies think that their ever increasing claims of effectiveness of the vaccine are somehow reassuring? between the president's politizization of the vaccine and these marketing ploys the country just gets further and further from wanting to 'accept the science'. Personally I've always felt that if fauci says he's good to get one, I'll be game as well (and I like NY's approach of having a science committee to verify safety /efficacy in parallel with the feds). I'm also under no illusions about my ability to refuse a vaccine and keep my job either.

The Hill

More than a quarter-million Americans have died from complications of COVID-19, the disease caused by a coronavirus that is tearing massive holes in states across the nation, as health experts warn the death toll could double in the coming months.

NBC News reported the death toll crossed the 250,000 mark on Wednesday. Other counts maintained by Johns Hopkins University and The New York Times were slightly below that figure.

The United States continues to be the epicenter of the pandemic, accounting for a hugely disproportionate share of cases and deaths even as the virus begins spreading more widely in European countries.

...and yet schools in my part of 'Merica are closing down (going remote) while county government officials are passing regulations to try and allow businesses to ignore the governor's orders to close down early.

Once again, we're prioritizing businesses instead of focusing on children and schools. I already know how this story ends.

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Nov 18, 2020 7:47 pm ...and yet schools in my part of 'Merica are closing down (going remote) while county government officials are passing regulations to try and allow businesses to ignore the governor's orders to close down early.

Once again, we're prioritizing businesses instead of focusing on children and schools. I already know how this story ends.

Yeah, I think one can fairly debate the merits of schools being open vs. closed / remote, but I think it's pretty undeniable that keeping restaurants open while schools are closed is bonkers.

Even in (relatively) sane Massachusetts, when I'm out and about I see people eating indoors at restaurants. It's all been small groups, and the staff is universally masked, BUT...I really don't get the risk / reward on that.

The messaging is so screwy at this point it's no wonder that the public doesn't trust public health. They don't realize these seemingly ridiculous requirements ("bars must close by 10pm"; "Indoor dining must end at 8pm") is the government trying to figure out how to not pay businesses owners to stay closed by allowing them to stay open in a modified operational status. There is no rational answer as to why you can eat a hamburger indoors at your favorite restaurant with 25 other people, but schools can't have more than 10 kids in a classroom and they're now all going fully remote.

If we (government) just paid people to stay the F home, this would be so much better.

Meanwhile, in OHIO:

A recent Ohio wedding attended by 83 people has become the latest super-spreader event amid a nationwide surge in COVID-19 after nearly half of them tested positive for coronavirus, the newlywed couple said.

Among the 32 people to contract the virus were the couple, Anthony and Mikayla Bishop, and three of their grandparents, two of whom visited the emergency room, the Bishops said in an interview with NBC affiliate WLWT of Cincinnati.

“I didn't think that almost half of our wedding guests were gonna get sick,” Mikayla Bishop told the station. “You're in the moment. You're having fun. You don't think about COVID anymore."

You should have called me Mikayla. I've been thinking about it non-goddamn-stop since March.

When is outdoors not really outdoors? A lot places are just putting up beer hall style tents with sides and heaters. That seems a lot like indoors without a bathroom to me.

You're absolutely correct and they should not be permitted imho. Again, rather than paying businesses to stay closed we're apparently turning a blind eye in communities where they are setting up quasi-indoor environments outdoors to circumvent the indoor limitations they agreed to operate under.

Eventually there will be a cluster outbreak associated with an outdoor tent and everyone will look around and wonder how it happened.