COVID-19 treatment and vaccine update thread

Hrdina · Post by **Hrdina** » Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:56 pm

jztemple2 wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:11 pm I got my Moderna shot today. So far, four plus hours after the shot, no redness, swelling, soreness, rash, inability to pronounce "Worcestershire" correctly, nothing.

Did you ask whether you would be able to play the piano afterward?

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:21 am

Hrdina wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:56 pm
jztemple2 wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:11 pm I got my Moderna shot today. So far, four plus hours after the shot, no redness, swelling, soreness, rash, inability to pronounce "Worcestershire" correctly, nothing.
Did you ask whether you would be able to play the piano afterward?

No, but dammit, I'll get my wife to do that tomorrow if she's game

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:45 am

Speaking of second doses, I went to our friend the internet and did a little searching and found this article: WARNING: second dose of COVID-19 vaccine side effects can be severe. However, if you get past the click bait title and get to the meat of the article, it cites the empirical evidence of a single case, and then presents a couple of more useful charts from the FDA (I used the bigimg tag just in case):

What I get from those charts is that yes, regarding the second dose there is a slight chance that symptoms of fatigue, headache and muscle pain might be severe, but it is only a slight chance. You are in any case more likely to see symptoms after the second dose than after the first dose (with a nod to Lorini) and probably of more importance to myself and my wife, those over fifty-fify years of age are less likely to experience symptoms of side effects.

Ultimately I'm glad that if there are going to be severe side effects, they are coming after the second dose. If my wife experienced them after the first I might have some difficulty convincing her to get the second one

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:26 am

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:31 pm
stessier wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:24 pm I think I may as well. Really hoping so anyway.
Do you have any idea how we will be able to find out if we are eligible for the vaccine? Will we need a doctor's note if we have an underlying condition? I haven't really heard anything about how this is going to work.

They said on the news today that it was determined it would be too difficult to verify people are actually eligible and they don't want to disenfranchise people by requiring a doctor's note to document any severe illness, so the whole round is going to be on the Honor System.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:37 am

stessier wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:26 am
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:31 pm
stessier wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:24 pm I think I may as well. Really hoping so anyway.
Do you have any idea how we will be able to find out if we are eligible for the vaccine? Will we need a doctor's note if we have an underlying condition? I haven't really heard anything about how this is going to work.
They said on the news today that it was determined it would be too difficult to verify people are actually eligible and they don't want to disenfranchise people by requiring a doctor's note to document any severe illness, so the whole round is going to be on the Honor System.

Sweet. Fortunately for me, I have no honor.

But I think I might be actually eligible anyway

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:37 am

So what I gleaned from that sat above is that any time 10% of people have diarrhea in a 7 day period. Is that normal?

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:40 am

50+ with chronic high risk conditions may begin registration on Monday. Knowing the county and my health care system aren't even accepting open registrations for 65+ yet, I'm going to be calling CVS on Monday to at least figure out how to get in line. I'll have to register with Meijer is CVS can't accommodate. No idea what that means for timing, and I'm kinda hoping I don't get thrown in the J&J line but I'll have roadmap. This is a drastic change from the state website update from this past Monday. Also the new 50+ age thing is new. It used to be 80+, 65+, 18-64. I wonder what changed this week in age determination priority.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:41 am

malchior wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:37 am So what I gleaned from that sat above is that any time 10% of people have diarrhea in a 7 day period. Is that normal?

I could see that being normal, yes.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:49 am

I wonder what changed this week in age determination priority.

Might have gotten an influx of vaccine shipments.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:35 am

Hrdina wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:56 pm
jztemple2 wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 9:11 pm I got my Moderna shot today. So far, four plus hours after the shot, no redness, swelling, soreness, rash, inability to pronounce "Worcestershire" correctly, nothing.
Did you ask whether you would be able to play the piano afterward?

"Of course you can."

"Well I couldn't before!"

Post by **FishPants** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:39 am

How does it usually work stateside for vaccinations that aren't in the middle of a pandemic? Like if you got a flu shot, or you needed an MMR shot - do you get those at the pharmacy, and do they just charge you there?

Reason I am asking is if America is truly vaccinated by May (or at least those that want it) -- I'm wondering if it's going to be possible for me to drive or fly over the border and pay for it there for my family in Buffalo or Fort Erie.

Our PM is screwing the pooch hard, and if I can pay for it stateside without queue jumping Americans that are waiting for it - I'm down (just not down with the sickness). I'm not willing to wait until September'ish to get it if it's readily available an hour away stateside.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:54 am

FishPants wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:39 am How does it usually work stateside for vaccinations that aren't in the middle of a pandemic? Like if you got a flu shot, or you needed an MMR shot - do you get those at the pharmacy, and do they just charge you there?

Reason I am asking is if America is truly vaccinated by May (or at least those that want it) -- I'm wondering if it's going to be possible for me to drive or fly over the border and pay for it there for my family in Buffalo or Fort Erie.

Our PM is screwing the pooch hard, and if I can pay for it stateside without queue jumping Americans that are waiting for it - I'm down (just not down with the sickness). I'm not willing to wait until September'ish to get it if it's readily available an hour away stateside.

Yes, normally you can just pay for the shot (or insurance covers it).

But there is no way we are fully vaccinated by the end of May. There might be enough vaccine in inventory (whether at the state or federal level is open to question), but it's going to take a while to get that many distributed. September seems likely for it to be something anyone could just walk up and get without waiting.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:59 am

How does it usually work stateside for vaccinations that aren't in the middle of a pandemic? Like if you got a flu shot, or you needed an MMR shot - do you get those at the pharmacy, and do they just charge you there?

I get the flu shot at my pharmacy whenever I want and its free. Im not sure if its free for me or free for all. Ive seen some places want $10.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:02 am

FishPants wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:39 am How does it usually work stateside for vaccinations that aren't in the middle of a pandemic? Like if you got a flu shot, or you needed an MMR shot - do you get those at the pharmacy, and do they just charge you there?

For a flu shot, I get those for free from work.

For other shots, I get them from a doctor when needed. Insurance covers it, with a copay for the visit.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:02 am

FishPants wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 10:39 am How does it usually work stateside for vaccinations that aren't in the middle of a pandemic? Like if you got a flu shot, or you needed an MMR shot - do you get those at the pharmacy, and do they just charge you there?

Reason I am asking is if America is truly vaccinated by May (or at least those that want it) -- I'm wondering if it's going to be possible for me to drive or fly over the border and pay for it there for my family in Buffalo or Fort Erie.

Our PM is screwing the pooch hard, and if I can pay for it stateside without queue jumping Americans that are waiting for it - I'm down (just not down with the sickness). I'm not willing to wait until September'ish to get it if it's readily available an hour away stateside.

In Michigan, you can get a shot from a pharmacy but presumably it's all arranged at the insurer's end. You can also get it from your PCP.

Also we won't be be vaccinated by May. The claim is that production/supply will be available by the end of May for everyone to get a shot that wants one. Distribution and then vaccination still need to happen. That suggests to me, with J&J shelf life on the table and the two weeks between shots for the Moderna and Pfizer shots puts us in mid July to be "truly vaccinated." Of course, I'm still ecstatic at the middle of July estimate. Until this week, my mind was still on end of October.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:09 am

You can also get it from your PCP.

You get shots from angel dust?

Ive had people in their 60s flat out tell me they aren't getting a shot. Big Trump people. I told them even he got a vaccine shot....which he secretly did.. They just kinda mumbled and harrumphed and avoided it.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:10 am

The bigger chance now appears to be supply overrunning demand. If it does, I'd be more than fine shipping it north of the border. We're all in this together after all.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:10 am

Daehawk wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:09 am
You can also get it from your PCP.
You get shots from angel dust?

Primary Care Provider

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:12 am

malchior wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:10 am The bigger chance now appears to be supply overrunning demand. If it does, I'd be more than fine shipping it north of the border. We're all in this together after all.

I think that is the plan. Over order. Over produce. Take the excess and provide relief to other nations as is reasonable. R&P!!!! I endorse this plan and would have done so in October, the moment Pfizer had a candidate and laughed at the WARP Speed coordination they were informed they were part of.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:12 am

Ive never thought of my blood pressure as an underlying condition but from what Ive read it is. So maybe I can get in sooner than I first thought. 150/107 counts right?

I asked my doc if they could run a COVID antibody test on my blood since they were taking it. Said ya but i dont think they will. Said if I wanted a test by itself its still the nasal thing. I was only being nosy so passed. I was only wondering if Id been exposed over the year and didn't know it. I usually have sneezing and coughing in spring and fall but my fall stuff has lasted all winter. My temp was 99.3 too. But I was in a warm waiting room in a hot mask.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:16 am

I mean, if someone is really wound up about waiting their turn to get vaccinated, they can always just hop on a plane to the UAE and buy a shot there, right?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:33 am

stessier wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:41 am
malchior wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:37 am So what I gleaned from that sat above is that any time 10% of people have diarrhea in a 7 day period. Is that normal?
I could see that being normal, yes.

Taco Bell is a billion dollar business.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 12:05 pm

stessier wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:41 am
malchior wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:37 am So what I gleaned from that sat above is that any time 10% of people have diarrhea in a 7 day period. Is that normal?
I could see that being normal, yes.

I suspect that some people being given the placebo (and not knowing it) will psych themselves into all sorts of aliments.

As for me, twenty hours after my first dose of Moderna and zilch as far as side effects. Not a surprise, really, I get annual flu shots, have gotten the shingles vaccine, get a tetanus shot occasionally, and I've never experienced any problems. Now we will see what happens with my wife tonight....

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:37 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:33 am
stessier wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:41 am
malchior wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:37 am So what I gleaned from that sat above is that any time 10% of people have diarrhea in a 7 day period. Is that normal?
I could see that being normal, yes.
Taco Bell is a billion dollar business.

Certain medicines can, um, loosen things up. To the point where Slurpee, not Baby Ruth, is the norm.

Don't ask how I know this.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:48 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 11:33 am
stessier wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:41 am
malchior wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 9:37 am So what I gleaned from that sat above is that any time 10% of people have diarrhea in a 7 day period. Is that normal?
I could see that being normal, yes.
Taco Bell is a billion dollar business.

Off-topic, but one of our area Taco Bells, when I called to ask if they had dining-in yet, said that they didn't and they would never be going back to having inside dining. Now my wife and I happen to like Taco Bell, but she won't do takeout or even the drive-through since she likes their tacos but only wants them fresh from the kitchen to table. I gave the restaurant a one-star review on Google, stating my reasons. Perhaps that's unfair, but maybe if enough people register their feelings, we can reverse this poor decision of theirs.

Back on-topic, I'm still feeling good, although a bit fatigued. However, the fatigue might be do in part to doing a three mile walk this morning, then after lunch decorating the Xmas/Valentines/St Patricks tree

, changing out a toilet seat and cleaning the pool. I feel like John Wayne's character in True Grit.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:00 pm

My Taco Bell has dine in. I dont do drive through due to an unworking window on my car so I always have to go in. I skip places that dont allow me in to order even if I am taking it home. Last time I was in a couple weeks ago there were people in there eating too.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:10 pm

Daehawk wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:00 pm My Taco Bell has dine in. I dont do drive through due to an unworking window on my car so I always have to go in. I skip places that dont allow me in to order even if I am taking it home. Last time I was in a couple weeks ago there were people in there eating too.

Good to know that it isn't a nationwide decision. We'll just keep on asking at our local TBs to remind them.

The same thing is happening at our local Culvers. There are two in the county and neither has dining in, but over on the West Coast of Florida where we go periodically they all have dining in and have done so since last summer.

Meanwhile, Florida CVS stores say that they will administer the vaccine to all "K-12 teacher, daycare, preschool worker, and staff, with no age limit set". This is beyond what the Florida government has allowed (you have to be 50+) but is in line with the newly released Biden administration guidelines.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:55 pm

Daehawk wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 3:00 pm My Taco Bell has dine in. I dont do drive through due to an unworking window on my car so I always have to go in.

I have the same problem. If the weather's nice I can manually pull the window down (IE - grab the glass and pull), but I have to get out afterwards and work it back up to the closed position. That's only practical in a drive-thru during parts of the spring and fall.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 4:21 pm

some anecdotes of COVID-19 vaccines alleviating symptoms of 'covid long-haulers':

https://www.medpagetoday.com/special-re ... ives/91476

not sure how much of this is temporary or permanent, or if these were symptoms that were going to clear up on their own in that time frame anyways

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:30 pm

jztemple2 wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:48 pm Off-topic, but one of our area Taco Bells, when I called to ask if they had dining-in yet, said that they didn't and they would never be going back to having inside dining. Now my wife and I happen to like Taco Bell, but she won't do takeout or even the drive-through since she likes their tacos but only wants them fresh from the kitchen to table. I gave the restaurant a one-star review on Google, stating my reasons. Perhaps that's unfair, but maybe if enough people register their feelings, we can reverse this poor decision of theirs.

I'm sorry, I mean no offense and maybe I'm missing your point ("reverse this poor decision of theirs") , but reading this just really makes me cringe.

I mean, for starters, right now given COVID and where the country is at with it, I can't imagine thinking ones desires to eat indoors at Taco Bell outweigh the concerns that the franchise owner is making about limiting his business in order to safeguard his employees.

It's certainly your right to leave a poor review of this place because of this. I just think it sounds a bit more than just "unfair"; it reads as selfish and kinda odd to do (IMO).

To be bummed out that they do not have indoor dining right now, that is one thing, and to wish they would re-open, etc... but to take it to the level of 'protest', like you suggest - just seems like you live in a whole other world than me. You are giving a place a one-star review because they are being too safe, and too careful about COVID - this blows my mind. You hope other people pressure them to open (I guess you have made "the call" on the safety of doing that, for the owner and their employees??) - and if they don't you hope they are pushed into a one-star rating. That is sad as shit to me. Just really is.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:34 pm

Unagi wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:30 pm
jztemple2 wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:48 pm Off-topic, but one of our area Taco Bells, when I called to ask if they had dining-in yet, said that they didn't and they would never be going back to having inside dining. Now my wife and I happen to like Taco Bell, but she won't do takeout or even the drive-through since she likes their tacos but only wants them fresh from the kitchen to table. I gave the restaurant a one-star review on Google, stating my reasons. Perhaps that's unfair, but maybe if enough people register their feelings, we can reverse this poor decision of theirs.
I'm sorry, I mean no offense and maybe I'm missing your point ("reverse this poor decision of theirs") , but reading this just really makes me cringe.

I mean, for starters, right now given COVID and where the country is at with it, I can't imagine thinking ones desires to eat indoors at Taco Bell outweigh the concerns that the franchise owner is making about limiting his business in order to safeguard his employees.

It's certainly your right to leave a poor review of this place because of this. I just think it sound a bit more than just "unfair", it's selfish and odd to do (IMO).

To be bummed out that they do not have indoor dining right now, that is one thing, and to wish they would re-open, etc... but to take it to the level of 'protest', like you suggest - just seems like you live in a whole other world than me. You are giving a place a one-star review because they are being too safe, and too careful about COVID - this blows my mind. You hope other people pressure them to open (I guess you have made "the call" on the safety of doing that, for the owner and their employees??) - and if they don't you hope they are pushed into a one-star rating. That is sad as shit to me. Just really is.

For the record, I think he is talking about the "never going back to inside dining" part which changes the context.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:36 pm

/shrug
I mean... For one, I can't image that should be taken at face-value, and I image his review is about their current choice to remain closed... 'never' is a silly term here.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:44 pm

Pizza hut did it in most locations and they are under the same parent company so it isn't an outrageous idea.

hitbyambulance · Post by **hitbyambulance** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:49 pm

making a request to please keep procedural, political, cultural and meta COVID-19 discussion/tangents to the other threads created for those purposes

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:49 pm

Unagi wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:30 pm
jztemple2 wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:48 pm Off-topic, but one of our area Taco Bells, when I called to ask if they had dining-in yet, said that they didn't and they would never be going back to having inside dining. Now my wife and I happen to like Taco Bell, but she won't do takeout or even the drive-through since she likes their tacos but only wants them fresh from the kitchen to table. I gave the restaurant a one-star review on Google, stating my reasons. Perhaps that's unfair, but maybe if enough people register their feelings, we can reverse this poor decision of theirs.
I'm sorry, I mean no offense and maybe I'm missing your point ("reverse this poor decision of theirs") , but reading this just really makes me cringe.

I mean, for starters, right now given COVID and where the country is at with it, I can't imagine thinking ones desires to eat indoors at Taco Bell outweigh the concerns that the franchise owner is making about limiting his business in order to safeguard his employees.

It's certainly your right to leave a poor review of this place because of this. I just think it sounds a bit more than just "unfair"; it reads as selfish and kinda odd to do (IMO).

To be bummed out that they do not have indoor dining right now, that is one thing, and to wish they would re-open, etc... but to take it to the level of 'protest', like you suggest - just seems like you live in a whole other world than me. You are giving a place a one-star review because they are being too safe, and too careful about COVID - this blows my mind. You hope other people pressure them to open (I guess you have made "the call" on the safety of doing that, for the owner and their employees??) - and if they don't you hope they are pushed into a one-star rating. That is sad as shit to me. Just really is.

Maybe I wasn't clear. My review I posted for them wasn't about being safe or not, it was that they are planning, post-COVID, to not do indoor dining at all. I perfectly understand a decision to not have indoor dining during COVID, but the person I talked to said they were going to not do inside dining at all in the future.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:51 pm

Got my Covid vaccine today from the VA. Moderna I believe.
So far no pain or side effects.
Except that for some reason I find Smoove_B very interesting today.

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:51 pm

hitbyambulance wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:49 pm making a request to please keep procedural, political, cultural and meta COVID-19 discussion/tangents to the other threads created for those purposes

Sorry, understood, I was getting off-topic and should have started a new thread if I wanted to continue the discussion.

Will return to the regular subject after my wife gets her shot in a bit over an hour

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:02 pm

jztemple2 wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 6:49 pm
Unagi wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:30 pm
jztemple2 wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:48 pm Off-topic, but one of our area Taco Bells, when I called to ask if they had dining-in yet, said that they didn't and they would never be going back to having inside dining. Now my wife and I happen to like Taco Bell, but she won't do takeout or even the drive-through since she likes their tacos but only wants them fresh from the kitchen to table. I gave the restaurant a one-star review on Google, stating my reasons. Perhaps that's unfair, but maybe if enough people register their feelings, we can reverse this poor decision of theirs.
I'm sorry, I mean no offense and maybe I'm missing your point ("reverse this poor decision of theirs") , but reading this just really makes me cringe.

I mean, for starters, right now given COVID and where the country is at with it, I can't imagine thinking ones desires to eat indoors at Taco Bell outweigh the concerns that the franchise owner is making about limiting his business in order to safeguard his employees.

It's certainly your right to leave a poor review of this place because of this. I just think it sounds a bit more than just "unfair"; it reads as selfish and kinda odd to do (IMO).

To be bummed out that they do not have indoor dining right now, that is one thing, and to wish they would re-open, etc... but to take it to the level of 'protest', like you suggest - just seems like you live in a whole other world than me. You are giving a place a one-star review because they are being too safe, and too careful about COVID - this blows my mind. You hope other people pressure them to open (I guess you have made "the call" on the safety of doing that, for the owner and their employees??) - and if they don't you hope they are pushed into a one-star rating. That is sad as shit to me. Just really is.
Maybe I wasn't clear. My review I posted for them wasn't about being safe or not, it was that they are planning, post-COVID, to not do indoor dining at all. I perfectly understand a decision to not have indoor dining during COVID, but the person I talked to said they were going to not do inside dining at all in the future.

And do you have any idea who it is you talked to?
Would they be in a position to know that?

And honestly, even so, that’s their call, right ?

At best, this is like reviewing a restaurant with one-star, because they were not open on Mondays and that’s your preferred night to eat out. At best. But this choice is about you thinking they should feel less concerned about COVID.

I dont think it’s right to pressure a business this way. It’s hard enough for them to make these choices let alone weather a one-star rating too. Hey , I mean.... Perhaps they will just close. I suppose that’s your goal, should they refuse to re-open. Right ?

Sorry. I shouldn’t keep saying ‘refuse to open’. You just demand that they commit to re-open.

All based on a phone-call to the person who answers the phone at Taco Bell.

/shrug. Just seems petty, maybe that’s what I’ll leave it at.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:03 pm

hitbyambulance wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:49 pm making a request to please keep procedural, political, cultural and meta COVID-19 discussion/tangents to the other threads created for those purposes

Oops. Sorry. I’ll drop it too.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:18 pm

You kept saying covid ....but I think he was stating it as they were planning to stay that way forever. Probably making money and not having to deal with people inside....no cleaning to do, maybe insurance is cheaper, wont need to build that space in the future. That was my take.

If I liked a place and they decided to change for the worse in my eyes Id rate them worse as well. If it was food that had changed I wouldn't care if the place serving it thought it was the best or that other people thought it was the best Id still rate if poorly if I didn't like the change.

Fine .